…left-wing like Hillary or Obama

Hillary and Obama are liberals, not leftists
Leftism isn't liberalism, leftism is against capitalism while liberals, like Hillary, seek to maximi-
Every fucking day. It feels like it's every fucking day with everyone I meet either on the internet or offline I have this exact conversation. By the time I get through trying to explain in a non-TRIGGERED sounding (aka speaking like one would to a toddler) way everyone suddenly "doesn't want to talk about politics anymore."

Most liberals tend to be disillusioned leftists that grew out of whatever flavour of socialism was popular in their university days, and in general are much more sympathetic to leftists and leftist thought than leftists are willing to admit (see: FDR and Stalin)

Don't talk about capitalism directly, that's a good way to get the morons to ignore you. Just say liberals think our economic system is fine and the problems are caused by people being racist, sexist, or greedy.
Leftists think that the problems in today's society come from the problems with our economic system. It puts profits ahead of people, so it's destructive to communities, families, and the environment.

That usually shuts people up without going down the theory rabbit hole that they're just going to tune out.

YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER
WHAT HAVE YOU BROUGHT UPON THIS THREAD?

Liberalism with socialist aesthetics?

was

It's because in the United States the political dialogue has been so watered down and made into such a farce that people like the ones you mentioned get a high from being able to preemptively shut down "the Left" (see liberals) which they perceive as being the establishment since liberals have had a President in office for 8 years and for the last several decades have essentially run Hollywood and other big aspects of the media and fed the country a Liberal ideology (which for them is literally the same thing that happened in the USSR and if they are even more ignorant, nazi germany)

That's why when you start bring up how leftism and liberalism aren't the same thing and pointing out that leftists are critical of capitalism etc they just shut down and tell you to stop talking about it because they can't experience their jouissance from "owning" a "triggered Leftist" anymore and if they continue will be forced to admit they are ignorant.

It's fucking discouraging as hell

You have to understand that for most people in the US the political spectrum runs from Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump.

stalin is literally just a socdem extremist. nothing more, nothing less

ah yes, the 'crazy' feminists

Say that shitty meme to my face fucker

this is false though. Stalin's system lacked the market and production for exchange that the later Soviet systems implemented. The entire 'state capitalism' (and therefore the socdem argument too) argument stems from the fact that, post Stalin, the Soviet Union utilized production for exchange and worse.

Marxist Feminism isn't a thing. Marxist-Leninist Russia had equal gender rights since day 1, feminism dies with the presence of leftism.

Even if you allow for the concept of "left-leaning liberals and or a grey area between succdems and "progressives," Hillary has all the same positions as Dick Cheney and he was supposed to be Satan to "liberals" when I was growing up. Obama isn't very far from her on most of that stuff. I wouldn't even call them "centrists" they are right wing except on a few token identity issues and even judging them on those they still come off as archaic and milquetoast.

That's the entire idea of Marxist-Feminism, this is such a non-statement.

Or do you just like to spout things into the ether to make yourself feel better.

If you call Obama or Hillary right wing most Americans' heads will explode.

No

I thought you wanted women to have their freedoms? I guess not :^)

I hate that fucking shit so goddamn much

Yeah I know I'm American, but I have found that more and more people are amenable to seeing their right wing nature if you can pin them to past right wing devils.

On the same note I cant wait to leave this country for good. The amount of idiocy and misinformation you have to wade through to start talking about real issues is tiring and I'm sick of it.

I don't think anime girls have their own will. Commodification of sexuality is a result of capitalism and will end under socialism, women's liberation can't be achieved without it.

Same. Where are you planning on going after you leave? I was thinking about Britain if Corbyn manages to seize control.

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I know French, so probably a country that speaks that like France. Hopefully no one like Le Pen will win and close the doors until I immigrate my ass over.

I have been to Ireland and the UK before and I just didn't find them sufficiently different enough to be exciting or worth it, but I wish Corbyn the best of luck.

Beyond what currently sucks about America, I think it is going to be harder to live here when climate change really starts taking effect and when oil and water scarcity start hitting us hard in the pocket. Euro cities were designed around walking so they have a better chance of wading through the worst of it on that alone. So much of America is shit that it is far as fuck away from everything else and it's too damn car reliant.

Yeah France might be good. I hear they have the best strikers rights out of many western countries, which is good for socialism

a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down

No, it doesn't. Read Dauve.

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The workers didn't own the means of production under Stalin though.

This is why there needs to be the equivalent of a Paris Commune built somewhere in America. An actual movement which seizes a small city and implements a democratic, municipal socialist system would give you something to point to as an example to jolt people out of the retardation of mainstream bourgeois politics.

shut up retard

They were never leftists to begin to with. They have no understanding of socialism as anything more than "socialism is when the government does stuff".

Yeah I sort of agree. The overton window was moved to the right for a pretty long while.

someone said bolivia is a socialist country today here so I can understand why so many are confused

He means that adding "-feminism" to marxism doesnt add anything, because marxism is inherently already encompassing those ideas. Marxism and Marxist-Feminism are the same, so theres no reason to add it unless you want to purposefully give labels to virtue signal or drive people away.

Its useful from the other angle. In Marxist circles the feminist label is redundant, but in Feminist circles, this kind of thought has to be specified as Marxist-Feminism.

whatever, but Hillary was always right wing. She supported Barry Goldwater for fucks sakes. Anybody claiming that Hillary is even remotely resembling somethings that's left wing needs to be purged asap.

And despite all the scorn from Holla Forums "liberals" (aka anyone to the right of Stalin) have been historically close to the "real" Left. "Liberals" argued that a popular front with the USSR and Marxist parties were the only hope against fascism, and it was "liberal" journalists, intellectuals etc that had the most effusive praise for Lenin/Stalin/Mao's regimes