Does anyone else here think that it would have been an absolute disaster if anyone but Trump won the US election? I mean, Trump and Republicans are obviously shit but it would have been even worse if Clinton won and if Sanders won.
Think about it
I mean, would any of this have been better than what's happening under Trump regarding civil disobedience and so on? I literally had the most apolitical liberal friend of mine ask me the other day what I thought about Lenin and saying the entry-level "Lenin was a good thinker he just couldn't get his ideas enacted' turn of phrase. Many of my friends have asked me for info on anarchism and so on. I really don't see this happening under Clinton or even Sanders at all. I think the accelerationists got it right on this one
Sanders might have worked, but it would take some political maneuvering. Hillary would be catastrophic, it'd strengthen both neoliberals and the far right.
Easton Peterson
The thing is that the Republicans, specifically the worst of the worst that are now in congress, would still have been in congress because of Koch bros shenanigans and gerrymandering. The Koch network has manipulated local politics to where conservatives and reactionaries will have a majority both in congress and even in tiny little city councils and so on for the forseeable future. Similar elements in the Dem party, and the Kochs themselves to some degree, have made it so that the majority of Dems in congress will be neoliberal or neoliberal sympathetic.
Sanders probably would have gotten even less accomplished than Obama
Jonathan Harris
Sanders could still rabble rally, veto everything, raise up a new crop of leftist politicians, and rape the DNC into submission in time for the midterms (it might have even been possible to coup many centrist Democrats in statewide races, during the interval between winning the Democratic primaries, and the general election).
I mean, look at Corbyn in the UK. He's had essentially every member of his own party, at every level, every moment since he assumed leadership, slandering, undermining, and attempting to coup him. In spite of this, he is firmly in command of the electorate's hearts and minds, and "purge" is on everyone's lips.
I am confident Sanders, especially with a direct victory against Clinton and then Trump, could have used the bully pulpit to seize the zeitgeist in a wave of populism.
No question either of these would've been a disastrous return to the antipopulist status quo. Like Occupy collapsing times a thousand.
James Butler
The hope is that Trump and the people in government who support him are so laughable that they fuck up opinion of their party for a while. These fucking faggot GOP members keep memeing themselves into office with endless idpol and social issue misdirection and I want that to be diminished for a while
But the fact of the matter remains that it doesn't mean shit if socialism doesn't gain a beachhead in the american voting public Is the best way to do that individual leftists spreading class consciousness to their friends, peers, and conversation partners? Are we all doing good work by talking reasonably about class and labor to people we know?
Or is the most likely plan to succeed involving a populist candidate that manages to sway liberals away from their idpol and establishment economic ideas? To, as said, "seize the zeitgeist"?
I don't know, man, I'm pretty new to Holla Forums and actual socialist theory, I just want there to be radical change from the status quo. Is there any hope, guys?
Sebastian Green
I know I'd probably not be a Leftist. Boyfriend was former social democrat who radicalized me
William Morales
Actually the hope is that the far more awful Democratic party and GOP neocons gets wiped out by how awful they are and humiliating all their autistic screeching has become and then a new front opens up in electoral politics where Trump's phony populism is challenged by a real populist movement from the left with no movement destroying DNC in the way.
Connor Collins
Dohohoho, don't make me laugh anymore than I already am. Too bad Le Penn didnt win in France, but Brexit and Trump were certifiably Populist. You don't have the entire MSM saying "It doesn't matter lol Hillary is gonna win by a double digit margin" for a year and then lose and say it's not populist. States flipped you mongoloid. Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, all SHOULD HAVE been won by Clinton, but here we are.
Landon Brown
Hi Holla Forums
Luis Robinson
You know it
Thomas Ross
Remember to use the phrase "best cheater" when describing American presidential elections. It's very important. Trump didn't "win" anything.
Brandon Cook
lmao that they're like the final boss of the Left when practically every other famous billionaire supports the Dems
Evan Stewart
Did you just conflate the Democrats with the Left? How quaint.
Gabriel Wood
I think the other poster wasn't talking about the authenticity of support for Trump, but the political authenticity of Trump himself (insofar as Trump's schizophrenic agenda, even during and before the election, can be evaluated for authenticity). Bernie's track record is exceedingly consistent, so I feel confidant that he would back up his rhetoric with action if he won the presidency.
This always, always gets me. Whenever people object that "b'b'b'but Drumpf only won the EC, Clinton (barely) won the popular vote!", I'm amazed these people don't remember: 1. Clinton wasn't campaigning with the popular vote in mind, thus her strategy of neglecting "safe states" (that Trump specifically attacked and flipped) in order to concentrate on "swing states". Both aimed for the same target, Trump was the better strategist. 2. 45% of the population didn't vote at all. 3. Of those who voted, our FPtP system (especially during the primaries) ensured almost no votes were sincere, pic related.
no, and back to Holla Forums, cuckistani shitposter
Parker Anderson
I doubt this for the simple reason that Bernie would actually fight at least on some issues and he would be harder to ignore as the president than he is now. I don't think he'd a perfect savior but if Obama had pushed at all on some certain issues he could have done more but he wouldn't even fight for things he was entitled too like a supreme court pick which just showed him to either be inept and weak or complicit with the republicans.
Noah Campbell
I'm not even referencing that electoral college bullshit. I'm talking about election fraud and voter suppression. Trump "won" because the Republicans have built a very slick voter suppression machine over the last several years. And Trump appointed one of its masterminds to "investigate" voter fraud a couple months ago.
He was a better cheater than Hillary, who was herself a recipient of election fraud and targeted voter suppression of Sanders supporters in the primary. That's all. We have a bigger problem than electoral college, than even Duverger's Law. The Voting Rights Act has been gutted and Americans are using 10+-year-old electronic voting machines manufactured (except when they're discontinued) by an industry that has consolidated to just two corporations. In many states without even a voter-verified paper trail.
Evan Carter
Merrick Garland was just another cocksucker who thought corporate money should be protected under free speech. Obama was controlled opposition.
Jackson Ortiz
I'd also like to further add that this was a prevailing problem with Hillaries' campaign, she was trying to sell defeatism as pragmatism and gave every indication that she wouldn't fight republicans on anything and that Bernie was idealistic to even care to try. This was what was really sad and funny to me about her campaign was she acted like eight years of Obama's constant concessions and reasonableness was the correct way to deal with Republicans, Bernie was actually less idealistic in this sense in that he wanted to fight them issue by issue.
My point is not that his pick was good or that we should be sad he wasn't chosen but that Obama didn't try to fight for anything in his presidency even on things that were within his power and abilities he never pushed back ever except on the shitty healthcare bill and he pushed back against the left as hard as he did with republicans on that to the point that he primarried Dennis Kucinich.
Ryder Ortiz
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Hunter Perry
Wow he conceded the mic to some black girls one time so he wouldn't be called a racist non stop for the rest of his life, what a loser!
Was he supposed to start yelling racial slurs and asking for security?
Aiden Long
I apologise, Democrats for all their failures actually manage to do things, as opposed to fantasising about the day the proles they otherwise despise will overthrow the system and usher in the inevitable glorious socialist utopia
Benjamin Ramirez
Great things, such as repeal the Glass-Steagal Act and pass bills from the Heritage Foundation.
Daniel Gomez
Bernie spent practically the entire primary trying to take the moral high ground even as the DNC blatantly fucked him over time and time again. If he couldn't even fight to get himself into the Democrat nomination, how the hell would anyone expect him to fight against a system viciously opposed to even the slightest reform?
Still more than TRUE Leftists have managed to achieve in the US, unless you count ironybro snark about how "like, they're all corporate shills anyway man, you can't do anything bruh *does a massive bong hit*"
Gavin Hill
I think if he had focused on the DNC's unfair influence peddling and in some cases probably blatant cheating his whole campaign would have to be about that alone and a lot of what else he was trying to accomplish would have went by the way side as a result.
I think Bernie could have cultivated a a bit of Trumpean arrogance and at least stated broadly the unfair treatment of himself and other DNC candidates more but I can see why he didn't want this to become a sole focus of his campaign.
I remember Julian Assange announcing that he had dirt on the DNC months before he released it and I'll always wonder why the fuck he didn't release it during the primaries when it might have made a difference and if Bernie would have actually acknowledged it had it came out earlier and he had clear evidence and documents to talk about.
Mason Green
Wikileaks has stated before that they don't leak when it's politically convenient or most impactful, but as soon as they can after getting the material. I think I remember them even saying last year that more would have been accomplished if the DNC leaker had come to them sooner.
Robert Jones
Trump did lose the election. Once again the majority vote lost to the minority for the second time in less than 20 years.
Don't even get me stated that barely half of eligible voters vote in any election.
The question you have to ask is not what it would be like if Trump had lost. But can you imagine a burgerland that has something even tangentially approaching democracy.
Aiden Hall
Hello reddit
Jaxson Ross
I agree, if not for that sexist electoral college, based Hillary would win over that racist sexist Flumpf
Dominic Perez
Brexit was to a large degree phony. Newspapers were overwhelmingly supportive of Brexit when you factor in circulation. (And why wouldn't they be? They've been laying the groundwork for years.)
And I say this as someone who thinks Britain joining the EU was always a mistake.
Brody White
Everyone in this thread whose answer wasn't "Voting doesn't do shit" need to go back to reddit immediately
Ryan Bailey
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Aiden Reyes
It would be terrible, the right probably would've chim.ped out and the media would be sycophantically praising Hillary constantly. At least Trump is funny.
