ITT:

wai not

Historical tension and basic biology. Prussians aren't even human.

Honestly man, it's hard.

Any kind of ethnonationalism is based on the notion that one's race is inherently superior. Yet when presented with facts and reason, nationalists tend to cloister themselves and resort to name-calling. ffs I once saw some dumbass citing ugly black people as a reason why they're inferior. And the entire board was like "Oh wow, an ugly person! Never seen one of those before!"

They're riddled with anxieties, and thus don't abide by logic. The question arises as to whether they're worth debating in the first place.

The Bavarian has a gland evolved specifically for excreting evil.

Well, no one is arguing for some globalist white nationalist mega state, just for every nation to have their "main race" as the majority.

Ie whites for america, and asians for china

...

What is the main race in the UK?

huwite

Which kind, Scottish, Welsh, British, or Irish?

uhhhh

idk

just like cut it up into regions or something

Well there you go. Unless you're an American with basically negligible history, whites of different nations have relatively little in common and get no benefit from sweating fealty to an insane amalgamation of ethnicity.

I refuse to offer you my advices of the arguments to you against the white and ethno-nationalists. The whole things about alternative-right is a total joke so we need to deprive the oxygen out of their lungs is by not adding the woods to the bonfire. The retarded alt-right men need to be gulaged and the traitorous women will be used as the surrogate Birthers in the infant factory for the future infertile heterosexual parents.

What if you were to keep the sovereignty of nations, but keep them their majority race,

The Scottish, Welsh, Irish, And Brits don't have to coexist, they'll just be white.

What makes that any different from nationalism?

it's homogeneous

Nationalism isn't? What reason is there to give citizenship to foreigners?

A white nationalist would argue that (x country should be pure white)

with no miscegenation, or any multiculturalism

A nationalist would argue any foreigner, no matter the skin color, does not belong. Ireland for the Irish, not the British, Scottish, Welsh, Manx, French, German, Swede, etc

So what's your arguement against that?

it causes people to faggot up imageboards with shit threads

Against what? Ireland for all whites? Well it's just multiculturalism backed up by pseudoscience. Indian culture of Dutch culture, still shit no matter the color.

I think i'm a communist now

Show 'em this

...

I think the final argument to btfo the far right is that no economic policy will bring back the post-WWII living standards in the west. Capitalism has run its course and I think fascist sympathizers know this deep down

Depends how you define "modernity."
Yes, but it comes at the cost of having a non capitalist system.

Good thing they also generally support ethnostates which separate subraces of whites.

Not necessarily. It's predicated on the notion that their race is worth preserving.

You're going to need to demonstrate that in order to be convincing.

Don't cite Stirner, read him! Keep questioning the fundamentals of their beliefs, make the concept of race look silly from the start. If we oppose them on the basis that race is silly, then we should remain true to that and work through our own beliefs and how we got to them to derive a general method of how to argue against views outside it while potentially developing our own. This can also be applied to arguments with rival leftist sects here, and everyone would benefit if they thought more in terms of it.

No, it doesn't. Marx outright celebrates the achievements of capitalism while wanting to dialectically supersede it.
This is all you need. Absent alienation, culture will reform itself again spontaneously under free communism. IMO, it doesn't matter what the culture is so long as there is one.

Land's works are a scary, vivid imagination which could lend insight into how it hasn't. Marx never spoke of capitalism "running its course" - neither did Proudhon. No one has done this, except for maybe theoryless nitwits like Lasalle.

Elaborate?
What, in your view, makes the concept of race "silly?"

It is true. The thing is fascists know modern capitalism is in crisis and want a "cultural revolution" to reaffirm its position. The nuclear family, all white neighborhoods, traditional gender roles, etc. are all a part of this bizarre rain dance these people do. They think that if they can replicate the social realities of the past, they can bring back the economic conditions.

how so?
btw modernity started with the enlightenment, not with WW1.

the far-right are not fond of egalitarian,democratic "enlightened humanism" and its fruits.

the concept of race points to an objective reality in the world, even if the concept itself gets fuzzy at times. just like the concept of "chair" points to an objective reality, even if it gets fuzzy at times.

That's an interesting anthropological perpective actually.

they think there's more to life than economics and that traditional family units, traditional gender roles are healthy expressions of who we are, they are good in themselves, and have provided an adequate amount of social stability for thousands of years.
And racially/culturally homogeneous towns are more conducive to social harmony than atomized/diversified melting pots.

...

nyu.edu/steinhardt/e/pdf/humsocsci/mias/readings07/34.pdf

How deep does it go?

It's worse than Racism, and racism is awful

I don't really have the capacity to form a counter-argument to the alt right, but I do notice them mentioning "The Alternative Hypothesis" a lot.
Sorry, Holla Forums. If you can't formulate a valid rebuttal to that, then I have to assume the Alt Right are correct regarding HBD and race realism. You can't just say MUH SPOOKS because they've already demonstrated to some extent how race is real.

This is exactly it. Fascism is basically a reverse of Marxism, its core is the externalization of economic problems into a foreign, corruptive Other. Social conflict isn't a result of structural, internal conditions, but exists only because of this foreign element which has destroyed the harmonius, class-collaborationist stability. Holla Forumsacks seem to genuinely believe that when they eliminate the Jew/Non-white they will achieve some pre-existing economic stability and traditional culture, which is the primary reason they're fucking retards and mega idealists.

But can't declining economic conditions be correlated with the influx of certain demographics?
Besides, economics are irrelevent in the garden variety fascist. Like said…

Nazism throws people like the alt-right in labour camps for being to fat and autistic to save.

It might work on paper, but in practice it comes in conflict with human nature.

Unironically this, white nationalism doesn't remove the cause of conflict, people are perfectly capable of hating each other on regional grounds once they have ethnical homogenuity.

The nazi is right about the alt-right. It's a joke and the alt-rightards are only doing this to save their life.

economics aren't irrelevant, they are just subordinate to higher values like the family unit, religion, tradition, social harmony/moral order, etc.

ethnic nationalism isn't sufficient, it's just part of the equation. I'm not a total purist myself, I think we could have some immigration/diversity as long as it's done for practical purposes not just the sake of "muh diversity" and as long as its kept to a small, percentage, below 6%,

Asians are not all Chinese you subhuman right wing cuckold

you love our lingo don't u

History.

Dubs post the truth

pic related

Ok let's have another major world war, this time with nukes, just to prove you wrong on an irrelevant imageboard!

So what does this ideal "socially harmonious" society look like, then? Like take me through an average day in a white identitarian traditionalist land. Are there mandatory western art appreciation sessions (seeing as you faggots love those antiquarian statues so much) and enforced traditional maypole dancing for kids?

stopped reading

The core thought of ethnat that's justifiable and not just racism is that multiculturalism (having different and largely separated peoples sharing the same polity) leads to disaster; social bonds are undermined, politics becomes tribal warfare ala Northern Ireland instead of actual rational discussion about preferred policies, and people gradually just cease to trust each other, causing society to degenerate into frigid individualism under constant total surveillance. The thing is, though, the only thing they ever talk about is the need of stopping immigration. Even if immigration stopped, multiculturalism would still exist. In order to get rid of it, you'd need either assimilation (which would require giving a lot more attention and resources to the new minorities so as to condition them into thinking they're the same as the dominant culture) or genocide. Ethnats never talk about the former, though.

Why is this a bad thing? If capitalism is disrupting the ability of harmonious ethnic communities from forming why wouldn't you want to get rid of it?

Dialectics works through negation fam, superseding modernity entails negating it.

The enlightenment provided the logical basis on which capitalism grew. Marx was fairly hostile to the ideas of many enlightenment thinkers tbh, and there's plenty of anti-humanist Marxists who really pick up on this aspect of Marx's work.

More evidence that Holla Forums doesn't read.

It has a different implication when leftists use the word 'cuckold'. The left took it and gave it a psychoanalytic flair, and as a result it's way funnier when we use it.

The greatest mistake of the common man's analysis of history is the notion of Hitler as a pied piper who seduced the German people and destroyed their country. On the contrary, Hitler and his ideology were the ultimate expression of everything German. Inside the heart of every individual belonging to the so called Germanic race is a ruthless, paranoid, insecure, self pitying totalitarian pervert whose means of compensating is projecting the collective insecurities of his people onto whatever the supposed "other" was convenient for him at the time, in this case the Jews. The German ideology is not positive. It does not build, but only seeks to destroy. What these barbarians do not understand is that if they had their way and all the "degenerates" were gone they would be left to themselves. These sorry excuses for human beings would be cold, afraid, empty inside, and have no one to blame. Truly a horrifying fate.

Not sure you're getting the whole 'materialism' thing buck-o

Spooks

define this for me
why would you want a state

There aren't any. A world without whites is a world without future. Everything that exists piggybacks off of the accomplishments of white people.

Shut up Hans, before I resurrect Arthur "make a BBQ out of Berlin" Harris and really fuck you over like you deserve

wat

Nobody here wants a world without whites, that's silly.

cringe.

t. Adolf
you will lose the war again, no matter how hard you try because Germans are children.

nation does not mean state

I feel we Holla Forumslacks are right about women.

based whites created cars and sexual reassignment surgery so they could drive their gay tranny 10 year old to mcdonalds, another white creation, after xe opened up about xer sexual identity on that white dyke Ellen's talk show

based whites!!

Nice spooks faggot.

Jews. It's literally a Jewish psyop with roots in the Weimar days.

Jews have been trying to mutilate genitals of the goyim since the 1920s. Think about that. Circumcisions just aren't enough!

Women seeking out chads is a result of the hypercompetative environment that capitalism creates fam

Hypergamy is the sin for which they must pay for - with their lives. Death to femalekind.

HYBRID VIGOUR

Good luck finding a bone marrow donor.

What is out breeding depression?

I don't want to replace white people with light skinned black people.

This is dumb because:
1) They're a product of the culture they're in. Mating with many rich, successful, and attractive men is a successful mating strategy in our society, you can't blame them for listening to their biology.
2) There's a large number of women that don't engage in hypergamy
3) The women that do this can and will be rehabilitated once society changes course. Norms will change.

White people were a mistake.

>>>/liberalpol/

Depends on the individual.

wow, i never thought of it that way. you sure convinced me, bud.

yeah… see how well that goes over…

it removes a cause of conflict. nobody thinks all the problems of the world will be solved by a homogeneous society. that's why they support economic reforms as well

They'll say the same about socialism
guess what white nationalists think about the failures of their ideologies.

or you can demonstrate it with an argument.

similar to the way modern schools push the diversity meme, a fascist school would push the national/ethnic pride meme

then it should be regulated.

a subclassification of the human species with genes consistent to those of european natives.

chads are the strong right hand of the white race. women SHOULD prefer them. However, it is the social conditions which promote promiscuity.

Wow, I never thought of it that way…
If only someone had thought of market regulations to reduce the negative effects of capitalism before you, maybe we'd live in a utopia today…
Holy shit, so basically you think that we can solve all of the cultural disharmonies in society just by reformism and spreading ethnic pride propaganda? You do realize that the way society is structured politically and economically has a huge effect on the way that the culture in that society operates, right? You literally sound just like a liberal right now, except you like ethnic nationalism instead of diversity.

I'm not denying that market regulations are an old and historically effective idea. In fact, the kinds of regulations necessary are actually a point of contention on Holla Forums. Set foot in one of the automation threads and it will be clear as day. Fascists argue until they're blue in the face about the topic.
no, fascism is not utopian, though it may seem as such at times. Problem will always exist in any system.The idea is to mitigate them as much as feasibly possible.
Yes, that's the point. We want a political/economic structure which encourages meritocracy on the individual level and ethnic pride on the collective level.

That's the thing, capitalism is inherently anti-meritocratic because it values people who have access to capital, regardless of what their skill-level is. People will always be inherently unequal because different people are good at different things, but under capitalism people aren't able to compete on the basis of their abilities because most people don't have access to the resources they'd need to take advantage of their abilities. Capitalism doesn't let most people receive sufficient education or time to improve themselves and only lets a tiny minority of elites actually realize their potential. And even if you do manage to realize your potential and make it to the top you'll still end up having Porky Jr. or Shecklesberg bossing you around regardless of what their abilities are.

Well with first generation capitalism, you gain capital through your merits. Though this is a legitimate problem once the second generation comes around. The answer to this varies on the individual you talk to. We could discuss this further but don't think it representative of the fascist ideology as a whole.
But they can work for those who do. Ideally, owning the means of production means you take the biggest share of the profits, but take on the largest share of the risk. This is why I personally oppose the concept of the corporation as the corporate structure dilutes the risk among a large group of wealthy people to the extent where there essentially is none. A private company owned by one person or a small group of people necessitates that the business stay afloat or the livelihood of the stakeholders is at risk.
I believe that we should increase the quality of basic education and increase the opportunity for people to specialize at the high school level. Many high schools already have career oriented classes (I personally took classes in image editing, computer animation, woodworking and metal working in high school) but we should further encourage more schools to have such programs and the students to take them. I don't support free higher education but state subsidization is easily within the realm of reason.
Now this gets to the fundamental nature of such hierarchies. It only takes one person to formulate an end goal but many people to realize it. Big picture oriented people should hold the reins to direct the detail oriented. That's how shit gets done. Those in a position at the head of a company specialize in resource management and long term planning. They should do what they do best while those with the skills required to attain their goals are payed to do so.

Marx said, "To each according to his ability and need", and I think that's the fundamental model of what a society should strive for achieving don't you? You end up harming yourself and countless others in the future if you support anything short of it.

Even if you were a wage laborer that saved up the money you "earned" to start your business, all that money is to product of someone else somewhere else. If you take a loan, then ditto. That's aside from the context of whatever business you are starting and where. Merit is hardly a factor at all.

Yeah, this is a problem, and after each successive generation it gets worse. Would the solution these classes naturally forming be some kind of redistributionary policies? Because if those policies end up getting rid of the class structure to some degree I'd consider that to be socialism. If it doesn't then I don't think you've really fixed this problem. I'm really interested to hear what you think, I don't often see many fascists be as civil towards leftists as you're being.
Imo corporations are a natural result of class formation. You can't really avoid it without severely limiting what people can do in the market (i.e. muh privilege co-ops and other market-socialist policies).
Yeah, but usually the people at the top under capitalism are incompetent when it comes to anything other than enriching themselves. They'd rather make money than keep their business afloat, which is fucked up,

democracynature.org/vol2/bookchin_nationalism.htm

It's based on the naive and baseless assumption that people of the same race will always act in one another's self-interest and will never try to exploit one another, despite the entirety of recorded history saying otherwise. Most white nationalists struggle to define who even qualifies as "white" anyways, just look at the fate of /nambia/.

Besides that aut-right fags are just burgers doing a shoddy imitation of the "nouvelle droite" movement in France by combining everything from monarchists to ancaps to serve establishment politics.

tl;dr humans vs orcs is literal fantasy

What do you actually have in common with other "white" people who you've never met and probably never will? Are Georgians white? Are the Ainu white? By that criterion, Jews and Arabs are commonly considered white. Is it just Indo-Europeans? Well, Finns are Finno-Ugric and Russians are Indo-Europeans, and nevertheless the Nazis considered the former part of the "Nordic" race and the Slavs inferior sub-humans. Whiteness was, for your Nazi idols, a skin-deep (pun not intended) justification for carrying out Machiavellian day-to-day state actions in the name of self-preservation and expansion. Most people considered "white" have more genetics in common with the people of northern India than they do with Finns or Georgians. "Whiteness" will always be a nebulous concept to describe "not-colored", that is, "not a member of countries from which it is okay to extract resources". on a separate note, it is just as bad to argue for the supremacy of "oppressed people" and "oppressed nation" because it ignores the root cause of all of these antagonisms, which is the material relations constituting capitalism.
Those are the origins. As for you, it's little more than an external idea foisted upon you, to be identified with your own self-interest and cover up what bodies are truly in opposition to your self-interest. It's a messaging system to control useful idiots in the same way that Soviet and post-Soviet states need only to whisper "anti-imperialism" to elicit a Pavlovian drooling and complete subservience from tankies.

There's nothing particularly "obvious" about race to me. It all seems extremely fuzzy, in fact. It's an idea, an abstraction in itself. It's hardly the same as a chair still being a chair if a chip breaks off it or an apple still being an apple if a couple molecules rot away.

Good post.

This betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject. Modernity would have been impossible without the Enlightenment, but modernity itself is generally recognized as having its roots in the final decades of the 19th century and reached a bloom in the 1920s or so. It's when the world began to develop many of the characteristics seen to this day, such as that of police-state empires, large corporations independently carrying out what states used to via state-owned corporations during mercantilism, the spectacle, etc.

lmao, no wonder he doesnt give a shit about the concept of a nation or nationstate and doesnt even bother to mention Israel except as a nuclear power.

I would prefer "all things to those with the capacity to obtain them."
I do support a safety net for those hitting hard times, but that should consist of work programs for those capable and disability programs for those who legitimately cannot work.

Wealth is not a zero sum game. You create wealth by pulling resources out of the ground or shaping them into something people want.

Increasing taxes on the wealthy and reducing them on the poor. There is obviously a balancing act to this as there should always be incentive to produce more. I'm not necessarily against the existence of classes themselves, but I do obviously take issue with the predatory nature that is often represented among the upper classes just as I take issue with the subversive nature exhibited by many of the lower classes. We should encourage the lower classes to climb the ladder. We should also encourage an increased sense of civil duty among the upper classes, perhaps with punishments for those who neglect this responsibility.
A good example would be the "voluntary" donations that were asked of the people in Nazi Germany. I'm too lazy atm to find the source on this you can probably google it just fine but the Nazis would go around asking for whatever money people were willing to give to help support the social programs of the Reich. There was one documented case where a wealthy man had refused to pay any money for an extended period of time and receives jail time for it despite the donations being voluntary on paper. This actually isn't such a bad thing. No set amount required and it's purely a judgment call whether someone is paying their dues. Though people should be adequately warned and put through a trial to defend themselves if they were accused of not giving enough.
The meme spouters are just barely useful idiots.
I would severely limit how investment transactions may operate. The bottom line is that a company should not be seen as an entity in itself under the law. The people who own it should take the fall for the misdeeds of the business they own.
And the necessary part of that should be to keep the business afloat. Someone who walks away from a business to let it die while using its profits just to start a new one should be duly punished if it can be determined that they are doing so without regard to the well being of the nation.

Shared genetics.
This is a bit of a rough question to answer. You know this, obviously. That's why you asked it.

Race IS a social construct. But it reflects a materialistic reality. It exists on a gradient and were the lines are drawn is fairly arbitrary. Your question is not one I'm prepared to fully answer at this exact point in time. Though I will say that all races should seek pride in their race. Afrocentrism and zionism are ok in my book as long as they aren't hindering the white race.

...

Capped.

white people can't handle the sun. whiteness is a failed mutation, all those neonazis are going to get skin cancer from leaving their basements to protest or whatever they do

You cannot win an argument with people who are emotionally invested in their opinion. Head over to /marx/, there are several threads where ismael responds to aut-right fags non-ironically. All those threads end up with "whatever cuck".

don't waste your breath. people that buy into the jew spook are too far-gone petite bourg anyway

wrong.

ok

I must interject here for a moment. I really love Ismail's supernatural patience even though I can't but disagree with him on other points. My beginning with the left was years ago on lainchan, some people responding with the most serene calmness at my idiotic libertarian ramblings, and while I was initially mad as happens with anyone who has been totally BTFO, I eventually came to this board after knowing about it long before that.

So yes, I think that patience can actually be really useful when 'debating' people like them, which is something that has to be cultivated through enough knowledge, I guess. I wonder how many people have been made to abandon their previous ideologies after trying to shitpost at someone who remains undisturbed.

a libertarian is a petite-bourgeoisie who doesn't understand that the state works in his favor. you cannot compare that to a full-blown "jews control the world" nazi.

its a start

The next World War between these national states will destroy 90% of all human beings in westernt world. We need internationalism more than ever in this nuclear world.

You can't throw commies from a helicopter if you're too fat to fit in the helicopter.

Holla Forums BTFO

It is true. The thing is communists know modern socialism is in crisis and want a "economic revolution" to reaffirm its position. The proletariat, all anarchistic communes, no gender roles, etc. are all a part of this bizarre rain dance these people do. They think that if they can replicate the symptoms of economic conditions from the future, they can bring the economic conditions into the present.

Communism is a cargo cult BTFO

Where?

Don't you know socialism is when the state does stuff?

Yeah, but overall, you have to admit that Jews are a race of malevolent shit-stirring parasites who belong in the oven.

Bold claim cotton, lets see if it pays off.

but that's wrong spurdo, socialism is workers owning the MOP.

read uygur

books are for jews.

Just yell "THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A CUCK".

Kek, that post hit a nerve?

nigger are you a retard

Not really, that sort of autism that claims either nurture or nature is the primary mover in the superstructure is self-inflicted harm.

If by "socialism" you mean "social democratic movements" then its seems they're in a period of revival rather than crisis.

How did social democratic movements go last time??? I'm a little slow so you'll need to remind me. And yes socialism as a socioeconomic political philosophy has long been in crisis. Can't have workers movements without a labor aristocracy ;)

I'm not a succdem but they where the most successful at creating a decent and humane society under the capitalist means of production

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roter_Frontkämpferbund

hmmmmmm

Oh you where trying to be edgy

Are you retarded?

The historical innovation of the international corporation makes the idea of an ethnostate hilariously obsolete.

...

This is a stupid idea.

Transhumanism is superior.

...

t. the Italian army

That's legitimately a very, very scary thought.

>

Why?

Only incel Holla Forumsyp "whites" give a shit about Autism Level tho. Im certainly not looking for friends or gfs based on a nerd puzzle test number, nor do i know anyone else who is, but i see insecure fashies never shutting up about it.

Why is it a good thing?

Once automation gains enough traction, having a working class altogether will be pointless.

the actual answer is very simply really, the problem is presenting it in a way that your target will even listen to, basically that faggot wittgenstein is kinda right about one or two things, also drop the fucking nationalist bit, sure they are related but still seperate

ethnic supremacy of any flavor particularly the anglo kind stems from eugenics, and eugenics is bullshit pseudoscience that has always been a tool of the owning class and the fraternities that run this bitch, be that hobbes or the perfidious albions of the last few hundred years. They always clothe this shit in something new but its the same old same old and it amounts to absolutely nothing outside of being a useful tool for divide and conquer/removing poors

There are some pretty major differences between the races and you can argue about whether they are cultural or genetic but the fucking blob of grey matter in all of our heads renders the entire discussion irrelevant

think about it for a moment you have an organ in your fucking head that is literally capable of transforming your environment, every single one of us is like some kind of evolutionary reactor, a walking terraformer, even say a complete mongoloid is theoretically capable of universe changing efffects under optimal circumstances, and on top of that we are slowly finding out that consciousness is a lot more connected than we all previously thought

we are on a fucking stopclock people, we need to get as many of these dirty niggers on board as we can and elevate them to a point where they can assist as opposed to detract, we probably have a lot less time than we think to unfuck our shit and every wasted asset might just be another nail in our coffin

Too Gay; Didnt Read:
theres no point arguing race, racial differences are irrelevant when you look at the noosphere in fact they might end up being a boon in the long run. Its much better to find creative ways to call an actual supremacist a nigger than to argue "race realism" with him. deep down he knows hes a nigger just like the rest of us, the argument has to be tailormade for the person however

lastly avoid arguments founded on "morality" that shit is wishy-washy as fuck and has been misused a lot lately by the powers that should not be(humanitarian intervention and the like)

we need a new morality based on reason

Elaborate.