This thread is for discussion and enforcement of leftist popularisation and swaying public perception, including creation and hopefully some IRL distribution of propaganda and raids/operations.
Remember, most people are not Holla Forums. Memes can only get us so far. Lets turn their delusions about the Frankfurt school into something to worry about!
OPPORTUNIST!
The best thing we can do for the image of leftism is getting rid of the shitty USSR nostalgia and aesthetics.
but the uniforms and weapons look so nice…
If you have shit taste I guess…
nice argument dude, post some good looking uniforms with your superior taste then
not even OP, not even actually a fan of the Soviet Union, I just enjoy the aesthetic of a lot of different eras of Soviet military dress and armament
I've been meaning to summarize wage labour and capital and turn it into an infograph but never got to it.
Bullshit! The USSR aesthetic is one of the best things the modern left has going for it.
Do your really think lumpens got attracted to the far-right because of their economic policies? Of course not. Holla Forums (and by extension a huge amount of the internet) is chock-fulla politically-illiterate people who simply enjoy the Nazi aesthetic, plus the thought of exterminating nigs, spicks, and (obviously) da j00z.
The left needs an edge like that. Otherwise we're indistinguishable from the common Lib.
Please do comrade. This board needs less talking and more action.
...
The far-right is a fringe group they are not exactly role models.
First we need to dispel once and for all with this fiction that socialism is when the government does stuff. It is social ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange. Socialism is the undertaking of a systematic effort to change the world, to abolition capitalism and foster international solidarity. That's why we advocate for the end of neoliberalism and push for socialisation and make deals with international leftist organisations. It is a systematic effort to change the world. When we are in power, we are going to re-embrace all the things that made life fulfilling and prosperous and we are going to leave our children with what they deserve: a socialist society where the means of production are owned by those who work them.
t. Subcomandante Marcos Rubio
On a serious note, above is important: it is something we in the labour party are working for. Ending the perception that socialism is the welfare state and is instead an entire new mode of thought when it comes to economics will allow us to push forward with our plans. Also helping educate elected representatives is a good idea: I had a local councillor read into Bookchin for example.
Idea: Get a short, memorable phrase that will stick in peoples heads and cause them to think about how capitalism treats them. Put it up everywhere, painted on walls, slipped into library books, edited into some guys presentation, so it will stick with people and actually make them think. If it gets big enough it could arouse a sense of mystery and get people talking about it.
Reminded me of this. A simple question presented in a way that draws attention.
examples of such phases?
One thing I like it say to normies is, "you wouldn't accept a dictatorship right? Then why do you accept your boss?"
This is heading in the right direction.
Some criteria it should fill:
I haven't got examples at the moment, but when I think of some I'll post them.
How do you make such a pretty painting on a wall and then put such a shitty run-out text next to it?
I think it works stylistically, maybe it was a different person though.
Soviet aesthetic is fucking great though
We don't need to ditch it, just keep it online. The public, as I'm sure you know from experience getting beaten up for wearing a soviet ushanka, are not fans of the Lenin.
Eh
The sooner people become desensitized to seeing Soviet, communist, anarchist, etc imagery and so on the better. Trying to protect the sensibilities of aging boomers and others triggered by the S or C word isn't going to do is any favors.
The most important thing we can do is to systematically break the undeserved trust that liberal/reactionary sources receive.
Remember, the cumulative effect of capitalist propaganda is to give the proles a simplified view of the world. The cumulative effect of all socialist propaganda should be to give the proles a nuanced view of the world. Trusting some institutions is necessary in life and politics, but it is a risky proposition.
Along those lines…
One candidate for a (idealist) slogan: Doubt trust, trust doubt. (Ideally something like festine lente but with trust replacing haste should be a slogan).
Remember that getting normies to accept our ideas does not happen through tempting them of a greater future, it comes through making them uncomfortable with their own beliefs.
Does anyone give a shit about the hat? I've seen non-commies wear it plenty.
so recently i had a short conversatin with a dairy farmer and she told me about all the waste production, the price issues and so on. i tried to generalize her experience to help her settle in the realization that it's capitalist overproduction and the fact that we're living in a post scarcity society which asks for a new social order, and it did look like she was developing some thoughts about the bigger picture. just didn't feel like she'd be ready for talking about collectivisation, so i left her being for now. just hoping something like that comes up again.
point of this little story is that we should adress issues that people can easily relate to, something that they experienced and is real to them, and push them to generalizing the issue so they themself take the first steps of asking questions.
It doesn't matter how much you hate the USSR, it's the only large communist federation to ever exist despite its problems.
Also the red flags and the hammer and sickle are probably more instantly recognizable to people than the federal seal
Personally i don't really like soviet aesthetics and emblems for today communist agitprop. It was developed in the context of its time, a feudal society breaking through towards socialism. What's the symbols meaning for let's say the USA?
What they got going for them is that it's easy association with the classes the tools represent. I just feel like something more modern would do better, futuristic even. Pointing forward. I like the star, but also a rising sun, or a flame. Things like that.
And there are historic examples for that too.
The first two look fascist as fuck.
Not great. The aim is to promote class consciousness, I think this would just promote conspiracy theory. They need a good hard slap in the face, something that brings them to a big realisation about their lives under capitalism.
UPHOLD MARXISM-AKKOISM
P
H
O
L
D
M
A
R
X
I
S
M
-
A
K
K
O
I
S
M
tbh I think everyone needs to at least look through some rabbit holes to understand the ground we stand on. I agree its not great though. I'd want the message to be 'trust with suspicion' not 'trusting people is stupid'.
Class consciousness is a complex position masquerading as a simple realization. Class consciousness is convincing proles that they have a vested interest with each other more than with the those of another class (porky/lumpen). I think the focus should be being against capitalist structures rather than being against capitalists even if the two largely go hand in hand.
...
Are good old fashioned propaganda posters useful anymore?
Of course. In the US it's just called "advertising."
While the bordigists will get butthurt about this, the best way to portray socialism is as an extension of democracy. Westerners love democracy, so using terms like "Economic Democracy" and (if you're a bookchinite) Democratic Confederalism, etc etc are the best way to engage with normies. The government line on the USSR is that it was a totalitarain dictatorship. Portraying socialism as the antithesis to that is extremely useful to disarm people's stereotypes. If you just throw Marxist jargon at them the best possible result in they get confused.
Additionally, if you're in the US, you should definitely bring up socialism's historical defense of gun rights. It sounds fucking retarded but that's half the reason many republicans refuse to vote for democrats. Getting past that hump will help when talking to people in rural/conservative areas.
The end goal is for socialism, in the mind of an American, to be, above all else, *reasonable*, and ideally, *centrist*. This is done by combining "extension of democracy" rhetoric with a rejection of idpol and promotion of "small government" and gun rights. Even though you're promoting socialist concepts, if you gave a negative point value to your "Democrat" policies and a positive point to your "Republican" policies, you'd end up being about 0, or center.
This is crucial, because one of the main problems socialism has in the US imagination, besides outright demonization, is that it's "unrealistic". This is exemplified by the "good in theory, bad in practice" meme. Putting socialism in the "center" of US politics and grounding it in democratic ideals doesn't just ward of demonization, it also helps break down the "too idealistic" mindset many liberals have.
that's actually really good
These ones are really good
Not exactly short, but
Of course it could be misinterpreted as anti immigrant or something.
t-thanks
We were first, they just copy it.
this is very good, rhyming is a plus
kys
On a very flat level, I can understand Communist desires and see the pros in some of their ideas, and the cons that are being pointed out in Capitalism.
But it's very hard to escape the shadow cast by every failed communist attempt in history. I can't help but feel that they'd end up doing shit 'for the greater good' that'd make me hate life. Wouldn't a communist government curb the 1st and 2nd amendment? Wouldn't they pull China-tier controls on the Internet, or just remove it entirely? Wouldn't they start disappearing folks who don't toe the party line? Wouldn't they find new targets after the rich are ousted and killed (The people who are statistically now rich because of all the previous rich folks being dead, and intellectuals who might free-think a bit too much)? Wouldn't they start censoring art that isn't conductive to the state? Weren't most of the media I actively enjoy only possible through the creative lens of non-capitalist society? Wouldn't any Communist government in a modern, western nation end up consumed by raving identity politics types that value equality of outcome beyond logical extremes?
I'd totally buy into a communist government that would guarantee the two rights I have that I actually care about defending and my ability to shitpost, watch kamen rider and jerk off to anime without having to hear how how i'm a racist oppressor despite having a 600 dollar a year income, but i'm unconvinced. Sell me on communism.
just start talking about banking and bankers and banking scandals and how politicians are involved in them always and how the public is always affected by them and so is the stability of the economy. nothing makes people angrier than bankers being evil.
i have always liked this one
You do the work, why do the shareholders get the money?
If you can vote for a government, you can vote for a boss.
Then go to a thread for that or start your own
also
we're not reddit or tumblr, we think that's bullshit too
Your view of communism is very warped by a cold war era understanding. Let's go.
There are a number of reasons for that, but I wouldn't say those societies were failures economically. The Russia/USSR went from being hundreds of years behind the rest of europe with fuedalism and serfdom barely abolished, to a modern industrial nuclear superpower which invented manned and unmanned spaceflight, all in a mere few decades. This is an unrivaled accomplishment in human history. Yes, their standard of living looks pretty bleak compared to 2000s+ America, but it was light years ahead of third world countries during the same period which is why so many third world people went the route of communist revolution. The USSR was not a workers paradise but it also wasn't the hell on earth people have been lead to believe in the west.
New versions of communism would be directly democratic. Most people on here are in favor of free speech as well as pro-gun.
Establishing an alternative economic system where the control over the economy is ceded to society/the workers as a whole necessarily involves seizing the wealthy's property and giving it back to the people. The wealthy probably wont like that and will fight back, thus there will be conflict. It's not about simply killing the rich, its about ending the system. Killing rich people without changing the economic system will do nothing as new rich will simply emerge. Once all the factories, businesses, etc. are under common control, a new economic system in which people are paid far more equally will be established. Therefore a 'new rich' won't emerge.
again were in favor of free speech. As for things like the movie industry, it will be better under socialism as directors etc will be free to make intelligent movies, rather than crappy remakes that have made movies suck so hard nowdays, with lots of FX but crap writing and story. See George Lucas:
youtube.com
assuming you're a burger, 1. your government already does that. 2. not really, we're for universal firearms ownership and an open season for capitalists
no, why would they?
Depends who is in power
???
We're not after the 'rich', we're after the capitalists, ie. owners of capital. Its not about shaving off the top income bracket silly.
Why would a communist government would censor anything that isn't counter-revolutionary propaganda or try to be conductive to the state
Not sure what you mean
communism is against equality of outcome so no. identity politics is the purview of liberalism and can expect a bullet to the head.
Apologies. Starting a thread dedicated entirely dedicated to my question seemed wasteful, but upon a second reading of the thread I can see I totally mistook the point of it.
I won't argue that my view is probably skewed by general cold-war era sentiments, yeah. Thanks
Not saying they don't, but we at least maintain a more robust freedom of speech than most other western nations. We've got case law that continues to slowly add up against "Hate speech isn't protected!!!", at least.
China and Cuba, mostly. Though i'll admit them removing the internet is incredibly unlikely, and cuba's situation is just that they didn't get it until fairly recently, rather than removing it
I wrote "Non-Capitalist" instead of "Capitalist" or "Non-Communist", whoops.
Anyway, thanks. I'm probably being overly reductive here, but it seems like the general gist is "Hope that the right kind of communism with the right kind of leaders is enacted, with previous failures as examples to leverage". I guess that's around what I expected.
tbh since you were such a good sport about it instead of going ape like Holla Forums does i'll help you out
China isn't socialist, and Cuba has done it as a way to protect itself against subversion by capitalist interests ( they tried to kill fidel like 600 times ffs). Under a more powerful socialist country, I doubt it would be necessary since there's no threat.
Not really. Go watch some soviet movies, they're sometimes even more enjoyable than western movies because they're not made to make profits in hollywood, they're made because they're art.
that's what all of us want to do fam. everyone here hates identity politics, because they divide the workers into black worker vs white worker or native worker vs immigrant worker when we're all just workers and our real enemy are the capitalists who profit from infighting.
I think the most important thing you have to realise is that socialism is not the soviet union. Look at examples like Catalonia or the Ukranian free territory. It's not all dictatorships, it just happens that the one socialist country that was a dictatorship was so strong that it's all people think about nowadays.
most robust capitalist nation in the world
the reason they didn't have much internet and still have it limited is mostly due to the US embargo and them being forcibly isolated from the rest of the world. They were bypassed by undersea cables and have had a hard time managing to connect to the internet in general, still gov funding has been increasing connectivity and setting up wifi across the country. Its a cuban condition and not to do with policy.
In general your idea of communism seems to be all-powerful central government when we actually advocate the abolition of the state and of private property with it.
That's not entirely true. Most of us who aren't stalinists refuse to ally with authoritarian socialists, and to ensure that the revolution doesn't fall into a dictatorship some are even anarchists. Myself, I fall somewhere in between the two as a syndicalist, where unions of workers function as goverment
If you want to a read a bit, read this
marxists.org
and maybe this
trips confirm, go read the essays
Hello how would i like to join
no i mean
Hello, i would like to join, how much do i need to read
redditttttttttt
Yeah, that's true. I'm a recent immigrant from there, I lost faith after /r/socialism banning people for saying "blind"
XD
OwO
its cool bro, just don't put so many spaces in between your lines, it looks bad in an imageboard format. Also I don't agree with the Ukrainian Free territory, Catalonia was good and socialist but Makhno was basically a land pirate. Furthermore, why don't you want to ally with marxists? In practice an Anarchist revolution would look pretty similar to a marxist one
Really?
Wow! it looks Really bad in Image boards ?
Man you Guys must be really wanting alot of
People in to the
Revolution!
You
Guys
Are
Also
Really
Friendly!
It's
Like
You
Really
Want
More
People!
Oh no lad, I'm a marxist myself. A De-Leonist, which is pretty much Marxist-Syndicalism. I meant I don't want to ally with full on stalin DPRK apologists
( :
report submitted :^)
Yeah, I'll admit that I know that China isn't really Communist these days, it just was in the past, IIRC.
And yeah, i'm aware that not all Communism is USSR/PRC, but it seems like throughout history Authoritarian States have been the only successful attempts. But, in the desire to not further derail the thread, i'll cap things here and maybe read some links and things.
Please absolve me of the weird shit that I seemed to have tipped the first domino into.
alright I fucked up, got it
please stop the bullying
Yes! Reporting in! Great!
( v :
man i love Holla Forums
see ya guys tomorrow this is really dang fun to just find new ways of shitposting
The other ones got couped by Uncle Sam
Read up on Allende and this pastebin pastebin.com
Nah there are faggots like this here every day, ignore him
wy not
/r/Socialism banned me for "defending the tools of imperialism" because I'm a veteran and I said we could spread class consciousness within the military.
/r/LateStageCapitalism banned me for saying that Juche is the insane ramblings of a syphilitic mind
Apparently insane is an ableist slur, which is definitely a thing guys I swear
...
You're a true hero, comrade
Reddit mods are absolutely cancerous. If you get autobanned by one of their bots for posting on a proscripted sub, if you're anything but grovelling at their feet, they treat you like you're the asshole.
The mods here can be bad, but there's a level of insanity at work on reddit that currently cannot be measured by modern science.