What makes starship troopers a movie about fascism?

Okay, wait. It's been some time since I've read the book, but I'm fairly sure that it made a point that everyone willing to serve for the country will be given an opportunity of service that is manageable for them (i.e. some boring shit on a backwater planet if they're not fit for donning power armor and nuking bugs), as long as they are mentally capable enough to say the oath and sign a contract.

The Director said it was a take on both Imperialism and Fascism.

A naive force of strong men who think themselves the most strongest force of nature in the galaxy take on what they've been told are insects and bugs and can be easily crushed

Leave maimed, destroyed, in body bags, chewed up, spit out, and ultimately the message doesn't change because that would mean the Government was wrong in its deduction its enemy was anything more than a simplistic fighting force.

Which was actually a problem in historical Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany.

The enemy is so subhuman and degenerate, we cannot possibly lose!

I honestly think the movie takes it farther than the book in a way nobody has even thought of yet.

And that's fascism's, or Imperialism's, inability to correctly gauge an enemy. The fact this took place nearly before 9/11 is a bit eeirly prescient, as well.

The fact that time and again a technologically "superior" force, can go proud marching down against an enemy with far less it considers subhuman, doesn't take the proper precautions because it thinks there need be none, and gets fucking mowed down.

The Soviets vs Nazi Germany. Vietnam vs America. The Middle East. Italy against the Allies.

None of them were actually prepared, and once they were, the government wouldn't change course on the message that "They're just men in rags! Who the fuck cares! Quit being a baby, go kill em! It's easy! And quick!"

"They're just bugs! Who the fuck cares! Quit being a baby, go kill em! It's easy! And quick!"

I think that's the point. It doesn't matter who the fuck you think you are, how much political power you have, how much equipment you're geared with, if you cannot properly gauge who you're fighting with you're not only destined to lose a war you're churning the youth out into body bags, but you'll be taken advantage of by whatever market is supplying the equipment who now see no profit in winning. And the market influences the state.

And the state says "Brain bugs! I find the very notion of a bug that thinks insulting!"

The book doesn't go there at all, though. The bugs are capable of forming alliances and have advanced technology, and humans acknowledge that. Humans don't zerg rush the bugs while wearing t-shirts and waving handheld rifles.

The movie was a very shallow parody of the book. I mean, if one's to poke fun at Heinlein then there are better targets, like for example the fucking monologues about his take on behavioral psychology interjected every other chapter.

See. I don't think it is. I think it brilliantly parodies what the book doesn't actually focus on at all

And that's the fact it's based mostly on 20th century military theory, but the fact that 20th century military theory in even the lightest sense, didn't work.

Because underlining the movie is an anti-capitalist sense that there's more pushing the war to the unacknowledged of what they consider "mere bugs" and not actual extraterrestrial entities. It's not only ironic such a technical force gets mowed down "by mere bugs", that has historical context throughout the 20th century from how the Axis dealt with the Allies, to how the Americans dealt with the Soviets.

The former, was pure incompetence in pride. The second, was more sinister incompetence.

Which one is going on in the movie? Simple or sinister incompetence?

I would say the incompetence is far more American. The people who produce the weaponry have no reason to persuade the government or the military to accurately adjust the war machine's message that what they're fighting is "So simple! So stupid! So inept! They cannot possibly win!" as a rallying cry to get new blood in over and over to generate a profit for all this equipment. A Forever War.

The book just doesn't go into that at all and thinks that the Weapons Industry just seeks for the good of all, it's naive where the film is not. It ends exactly as it begins, suggesting that this can keep going forever and ever

and ever.

Again, the fact this movie took place right before 9/11 is eerie.

In the end, for how stupid the movie may be, how much it may fall short, it still ended up being more like the future than the book was.

That was actually a televised debate in the movie, between two experts. Obviously ONE of the experts was wrong.

okay, but thats also the story of the iraq war, viet nam, korea..

Like, I believe verhoeven was making a movie about fascism, I'm not convinced he succeeded past an aesthetic level. If you swap out their Ideology for present day america, the movie doesnt change a lot.

supposedly stranger in a strange land is getting an adaptation and I cant wait to see how they deal with some of his views on gender roles and cannibalism

I don't think the movie was supposed to be about Fascism and Imperialism on an aesthetic level, on the contrary, it was meant to show how shallow a surface "aesthetic" actually is in a war

“Our philosophy was really different [from Heinlein’s book],we wanted to do a double story, a really wonderful adventure story about these young boys and girls fighting, but we also wanted to show that these people are really, in their heart, without knowing it, are on their way to fascism,” Verhoeven said.

LIke I said. I think he believed he was making a movie about fascism, but its much more about american imperialism, which might be damning by association, but its definitely a different beast.

The Federation did Buenos Aires.

There is only one definition of fascism and that was made by its founder mussolini.

really jogs the noggin'

Have you even read the book?

I do not know some terms…but the movie is badads.

I am doing my part!

Nobody is taking my bait is alarming.

I was going to but then i realized not even yugoposter could be that stupid

The movie injects more irony than the book, the movie is more like a parody of fascism than promoting fascism, the message of the movie is essentially that war and militarism 'make fascists of us all' i.e. turn society more fash

Bru verhoevan is making then point that American imperialism, militarism, is paving the way to fascism not 1:1.

From what I understand, the movie can be viewed as pretty much in the universe of the book, it would be a propaganda movie.

Apparently in the book they provoke the bugs, and the entire thing is a false flag operation.

The book has several chapters that show civilian life in the federation in detail.
The federation itself it just a limited democracy and is not at all fascist.
Indeed, one does not even have to perform military service to gain citizenship in the book.

Now that is simply untrue.
The thrust of the book is how military service and personal sacrifice for ideals that are greater then the individual can shape a person for the better.
This is best seen with how Rico and his father are able to enjoy a relationship only after they both join the MI and abandon civilian life.
The scenes of warfare only take up like 10% of the book, if that.

Incorrect.
The federation of the book is defending itself against alien aggression, it already has a number of colonies.

Eugenics is not at all featured in the book.
The closest thing to it is musings on the radiological properties of a specific colony world.

Given that the book explicitly states that civilians make up the majority of the population, I fail to see how you would come to that conclusion.

I would love to see whatever silly definition of Fascism you use.
As the federation is not organized along corporatist lines, it is by definition not Fascist.

Only in the movie.

Try actually reading the book.

Nope.
The bug war in the book is defensive.

This is only true of the movie.

Honestly, did this board get flooded by acolytes of fucking Muke recently?
Try reading the source material before you attempt to make (uneducated) declarative statements regarding it.

Well, from what I've heard

The movie is a parody of fascist propaganda. It's extremely subtle about this, so a lot of people think it's being unironic.

youtube.com/watch?v=ngOchfbbgz0

o lord i'd fucking DESTROY carmen, my man.

the most interesting thing about the films portrayal of fascism is that it is palatable to liberal sensibilities. the fascist state is multicultural and has equality of sexes. The Military leader is a black woman and even the infantry is mixed gender. I believe also that when Rico is punished a black man is giving out the lashes. Liberals watching the film can be seduced by fascistic principles with give the film alot more subtlety.
Could one say that this allows it to focus on the more universal aspects of fascism? by removing the specificities of actually existing fascism like Italian nationalism or hitlerite anti-semitism we can see how it would function in other societies.

This

Kursk was a victory. The only reason it registered as a defeat is the Germans weren't subhumans like the communist slavs, and seeing such carnage killed their morale.

Completely wrong. On all logistical counts, Nazi Germany went in with sophisticated weaponry, that was bogged down in need of constant repair, distracting actual time moving forward, costing them time. It was, by all means, more sophisticated than the technology of the Soviet Union at the time.

However, Sophistication does not mean victory, as history shows. The Soviets were able to send jurry rigged military vehicles, no need to constantly repair new these tanks or troop carriers, etc.

Another problem was pride, the Nazis sent in many with old maps. From decades prior, prior to 1917. The geography of the Soviet Union had changed from Tsarist's Russia. Now, they got lost, and among the repairs needed, were ambushed quite easily.

You don't understand that casualties in this case doesn't matter. It really doesn't. You send ten who get shot, you got 100 more. And so on.

With the Nazis bogged down in

It doesn't matter if you consider them subhuman, the Nazis, like all Imperial and Fascist powers, were unable to judge their enemy objectively and therefore were bogged down and lost.

They had the superior firepower, and ultimately it did not matter in the slightest. Firepower, technology, logistics, they went in thinking a simple defeat of the Soviets was a simple defeat. Pride, arrogance, this was the Nazis Achilles's Heel

They were wrong

And yes, a fair many were "Mowed down"

Sure thing comrade, sure thing!

I have never understood why Holla Forums-tards like the movie so much.
Equality of the sexes, races and a global state is normally something that they would consider 'Jewish propaganda'.

Bloody hell their ilk is a blight.

What a load of horseshit.

Please do feel free to provide any specific counter arguments to my points.
Rather then make such an utterly useless post.

I have my copy of the book on hand and I'm more then willing to provide direct quotations to support my points.

Does "Enemy at the Gates" trigger Holla Forums?

I don't care much about the quotations. You present specific interpretation, of course you'll have out-of-context shit to back it up.

So not only are you against addressing specific arguments, but you are also against the presentation of supporting, primary source evidence?

Everything he said was true. Try reading the book and actually provide a counter-argument.

You're literally just making shit up. What point is pride on an anonymous site?

This is a terrible summary of the book. The government in the book is clearly a representative republic.

As has been said, it's the movie that portrays it as fascistic.

How fucking retarded can you be.

youtube.com/watch?v=1SdO-btKuds

You mean the Wehraboo tier shitstain of a film?

This is correct. In fact the book is VERY specific about the fact that the military doesn't really want new recruits, they only take the top 1% (or less) of applications. Most people end up digging ditches somewhere for civil infrastructure as regular non-military government employees.

He also writes a book where the protagonist fucks his own father and mother in a three way. Heinlein, for all that he's awesome, kind of went fucking crazy at the end.

Fun fact, I worked as an extra in that film.
They basically looked for every Russian in the Berlin area.
The "Russian" soldier who farted out the candle light was actually a German. He was payed 50 bucks extra.
The director had not a high opinion of Russians in general.

That you had the take and also sport the (only) right flag just warms my heart, senpai :)

The *right* take, damnit. Imma go kms now

Well thank you.
Given the hostility most of my posts receive here.
I do sincerely appreciate any kind words.