The Science Behind Gender

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Gender differentiation is less and less relevant for highly industrialized societies. The biological distinction between the male and female sex obviously exists, but there is only a small amount of information relayed by gender identity which actually correlates with those differences. It's usefulness is largely cultural, as we no longer need to live in a hunter-gathered tribe. It's reasonable to assume this trend will only increase in a socialist society, with the abolition of gender-specific exploitation like prostitution and uncompensated childcare.

Sex = gender. Sex, while supposedly biological and pre-social, is necessarily discursive and so contingent upon relations of power.

genuinely unsure if this is a TERF speaking right now or not.

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Pick one.

yale.summon.serialssolutions.com/#!/search?ho=f&fvf=IsScholarly,true,f&l=en&q="gender expression"

No matter how much the mentally ill ITT try to dismiss it gender is the result of the influence our sex hormones have on our brains.
thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/Testosterone?act=2

Any non mentally ill person knows that you are not entirely conditioned by external factors to act, be and conform to your gender, it is something that you just naturally "feel" all your life. It comes from within, not from the outside.

The whole idea behind trannies is that in rare cases the hormone levels in the brain will get fucked up and cause it to develop at least partially as the opposite sex while the rest of the body doesn't, and its not something that can be cured by trying to increase their natural hormone levels, the only effective treatment is to take the hormones of the opposite sex so the body matches the mind.

Approach the subject through the lense of anthropology. Sex is biological, gender is cultural albeit conditioned by biology.

Sex:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

Gender:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

Ah, so once a man takes estrogen she becomes a women. Consider me pink pilled!

Gender is a linguistic term. I'm not too knowledgeable on much, especially not linguistics, but I know that much. Most languages have two genders, some can have none and others can have many.

I asked for scientific sources, not your unsubstantiated opinion.

Can i still be a leftist if I refuse this bullshit? You either are male or female, and males should be masculine and females should be feminine. Why does the left care about these special snowflake weirdos? Go back to the working class.

Amazing insight from the peanut gallery.

woah you're so original here you earned that soviet medal

There isn't any biological science behind gender, it's linguistic science.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender

Yes.

it makes you a shitty leftist in need of despooking.

I'm talking about sex. Your comment "sex is a biological phenomenom, there's two of them" doesn't have anything to back it up — I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it's unsubstantiated and therefore not helping.

I mean some people are born with birth defects, but people that are healthy at birth have either a penis or vagina - a male organ or female organ.

I didn't comment anything of the sort though.

Of course. A good leftist is all about class.

On the contrary. A shitty leftist is one that gives too much of a fuck about shit unrelated to class.

What makes people with chromosome fuckery not healthy at birth?

But refusing that gender is a spook IS giving too much of a fuck about shit unrelated to class bud

if you're forcing people to accept gender roles they don't want then you're not focusing on class.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome#Signs_and_symptoms
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXXY_syndrome#Signs_and_symptoms
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49,_XXXXY_syndrome#Signs_and_symptoms

"The neoconservativism within the Left that seeks to discount the cultural can only always be another cultural intervention, whatever else it is. And yet the tactical manipulation of the distinction between cultural and economic to reinstitute the discredited notion of secondary oppression will only reprovoke the resistance to the imposition of unity, strengthening the suspicion that unity is only purchased through violent excision. Indeed, I would add that the understanding of this violence has compelled the affiliation with poststructuralism on the Left, that is, a way of reading that lets us understand what must be cut out from a concept of unity in order for it to gain the appearance of necessity and coherence, and to insist that difference remain constitutive of any struggle. This refusal to become resubordinated to a unity that caricatures, demeans, and domesticates difference becomes the basis for a more expansive and dynamic political impulse. This resistance to ‘unity’ carries with it the cipher of democratic promise on the Left."

the construction of a sustainable society is an important part of the leftist project. Capitalist society is experiencing a grave identity crisis. Market 'freedom' snatches the ground from under our feet. The late capitalist subject is increasingly polarised and lashes out at any perceived threats to its identity. On one side you have a resurgence of heteronormative reaction on the other you have queer 'gender abolitionists'. None of the options really make sense. Instead of dismissing gender as a 'spook' a mere obstacle for the creation of a new normative 'unspooked' subject that is totally empty of content, we should find a way to integrate society as it actually exists right now. Many traditional societies have no stigma around gender variation, most people are either 'men' or 'women' but grey areas are recognised.

You all deserve the gas.

If gender is a spook, are transgender people spooked? How can we reprogram them so they realise it's all in their heads? Can Stirner cure trans?

gender dysphoria isn't a spook, its a legit medical condition.
Stirner has always been popular with radical queers for a reason, its because recognizing that gender is a spook gives you the freedom to reinterpret your own identity however you want. Someone who was born male but feels like a woman and starts using female pronouns isn't spooked, they're actually despooking themselves in their own way.
Adolf Brand, arguably the first modern gay rights activist, was a huge Stirnerboo as well.

But 'woman' is a spooky gender role created by society. One can't feel like a social construct that was designed to turn female bodied people into housewives and baby producing machines

I wish Stirnerposting memers had at least read a few pages from the Ego and Its Own.

Other social categories result from class. Its not an interaction, and they are fundamentally different.

irrelevant. Stirner never said dismiss all spooks just because they are spooks. If someone identifies as female and feels more comfortable being a woman than the correct thing for that person to do is to transition. Not transitioning would be denying your unique being.

The entire basis of Marxist sociology is that the capitalist economy has a social element to it and impacts life outside of the economic sphere as well. Acknowledging that the superstructure exists doesn't mean you think that its more important than class.

Lol lefties think social phenomenon is some detached arbitrary thing that don't make sense. Too stupid to look beyond their noses and see that social phenomenon IS biological phenomenon.

Go to any social animal and somehow force the females and males to switch their gender roles or just go gender neutral. Guaranteed they'll all die off. These 'arbitrary' social phenomena has been developed by millions of years of evolution.

Evolution is even working on you stupid fucks. You don't have kids, you let your women be whores and spend all your time with trivialities. Oh well, at least my grandchildren won't have to hear muslims spam spook memes.

Fuck you. FuUuUUUUcckckkk yoooouuuuuuuu

Bookchin was so right about eco fascism

You know, the very basis of civilization is that humans are distinct from animals. Female mantises eat their partner during mating, should we also use that as a social model?

you do realize there are animals which are capable of switching between male and female right? And that human social interactions are way more complex than animal's?
the appendix developed through millions of years of evolution. And now we don't need it anymore.

Just because something is a social phenomenon does not mean that its insnt influenced by biological trends. Now go fuck yourselve, trends should not be forced on people. And if things are so natural then why are so many behaving against their "nature"?

Actually we kind of do. It's not just vestigial as was once thought but has active functions.

Gender roles are a product of class society. In our society 'woman' is an unit that pops out workers and engages in unpaid domestic labor in order to sustain the system. It's retrograde to want to be a 'woman' when you are not physically female. Instead of perpetuating gender roles we should abolish them.

literal who

We're not. That's just human centrist bullshit. We are the way we are. Go be Mr.Civilized and try to get some pussy if you want to know the truth.

I didn't say every animal acted the same.

Are you trying to talk about culture? I'm talking about human social phenomenon and gender. Culture changes, yes, but the latter two has virtually stayed the same throughout human history.

Holla Forumsyps never change

You guys think you're so different from mainstream liberals, but you're just as full of shit.

doesn't change the fact that some people are going to be born male and identify as women.
That's only true as long as capitalism exists, after capitalism that kind of gendered labor won't be necessary.
Abolishing gender roles isn't the same thing as abolishing gender (But i still think we should get rid of both in the long term.)

Why should anyone engage in an argument with a retard? Laughing at the chimp throwing shit doesn't make you wrong.

Forcing people to express a particular gender role, for whatever reason, is incompatible with their emancipation. Literally who cares what the roots of gender are, or its relation to biological sex? Human emancipation means letting people live as they please.

Transgenderism, the idea that one can authentically 'experience' a socially constructed gender spook, is a reactionary ideology.

Okay buddy, you've virtue signaled enough for a life time. So you can go ahead and kill yourself and let the non literal retards have a discussion.

Like lol you're so retarded that even with your opinions you are on here. Like you must be such a loser to be outcasted by the biggest losers in our society. Literally kill yourself.

it's a fucking medical condition. What you're talking about are the tumblr liberals who think gender is cosmetic and you can pick and choose what you identify as.

here u go youtube.com/watch?v=Re8d7SZ3Ys0

same channel aso useful to btfo race 'real'ists

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From an anthropological standpoint, that's not entirely accurate. Early gender roles emerged prior to the formal emergence of class society; women for example often were the primary caregivers of their respective communities (be it for their own children or on the behalf of the community at large) even before the tribal units they were a part of came under the rule of a proper ruling class. What class society did though was codify those gender roles as an enforced social expectations rather than a flexible trend in human behavior born out of utility in the face of preexisting conditions; from informal expectation (at most) to formal expectation on threat of violence/destitution. Going back to the example of women as caregivers, class structures created a coercive framework that restricted the rights and roles of women so that previous trends towards caregiving became their only means of survival, leading to your aforementioned situation where the labor of those women was systemically exploited.

nonbinary transgenders who see gender as a choice are less spooked than those who insist in conforming to traditional gender roles.

Identifying as any gender is entirely denying your unique status. Saying you're more comfortable identifying as a "man" or "woman" is to discard your uniqueness and define yourself with arbitrary definitions. Transitioning is just moving between a definition society imposes onto you to taking a definition society imposes onto others.

No one denies that. The point is the person is spooked and denies their uniqueness. I was born male but I do not identify as a man, though I appear physically masculine. I simply identity as an individual, and I feel like the most important traits a human should have should not be exclusive to men or women, though they might be considered masculine or feminine. If I felt like wearing dresses then I'd wear dresses, but I still would just identity as an individual.

This is true. It's absurd to think an individual can experience something non-existent. I have no idea what a man or a woman feels like, I only know what I feel like.

Gender dysphoria is a real thing where you effectively believe you're in the wrong body, but it makes more sense to think of it as a sort of body dysmorphia.

You are just making assumptions, your whole idea on how to interpret the natural world is rediculous and shaped by our current society and not anything objective, your simple assumption that natural means the same as good is unexamined ideology, applying these wrong ideas unto humanity without any argument whatsoever as if it is logical while starting your argument with a massive strawmen. Couppled with some statements that make clear that you have literally no clue what you are talking about means probably dont even have a coherent ideology and that talking with you is useless.

I thank you for bothering to think about how could someone wish to be something completely alien. I honestly wonder, how could a child who has never had an encounter with the other sex wish to be something different? Departing from this, I don't think that there is such a thing as a woman and man in an individual's symbolic world just as he is born, that would make language preexisting as well and imply humans are born subjects right away and not individuals first.

This thread is useless.
The mentally ills like this fella simply can't understand how it is to be normal and "feel and be" your gender and the normal people simply can't understand how it is to be mentally ill and have gender just as an accessory that you can wear at will.
Debating with people who are totally unable to understand the other side is meaningless.
Everybody, please, abandon the thread.

I think i'm going to just give up on arguing here because nothing you said i disagree with but apparently we're on opposite sides now.
I blame myself for sucking at debates.
Only thing i'll say now is that i know people with dysphoria who recognize 100% that gender is a spook but surprise, surprise, just saying that doesn't help their mental health.

If you substract the spooks, gender boils down to nothing more than socially constructed roles and preferences for accessories.

Imo that's just internalising the spooks of a spooked society.

No one is denying that gender is socially constructed. The argument whether or not gender is arbitrary and separate from biology. Scientifically, it is not. Ironically, your arguments against this are are your own "socially constructed arbitrary" norms.

I think the difference is you think choosing your own gender is an act of despooking, while I'm saying thinking in terms of gender is invariably spooky.
I wasn't saying otherwise.

Gender is based in biology, ie. Women bear children, hence they are told they are only good for making babies and taking care of the home. There's no good reason to continue this regime. Besides, not all women are able to bear children. And the whole muh biology argument doesn't take into account the existence of intersex people. The biological sex binary itself is a social construct based on a reductive simplification of reality.

One of the reasons I started this thread is that I've heard this statement from times to times and wished I knew the scientific evidence behind it. Do you happen to have any?

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gender is inherently spooky, i'm arguing that part of despooking yourself means defining yourself however you want to be. For some that could mean rejecting gender all together but it could also mean embracing being male or female. It all depends on the individual.

That's probably because they are Weak and lack the willpower to overcome their spooks.

Why do fearmongering reactionaries like you even care about protecting the West and its values when you hate Liberalism and Western culture and have more in common with the "subhuman brown savages"? It's like you want to protect the West so that you can later destroy it.

Do the world a favor and kill yourself.

This is nonsense typical of a black and red flag. Gender roles are assigned via the division of labour. Do you think either man or woman picked their roles in society, or their formation of them?

Please find me the third gamete after sperm and eggs.

med.monash.edu.au/gendermed/sexandgender.html

There's more than two sexes, but yeah sex is biological. Gender is psychosocial