Democracy thread

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/monsieur-dupont-democracy

sounds good.

I haven't completely given up on democracy, but I think the results of a vote should be considered more of a suggestion than rule. There should be a technocratic branch of government full of scientists, engineers, and all other experts that make the big decisions and can override popular vote.

Howard is that you?

Direct democracies are good, that's what the past socialist states lacked, more democratic control of production.
Representative burgy democracy is shit

The ride never ends
Can someone explain to me how direct democracy is different from "bourgeoisie democracy"? People magically stop being racists, sexists etc and egoists? People magically don't vote conservatives?

democratic centralism is the only good democracy

The main appeal don't lie in attitude toward bigotry but not having the general interest subjugated by lobbies, said subjugation is more likely to happen when decisions are the product of a distinct politician class that rarely face the direct consequences of thoses decisions.

Tell me about it. Marx considered Hegel to be one of his worthy opponents? Really makes you think.

"Democracy" as we have it now or the concept?
Voting is nice but democracy is better.

Good, but incompatible with capitalism.

You connect everyone to a machine, it takes everyone's subjective preferences and processes into a artificial consensus that everyone is made to obey. That's democracy.

Why should degenerate poorfags get to vote on how to opress private business owners? Democracy isn't worth anything if just anyone is allowed to vote. True freedom mandates that superior people should have more of a say. Autistic leftists just take buzzwords like "equality" and "democracy" to absurd, unrealistic degrees -
socialism is basically just virtue signaling as a political philosophy. Infantile "revolutionaries" cause endless unnecessary violence and economic hardship all so they can act morally superior. This board disgusts me tbh

You post on a board that disgusts you, that's kind of kinky.

Who would you call superior people?

Why should I care about private business owners?

Wouldn't your own post count as virtue signalling?

Yep, poorfags are totally just degenerate, lazy, tools, who don't want to work.

And richfags, are TOTALLY just fucking so skilled at this system.

Now inherently, this sounds fine. Right? More Success = More skill. It's a simple and fast assumption to make. But beyond this assumption; what about the evidence that suggests this is all false, user?

Depends how it's done. One vote per family who doesn't get welfare is reasonable. Giving a vote to anything that breathes is just stupid, we'd be better off deciding things with tea leaves.

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Whining about property rights and freedom is peak virtue signaling.

Give us evidence that these business owners aren't exploiting the needs and conditions of poor people,
that they are there because of pure skill, and we are here because we truly are just lazy fuckers, and only then, you would have convinced us.

why are you even surprised

The economically succesful. They have contributed the most to society.

You like that computer/smartphone you're posting on, cuck?

Only to a faggot commie such as yourself

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Yes, let's restrict voting to only those with enough money and influence to buy politicians off, after all, those are the only people who matter and everyone below a certain income level is scum.

They should only let people who are on welfare and pensions vote.

People who are not on welfare and pensions tend to be lazy about politics and don't know how important these things are.

really gets the noggin joggin

Only the first one of those is bullshit.
Capitalism has a pretty clear definition, which the current system fits, so it is capitalism. Crony capitalism is a buzzword and the idea it expresses is contained within the definition of capitalism anyway, so while the term is appropriate on its own, it's inappropriate as a way of differentiating the current system from capitalism in theory.
Communism as a system has a clear definition, even if it's vague and general, and no society has ever achieve communism. Communism as an ideology or movement has been an accurate descriptor of various places but this isn't the definition in use when people say what you quote. State capitalism is a distinct concept from communism and "normal" market capitalism, with a pretty clear definition. The distinction drawn here is meant to explain to people that for intance the USSR was not an example of a socialist/communist mode of production, that they were still capitalist and to say that communism doesn't work because of bad things that happened in the USSR is a non-sequitur.
This one is the easiest and clearest. Democracy simply means "rule of the people." Its idealized version fetishized in liberal society specifically means "rule of all the people" when historically democracy has actually been "rule of some of the people" from Greece up to now. Bourgeois democracy specifically means that the most obscenely wealthy entities (people and corporations) are the ones in charge. Even though "everyone" is in control because of voting, the real control is exerted through campaign donations and lobbying, which is possible and inevitable because of the skewed distribution of wealth.

You're b8ing too hard considering it's burger power hours

Ever heard of some thing called science? Well, one of the prevailing scientific theories is that of evolution, wherein it is he survival of the fittest. If lazy, unskilled wastes of oxygen die in poor working conditions, maybe they should have thought twice about agreeing to work there in the first place. A poorfag death is just evolution at work, weeding out the stupid and the indolent. But leftists would rather coddle each and every degenerate that's born, tolerating any genetic impurities as mere "differences" that ought to be "tolerated". Here's a sad dose of reality, kiddos: most people who die deserve it, and that's a good thing. Evolution is what put us where we are today. But the authoritarian left (even so called "anarchist" communists) seeks to dominate every aspect of human life and let degenerates reign supreme.

I didn't say only the rich should vote, but that voters should put at least as much into the system as they're taking out if they want to be heard.

Yes, communists are the cucks.

youtube.com/watch?v=wHECt8IeX94

I've no idea if you're intentionally memeing Spencer or not, but seriously consider killing yourself.

they should let me vote and nobody else.

pros
-i'll find out who "they" are
-i'm interested in the common good
-no political squabbles ever again

cons
-some salty fag will be mad he doesn't get to vote

More then doctors, fireman, scientists and artists?

Yep, made by workers.

Flattery will get you no where.

So when said poorfags rise up, the wealthy deserve to be slaughtered for being being weak, right?

I'm too lazy to go dig up a picture of someone tipping a fedora, but it would be a good illustration of your babby-tier understanding of evolution.

yes I agree. now make an actual argument against communism you waste of oxygen.

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yes I agree. now make an actual argument against communism you waste of oxygen.

I swear the site owners purposely lag this board

I guess it's time to go to bed, nighty-night

Honestly communism might just be an extreme formy of psychotic kleptomania.

they're trying to stop you from shitposting

The tyranny of the majority is something to be opposed at every possible opportunity.
Our species will be far better off when we are rid of it.

*form

Property is theft tho

or don't. whatever you want.

lmao not even Marx could perform the mental gymnastics necessary to believe that bullshit

lmao not even Marx could perform the mental gymnastics necessary to believe that bullshit

Proudhon.
Read a book, nigger.

your head is haunted.

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What's wrong with psychotic kleptomania

Did you ever think that these "Rich, successful, business owners" have power to set the conditions of the new world that people are born under? Thus making it possible to remove natural conditions that otherwise would make it fair?

Like you said, survival of the fittest, right?

If the capitalist can't protect his field or his factory, then tough shit.

u spooked

Last response, I can't take leftist stupidity forever

If the economically succesful decide to prosper at the expense of the unskilled masses, that's their prerogative. I honestly couldn't give a shit if some homeless drug addicts die because they can't get a job: that's just real life. You could have been in the same position as the so called "elite" if you had real contributions to make to society.

As if an army of leftist degenerates would ever actually be able to seize the means of production. You're intellectually and genetically outclassed. In a statist regime like the US you would be wiped out by the military and in an enlightened ancap society you would be crushed by private security forces. Face it, socialism is an unrealistic dream.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Keep pulling them bootstraps, the invisible hand will make you a billionaire for your services to cuckery any day now.

neither do I? we are talking about people that actually contribute to society, which aren't the elites, sorry. that's just not real life.

He implied that they were trying to contribute, but failing.

Rich people inherit there money and are parasites who give nothing and take everything. Genes have very little to do with intelligence and eugenics is rejected by scientists.

You will never become a elite no matter how much you work, you live in a fantasy.

Really made me think.

It's happened several times pal. Crack open a 20th century history book sometime.

Remember when the Spanish peasants in the 30s dragged the landlords out of their mansions and shot them in the fields? Or when the laborers in Russia strung kulaks up from trees? Like you said, that's just real life.

I'd take your accusation of being an unrealistic dreamer a lot more seriously if you were literally anything other than an ancap.

Bye now, classcuck.

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Great concept, terrible execution. Like socialism, really.

Who?

It's a useful tool when autonomy gets in some people's way.

depends on the population
so it's generally shit

Democracy at present is only a form of postfordist self-management as a way to rationally manage the flow of information under Empire. The "law of numbers" has nothing to do with revolutionary praxis and merely functions to externalize power and objectify desire.

I like it and in a communist society it should be established. And with the modern technology it could really work out well

Better than any kind of Autocracy or Monarchy. But even still the Constitutional State sucks.

No its not it doesn't kills the hierarchy only the current one which is replaced by another, albeit more benevolent one. But I do not get to be free, still an underling allowed to do or be as much as the state wants me to.

Man you're so retarded you talk as if you had a private army outside of your house, no dude.
You're poor and in an-retarded-capistan you would still be poor… Jesus christ… you retard.

Not even that but in anarchy why should anyone care about your currency? or currency? Nobody cares. When anarchy happens I hope I live close to you so I can kill you and take your shit for being retarded. smh.
This isn't a video game this is the real world, all I'm physically able to do is valid. Period.

I believe in demos kratos - popular force. That is to say I believe in the direct rule of the armed people. As far as I'm concerned there is no democracy if there is not a rifle in every home. But I agree with

that we shouldn't overly fetishize things like voting on every single thing and socialism should not be reduced to "one man one vote" in production.

But ye, generally armed direct rule of the proletariat as demos kratos is something I feel should be something we can all get behind.

ishygddt

Then as soon as Trump goes the fuck out and a Democrat is in protest the fuck up to change electoral college for vote x vote again…
You want a state then at least make it more fair to you. Force it to be better for you.

Thats what ruling class does and thats why they have most of you all fucked and they benefiting from all that.

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Link?

scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
My bad it was Princeton

its great, we should implement direct democracy on a large scale thru E-democracy

There's nothing more democratic than class war.

Weren't kulaks just skilled farmers though? More like doctors or fire fighters?
Also, are most people here in general agreement that homeless people and the mentally ill should just be left to starve or outright killed?
Seems kind of like the exact same shit that capitalists do.

The endgoal of Commuism is abolishing work and abolishing all class relations, if you still have work you fucked up pretty bad.

What a retarded thing to say

First week here huh?