What should DPRK do to better itself as a society?

Can a small nation reliant on coal exports adopt socialism though?

Drop the personality cult bullshit and let the people have actual elections. 100% state run enterprise is fine as long as the people decide what happens with the proceeds.

Rather than rampant militarism and enriching the Kim dynasty, maybe they'd be able to fucking industrialize for a change.

Not to sound like a liberal, but they could start by actually feeding their people and shutting down their death camps. Seriously, those 100 gorillian claims against the USSR are fucking NOTHING compared to the countless deaths from political imprisonment in North Korea. There's a reason so many people try to escape that place all the time, and why those that do and live to tell about it are so psychologically scarred. It's a human rights nightmare over there.

Redpill me if I'm wrong on any of this, but I doubt I am. The "support the DPRK" crap is just a tankie meme, right?

Set up export some specific goods to other markets (maybe something thats more expensive there)
Find a way out of relying on single large segments of market (diversify production)
Open up more economically to South Korea (but only for very strict trade relations)
Find more partners besides China
Open up specific markets for companies, set up few tightly regulated economic zones (like in China)
Tone down the personality cult from godlike to accomplished leader (also make them more responsible for their actions)

Goddamnit Deng, get the fuck out of here.

World of difference between protesting USA attempts to wipe DPRK off the map, and wholeheartedly endorsing their abuses

...

Tone down on the personality cult a little bit. Be a little bit more chill in general, but I guess that's their culture.

Other than that there nothing much to complain about. They are having a socialist economy which grows and diversify itself every year.

...

Commidity production? They have almost exclusively production for use. The Special Economic Zones and the joint venture firms with China are making up less than 5% of their GDP.

What do you mean by wage labor? No surplus is extracted. Big industry belongs to the centrally planned economy while smaller, local firms are worker controlled cooperatives which produce for use locally.

Sure sounds like something intended to be permanent and not transition to actual fucking communism.

How the fuck are they supposed to transfer to communism when they are a small nation with scarce natural resources and limited fertile soil while being subjected to economic terrorism by the entire rest of the world?

...

If they don't plan to then why bother supporting them at all?

It's not a matter of "planning". They can't just magically abolish scarcity. Right now they are finishing the electrification of the country (with renewable energies btw) and diversify the food production further.

I support them because they are socialist and also fuck imperialism.

Dude, they're authoritarian state capitalism, just like the USSR was before Kruschev liberalized things

Given that you don't live in the DPRK and information about it so so scarce and inaccurate in the English-speaking world, there is almost zero chance that you are able to formulate useful, realistic criticism or advice for the DPRK. Rather than wank off to the idea of enlightened policy changes from within, how about the fucking obvious:
1. End the U.S siege on the DPRK and withdraw all U.S troops from ROK and surrounding territories.
2. Allow the DPRK and ROK to negotiate peace on their own terms.
3. Re-establish fair and beneficial trading relations between Korea and the rest of the world.

There's a state.

I know this is bait, but if you actually think Krushchevs reforms furthered workplace democracy instead if making managers act like capitalists than you are beyond saving.

What could go wrong?

Didn't say Kruschev allowed worker control. I said he liberalized it, that is to say he loosened the state capitalism and allowed some private capitalism in.

Fuck Kruschev

Proving my point.

I don't see anyone refuting the human rights violations via death camps and whatnot, especially not from escapees from the nation itself that have spoken of their firsthand experiences with said camps and the nation itself.

Until someone actually does, your argument is invalid.

All of that shit is made up. Those people are literally paid by the USA to come up with stories. You got BTFO in the last thread.

t. Asian tankie

Empirical proof or GTFO, Juchefag

This, basically

I told you faggots, you got BTFO in the previous thread. There are three DPRK threads up right now (use the fucking catalog). Accumulated links:
rhizzone.net/articles/songbullshit/
38north.org
vngiapaganda.wordpress.com/pro-dprk-propaganda/
reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/1ygskq/is_the_dprk_socialist/
eastsidemarxism.wordpress.com/north-korean-socialism/
reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/1zzeri/how_do_elections_work_in_the_dprk/?st=j4lqicl7&sh=b9f34fe4

If you believe anything you read in the Western media about DPRK without extensive checking, you are a fucking moron. The USA is literally still at war with the DPRK, and has leveled the most sanctions on Earth at it. The Western press can't go a month without making up a story about DPRK and then later quietly redacting it. Remember how much bullshit got published against Jeremy Corbyn? Multiply that by 100 and that's what you get in the Western media's North Korea narrative.

He's right you now. I don't have concrete examples at my disposal right now, but I've watched several videos pointing out massive contradictions in the stories of DPRK defectors. It is not unusual for defectors to make up stories, this happens on both sides.

Basically I remember this girl claiming her mother was publicly executed for watching a Hollywood movie (lmao) but then got tangled up within contradictions later in the story.

You couldn't find more literal examples of fake news.

I bet this faggot supported Yeltsin and the destruction of Russia that followed in his wake. KYS liberal.

25mln people in NK

The atrocities there are so bad, everyone got killed at least 10 times already, and it doesnt stop!.

Bullshit propaganda, all of it.

You just played yourself, Juchefag. North Korea hasn't been truly socialist since Kim Il-Sung died anyway.

OK, fuck off.

Eastern Marxist has other articles about the DPRK on his page, also refusing to read something like that is extremely infantile. Especially in regards to the debunking of the western narrative about Songbun, which was written up by authors who never even set foot in the DPRK and say themselves that their assumption of racism and a caste system is speculation.

That being said, 38North is a literal US-American think tank. Surely that's totally a tankie source? You're being an absolute faggot right now.

You first. I read every single link, and could barely stand the fucking Reddit threads.

All you're saying is that Western liberal organizations have no proof of their claims of North Korea's human rights violations, yet at the same time, there's not a single source you could possibly list that proves they don't commit human rights violations on a regular basis. The tankie sites honestly come off as bearing the same levels of tinfoil hat paranoia as a Nazi revisionist site trying to prove the Holocaust wrong.

These sources aren't what any sane person would call credible. You aren't helping your case.

kys. I bet my fucking ass that the percentage of penal labor is higher in the USA that in North Korea.

cnn.com/2016/11/30/asia/north-korea-prison-camps-new-satellite-images/index.html

Because we can't just click our fingers and turn the world socialist. North Korea has its problems but what is the alternative? Turning into a cheap labour source that is exploited by foreign capital?
Objectively, there is no current left alternative option for North Korea. It's not like overthrowing the regime would lead to full democracy and workers councils. North Korea would quickly become subject to the whims of the USA or outright annexed by China.

Sounds good to me

Ew.

I prefer capitalism with Chinese characteristics to Juche

...

Cybernetics, Son

Google maps has better image quality than these "North Korean concentration camps." The CIA deliberately releases degraded satellite photos to help them make shit up. At the end of the day, you have pictures of a bunch of fucking buildings, and nothing more. Pic related: my ultra-high-quality spy photos of an American concentration camp where they boil prisoners alive (for real, no, seriously, google it).

theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/

Abolish the monarchy.

Become Socialist

Say if they ended the personality cult/monarchy, what would be the effects of that? The way I see it, the people of DPRK need someone to look up to. I'm not as familiar with Juche as I'd like to be, does the "monarch" practice his power, or is he mostly a ceremonial figure? I can imagine it as a single point of failure that could collapse the entire system. If there's anything to admire in Juche, it's the anti-imperialist aspect of it.

Adopt Jean Thiriart's Communitarian Economics.

Kim Jong-Un Un is chairman of the National Defense Comission (Since 2016: State Affairs Commission), which gives him the prerogative to transfer unlimited resources to the military. This was a result of the Songun policy, a reaction to the constant siege they find themselves in. He's also chairman of the Korean Workers Party, so he is in charge of the ideological line, but so far not much changes have been made to Juche since Kim Ill Sung.

The Supreme People's Assembly is getting elected by the people, and appoints the government. The Korean Workers Party has an absolute majority, the is further a Social Democratic Party and a neokonfuzian religious party. You can also run for the Supreme People's Assembly independently, but you have to get nominated by youth organization, trade unions, workers councils or agricultural cooperatives (Dictatorship of the Proletariat). The Supreme People's Assembly also has a Presidium, similar to the Supreme Soviet in the USSR, which runs the day-to-day legislative. Unlike the Supreme Soviet, the People's Assembly is unicameral, but to strengthen communal representation of the people, the Local People's Committee has been created which isn't part of the executive direct part of the executive government.

Don't worry user, I'll write a letter to my representative about it, that'll get them to end the war and negotiate peace right away!

...

I'll keep saying it: Socialism works. It might not always be as fast as capitalist boom periods, but it has constant growth while being completely autarkical and immune to global economic crisis. There is a legit chance we will see South Koreans fleeing into the DPRK in our lifetime, when their extremely alienated late-stage authoritarian capitalism collapses.

Socialism always goes through a tough time since it's always massively boycotted (and North Korea has one of the worst material conditions) but once it breaks through the immediate state of emergency, it evolves productive forces at a a massive speed.

Would be nice if they hadnt renounced communism though.

Again, it's a stupid tour guide who probably meant Eastern Bloc communism. I actually don't care too much about how they name it (Rojava renounced communism as well) but more about what policies they implement. I mean China still adheres to marxist communism, does that make them communists?

In all their books they do mention socialism though, and do make references to dialectical materialism.

Thanks, this is good information.

Where's this clip from? I've seen it posted here a couple of times before.

You really have a boner for that one video clip, don't you.

???
They littterally removed it from their constitution.

youtube.com/watch?v=8QaNA9eSQVE

Best one I ever cut out of a video.

And? They renounced Marxism-Leninism, which is shit. But on the other hand, it's a mere cultural revisionism, economically actual ML states have been far more revisionist than the DPRK. The way I understand it, the Juche Idea isn't contrarian to Marxism-Leninism, but it is rather an expression of Socialism in One Country, which varies and adepts depending on the individual material conditions and cultures. Of course I'd prefer them to be actual ML, but in the end this is makulation, especially in the modern day. Ideologies are not cornflakes packages in which you wrap things.

It's much less offensive than your average Western "Marxist" or "Marxian" opportunists who think they have the real modern update for Marx.

...

…or Luxemburgism

So you are an edgy teenager that supports an authoritarian shithole just because it fights the USA.

Stick the Kims in the Gulag

It really wasn't that long ago that Norks were economically the good korea and south korea was an undeveloped shithole

Why exactly would cybernetics help?

While I hope you're right, doesn't North Korea have pretty severe malnutrition?

Stop being under so many sanctions.

Oh wait.

i honestly don't understand wtf they think they're doing, it's like they want murrica to rape them.

Do you think the US will just leave and abandon their military bases if DPRK drops the act? No, that won't happen. The DPRK will need a way to defend themselves. They're investing in missiles because that's the most effective defence. It's the same tactic used by the Soviet Union. This is why Russia has the best missiles nowadays. The anti-US propaganda is there so the people won't forget the real threat. It's not like the DPRK hasn't requested peace, they have, but the US wouldn't accept.

No, but I don't see how a pointless show of force helps, especially when the show of force regularly backfires and exposes you as having no force at all.

Good for them, i just don't get why there needs to be some grandiose international announcement everytime they dump an ICBM near japan. if their purpose is to suggest to america that they're ready to defend themselves they don't need any of this, alphabet soup will find out by itself.

i'm not saying get cucked by the us, just stop constantly provoking them. they've been doing this for at least a decade.

Allow it's people greater degrees of economic and political freedom. Allow each to see to their own ends by their own means insofar as they aren't directing violence at anyone else.

The Institution of such policies would allow North Koreans opportunities of education and specialisation they now lack en masse. Basically, their government is opressive and awful, and economic freedom is tantamount to a successful and engaged society.

...

well for one thing, it would bring direct democracy to the Norks which is miles and miles better than what they have now

So what they need is some Rothchild banks, Wal-Mart and McDonalds?

Who cares where the money comes from as long as it is made? Surely it is better than starving? There is a model, readily available and widely tested, that will alleviate NorK's material conditions and more. It is based upon the fundamental ideals of individual value and mutual exchange, and practiced throughout the world as we know it, try what governments may to muddle the process.

I'm sure you've all got something of worth to give the world: why sell it for below market value?