Social democracy

Is there any point to social democracy?
I know I know, accelerationism, rosa luxemburg, band-aid on a cancer patient etc. etc.
But isn't social democracy the best form of capitalism when it comes to developing productive forces? AFAIK accelerationism isn't just "making things worse for workers" but also "further mechanization and automation".
I don't. I still believe in revolution.

socdems are just porkies dressed in red, you support them only if in your country at the moment doesn't exist a true communist party.

Not supporting social democracy on Holla Forums is literally the same as alt-right not supporting right-wing conservative parties because they are dodgy on the JQ question.

Can't you guys ever support something as a necessary step? Any revolutions will not be able to work in a globalized world anyway. Change must be gradual.

Most communist parties have been neutered though and are literally red socdems.


Yeah, fuck off. Reform and revolution is the only path I accept, not reform without revolution.

In every country the situation is different, but sure most of the old parties (wich for the most have embraced the so called euro-commjunism) are now practically socdems, but this doesn't meand that there aren't new parties opposing this ones.
kinda weird to hear this from an anarchist

social-fascist spotted

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Building of class consciousness and immediate improvements for working class delivered either by the social democratic parties or trade unions?

You obviously didn't read my first post.

I'll use this thread kthxbai

Question to anyone supporting parliamentarianism: how do you make a party that is both big enough to actually make a difference (let's say 10%) and with a platform that has not been massively watered down to appeal to normalfags? So far we have seen that any communist party engaging in the parliamentarian politics effectively enough to be relevant gets a bad case of parliamentarian cretinism, if not turning into actual socdems.

I'm far from being a succdem but I would always vote for them if it was the only choice there is to help fellow workers, I would rather see Corbyn/Sanders/Mélenchon types in government rather than people such as May who keep screwing the working class, sure it might not answer the underlying contradictions of capital and it probably does delay revolution, but accelerationism to me is the worst form of armchair socialism there is.

I've seen the total opposite, the parties that betrayed the idea of revolution in my country lost all the support from the working class.
Euro-communism destroyed the left and most of the working class doesn't even vote and really hates the socdem left.

That's lesser evilism. You might as well say that you supported Hillary over Drumpf.

dumb shit, some people would like not to die of treatable diseases

Roosevelt was better than any other president but i would never waste one moment of my life defending or supporting social democracy

I was more talking about the process of electoral degeneration that led to the "betrayal".

Oh fuck off you nigger.

Large scale party democracy.

But how do you ensure your mass party doesn't got socdemed?

And social democrats will gladly support the rise of the worst form of capitalism, fascism, if their bourgeois property rights are in danger.
Unironically read Bordiga.

Nothing wrong with socdem. Cannot build socialism without missing the vital step of good ol' socdem, buddy!

It's better than regular capitalism.

the mean of social democracy has change over the year.
Only the blood of Rosa remaine.

Blair, Schroeder, Mitterrand, Renzi and Miller agree.

The Bolsheviks were a parliamentary party tbqh

No. There's a reason the Bolsheviks, KPD, PCd'I, etc. dropped it like a sack of hot shit after it became apparent that it had failed to serve even the most introductory aims of the proletariat against capital and was in fact little more than a bourgeois and conservative force.

Today we have the golden age of social democracy (post-WW2) to gauge just how much social democracy supposedly aids the communist movement and I don't think I need to paint the picture for you to tell you that social democracy has done the exact opposite.

I don't know how any of these people represent social democracy.


Because we live in 1917 and establish a marxist-leninist party and totally win any elections.

ITT we post trainwrecks

When in power
They also had an illegal anti-terrorist force that killed some random french photographer, and have a couple of big cases of corruption.

The aim is not elections. It shouldn't be for anyone calling themselves communist.

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Well, thats was one of the main problems of the Socdems before WW2, the acceptance of Burgeois elections as a way to end capitalism, and implements socialism.
It is impossible and delusional to think that porky will let you do this.
But now is even worse, they have completely rejected the goal of achieving communism (wich Rosa predicted it will happen in "Reform or Revolution"), and when succdems win elections actually nothing really changes, you just have to look at European socialdemocrat historical parties wich used to be marxist, like the Parti socialiste in France, the PSOE in Spain, or the PASOK in Greece.
Socialdemocrats promised you could provide socialism through burgeois democracy, making the people think just with voting with their rule they will let the workers take control of the state.
But nowadays it's not even that, they just do the same shit, and just have a socialist face.

Anyone calling himself a communist should not believe just by reforming the state, with winning elections, you can achieve it.

Read "state and revolution " or " Reform and revolution" as both works show how socialdemocracy is impossible, (and even predicted the rejection of socialism by them)

Sounds cool and all, but I'd rather vote Corbyn than sit at home and wait until Lenin comes up to me and asks "psst, hey kids, wanna do the revolution thing?".

Every party valling itself social-democratic has embraced "third way" neoliberalism and abandoned all pretense of class struggle. I simply see no meaning in tje term anymore. Social Democracy used to simply mean reformist socialism, today's communist parties are what proper socdems used to be.

Reminder: the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie does not need your votes to legitimize it (see pinochet), so don't worry about it either way. u can vote for bernie or jill if u really want to it doesnt harm anyone

They represent your ultimate fate

just like trotkyism and David Horowitz

Why not both?

Corbyn and Sanders offered tangible improvements, or at least the halt of decline. Hillary offered the status quo (i.e. continued decline) and Trump offered things either getting slightly better or a whole lot worse, probably the latter.
Lesser evilism is voting for Blair to keep out Howard (where really, it barely matters overall who you pick.), it's not voting for Wilson '66 to stop Heath.


At least in the case of Blair, he tended towards calling himself a "social-ist", not a social democrat - indeed, he actually added the declaration that Labour are Democratic Socialists to the party membership cards. (So that he could tear out the clause about nationalisation.)


I would go so far as to argue both are - if not necessary - a great simplification of affairs.
SocDems = Good cop, Socialist Revolutionaries = Bad cop. (Well, from a porky perspective - invert from a socialist perspective)
Hand over the healthcare and nobody gets Romanov'd.

Social democracy is good.
Most of the modern "socdems" are nothing more than liberals.

Bruh, Roosevelt was fucking based. The capitalists literally tried to overthrow the US Government because FDR said he wanted to tax the rich at 100%.
And at the end of it all, he got Congress to tax them at 93% anyway.

yes i sure do love stifling revolution and interning the Japanese

still best president america ever had

But the AR is against "free" trade, mass legal immigration, and endless wars, which is why there has been a pivot away from Conservatism TM from Anglin endorsing Corbyn to Spencer endorsing Gabbard.

FDR knocked the kneeecaps off Socialist, Anarchist, and Communist forces in the US.