Stop supporting imperialist collaborators known as Kurds

Sounds a lot like Rojava, m8.

no
my support is irrelevant anyway.
hey yuppie! you can do it Rojava! or hey yuppie! you can do it Assad!

Anything along those lines is irrelevant. What PissPigGrandDad did on the other hand… Physically supporting Rojava. Yeah get fucked Tankie OP, your concept of Rojava is just flawed, I have not seen or read about an autocrat who isn't an asshole.

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actual but ypg all the way. Socialism > capitalism
how is this so hard?

fake news

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Hi Phil Greaves check out PPG's interview with Chapo. He pretty much says that the YPG/J know they're going to get fucked but they don't really have an option but to accept the help

As if Phil would ever watch Chapo Trap House. They're Zionist shills.

"we have no choice but to spread our ass cheeks"

yeah, sure… what else could you do when all you want is ethnic cleansing and decentralized capitalism with liberal social ideals?
better suck that trump cock like a good boy, because what's the alternative? being a syrian kurd and participate in a multicultural antiimperialist societies rebirth? haha, that's silly!

but i don't. i have a brain and actually know something about middle eastern geopolitics

the only kurds who aren't shit are the pkk

you must have been one of those retards who thought the ussr was evil and imperialist

Everyone is a zionist unless you're a tankie

Why do you believe something Richard Spencer wrote in an article?

YPG is literally PKK: Syria edition.

not true at all

SUCK MY DICK

How isn't it true

I remember when I was with YPG… seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember… I… I… I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it… I never want to forget. And then I realized… like I was shot… like I was shot with a diamond… a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God… the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Materialist, dialectical, historical, anti-revisionist, anti-imperialist. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that.

Richard Spencer said it so it's automatically wrong. you have to go back

stop supporting third world warlords

this meme has been debunked over and over again

yeah, just ignore all the assad posting. literally 95% of it is Holla Forums, who for some reason thinks our opinion on the civil war matters enough they need to convince us. Probably because Holla Forums is an insufferable shitfest they like to come here to post. Anyway, just ignore it, they literally talk about their strategy to shill Assad on their discord. protip: ask them to describe anything about The USSR or China. They wont be able to do it, even fundamental tankie stuff like the conflict between Zinoviev and Stalin, They're clueless about. good way to expose them.

Don't use phrases like third world.

Whaa use my preffered national pronoun!

The problem isn't the Kurds right of self-determination (which is understandable after Assad neglected them), but the fact they are occupying territory which belongs legitimately to the Syrian people. I'm not buying the memes about ethnic cleansing, but ethnic displacement does happen, because the Arabs won't see a liberator but another US-backed proxy, they've had their run-ins with moderate beheaders, and that Rojava literally has CIA freely operating on their territory, an entire US base amidst them and American soliders dressing up as YPG justifies the negative sentiment any Syrian, who's country has been under assault by unmasked imperialism, righteously has against them.

The USA realized that ISIS is not an asset anymore, and with the Russian intervention that I'd be only a question of time until Assad emerges victorious. With their backing of the YPG, the US snatches former ISIS territory away from the Syrian government, which is pretty much achieving the US goal, though a little bit more low-key: Balkanization of Syria. Leftists have to draw a line as to how much they want to cooperate with imperialism, and with a literal US base in their territory and taking territories from a country under assault of imperialism is where I draw the line.

Stop supporting neoliberal dictator known as Assad.

this divine right of kings levels of spookiness

I wew every time

Syrian people have a right of self-determination and liberate themselves from imperialist onslaught.

This has been the line of the left since, I don't know, since Marx supported the 1848 revolution in Germany.

Nationhood is a spook and if a nation supports reaction over the revolution it should be invaded.

Unless you think the USSR wasn't justified in putting down fascist Hungarians in 1956.

translation: assad is the manifestation of the will of the people and therefor everyone that isn't an assad lackey is not the people and therefor an imperialist attacking the people

for how else is it so that the PYD is not people exercising self-determination, why does this only apply to assad?

Rojava was an internal colony until they emancipated themselves. Certainly was never self determination for them

Does this right to self-determination and liberation stretch to the Syrian people who revolted against their ultra-authoritarian leader?

Are you intellectually incapable of reading? I said Kurds may as well exercise their right of self-determination, but they are annexing territory which isn't kurdish. That's expansion.

It's very likely that after the war, a new constitution will be decided upon, Russia already drafted a proposal which includes more decentralization (autonomy for Kurds) and more democratic feedback mechanisms. Peace and stability isn't in the interests of the US which wants to balkanize Syria for the prospect for the Qatar-Turkey pipeline. Read up on Mao's primary and secondary contradictions.

Not an argument.

How is that even remotely comparable?

Sure love my moderate, foreign beheaders

Does it extend to the Confederate States of America?

I'm not talking about ISIS, and I think you know this. I was referring to the people who first went out to demonstrate which eventually led to the uprising. Or where they also imperialist for not wanting to live under Assad's torture regime

Nice try Holla Forums

Hum. Sure. Okay, yeah. All the Arab Spring people were imperialists. I'll roll with it.

The point isn't that it's comparable to the Syrian civil war the point is that "self-determination" is not of absolute importance, if anything it is of no importance. What is important is moving closer to socialism and if people don't want to this needs to be corrected by any means necessary.

The "self-determination" of the Hungarians was that they didn't want socialism, rightly the USSR did not tolerate this.

They practice self determination for everyone. Your retarded nationalism is useless if you want that. You think the Kurds under Barzani have self determination? Fuck no, what you want is self determination of the national burgeoise and no one cares about that except you socdem fucks.

Unironically read Lenin.

Rich

You said they are " occupying territory which belongs legitimately to the Syrian people" which you equate with the assad regime. That's the stalinist pathology, people not as tangible human beings, but as The People.

It is certain that they will be ruled by a sectarian mafia which rules through terror. Peace and stability are worthless when they translate into the tranquility of servitude.

Considering the amout of retarded Lenin fans around here and the kind of movements they spawn I will put Lenin very far back at my reading list. Somehow you people seem to believe that a bit of Lenin makes you an expert in geopolitcs.

It's a war and that's their government. What point it is to rebel against the government that's currently holding this mess together? They are free to rebel against Assad in peacetimes.

By being an imperialist asset YPG strengthens the bonds of global capitalism, which included exploitation of resources in the middle east and a genocidal war in Yemen against fishing villages. There is no excuse for that. I've been passionately defending Rojava since the beginning, even when they accepted weapons from the US, but when they have an US base on their territory and deliberately carving up a country which suffered the bloodiest assault of imperialism within the last 20 years is where I draw the line.

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

… is widely regarded as standard literature amongst leftists, no matter if leninist. If don't come up with a better doctrine, I don't think you are entitled to such a big mouth, especially since your doctrine seems to be vulgar opportunism and utilitarianism.

Your doctrine is apparently not having a clue about Syria and deviding the working class along nationalist lines.

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Tankies: Socialism is when you oppose the USA, and the more you oppose the USA, the more socialister it is.

You don't give a shit about the working class currently under assault of imperialism, so don't come at me like that. If there is anybody who has shown a lack of understanding of geopolitics its you who can't even be bothered to read up on the most basic definition of imperialism let alone Maos primary and secondary contradictions.

Being against US supremacy and resource net extraction isn't "dividing the working class along nationalist lines".

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Yeah its just useless and doesnt hhrt capitalism in the slightest.

The whole reason the war is happening is because they rebelled against Assad during peacetime.

You do understand that yes?

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Opposing global capitalism is useless? Are you this delusional? Why do you think we never had a spark of a chance of revolution in the west since 1918? Because imperialism has established a net extraction of wealth which planishes the contradictions of capitalism in the west (Social Imperialism).

Petrodollar recycling, sweatshops, unequal trade, enforced investment protection treaties, interventionist wars, extraction of resources, global capital control, debt slavery through IMF and World Bank, embargos - this is all totally irrelevant and not detrimental to the perpetuation of capitalism according to this woke ultraleft armchair anarchist!

Try getting your information not from the CIA factbook.

The reason for the war was that US wanted a Qatar-Turkey pipeline so Europe is less dependent on Russian exports. It's about fucking with Russia, The Great Game all over again. The so-called liberal rebels (small minority) have been offered amnesty and a new constitution, which they declined and had the USA prop them up not only with weapons but also through foreign mercenaries and islamist.

You know you are fucked when a "leftist politically incorrect" board regurgitates 1:1 Department of State propaganda

What does this refer to in the context of anti-imperialism? I only skipped across On Contradiction once some time ago.

Okay. So if the USA supports the rebellion then it doesn't count.

I see.

Primary contradiction is imperialist exploitation. Basically there is a net wealth extraction into another country, having their surplus extracted by a foreign bourgeoisie. As a result, interests of the local bourgeoisie and the local working class temporarily align in a national struggle for liberation (see: Mao's alliance with Chiang Kai-Shek against Japanese invasion).

Secondary contradictions are the contradictions of capitalism Marx described. Basically after a country was liberated from imperialism contradictions of capitalism lead to class struggle.

Are you really this dense? When the only reason the rebellion exists is because it is in the geopolitical interest of American capitalists, then yes, it "doesn't count" as anti-imperialsm.

Ah, I remember. Thank you.

If by "amnesty and a new constitution" you mean "getting shot or tortured to death" then sure

But it wasn't the only reason

Dude, foreign mercenaries and islamists financed by Saudi-Arabia are not actors in an organic rebellion!

Assad is supported by Russia, so both sides are a form of capitalist imperialism.

forgot to take off shitposting flag

I see, and the draconian human rights abuses of Assad aren't considered reasons either, very interesting.

No one mentioned anti-imperialism, what I said it apparently doesn't count as is a rebellion.

Yes, they are all foreign mercenaries and Islamists financed by Saudi Arabia.

Well considering Assad has granted rebels (even islamists) amnesty or the right to return to their homeland (remember that most of the rebels are foreigners) whenever the SAA took a town I don't have reason to believe that what you autisticly screech is even remotely based on reality.

The point is not dying for the regime that only values you when dying or generating profit for them.

How giving your life for divine rights of kings theories of the legitimacy of the rule of a capitalist dictatorship weakens global capitalism, I don't know. I would prefer to not be a peon in a tankie game of 423895327 dimensional chess.

I don't have the statistic here but someone posted the number of actual foreigners being captured by the SAA.

Are you telling me stuff like Al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, Islamic Front or Jaysh al-Islam aren't islamists propped up by gulf monarchies?

I wonder what it's like to be this naive. Hint: nobody gives a shit about human rights until they become an excuse to freedom bomb countries whose government is in your way.

They are but my point is that it's ridiculous to claim that the entirety of the opposition are either foreign mercenaries or jihadists. Or even that the oppositon is one united force for that matter.

I do.

They're brave freedom fighters just like the boys in Rojava

The reason people pick up arms for the regime is because it promises security, modernity, minority protection and secularism whereas the alternative uses kids and women as human shield and puts up beheading videos on bestgore.com. There is also nothing wrong with YPG fighting ISIS. However it's not okay to just annex the territories that belong to the Syrian state while having CIA running arround.

I tried to explain it to you. It undermines western supramcy by putting a stop to the resource extraction, capital cycles of reconstruction through stuff like Halliburton, weakens the petrodollar, etc. This is all quite obvious.

Yet you are uncritically willing to a pawn in US Deep State 4d chess. If you really want to support Rojava at least do it critically, and don't just be blind to the problem of imperialism and try to keep the bigger picture in your head.

You've shown to care about it pretty selectively. That's the problem with Neocon apologists in the name of "progress", you can't wash your hands in innocence, because it will always be a selective approach with double standards. Yemenites are getting brutally genocided right now, and nobody really cares. To even flirt with Saudi-Arabia at this point is not acceptable.

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I don't understand. Where did I defend Saudi Arabia?

It's a better shot than Assad given he's already proven he isn't able to rule without the region degenerating into civil war.

kys third worldist, the proletariat doesnt need abject poverty to be revolutionary.

You defend everything Rojava does, and they have expressed their wish to cooperate with Saudi-Arabia.

Historical evidence suggests otherwise. It doesn't need absolute poverty but at least an implosion of capitalism like the Great Depression.

Putting up beheading videos on bestgore.com, that really does it. The syrian government does it better, they don't put up videos of what happens in their prisons, modernity doesn't do with public executions, modernity builds hermetically sealed concentration camps that offer plausible deniability to anyone involved.

Also, why do you believe in there being an intrinsic legitimacy to the power of a state, this secular version of the divine right of kings?

All that is quite obvious is that you demand that people should suffer under a capitalist dictatorship because them being a peon in a power play over pipelines should be more important to them than very lives.

The bigger picture being the interests of the russian deep state, that bastion of capitalism that is anti-capitalism because it is anti-america and imperialism that is anti-imperialism because it is not-america.

t. living on neetbux funded by imperialism

>>>/liberalpol/
The real world doesn't work like this.

So dark and edgay.

I do?
And Assad has never had anything to do with Saudi Arabia, no diplomatic relations or trade whatsoever.

Is that why they have set up puppet regimes in Syria and Eastern Ukraine? Just because the US is much better at it doesn't mean Russia isn't imperialist. You at least have to admit that they have imperial ambitions, meaning that them "defending themselves from imperialism" is just a precursor to becoming imperialists themselves.

I know. You are ruled by a sectarian despot, there's an uprising consisting of the fundamentalism that thrives under sectarian despotates and you now have the choice to die for your despot on the battlefield or in one of his prisons.

Yes, let's not support the man who had his country pulled into a civil war by the CIA (arab spring) and has fought against the American / Saudi proxy war in his country for the last 6 years. Instead we should clearly continue to support factions that will further destabilize the middle east!

Are we supposed to feel bad for him or something?

He's a dickhead and he's going to deserve it when he gets Gaddafi'd. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

Russia's imperialism is more Monroe Doctrine-styled than America. They don't actually like the idea of there being a superpower in the world, and all of their "puppet states" as you call them are really just eastern allies that are against American hegemony. Russia wants to secure the liberty of these States from a global power. Their imperialism is only existent to the extent that they try to counteract western imperialism.

I suppose the Viet-Cong where imperialist for receiving funds from America to tackle the the French army then

You mean Japanese ,army not the French one (although after Japan retired they used the American weapons to fight against French occupation (wich actually the US supported see photo)

And although I support primarly the YPG and not Assad, the Viett-Cong were fighting against a foreing imperiaslist power wich was in war with US, Assad forces are not imperialist in their own country, and America is, so the comparision makes no sense.

t. russian psyops agent

Hilariously, the Japanese Empire styled themselves as being anti western imperialism.

thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/myth-of-assad-s-anti-imperialism/

It was anti western imperialist expansion of course, but just beacause they wanted their
part of the cake.
Not because they gave a shit about other Asians , they masacred millions of people in continental Asia, they treated them even worse than western imperialists.
That's why nowadays nearly any non Japanese Asian hates Japan.

Shit are trotskysts supporting seriousely Al-Nusra and the FSA??
The only thing I can agree with that is that article is that Russia is supporting Assad for their own interest.
And also I agree that Assad is not good and certainely is not someone we should praise
But supporting a terrorist isalmic group over him,?? nahh
Assad although a tyrant is one of the most secular rulers in the region, adn Syria was one of the most "advanced" countries in the region.
I hope this is just a thing in this Troskyst organization, and not a thing in all of them.

so if the messanger is the problem here (which isn't spencer who merely wrote an article on something brought up by the source he gave).

why would you believe the denial of anarkiddies aka edgy suckdems and bootlickers of US imperialism like the YPG?

why believe other sources that spread lies like the kuwait incutabor babies?

and why suck their dick when it's anti syrian propaganda with dumbass accusations of gas attacks that have been debunked?

i just googled "ypg, ethnic cleansing" - oh look, the first article linked is the one you mentioned. sounds like well done research, faggot.

Ayy I never said I agreed with the Trots as stated there but Assad's role in Jordan and Lebanon as well as his support for the Gulf War are hardly anti-imperialistic. Weather a nation is secular or advanced has little importance in their often overly aggressive military campaigns.

Why is the left so obsessed with "imperialism"?

Because too many leftists are stuck in the 20th century when "anti-imperialism" meant "pro-USSR".

The Soviet Union supported Syria in the 1970s and before and Ukraine was a Russian ally going back to Soviet times and even before. Russia is on the defensive here, trying to defend long standing allies well the Western imperialists are the offensive to further weaken and destroy Russia.

No the fact that Russia is weak, economically suffering, and on the defensive is why it is not imperialist. Imperialism is defined by expansion to secure profits.

No that isn't implied, defending them from imperialism doesn't mean that they will become imperialist themselves, there could very well be a socialist revolution in Russia or their history could unfold in a number of other ways.

Literally what. The US empire is in a economic crisis and has been slowly shrinking for quite some time, does that also make them non-imperalist? When the British empire was declining, where they a non-empire as well?

The United States economy is still growing the economy is relatively solid and started recovering from the recession years ago.

If you mean after WW2, which is the only relevant point after which they were in a serious decline, then the continued existence of the empire was in effect only a formality as it was no longer really enforceable.

They're liberating territory from ISIS. Now the SDF is majority Arab, they're going into arab regions, setting up democratic councils composed of locals. The YPG has completely left Manbij. The reason they haven't rejoined Syria is because they like the SDF better.

So if an imperialist nation's economy is "growing"(I'm guessing by growth you're referring to GDP), then it's imperialist. If it's shrinking, it cannot be imperialist. So Russia was imperialist until 2015 when it's GDP per capita stopped growing? I mean that's after they annexed Crimea. Either way I'm fairly certain their GDP has started growing again since

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Fucking imperialists

This is not russian imperalism, they are not seeking to change the status quo with force, they are supporting a crucial ally against blatant imperialism and wahhabism

the russians did not impose Bashar on the syrians or anything, they are only defending the legitimate representative of the syrian people from sunni death squads

Don't drag Nico into this faggot

SHE HAS BEEN SEIZED BY THE SYRIAN ARAB ARMY /leftyfag/
I said this without any bad feelings, and I am a leftist myself

you guys out of all people should see that history is repeating itself
one less opposition to america means one less resistor against the global capitalist machinery called imperialism

MUH Human rights are pure bourgeoisie idealist bullshit. It's about structures, it is about the contradictions of capitalism. Bookchinite petty bourgeoisie humanism is a counter revolutionary ideology.

wew

cute

What would tankies have Rojava do? Not take any US aid?

pic unrelated btw

Do you really think the US would fund them if it didn't benefit their capitalist imperialist system?

so they shouldn't take the aid then? Should have the soviets not accepted lend lesse in ww2 because it benefits the US to see a defeated Germany?

the very fact that they receive aid shows what purpose they serve.

does that mean the soviets became a tool for the west when the received aid in ww2?

yes, in a sense, hitler was a thread to their influence, any threat to their influence is fought

no

so what makes the soviet acceptance of aid fine and rovaja's unacceptable?

because hitler was an imperialist himself

this was just a conflict between imperalist forces, this is not the case in syria, this is a war that has been declared on a sovereign nation

US to the Soviets wasn't happening under a gross imbalance of power, the US didn't have bases in the USSR and also wasn't dictating the USSR what to do. Actually the Soviets pissed off the allies pretty much all the time and the race to Berlin was done with already having the Cold War in the back of their heads.

But more importantly, the USSR was fighting against an imperialist power, while Rojava is working against a country which is under assault of imperialism by the same faction which supports them.

There is about everything wrong in that comparison.

*threat

The hole YPG polemics show how aesthetics trumps theory

i love imperialism now can i get a free iphone so i can bash capitalism.

you do realize that the "socialist nationalists" are only having own units because unlike all actually socialist parties their followers aren't organized in the regular armed forces and they're such a petty small opposition party that it's really pathetic how Holla Forums is pretending they'd have any significance?

i hope you like burger :D:D:D

So what should Rojava do then? Not accept any aid and fight under Assad after he abandoned them and all the shit they went through under Assad rule?

hmm… nope. no difference at all. really just a valid equation there. geez, i don't know what to say anymore.

fuck your spelling and idiotism is contagious. lend lease.

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nice imperialist medal of honor we all should get one its only fare.

I LOVE HOW ISRAEL IS ANTI-IMPERIALIST BY OPPOSING RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM

*social nationalists, they are not really socialists, even though they went more to the left over the course of the years. yes i know that, but that doesn't make them any less good, I also liked how they once beat up that neocon bastard Hitchens, they're fine in my book

"Rojava Army"

"Army"

is that kurdish? what does it translate to? cuck?

Rojava is experimenting with real world Libertarian Municipalism, inviting a united left coalition of ans, comms, and socs to take part. They deserve our support. To pretend that Assad, because he claims the title socialist, is somehow the good guy and Rojava are the bad guys is HORSESHIT.

Those american specops are surely commie

the communist parties are critically supporting him, but sure, you can just talk out of your ass instead, it's just filled to the brim with your US delicous yummi yummi cummies

Leave Assad in place…but also support a free Rojava. They are creating a real utopia anti-authoritarian society.

it's not because of his ideology, it's because he is a victim of imperialism

Hurr durr muh US supported leftist kurdfu female fighters is the only true leftist movement, lets help them so they can build more American military bases to defend from Russian-Syrian-Iranian imperialism, slap on dem sanctions for Israeli imperialism, Yemeni wahhabi murder and the petrodollar
Braise apo :DDDD

You know, I can't help but like Rojava, but their cooperation with america and israel bothers me

i'd probably support rojava and even a full break up from syria.
their cuckoldry however absolutely kills it. i hope assad has some chemicals for when he's finished with the islamist scum.

That's literally neo-tankie logic thought. Somehow Chinese or Russian imperialism doesn't count because it isn't America. What I want to know is how can you demonstrate that the YPG is not using the Americans just as much as the Americans are using them? The Mujahideen took American aid too, clearly they weren't just US puppets. The Viet Minh, Soviet Union, and literally every leftist anti-fascist resistance movement of WW2 all received American backing, and clearly didn't serve American interests in the long run. Prove to me that this is not also the case with the YPG even though they have

A) Recieved aid from Russia
B) Fought against US backed FSA militias
C) Fought against a NATO member
D) Worked with the SAA on multiple occasions

Yuri bezmenov was right and the american government is infiltrated and run by the KGB, so now they support global commie revolution

are you telling me that russia is practicing imperialism in syria?

That's exactly what they're doing. Do you honestly think Assad isn't a Russian puppet? They're building pipelines there too.

Rojava does far more than just take US aid.

The syrians themselves elected Assad. Of course they are building pipelines, they are allies, other allies do that too

Wtf I critically support the Third Reich against Anglo-French imperialism now.

did i say hitler was the good guy?

did the kitty?

he implied that i did

1940 french communist party intensifies

I don't have a problem with Russian self determinism, but now they're occupying Non-russian Territory of Poles and Romanians. google russian ethnic cleansing and russian rape and you'll see the red army are no saints. Hitler is supported by the vast majority of Germans, and is the only legitimate leader of the 3rd reich. foreign backed zionists and resistance groups who are "Le so moderate" are cancer and there are mountains of evidence about the funding they're getting from the British and Americans.

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i never said they are leftists, but you don't have to be red to oppose imperialism, even though it is capitalism that drives it

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oh nvmd israeli detected

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I never said you were. What I'm suggesting is that in all the threads we've had about this, nobody has ever been able to provide an argument as to why Assad is better than Rojava apart from the fact that he doesn't work with the Americans.

If we assume that the YPG is totally in the pocket of the US (which is a big assumption given America's past records with groups like the Mujahideen), it is impossible to deny that Assad is a Russian puppet. It's completely ridiculous to believe that Russia, the source of the majority of Assad's military, economic, and diplomatic support doesn't exert any political control over him. He wouldn't even be able to fight the war without Russian help let alone win it. Furthermore it is ridiculous to think that the Russians are spending so much blood and treasure out of the goodness of their hearts, there is clearly an ulterior motive. If this motive isn't economic then it is at least strategic.

All this being the case, then what we have in Syria is little more than two proxies of two different imperial powers going at it. In that situation I'll take a libertarian democratic quasi-socialist Republic over what is essentially a neoliberal hereditary absolute monarchy.

Every time it's asked of you to justify this policy (which was already questionable at its inception), t fails to come out as being more than what said.
reality.gn.apc.org/polemic/imper.htm
Even former tankies call bullshit on it along the same lines of how it appears to an outside observer! It's just baseless bullshit!

the syrian civil started with assads goons shooting at protesters, the fsa before it was filled moderated beheaders, it was people who defected, because of assads despotism

Imperialism has been defined in various threads multiple times. At one point you get too tired to repeat it over and over and over. Read Lenin.

Responses like this are a good example of why Holla Forums need ms to seriously self-criticize its increasingly vulgar attitude towards "identity politics".

Jason, what are you even doing? Holla Forums is for degenerate pornography, not maoist thirdworldism.

sputniknews.com/middleeast/201706201054785630-assad-win-election/

read the article first, then judge

Assad shills eternally BTFO by this post

you sound like a /ptg/ fag

Not surprising really. None of this speaks to the people's preference beyond not wanting to be ruled by Islamists, and it certainly doesn't speak for the ethnicities relegated to non-citizen status.

Grow up. Your feelings don't mean shit, especially if they are going to lead another country to succumb to Islamic fundamentalism and further wars in the middle east..

Hmm let's see:

kill yourself alex

Article 3 stipulates that Islamic jurisprudence shall be a (not the) main source of legislation.[1] The article was later amended to include that the president must be of the Islamic faith.

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You're thinking too hard about this. The logic of current anti-imperialism is basically "Russia is a preferable capitalist state to America, so Russian proxies should be supported over American ones." There is really nothing more to it, however one feels about that claim.

I hate this obsession of liberal leftists of being opposed to grant the Middel Easterners even the tiniest bit of muslim culture.

Meanwhile Marxism was resulting out of the enlightenment, which would be unthinkable without Christian culture.

That claim is retarded on the face of it. In th past, socialists would abstain from taking sides in imperialist conflicts like Eugene Debbs in the First World War. To paraphrase the man himself, "America owns the world and Russia wants it."

America is uniquely bad and Russia used to be socialist, obviously.

It's not. No matter how you look at it, Russian is the correct side in this conflict. If YPG enters a permantent military alliance with the US, the writing on the wall is clear. Its project will be destroyed and discredited.

I am noticing a trend of users who actually argue that imperialism is not a problem or is okay. For very obvious reasons, promoting or apologizing for Zionist nationalism has been banned on Holla Forums for years. As well, promoting reactionary politics under the guise of leftism has also been banned. "Leftists" who do the same for imperialism are just as bad. If the problem persists, I will consider banning those people.

Note: if you have some belief that YPG is engaging in 4D chess or whatever, and you promote them on the basis that they aren't imperialist, I would not consider you to be apologizing for imperialism, and it wouldn't be ban-worthy. But if you are literally arguing that US imperialism is not a problem, that would be ban-worthy.

In WWI, Lenin himself called for the defeat of the Russian government. WWI was a war of many different nascent imperialist states. It was a time before Mutually Assured Destruction and the centralization of global capital in one state.

...

Wasn't the US bases just a rumour though?

what if i argue the us imperialist activites are no worse than the activites of other nations with imperial aspirations

In case you haven't noticed Syria is also capitalist

is this you?

Yes,

Possibly a gray area, but even so, dangerously stupid. You would be arguing that China, Russia, etc. are doing equal harm to the world, meaning they are doing something equivalent to Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria (and countless other destructions in the past) combined. That would be completely delusional. If you think that China or Russia would do equal harm if they were in the position of the USA, then that just seems like basic Marxism to me, even if it's useless hypothesizing.

I'm not going to get heavily into the topic as a mod. Again, if you think YPG is going to somehow maneuver their way out of serving US imperialist interests (IE, you think they will not engage in open warfare with the Syrian government or allow a pipeline from Saudi Arabia), and you argue for them on that basis, that would not be banworthy.

I don't know where we get the meme that Assad equals stability when his rule has led to the most brutal war of the 21st century. Clearly keeping a country stable is not something he's good at.

I'd take US-backed Kurds over Mr. Barrel Bombs any day.

How is Russia preferable in any way to the US? Do you unironically think that they don't have imperialist ambitions of their own?

Russia is in a position of lesser power than the US, and the hope is that Russia will be friendlier to state socialist projects should it occupy a position of real power, as opposed to just an annoyer of the US. Whether this is true remains to be seen.

For a long time America was the lesser power compared to Germany, does this mean that during WW1 the USA was anti-imperialist?
Only that is absolutely and totally retarded. Both of them are simply bourgeoisie dictatorships that will be hostile to socialism worldwide whenever possible.

it won't russian oligarchs have no more reason to be less adverse to communism than a wall street banker

That's a retarded reason to prefer Russia. Imperial Japan was in a weaker position than other empires, so was Italy and arguably even Germany. How strong an imperialist power is is irrelevant, what matters are their policies and intentions. As of this moment Russia is backing ultranationalists in Ukraine (and across Europe, see: LePen), and a neoliberal dictatorship in Syria so that they can maintain oil interests. What a coincidence that Russia's national security interests are so closely linked with Gazprom's business interests.

Also what makes you think that Russia would be amicable to socialist projects? The Soviet Union was barely friendly to anything but retarded Stalinist socdem at the barrel of a gun, what makes you think that the right wing ultranationalist kleptocracy that is modern Russia would give a shit about socialism?

I think it's pretty absurd to support assad or anything non-NATO on the basis of "anti-imperialism". Point to some posts that literally call for supporting imperialism please, or even hint at it

Well, didn't anarchists call for supporting the Triple Entente during WW1 against German imperialism? Maybe the US was anti-imperialist at the time. It doesn't really matter because really-existing anti-imperialism is America vs. not-America (and Russia and proxies in particular).

I don't know, why don't you ask tankies?

no that was just kropotkin, although he contributed a lot to anarchism, it is dishonest to say all anarchists at the time agreed with him on this

But that's not anti-imperialism at all. Russia is an imperialist power.

Also even if literally every anarchist in the world supported the Entente that wouldn't make it any less retarded to take sides in a war between two imperialist powers.

No, hundreds of billions of dollars of US and Saudi support to terrorist mercenaries has led to the war.

This is an example of something I want to ban. Regurgitating meaningless, outdated CIA propaganda buzzwords and giving unequivocal support to US intervention.

Yes Assad dindu nuffin ever and everyone is just revolting because they're paid by the USA.

Explicitly preferring the US backed Kurds is now "supporting imperialism" even though Assad is a neoliberal despot? The DFSNS is not project born out of US interests and the fact is they take support from the US and Russia.

No, Russia is anti-imperialist.

Russia support self-determination for Syrians against American intervention, and is securing its national interest in the region by preventing Europe from becoming less dependent on Russian energy exports, as part of a long strategy of persecuting Russia.

None of this is inconsistent with anti-imperialism because anti-imperialism is anti-Americanism. America is the only Empire.

Similarly, self-determination projects should be opposed on anti-imperialist grounds when they coincide with US national interest, thus the opposition to Rojava.

Another example. Flat-out denial that the Syrian conflict is the result of massive imperialist state aid to Al Qaeda and ISIS. Conflation of "revolt" with Salafi mercenary invasion.

If you are saying you want the Kurds to fight the Syrian government with US support, yes, that is imperialism. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

Government forces closed again the road from Aleppo to Afrin for unknown reasons.

Russia pulls back most of it troops from Kafr Jannah camp in Afrin, only 14 troops left, which may leave soon aswell.

good bye imperialist dogs

youtu.be/HIDi07qQNZk

long live turkmen

youtube.com/watch?v=N9EB_sKPk_I

I can't tell if this is a shitpost or not, but have a (You) anyway for doing it well enough.

Why is Assad the face of Syrian self-determination? Under what circumstances could they revolt against Assad and have that be considered self-determination if the Syrian Civil War doesn't count.

So Putin fighting the war to defend Russia's energy industry. What a champion of the left he is.

So I see.

Right,
So it's anti-imperialist if it's protecting the self-determination of the region unless self-determination coincides with US interests in which case it doesn't matter as opposing the USA is more important than the people of a region having self-determination. Brilliant.

A dual power will come to heads with the established state power eventually, even with the DFSNS preference that it won't. I don't really care if the US or Russia or whomever decides to help them in that process

from what dates was the Aleppo-Afrin road open?

The American national interest involves instability and conflict in Syria as was outlined already. The Syrian people can't revolt against Assad without serving American national interests.

Leftist anti-imperialism is anti-Americanism.

Now you get it.

ebin irony tbh

could've fooled me
also fuck off board owner. the polls show the overwhelming majority of your board supports the YPG. don't try and turn this board into /r/fullcommunism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_Civil_War_barrel_bomb_attacks
all fake right? stop tone policing, socialists are abhorred by the torturous, murderous regime of Assad, and you don't get to make them engage with that on your terms. go do some self reflection.

I know that, and I was pretty enthusiastic for YPG a while ago too. I want to draw the line at open support for imperialism.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_Civil_War_barrel_bomb_attacks
No, just irrelevant. Do you think the Syrian government should use humane bombs instead? Do you think they should just give up and concede all territory to Al Qaeda?

Support for imperialism is a stance, not a tone. And you are just parroting dumb liberal shit.

The Syrian government is not exceptionally tortuous or murderous for a bourgeois state, and it is fairly cozy with the local communist parties.

You are an idiot.

...

did you read any of those? many of them caused huge civilian casualties. barrel bombs are criticized because their indiscriminate use, something the SAA hasn't tried in the least to avoid. since barrel bombs aren't guided, they aren't even aerodynamic, and they're being used in densely populated areas. this sort of indiscrimination undeniably constitutes a warcrime. that is why barrel bombs are criticized.
hahaha. go talk about something you know about.

surely your joking

Yeah instead he should parrot dumb reactionary shit like you.

why is supporting russia's interests (they only care about syria so they can stop pipeline and make more money for gas) a bannable offense,
but supporting the us's interests is bannable

How is anything I said inconsistent with anti-imperialism? America is the only Empire, so anti-imperialism is anti-Americanism. Anti-imperialists should support that which opposes the American national interest and opposes that which helps the American national interest.

Is it necessarily wrong to use barrel bombs against civilian American collaborators for anti-imperialist reasons?

America is the empire and Russia isn't.

Absolutely based.

...

You're going to need to explain for us why a dual power coming to it's natural conclusion, the abolishment of the former state structure, is imperialism. Just because the US is in the position of supporting that for their own selfish reasons doesn't mean that it's intrinsically a bad thing.

only 1% of those killed by barrel bombs were rebel fighters.

.
Now you get it.

this has to be a joke

I was going to respond seriously to you but seeing your second response just reveals you're a trashcan of a human being anyway and it'd be a waste of mental effort.

Why can't expansionism be anti-imperialist? If Russia annexed Syria in order to keep the US and its Jihadist proxies out, why wouldn't that be anti-imperialist? It would thwart the American empire's aspirations in the region.

No there were multiple competing imperialist blocs during world war one and world war two. The United States was an imperialist faction in one of the blocs in both wars. The dynamic changed immediately after world war two. All the old imperialist powers of Western Europe and Japan were completly spent after world war two. It was due to American military support and the formation of NATO as well as American aid with the Marshall plan that prevented Western Europe from being communist in the first place, not that the West is inherently reactionary. The United States took up the role of maintaing the imperialist world order and it became the main global hegemon.

No its much more then that. The United States (and NATO) is the primary force that maintains the global imperialist world order against revolution, and there is no force in sight that looks like it will be capable of replacing the United States as the maintainer of global capitalism, especially as the US has complete naval dominance, the largest military, and the largest economy. Its the United States policies which have crushed revolution in Latin America with operation condor, the bay of pigs, sanctions and coups in Venezuela, in the middle east by supporting every reactionary regime like the Saudis, in southeast asia with the vietnam war, in Africa, etc. United States imperialism is a unique threat.

That and the Tartus naval base.

And there isn't now.

I see.

Assad isn't secular either, they discriminate in favor of Alawite Islam.

This is blatantly retarded. By your logic, why would any bourgeois state try to topple America if it was going to lead to the collapse of capitalism?

Yes, as explained after WW2, the United States became the single country responsible for maintaining world imperialism as Western Europe and Japan were completely spent forces after the defeat of fascism. There may be other countries with imperialist aspirations though.

Stop supporting defeatist collaborators known as Bolsheviks

Osama is a chad

I am not aware that any bourgiosie state is trying to topple America. The Russian bourgeoisie, e.g Putin says that they "want to be friends with America." Actually the Russian bourgeoisie has long aspired to join America in an imperialist alliance, its just that said desire isn't reciprocal. Instead the imperialists seek to continue to attack Russia when it is weak, because the law of capitalism is that the strong (e.g America) imperialistically attack the weaker countries like Russia.

Only in case you have not noticed China and Russia have emerged as major global capitalist powers that have started having imperialist conflicts with the USA in much the same manner as pre-WW2 era imperialist blocs.

This is not the 20th century. It is not just the USA vs. glorious anti-imperialists. We are back to square one of imperialist bloc A vs. imperialist bloc B.

The only thing that isn't lazy about Jason is his fast working and diligent receding hair line.

Nice meme face. Are you an anti-capitalist or not? If you don't recognize that all bourgeois states are killing and torturing people either at home or abroad, why even come here?

"Precision missiles" and "guided strikes" and so on are imperialist propaganda to put a humane face on an immoral act. There is no type of bomb that is moral. Barrel bombs are not uniquely destructive or evil. The war is the crime of the aggressor, and the Syrian government is not the aggressor. The imperialists and their Salafi mercenary armies are the aggressor.

If someone said, "I think Russia and China are engaging in imperialism, and that's good and fine," I would probably want to ban them too.

I don't have to explain it. I want to ban people who literally say that imperialism is okay, good, or not an issue. If you're saying that you support the YPG because you don't think it's imperialist, I disagree at this point, but I don't want to ban you.

Russia and China can't even really be imperialist at the moment because of American global hegemony, anyway.

Care to name a state that is doing this?

this is a paper tiger actually. Hypersonic missiles will instantly sink any above-water naval fleet.

You're proving my point that anti-imperialism is just anti-Americanism for me. If Russia is not going to undermine America's imperial position, which, in your words, would undermine global capitalism, then anti-imperialism is simply a preference for one capitalist state and its proxies over another. Similarly, some groups' self determination is better than others', depending on whose national interests they align with.

I don't know, if you believe some Nazbols, Russia has a grand plan to crash global capitalism through undermining the petrodollar via Arab nationalism.

This is actually a very important point. Russia's imperialist aspiration is essentially to get along with America and cooperate on equal footing. They stand absolutely no chance of becoming an imperialist power on their own.

because
russian intervention into syria is mostly to preserve its market share of gas, how is that not an imperialst reason for an intervention

m8

Russia is preventing the mass extraction of wealth and sabotage of industry in Syria. They're intervening to protect their own material AND strategic interests, but it isn't the Russians who dismantled the factories and shipped the equipment to Turkey, or who are selling Syrian oil at bargain prices to Turkey. Russia literally benefits from political stability in the Middle East. That's not imperialism.

the AEGIS destroyers could likely intercept them,

Another example of something I will probably ban. Attempting to diminish the importance of imperialism and imply that it doesn't matter.

the gas field is in qatar

If it's true that Russia protecting its national interest against America is anti-imperialist, logically, intervening in Syria is anti-imperialist.

Can they, though? They don't have enough power to do more than annoy America. If anything, China helps American imperialism by financing America's military through buying US bonds.

There's nothing wrong with anti-Americanism and opposition to American proxies on moral grounds, but to imply actually-existing anti-imperialism is anything more than that would be delusional.

You can stop trolling any time now.

This is setting a very bad precedent. You can't explain to me why supporting the overthrow of Assad is imperialism besides the fact that america might benefit from it. By that logic we should condemn YPG for fighting ISIS because that helps out american interests. You're going to turn this place into another "leftist" sub reddit with this kind of moderation

They can and are. China is arguably the dominant power in Africa at the moment, they are building bases there and supplying arms to two thirds of African government. They are also engaged in major lucrative trade deals giving them access to African raw materials in exchange for support of certain African governments. It's literally textbook neocolonialism. If that wasn't enough they just opened a base in Djibouti and plan to build more.

Russia still is the de-facto governor of Central Asia and is operating a puppet microstate in Ukraine, not to mention propping up Assad to ensure their economic interests in the energy sector.

Is Russian/Chinese imperialism as widespread or destructive as US imperialism? No. But Japanese imperialism wasn't as widespread or destructive as British Imperialism. That doesn't make Japan in the 30s a righteous force for good. Do you really believe that if Russia or China had the opportunity to become the dominant global power they wouldn't take it?

This is a bad argument because ISIS is an American proxy

comrades!! let us lend our full support to the russian oligarchs in they're struggle for more profi.. anti imperialism

They YPG isn't calling for the overthrow of Assad, of all the groups in the conflict they are literally the only ones that have cooperated with him aside from foreign groups like Hezbollah.

is it? isis has attack the west multiple times and has attacked and nearly destroyed the us puppet government in iraq, (which has allowed iran to exert more influence in iran)

I guess innocent Afghan farmers who take up arms against the Taliban should be ashamed of themselves then. I mean after all they are helping American imperial interests.

I'm well aware of that, but I certainly would not be against it. Rather, they want to oust him through a democratic process instead of violent overthrow. However, in principle I would not at all be against a violent overthrow.

btw, are you going to make a video on this?

I'm not Bat'ko.

fug OK :^(

any jihadi group should be assumed to be an American proxy until proven otherwise, given their history with jihadis.

I don't think that a number even exists to describe the all the dimensions involved in this kind of chess

finally someone who understands and actually has knowledge about this war and history.

How does the Hungarian 1956 flag fit in?

at best isis is just an excuse to sell more weapons

fucking disgrace
how spooked are you? it's not imperialism tricking people into thinking guided strikes are better. a Lunarian would think that targeting combatants is preferable to indiscriminate bombing.
Did I fucking say that? I said Barrel bombs have features that make them dangerous to civilians(unguided, unaerodynamic), and they're being used in a way that is criminal.
This has never been the case in any moral or legal sense ever. I thought you said Zionist apologism was banned? Syria still has to obey the Geneva convention even if "hurr they started it"

youtube.com/watch?v=ApZdvz_n4ro

imagine the terrified inhabitants of the city, just sitting in a hole hoping the bombs wont hit them, some of them are children, most of them non combatants, all for daring to live in a city that responding to his despotism

lmao you are fucking delusional

This doesn't even exist. The farmers prefer Taliban over our government of rapist druglords.

It literally is. America, with its "precision missiles," is killing civilians at a higher rate than the Syrian government ever did.

Now you are being a disingenuous shitposter.

Says who? The imperialists don't obey it. The international courts are never leveled against the world's greatest criminals, only the countries that they are trying to demolish.

Self-defense is a standard component of most legal codes, you are childishly attempting to trivialize it.

turn off your flare. youre like a fucking minecraft admin waving his dick around

youtube.com/watch?v=ApZdvz_n4ro
look how carelessly he subjects and entire city to terror.

I was discussing a rule change. After seeing the bullshit responses, I've decided I will be banning posters who say imperialism is good or not a problem.

It's a video of bombs. Go cry to the liberals and neocons about it.

STOP THE IMPERIALIST COLLABORATORS KNOWN AS THE UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS

good thing noone in this thread has said that

Notice how he refuses to really qualify what that means. He says that supporting the YPG is not a bannable offense, despite the fact that he said they are "imperialist" and supporting imperialism is a bannable offense. Ergo, supporting the YPG could easily become a bannable offense under this guise.

the times the left has been armed by imperialist powers trying to gain something seems to come out as a W for us most of the time.
Also imperialists can shoot themselves in the foot with this shit.
What ever happened to

Hey there, Unruhe, watcha' doing???

its a video explosive being indescrimately dropped on city.
but your okay with because your not in the city, and assad is anti imperialist

I have clarified multiple times. If you think YPG is not imperialist, and you defend it on that basis, it isn't a ban. If you just say imperialism doesn't matter and you want the US forces to topple the Syrian government, that's banworthy.

...

It went out when "Socialism is just the government giving you free healthcare" came in

Is wanting the YPG to oust Assad, be it peacefully as they desire or forcefully, a bannable offense?

How is that guy delusional? It's completely true

no one has said that.
Just so people know This is sort of thing the BO is banning for now.

lmfao

I unironically want demconism to spread throughout the entire middle east and topple every baathist, salafi, shite, or wahabi dictator that stands in their way.

shouldnt have said you support the US in their noble cause to colonize the world.

...

If you are okay with them doing it with US air support, yes. I'm not sure why you ask anyway, since the YPG is still saying (for now) that it has no intention to topple the Syrian government.

You got banned for your whole participation in this thread.

I know you're trying to be provocative, but if that were possible (it's impossible), the whole question of US support to YPG would be irrelevant.

Same here famrade.

BO confirmed for turning into a reddit tankie

this is the most amerifat answer there is just flipped on its head. Whenever I bring up US atrocities they simply say they do it too so its okay.

drone strikes are absolutely war crimes

So really all it's going to take for supporting the YPG to become bannable is for Assad to turn aggressive against them, keeping in mind that Assad made Kurds non-citizens and treated rojava as an internal colony. At least it's not "imperialism" though amiright? :^)

I can dream can´t I?

Jason, how much did you have to pay her to give you the admin account? you thick headed son of a bitch don't even want to understand what people are telling you. not even supporting the USSR has been a core principle of Holla Forums, and now you want to tear up the board and make supporting fucking Assad a mandatory position. You realize by doing this you've basically made Holla Forums incompatible with many anarcho-socialist ideologies?

I guess I have to tread carefully here now.
Its also kind of unfair to not look at it how Kurds would have seen it. They were abandoned by Assad and backed up against the Turkish border. Turkey literally parked tanks behind them in Kobane, didn´t let any Kurds to help and sat there and watched them struggle to defend the city. The YPG are great fighters, the best in the civil war minus the caucus ISIS fighters and maybe the Tiger forces in the SAA, but when youre outnumbered and vastly out gunned (because the ISIS had just gotten some nice shiny new US toys from Iraq) I cannot see how they would not have accepted help from anyone. And beyond that, I am sure airstrikes are appealing because it means less of them have to die. I really hope the YPG can play their 13D chess perfectly and get the left a real win. We need one.

Well people are arguing in favor of American foreign policy so what else I am supposed to think. If you're so appalled at what Assad is doing but then are willing to look past American war crimes and still support American backed rebels then that's even worse, just a blatant double standard.

I think the BO would have to abdicate before people accepted a YPG ban on here. YPG is one of the most popular groups on here after all.

too bad boards aren't democracy and petty tyranny is the name of the game

fuggin christian commies I swear

i dont know how to do that with computer stuff

I imagine people would complain so much as to make the board unusable.

only if you're prepared to pay a hacker a lot of money to steal the account. Jason Unruhe had to save his patreon checks for the last 30 months to be able to nab the account this time. that's why he always complains about being broke.

Somebody please archive this thread if you haven't already

What does this even mean? When worldwide revolution comes, every bourgeois state must be smashed. There's a big difference between that and saying it doesn't matter if the USA subjugates Syria right now.

I've already said I'm not banning it. It's not my job to convince everyone. If YPG's 10 year deal with the USA (and whoever else) goes predictably, and they betray all their principles at the behest of the CIA-and-Turkey carrot-and-stick, we will hopefully take lessons from it. I have. If, by some slim chance, the 4D chess works out, then we can learn from that instead. But in the meantime, this is not going to be a place where it's okay to promote US intervention under a "leftist" facade.

I agree it's awful. The Kurds have got nothing but the shit end of the stick. But like the KRG, if YPG just becomes a pawn in NATO destabilization games, the left has to oppose that.

Then stop equating theoretically supporting SDF against assad as promoting US intervention What should the DFSNS do? Just let Assad conquer them and submit to the same ethnically biased treatment as before?

The US is literally supporting the SDF (which isn't even just the YPG), and has thousands of troops and an airbase in the territory. That's US intervention. If you want to defend the YPG, you should do so while acknowledging reality and recognizing that the US intervention is wrong. I'm being very lenient. This shouldn't be complicated or frustrating for you unless you really do support US intervention.

it means you will ban people who don't support Assad, which is your literal position as you say here

It's worth pointing out that the exact same could be said of Russia
Way to completely dodge my question. I'll ask again, should the SDF just capitulate and the kurds allow themselves to be made into non-citizens again, because that's essentially the only way for them to meet your standards of anti-imperialism.

That was fake news btw. Some little radio from Syria reported it and it was quickly denied by all quarters.

Geopolitics is sci-fi now

We should support ISIS too as anti USA imperialist force. But fuck YPG they are just trying to build real socialism.

The USA openly supports ISIS. How else do you describe this?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2016_Deir_ez-Zor_air_raid#Subsequent_ISIL_attack_on_the_mountain

Yeah because the US totally isn't dropping bombs on them constantly :^)

Yeah thats actually true. But im still not fan of supporting Russian imperialism in middle east.

The coalition has rained down tens of thousands of airstrikes on ISIS for years. In the case of Palmyra they actually helped SAA take back the city with their airstrikes. That was a colossal fuck up but to suggest that the US supports ISIS is YouTube comment tier retarded.

You have shown your pro-Assad bias quite often now. But also that you actually have no clue about Syria too. Fuck off and let discussion flow.

what is this paragraph even about? who cut off the arms? the Kurds? and why?

How are we supposed to trust a BO to judge this fairly when you literally believed a fake news report about a 10 year contract, and seemingly have litigated this entire thread based on that belief?

Subhuman katsap detected.
How does it feel knowing you're not a human being?

What did he mean by this?

Holy shit we officially have a reactionary BO. Soon support for Lenin will be banned.

what a unhuman shitster you are, read some eyewitness statements then

Tankies showing again to be naive faggots.

FUCKING IMPERIALISTS GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Do you have any proof for the US supporting the Venezuelan 2001 coup? All I find is "someone that only had public info gave a report that anyone that only had public info would give, I hate ameriKKKa now"

And the sanctions are only for certain Venezuelan officials. It doesn't affect anyone else, unless you care about how they were going to bring their family with them on a vacation to Miami or some shit.

No Russia is the victim of imperialism today. They are sanctioned, encircled, and being attacked on all multiple fronts.

No everyone knows that the tsardom was backwards and reactionary, not socialist. No doubt due to the backwards nature of the past Russian tsardom, they suffered continuous beatings and invasions from Mongols, Poles, Swedes, French, Germans, Japanese, etc. They were too weak to properly deal with constant and continuous beatings, which of course led to the point of collapse. The socialist industrialization actually made Russia better equiped to defend itself even against the worst invaders, demonstrating supporting socialism and defending Russia from imperialism are not only not incompatible they complement one another. The best way to defend Russia from imperialism today is to remove their reactionary ruling classes and to pursue socialism.

Anti imperialism implies opposition to the sole global imperialist superpower, which in this case happens to be America.

No the best way to defend Russia from imperialism, is for them to become socialist. Defending Russia from imperialism doesn't mean supporting one capitalist regime over another it means just what it says.

i didn't vote for you

And you achieve what through that opposition? Also you seem to have to do a whole lot of imperialism given that its inherent to the capitalist system.

Support the Kurds and its allies on their fight against Syrian Islamic imperialism.

It doesn't even fucking exist any more according to Lenin's definition.

You're also framing this entire debate in a manner that you want it to be - rather than the actual arguments and opinions being presented. People are opposing leftist support for a burgeois autocrat who is currently propped up by a nationalist capitalist regime in Russia, and a Islamist capitalist regime in Iran. Assad's army is reduced to mercenaries and sectarian paramilitaries. He's not some secular hero of the people - he's the cause of this entire war, the defeat of the Islamist rebels will not solve anything.

So USA saving Kobane and reinvigorating the whole Kurdish movement was wrong? How fucking idiotic are you? Oh fuck this whole population and city and let Turkey and ISIS take the win no issue with that. Lets fuck over 40 million opressed people because I have a retarded theory and like to do useless activism. Hurr durr

Fuck you cunt, you're no better than reddit, trying to morph the opinion of the left to your own and if no one likes your shit ideology you try to censor any dissent to make the board look like it agrees with you. This is supposed to be a place of discussion were people are free to ask questions and naturally become leftist. If someone comes here asking why imperialism is bad are you going to ban them for genuinely trying to find out another point of view? How would centrist/liberal be swayed to our cause when our first reaction towards foreign opinions is to ban them?

IMPSOC get out!

[PURE COINCIDENCE INTENSIFIES]

Imperialism is bad kid.

The DFNS is pretty blatantly taking advantage of US foreign policy interests to advance its own (our own) agenda.

If they start turning over their economy to US capital you might have a point, but right now their actions are no different than the USSR's use of lend-lease aid to fight Nazi Germany.

Is the Board Owner in this thread the same person who set up Leftypol years ago? Was there a change in ownership at some point? Because some things here seem a little… off. The forced acceptance of M-L interpretations of imperialism in particular seems awful strange, given how contentious it is among the majority of the left (anarchists and communalists in particular).

Well I can't awnser that in detail but in its early months leftpol was a tankie site, with a few anarkiddies (leftcoms and mutualists appeared latter).
And the board owner used to post, I think (and was quite tank-ish, but just like the board at that moment)

I honestly don't think so, the old BO was a lot more humorous and never took a public stance on any internal leftist issues, let alone said they'd ban disagreement along such lines. I've only been here since November 2014 so I think I missed the early stuff like bunkers and Ismail.

The support for the Kurds against Syria/Russia has been mostly naive (and the condemnations of Russia and Syria overblown and liberal-esque), but I don't think it should be bannable. The Rojava supporters should make more of an effort than "muh barrel bombs" and "Russia and the US are equally bad international actors," though.

Marxism takes precedence over meme shit like Murray "imperialism literally doesn't exist" Bookchin

There is no "tankie" interpretation of imperialism, just the marxist one.

If you use the liberal definition of "everything that's authoritarian" imperialism becomes useless as a concept. Why would you even want to do that?

It should be quite obvious that BO meant to ban people who openly shill for imperialism, not the ones just asking questions. The way it has been handled with Zionists and unironic Asserists before - but you didn't give a shit about that, did you?

As opposed to what?

I think he's referring to the interpretation that the US and Western Europe are the only imperialist forces, not so much arguing that the US (and by extention its intervention in the Middle East among other places) ISN'T imperialist.

Nobody is saying that only western powers can be imperialist, but I whenever I specifically ask to point where Russia is imperialist I'm never getting a proper response, it's always very vague shifting definitions left and right.

I had a anarchist unironically telling me I'm another thread that because the weapons Russia gives Syria are based on a lease contract, Russia is imperialist. Let that sink in for a minute.

*in another thread

Well if imperialism is the net extraction of resources and Russia profits, is that not imperialism?

Because russia totally doesn't have it's own imperialist agenda in places like Syria and Ukraine right?

There is only one imperialist power on Earth right now. It's the west.

Because Russia and China aren't practicing imperialism in africa in elsewhere. Very ebin

Having debt =/= net extraction

You also have to calculate if there is indeed unequal trade occurring. If Russia will bully Syria for that after the war we can talk again. Russia has been petty lax on that towards its allies anyway. Besides that it's such a ridiculously marginal factor compared to the ambitions of the US - building a fucking pipeline to exploit a huge fucking gas field.

Show me examples of imperialism, don't make nebulous implications. It's in the interest of Russia to have an independent Syrian state, not because out of goodness of their heart but because it's in their interest, while the US wants to balkanize it. This is crystal fucking clear. You can't weasel yourself out of that one.

China's extraction of resources in africa. Russia's involvement in Ukraine, Syria, Georgia and elsewhere. Syria is a client state for Russia and it's in their interest to keep it that way, not have it be "free and sovereign". Explain to me why it's not in their interest to have it as their client state

Debt is quite literally a net extraction.

Except you are getting something for it and Russia makes extremely cheap prices for these weapons since Syria is their ally with whom they cooperate. If I'm buying a new Ferrari for 200 dollars, did I suffer a net extraction of wealth?

Syria isn't a client state, they happen to have aligned interests dating back to Soviet times. Most Syrians support Assad, the so-called FSA is a tool which relies mostly on foreign mercenaries and islamists to gather a respectable force. Have you looked at Russias proposal for a new Syrian constitution?

Meanwhile the US wants to literally destroy the Syria state, has actively tried to topple the government with moderate beheaders, allowed NATO states like Turkey to extract oil for dumping prices through ISIS, with the endgoal to use Syria as a transit country for natural gas just so they can fuck with Russias gas exports to Europe. I don't know how anybody with a sane mind can even come to the conclusion that both US and Russia are having the same imperialist goals in Syria.

So given the enormous influence they have both military and economically with Syria, this does not constitute it as a client state even though if it was the US who had this influence it would be? I wew every time.
Most Syrians support a return to peace and the evil they know. This does not mean they think Assad is some great and Noble leader
No, but I've heard quite frequently that they support a federal system akin to DFSNS.
They have the same goals in so far that they want to maintain or expand their influence in the region and the strategic basis they have within syria. Just because the methods they do it with are different does not it doesn't come down to geo-politics in the end

Except you are getting something for it and the US makes extremely cheap prices for these weapons since South Korea is their ally with whom they cooperate. If I'm buying a new Ferrari for 200 dollars, did I suffer a net extraction of wealth?

*does not mean it doesn't

So because there is a power imbalance Syria is automatically a client state? Have the Russians appointed Assad? Do the Russians influence the parliamentary elections? Yes or no?

That's for the Syrian people to decide, not you.

So what's your fucking problem with Russia again?

That's not imperialism. Russia wants an independent Syrian state free from western subversion. Again, I'm not saying they are doing this out of kindness but because it's in their interest. That doesn't mean it's imperialism. What are the US interests in the region again?

Russia has been known to have a policy of self-determination for former NAM states within the SCO. It's in their economic and geopolitical interest to do so at this very moment.

Tell me, what constitutes a client state for you then, and how by that definition would it be applicable to DFSNS but not to the Syrian government?
And those within the DFSNS have decided for the DFSNS as opposed to the Assad government. If you support the people's right to self determination then you should also support the DFSNS
The problem with Russia is the same problem with america, in that they are both capitalist nation-states with their own imperialist interests. Russia does not support a federal system out of the goodness of their hearts. As someone who supports DFSNS, I do not like the possible influence that the US can have them. As an Assad supporter who claims that he wants the people to decide, you should also be skeptical and wary of the influence that Russia might have over Syria. None of this is to mention that the Syrian state itself was a product of Imperialist machinations, and doesn't at all respect ethnicity.
So Russia does not have any economic ties to Syria and would not at all seek to extract resources after this is over? You seriously believe that?

For fucks sake, next you'll be Mexico is coming out ahead because selling shit to burgers nets them more profit.

I mean that redefining imperialism to only be about direct wealth extraction done by Western liberal-democratic states is… not exactly what imperialism is. It can be part of it, but the idea that most states who aren't doing imperialism wouldn't if they had the chance has been proven to be fairly… wrong, historically. As other posters have pointed out, in terms of the middle east Pan-Arabism and Baathism are pretty damned imperialist (in terms of death, they're certainly magnitudes of difference worse than Zionism, fwiw), and the actions of countries like Japan in Asia, Russia through the baltic states, or China in Africa now certainly all count. There's zero point to trying to analyze Western states in a bubble without considering the role of the nation state more generally in imperialist endeavours, regardless of their exact system of government or their economy.

Ba'athism
:DDD

Working with someome for mutual benefits isn't the same as being a puppet, retard

Well said, now as I was saying about those US running dogs the YPG

PKK? More like PKKK
:DDDDD

I don't think anyone is saying imperialism is inherently related to the West or those other characteristics you described. It just happens to be the case that the industrial revolution happened first in Northwestern Europe and which advanced the UK, the USA, France, Germany, etc creating the material conditions for capitalist imperialism to exist.

Capitalist imperialism is not simply defined by intentions and what a country would due if they "had the chance" nor is it defined by ideologies like Pan-Arabism and Baathism but rather it is defined by objective material conditions.

Japan was a weak and backwards country when they were opened up and subjected to unequal treaties by the West. Using loans from foreign finance capitalists and by undergoing industrialization Japan developed into a junior partner in imperialism to Western powers supported by Britain and later Germany. They were an imperialist power - but a junior one to their Western partners. The Russian bourgeoisie today wants to be a junior partner in imperialism to the West as well, but as mentioned here it is questionable if they have a chance of being meaningfully successful imperialists without Western support which they currently don't have.

I thought Assad promised Rojava autonomy for helping them fight ISIS.

aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-to-take-back-arms-from-pkk-pyd-after-daesh-defeat/847017

Welp

He said he was open to decentralisation after the war is over
Honestly when you really look at it, it would be idiotic, nay, suicidal for the YPG to attack Syria especially since they have the backing of Russia
They have a much better chance of achieving what they want by cooperating with Assad

He never did. Assad always went on how he's gonna reclaim all of Syria and that Kurdish autonomy could only be realized when all of Syria agrees to that.
The relationship between Rojava and the government is also pretty shit right now, after the US shot down that Syrian plain near Raqqa and YPG leaders made some anti-Iranian statements.

Generally, just go by judging support for organisations by the extent to which they don't treat people like shit and you'll be golden.

but they're /cute/

How is she smug are you blind?

holy shit
funker530.com/prisoner-sledge-hammer/