HAPPENING: VENEZUELA COUP

No that's just an old clip from Maduro stating if the Bolivarian revolution was dismantled that the Chavistas would take up arms.

What is he doing? Is maduro couping himself so that he can go full socialist?

Modern rightists idolize Pinochet because they don't actually care about human rights.

He's already set up his own militias, even if the military does side with the opposition then they are in for a civil war at least.

Looks like internal security/military is making their move

They also don't realize he ruined the Chilean economy and was an American lapdog

gee I wonder who could be behind this

No more so then Chile did when this happened.

Expect a new American backed government, death camps, kangaroo courts and the like.

...

I don't think the Chavistas have enough support from the people for that. The military was supposed to be the last bastion of support for the regime.

From what photos I've seen of the militias, they are old people armed with FALs, which makes me think they are not going to do anything at all.

Doesn't that just sound like a little slice of heaven?

Please don't make the same mistake Allende made please please please
arm the populace, go fuck those bourgies up

The Venezuelan government hasn't shot civilians, you're an idiot. They grant platform to the opposition which are lynching journalists for not reporting positively about them.

In 5 years proles will realize that having a socdem presidente was better than having a neoliberal dictator.

fuggin at last
no more of this circus and dancing around

people are starving right now tho and there is so little medicine in the country that the number of childrens dying is reaching middle ages %

...

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Please do try and educate yourself on how coups work.

During a coup, the goal is not just to liquidate the government (btw all the socialists left in government are probably going to go before a firing squad soon), but to remove and destroy all organisations that both supported the old regime and could threaten the new one.

Identifying the leadership of the socialist militias would have been a top priority in the planing for this coup attempt.
I would be willing to bet that at the same time that parliament was stormed, the militia leadership were being arrested.
After they have revealed anything of value they know under torture, they will also be liquidated (assuming they have not been already).

Left without leadership or the support of the people.
These socialist militias will almost certainly fail to mobilize.
There will not be a civil war, idiot.

If people are starving in a country that exports food, then socializing food production and distribution would instantly solve the problem.

I'm still torn on what I think about Venezuela, but they fucked up so bad that I can't say I didn't expect this to happen eventually.

you have failed to factor in the fact that this coup is occurring in Latin America.
We aren't on babby mode sweet heart

Erdogan used the coup against him to liquidate the entire Gulenist movement. Maduro could do the same, because they've now supported a terrorist attack on state institutions openly.

All Maduro has to do is survive the day.

It would be deliciously ironic if the neoliberal scheme to ruin the OPEC countries financially instead sparked socialist revolutions.

They have a fuckton support among the poor people. Not as much as during the glorious Chavez days, but it should count for something.
It gets skewered by people with access to social media, because while they studied aboard and know how to use them, it's all virgin lands for the poor.

the reason food is exported in venezuela is mostly due to the fucked up currency value. Basically the army takes forcefully "buys" said food at 1/100 the true price due to the price limits not keeping up with inflation and then going to Columbia to sell it for foreign currency which they then bring back and sell on the black market and then reinvest said money into doing the same scam.

I'm honestly stumped at why venezuela is sticking with the horrid currency system they have right now.

there were a few cases reported but in every instance the cop who did it was prosecuted and investigated by the government.

Didn't Erdogan have a fuckton of support though? Would it even matter? I'm new to this whole coup thing.

Do we support maduro or not? Also could someone give me a quick rundown on venezuela? The rise of chavez, what he did, why the crisis, what maduro did ecc

Because it's profitable for a select group of Chavistas.

I watched a footage, where people were storming the Colombian borders to get food and stuff.
Only the dumbfucks forgot to cut out the flags at the borderposts and the guys who did the storming came from Colombia, who came into Venezuela.
Whatever transpired there may not even be related to food at all.

Well fuck. Maduro's incompetent as hell, but military dictatorship is worse, especially if it's in the pay of the CIA.

It was a fake coup. Since Erdogan is an ally to the West and was even more so back then, no one called it out.

I guess Venezuela is getting tired of being failed socialist experiment #10,243 and wants to have some good old freedom.

...

You sure? Erdogan definitely exploited the aftermath but the Gulenists had means and motive.

Opinion varies. Personally I support Maduro not out of any great love for him but because the opposition is simply pure neolib.

Roots of crisis lie with Chavez. Maduro just continued his policies without any innovations, so when oil prices crashed he was left holding the wreckage.

Problems are as follows:

Overspending

This one is simple. The money that rolled in from the oil boom was spent. None of it was saved for potential hard times ahead. Rather than investing it in a Sovereign Wealth Fund like Norway and capping the amount that could be withdrawn for annual budgets, or stockpiling up on reserves like Saudi Arabia, the Chavistas ran persistently high budget deficits

assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ivfB00Wed9vk/v3/-1x-1.png

Price Controls

They don't work, unless you think fostering crime and a black market are successes. The Chavistas blame an economic war but it's simple supply and demand. If I can buy something at $5 at the government approved price and resell it for 5x on the black market then why would I do anything differently? The muh privileged few who get the goods first get to resell and the poor pay the price. In 2015, overall consumer prices increased by 180 percent; yet food prices, which are subject to price controls, increased by 300 percent. This is a pretty clear demonstration that price controls are not working.

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12750

Currency Controls

This is the reason for the hyperinflation and unfortunately is the least likely to be reformed by the Chavistas as it is a major source of corruption and arbitrage. The official exchange rate, at which the government sold the vast majority of dollars earned from oil sales, was at 6.3 Bolivares Fuertes (Bs.F) per dollar. But a parallel market already existed, and the shortage of dollars at the official rate drove the parallel market sharply upward. At the same time, the higher parallel market price of the dollar increased inflation, because it increases the price of imported goods. And when inflation goes up, more people want to buy dollars, because they see the dollar as something secure that won't lose value to inflation. But this drives the price of the dollar up on the parallel market, which increases inflation even more. This cycle continues, causing an "inflation-depreciation" spiral. In October 2012, inflation was at 18 percent, and the parallel market rate was at 13 percent. By the end of 2015, annual inflation was at 180 percent and the parallel market rate was at 833 percent. The shortages of consumer and other goods also contribute to this spiral, and they have increased with it.

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12750

Perverse Subsidies

But the official exchange rate system is only one way that the government's dollar revenue is lost. Gasoline, even after the recent price increases, is about 6 Bs. per liter – or about one US cent per liter at the SIMADI exchange rate. Electricity and gas are also heavily subsidized. These subsidies cost the government more than 13 percent of GDP. For comparison, the total income tax revenue of the US federal government in 2015 was about 10.6 percent of GDP.

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12750

Note, however, that I do not blame some nebulous "socialism". It's quite obvious that Chavez and Co. were just social democratic populists boosting living standards with an oil bubble that eventually collapsed. Better managed economies such as Bolivia and Ecuador which also subscribed to 21st Century """Socialism""" exist.

A cup of water could fall over in some far-away country and American porkies will be drooling to invade it.

Yeah, money and markets. A little old fashioned centralized planning would fix that right quick.

Most Columbians were getting deported from Venezuela so no idea what you saw there champ ;)
panampost.com/karina-martin/2017/06/14/colombian-attorneys-sue-venezuelan-dictator-maduro-for-crimes-against-humanity/

I would say yes. I think the chavistas would have some military support because after all, Chavez before being president was a general, But i don't know sure. so, maybe?

Supporting Maduro would be like supporting Assad, IMO.

I know how a coup works m8, but they aren't always successful. This is more or less what happened in Spain in 1936, the army attempted a coup and it was stopped by leftist militias, so clearly its possible for them to stop it.

Fuck the CIA, Venezuela has to purge itself of all these parasites.

Probably was Gulenists and not faked but it's a widely held view(mainstream oppo, not tinfoil hat) that he new it was coming, read an article from twitter earlier saying he even knew the date. Tens of thousands were purged within days, the plan was made

Don't think in terms of money. That was not what Maduro and Chavez did wrong. What they did wrong was to not develop the economy at all while expecting to run the entire company with oil revenue. Chavez's social programs won him support with the poor, but that counts for shit when the good times come to an end. Heavy industry is still there during depressions.

Every time.

Who the fuck cares about Maduro or Chavez, what will happen to reggaeton exports?!?!

Who could be behind such a shitpost?

Did you forget the years after that

Not gonna read the whole thread, but is it over? Is this the last nail in the Chavistas' coffin?

I saw a CNN report the other day about out-of-control Venezuelan riot police and saying hyper-dramatically "won't somebody DO something about this?" They fucking knew.

Didn't the riot police shoot dozens of people the other day?

I heard they shot trillions. It's another holodomor I tell you.

I mean, you have no evidence for thinking it's fake other than the fact that you happen to like Maduro…

based

they actually killed the earth's population a million times over, dumb revisionists

Give me literally a single shred of evidence that the riot police weren't shooting protesters en masse two days ago (just like every respectable journalist reported) or shut the fuck up.

I heard that communism almost killed everyone on mars and then the last remaining communist came to Earth. That communist was named Satan and Jesus pledged to the American Constitution to get rid of the demonic communist system.

I wouldn't consider getting bogged down in three years of bloody civil war a successful coup.

Sorry, it was troops, not riot police.

Hardly better.

Just fucking kill all the Chavistas tbqh, they're retards and don't deserve to live after this.

There's a reason it's called the RED planet. And we'll make Earth red too.

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JESUS CHRIST HOW HORRIFYING

Actually Chavez did. Agrobusiness was becoming one of the largest sections of the economy.

2008 then happened and the entire economy imploded and all the investment into diversification fled.

bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40426642

They put "attacks" in quotes.

What the fuck are they even insinuating? That it's under dispute whether it happened or that it somehow doesn't fall under the category of an attack?

Only one died and they opened fire with bean bags and rubber bullets which happens in every riot everywhere.

The western media has a tendency to talk shit when it comes to Venezuela, like they say "Opposition protester killed in protest against Government" but if you actually read the article, you'll find the protester was killed by their own side by accident which happens A LOT.

Also a lot of the time it's the opposition protesters killing people (hell they jsut burnt a bunch of chavistas alive the other day) and the western media will pretend it was the Government that did it again by dancing around with wording. "5 killed in Venezuelan protests" sounds like the Government killed 5 people, but it was the opposition protesters attacking the poor PSUV supporters in the barios killing their community activists and such.

The PSUV and Maduro are fucking dogshit. But the way the western media glorifies the opposition and dances around with inaccurate reporting is fucking annoying.

How likely is this coup to succeed? The militias do exist and I know there is a base of support for Maduro even if it isn't as big as before

Can someone please spoonfeed me the reasons why political leaders are more politically inept than people who have Let's Played Hidden Agenda?

Thank you for the info.

I admit it seems I've been duped by the media. I realize they have a vested interest in overthrowing the Chavistas, but I figured there's no way they could be lying about all these protest deaths. Turns out they weren't lying but they weren't being honest either.

Huehuehuehue, let the games begin comrades

People are dying on both sides. But the western media has a tendency to just dance around WHO is dying.

You have psycho police killing protesters, you have protesters killing eachother (terribly laid out traps for Chavistas or home made weapons misfiring/exploding or throwing a brick that doesn't hit a cop and instead hits and kills another protester) or killing Chavistas, you also have gangs of Chavistas apparently killing people as well but I haven't seen a much evidence for the later one.

One of the problems with reporting on Venezuela, is that the innercity urban areas = Opposition, Rural, poor and indigenous = PSUV. The middle class innercity urban people are going to know english, have computers and shit, so you get the entire narrative from them and hear from no one else (in terms of popular support the PSUV are still the largest party in Venezuela)

It would be like only interviewing people form #Resistance to get an idea what life is like in Trumps America, or interviewing The Tea Party activists to see what life is like under Obama. You literally only get one side in Venezuela.

Venezuelaanalysis covers the crisis from a left wing perspective of both Government support and left opposition support, so it's a somewhat okay source to use.

venezuelanalysis.com/

Is the left opposition a big part of it?

I do feel really bad for the people's situation in Venezuela and I think the PSUV have royally fucked up in a lot of ways, but I just don't want them to get overthrown by capitalists and their thugs.

I hope the countryside rises to help Maduro because as much as he's fucked up having another US puppet will be much worse

Left opposition exists, but neolibs control most of the venezuela opposition.

Marx speed, Maduro-kun.

I know Venezuela isn't socialist, but I'd rather an incompetent succdem government than another neoliberal shill fuckhole, or ancap paradise like Honduras.

KILL KILL KILL

METAL GEAR MAN CALLING FOR REBELLION BASED ON ARTICLE 350 OF THE CONSTITUTION
youtube.com/watch?v=nWb0AiwVXZc

xD

Okay let's cut to the chase, what's the best case scenario for the end game here?

Coup fails, right wing congress closed, new constitution assembly declares a one party state

Good job boys.

Chavez comes back from pretending to be dead and channels the power of Lenin, killing the entire opposition. He then proceeds to create a one party ML state where all neoliberals, reactionaries, and ultra-leftists are executed, and declares war on the US after revealing that he hoarded over 100,000 nukes with the full support of China who turned back to Maoism in a day and the Soviet Union, which is also back again because Putin was just joking.

And then you woke up with cum on your pants.

The coup fails and Maduro gets his head out of his ass and actually cracks down on corruption, lifted price/currency controls, and diversify the economy.

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It's like everything she posts I find objectively reflects poorly on the opposition and yet she keeps posting it in support of them

Sounds like she needs to be liberated.

They weren't as expensive before 2012, poor people could afford them too. Most people have some kind of device that lets them access the internet (free government-provided Canaima laptops and tablets, smartphones that were available at a "huge discount" (official dollar rate), etc.).

But most people from Venezuela that you're going to find in places like this are shut-ins that rarely go outside so they can sleep for 8 hours and shitpost in English for 16 hours.

Why is this being called a coup? Small military uprisings usually happen shortly before a coup, but still.

That's Puerto Rico, m8.

I WONDER WHO IT IS

posadas take me now

Carl is going to have a fucking field day and I'm still conflicted on if I should support them or not. This isn't Allende who wants to establish a form of Communism through democratic means, this is the same as social Democrats that call themselves Socialist.
Help me Anons! You're my only grace!

Why is Holla Forums so hell bent on blindly defending Venezuela's authoritarian government?

It's horrible for PR purposes, it makes you all power hungry tankies in the eyes of normal people, it's a collapsing dictatorship that's wildly unpopular among it's own citizens.

Is Holla Forums just a bunch of power hungry tankies that would prefer Stalinism to the status quo?

People are going around saying it's a false flag attack.

everything is a false flag these days

You must be new here, Holla Forumsyp.

I don't browse Holla Forums.

I'm just wondering why so many autists here keep defending what is a collapsing dictatorship.
Venezuela is a shithole and none of you are doing yourselves any favours by defending it.

reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/6bvush/rsocialism_discusses_venezuela_while_banning_any/

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consider suicide, m8

It's not that authoritarian but it is poorly managed and the system they use just doesn't work because it's too hard to manage.

Gee Holla Forums, does this sound familiar?

As sketchy as the reasons for the coup and rising tensions within Venezuela is, aside from the starvation, food shortages, currency problems, I don't understand why people here blindly defend a dictator who is starving his people, simply out of spite for the USA.

I swear, if this was 1989, Holla Forums would support killing Gorbachev.
If it was the 1930's, Holla Forums would fully support the mass deaths, including gulags, Holodomor, and purges.

You are all so autistic enough to support something even more horrible than capitalism.
If you really are retarded enough to think that starving citizens in Venezuela is better than having a neoliberal, then enjoy remaining a politically impotent movement.

As much as I hate seeing the rich Venezuela citizens bitch on social media, the country is a disaster, and not everything is the result of the USA.

reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/6bvush/rsocialism_discusses_venezuela_while_banning_any/

That shitshow of a thread in r/socialism, where they banned actual citizens from Venezuela, who hate the regime, almost reflects most of Holla Forums.
If the majority of the citizens of Venezuela want to overthrow the regime, would you support them?

Most of you get pretty sensitive to any criticism of Venezuela.

How is capitalism infinitely worse than having a large population of starving citizens with a very low standard of living?

Where will you draw the line and admit that life under a specific capitalist nation is better than any shitty 'communist' regime?

lmao faggot your liberalism is showing

we do that now so whats your point?

There's no shame in admitting that there is no side of the conflict worthy of your support. Best thing to do, rather than waste your time arguing on the behalf of parties you have no love for at the expense of your own values, is spend your time explaining precisely why neither side was worth your time. Make it known how Chavez and crew failed on the most fundamental level to uphold any of the promises that would qualify them as "socialists" and how the forces of the coup, based on historical precedence in the region, is likely to become a right-wing dictatorship.

Who gives a shit what Carl tries to push. His understanding of what socialism is seems to retroactively reverse itself every time he comes to the conclusion that socialism (or at least the most basic tenant of it) is worker ownership of the means of production, falling back into the idea that socialism is "government doing things" whenever his cultish following gets in a fit about how he's using "commie terms."

literally only an american can think this is a bad thing

he won an election that was observed by multiple other nations and deemed legitimate.
are you saying we shouldn't?

Everything will be fine as long as they don't get spooked in the end.

The fake "socialism" of Venezuela needs to fuck off. But if it is to be replaced with USA's "Capitalist Democracy" then they have created the hierarchy again & they have failed themselves. Hard.

What is good Chavez for anyway? All autocrats are better of dead.

I don't think so but if Venezuela takes the Rojava approach that would be better since they have everything there for a good life, they're not in the middle of the fucking desert.

It's 2017 and I still support killing Gorbachev.

Sorry - I don't see that happening. They will more than likely end up with another type of dictatorship.

thats what americans call freedom in the third world

Sad reality but yes. Venezuelans are half-intelligent, half-morons through.

Some of them understand Marxism others just really believe USA is going to fix them. If they were to stay rebellious, defiant to hierarchy to the last of them that would be optimal.

Hope it's not the American's type. That shit most closely resembles monarchy & is very difficult to get rid off since this is a physical universe Might makes Right.

Thank you cat-user

Have you looked into the people opposing Maduro? There is no question in my mind they would be Pinochet-tier.

The only thing to be done is defend the current regime from the most outrageous slander, and try to cultivate some sort of opposition that aren't such blatant porky shills.

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So what's the most realistic outcome here? Is there any way Maduro can stay in power, and if there is, what will he do after this?

They become another American vassal.

What do you think is more convenient in the long run?

The thing is Venezuelans are desperate, they want to live without being so oppressed by their current shitty "socialist"(™) state. It's really not the best time for revolution since forever USA has had it's eyes GAZING into fucking Venezuela because they love it's oil (major oil producer in the world) & for other typical Capitalist(™) interests.

Maybe Maduro stays but the dumbass has to make his state more for "the people" really for "the people" this time & he has to do it now. To calm things down because Venezuelans are not going to pull off a Rojava, the dumbasses will sadly fall into USA's claws.

tbqh only losers give a shit about human rights. Winners have the state and can do whatever they want.

easy as that.

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gas the 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧guarimberos🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
bolivarian war now!

Nice flag

I wonder who could be behind this. Truly it is a mystery.

nazbol is best flag

Neoliberals should be murdered en masse, unconditionally, under any and all circumstances. If it just so happens a muh ebil dictator is doing that, it's a human duty to support him.

Why does the graph ignore fujimori in peru, and stroessner in paraguay?
Also mexico has been periodically hijacked by US imperialism.

back to Holla Forums

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Sit down, shlomo. They're a tribe unto themselves, with a consistent history of inciting disharmony among other groups in order that the tribe gains control of them. That is a problem for any orderly society.

It's also an asset to a disorderly society.

is Holla Forums the political version of the flat earth society?

So whos couping who?

That'd be ancaps.

You wouldn't?

Inb4 it's the Alvardo option: military coup, overthrow PSUV, proclaim true socialism and sort the shit out.

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"right wing death group" tried to incite a revolt against Maduro.

So is it still happening or is it over?
Is maduro still president?

Let's be real here if we're looking at a US backed Regime taking power odds are that entails full on intentional mass killings
That is objectively worse than a shitty succdem state

Still happening. Maduro is el presidente until otherwise noted.

Pretty nervous tbh

Has there been any news?

it's still happening but everything is under control now, the rebel group didn't tried to overtake the government but it's calling to the population to go to the military bases. At this point its just more propaganda.

Ah so this was more an announcement for a revolution?
Do these guys have any history or ties with the populace?
It seems like this is babbys first attempt at insurrection tbh

other than an helicopter throwing granades to the supreme court building (that was this afternoon), no.

Ah so this was more an announcement for a revolution?
kinda
Do these guys have any history or ties with the populace?
this guys are of some kind of special unit of the army, the populace is in fact distanced from the opposition right now which is mainly composed by middle to higher class ppl.

here's the text of the rebel statement:

Yup definitely babbys first insurrection

Textbook "restoring order and constitution" speech. Right wing as fuck, babies first insurrection.

I remember my first coup.

A coup is taking over power from the inside not calling for an armed uprising by the population.

Considering Holla Forums Nazis love Assad, do you think they will come to the defense of Maduro, since it is a Russian aligned state?

Yaaay! I hate tyranny.
YaaaaWHAT

You've been watching too much CNN.
Support for Assad coming from Holla Forums has nothing to do with Russia.

The Maduro defenders are in the small minority. Ba'athism appeals far more to rightwingers, because it is essentially Fascism for Arabs.

Full speech by Oscar Perez (police squad pilot that stole the helicopter to start the coup).

Venezuelans

Dear Brothers,

We speak to you as representatives of the state. We are a coalition of military, police and civil personnel looking for balance and against this criminal government. We do not belong to any political party. We are nationalist, patriots and institutionalists.

This battle is not with the armed forces that are in disagreement, it is, without impunity, against this government. Against tyranny, against the death of innocents who fight for their rights, who fight against hunger, and who fight against the lack of medical supplies and who fight against fanaticism.

This fight is for our lives. It is a fight for the hope we build. This is not revenge, it is justice and our conscience which drivers us towards change. We are using our uniforms in truth and with Jesus Christ who walks with us. It is why we make a call to all Venezuelans from coast to coast and north to south to unite with us and come out to the streets. In Caracas towards Fort Tiuna and in the interior of the country to every military base so that we can find ourselves with our armed forces and together we can recover our loved Venezuela.

Today we are realizing an aerial attack with the goal to return the power to the democratic people and so that we can make our laws work and to re-establish the constitutional order. That is why we adhere to the articles 333 and 350 of our Constitution. We renounce the paramilitaries and return the peace to our Bolivarian people

We urge you to immediately, President Maduro Moros, renounce your presidency along with your entire group and to call General Elections. We have 2 options: Be judged tomorrow by our conscience and our people, to free ourselves from this corrupt government today

We are warriors of god and our mission is to serve the people. Long live Venezuela!

———————————————————————–
youtube.com/watch?v=OYgZxnGflOU

So its a christian thing, and a police backed coup. Bit fash, and I am not sure its has enough support to be Syria 2.0. Also too close to the USA, and too far from anyone else of relevance, so it should be over as soon as the CIA decides who is the lesser evil.

they would defend Maduro by that logic but no, they mostly don't give a shit but they would preffer some 70's, 80's style us backed dictator.

how could factories and tractors and chemical fertilizer plants just fled?
and if there was no such things to begin with, then Chavez didn't do shit

Fel’dman model of expanded reproduction on which Soviet industrialization was based is now almost 100 years old but retards in the backward shitholes are still trying to attract investors and expand agriculture without first building heavy industry and then cry about CIA like little bitches when it all comes crumbling down

I also wonder why they were so naive to completely rely on oil exports when the biggest imperial superpower can pretty much manipulate the oil price and put an embargo on them.

because Chavistas are socdems
really funny thing is that Soviets were forced to sell grain when world prices were low to fund the initial push of their industrialization, while Venezuela had a decade of high oil prices

welfare oil bucks is one hell of a drug for socdems

What's the feldman model?

Good.

Underlying the Fel’dman model is an attempt to use the Marxian reproduction schemas to analyse long-run growth. As a result, there was some modification to the original formulation of the schemas, as Fel’dman abstracted from short-run crises in order to focus on the longer-run problems of capacity growth. In particular, concern with longer-term growth issues allowed him to abstract from shorter-run problems associated with realization of the surplus.
In the Marxian reproduction model, Department 1 produces capital goods for the economy, and Department 2 produces consumption goods. Department 1 provides Department 2 with fixed and circulating capital. In the case of simple reproduction (no growth), this is done in order to maintain existing production levels, in other words, to cover replacement. In the case of expanded reproduction, additional capital needs to be provided in order to enable the economy to expand.

As a result, Fel’dman reformulated the model so that the output of each sector was determined solely by their final products. This meant that sector B not only included all consumption goods but also the capital used in producing those consumption goods.

Thus, starting from Marx’s division, we have arrived at a new division which corresponds, however, to another division, the Marxian simple and expanded reproduction, the ‘production of income’ and ‘the production of capital’.

Sector B produces consumption goods for the economy and also what is needed to replace depreciation of both fixed and circulating capital.
This means that, in the case of simple reproduction, the economy would only need sector B, while the output of sector A is solely aimed at accumulation. So we are dealing with vertically integrated sectors.
Sector A produces capital goods for itself and for any expansion in the consumption goods sector. Fel’dman assumed that, before they are installed, capital goods are malleable and can be installed in either sector. Once the capital is installed, however, it is no longer malleable and cannot, therefore, be shifted between sectors, that is:

The essence of the model lies in the distinction between capital goods used to produce more capital goods and capital goods used in the consumption goods sector, which is embodied in the ratio:

Ik = Ku/Kp

where Ku = capital goods in the producer goods sector
Kp = capital goods in the consumer goods sector
Ik reflects the ‘index of industrialization’.

While Ik is given at any point of time, it will change over time as a result of a changing composition of investment, which was seen as the key policy variable affecting the long-run rate of growth of the economy.
The allocation of the output of sector A between the two types of capital goods is the means by which policy influences the growth rate. The larger the proportion of sector A’s output which is ploughed back into sector A, the higher the subsequent growth rate of the economy will be. However, this results in less of sector A’s output being allocated to sector B, which reduces the economy’s ability to provide consumption goods in the near future. This means that, as a result of the assumption of the full employment of all resources, higher growth rates come at the expense of lower consumption levels.

This illustrates the core proposition of the Fel’dman model, that to increase an economy’s rate of growth, there must be an increase in its level of industrialization. This requires a switch of resources away from the production of capital for consumption goods, in order to augment production of capital for the production of additional capital. As a result, there will be an immediate short-run fall in the production of consumption goods, due to the relative decline of the capital stock of that sector. However, since the economy is now growing at a higher rate of growth, eventually, consumption will attain a higher level than it otherwise would have. The trade-off between consumption and growth is, according to the model, only an issue in the short term.

Contrary to the popular perception that the model advocates growth at the expense of consumption, it is an attempt to describe the conditions necessary to increase the long-run growth of consumption. It is important to note that Fel’dman makes clear, right from the outset of his argument, that he sees increased consumption as the overall goal of economic growth:

Right because the last democratically elected leftist leader in Latin America deposed in a US backed coup turned out so well for everybody. As shirty as Maduro is, there is a pretty good chance of him being replaced with totalitarian terror state like Pinochet. Gross mismanagement is what Maduro is guilty of, but it will pale in comparison to the dictatorial neoliberal catastrophe that is waiting to replace him.

if the people of venezuela let that happen, it's their own damn fault

The people of Venezuela do not exist

very interesting.

of course they do
they are the people that are living within the borders of the state named Venezuela, if the majority support the current government and don't wanna live in a neoliberal hellhole, they will have to act

if they do nothing, they deserve the hellhole that they allowed

Any news?

I wish I believed in the fairytale of "all they gotta do is disagree". That's not how states work.

wew

Chavismo has gone nowhere but down since after the 2006 presidential elections, when the opposition stopped fucking up badly.

On the 2015 parliamentary elections, the opposition got 56.2% of votes.

civil war

but yeah, it's cia funded, we should give up and go to concentration camps voluntarily

GOD SPEED BASED NATIONALIST CHRISTIANS

if you fight, you can cull the rodents, making parliamentary democracy redundant

...

Stopped right there

The progress.

No, you dumb nigger.
They're going to end up fucked if they fight either way.
kys

The kind of stupidity that could only come from Holla Forums.

Why the fuck do you idiots cling to Venezuela? I'm genuinely curious why you people would care about a country who's policies are social democratic and who economy is majority owned by private business owners.

Because the alternative will be much worse.

so spanish civil war was a mistake
they should just let nazi-backed franco seize power without a fight

lmao, kill yourself faggot loser

so spanish civil war was a mistake
they should just let nazi-backed franco seize power without a fight

lmao, kill yourself faggot loser

...

when will this meme die?

also
not even the most rabid leftcom would say that.

Democracy incoming
foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Final VZ leg.pdf

...

No one fucking said that.
The point was they are going to lose regardless.
Secondly, comparing what the Nazis had to the weapons the U.S. can supply is fucking stupid.

lel

I wonder if they send bills to recipients of humanitarian aid?

GET YOUR PAWS OUT OF THE WORLD AMERICA
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

find a shot gun and give yourself an enema, because you're full of shit

Do we have any updoots? Also preferably not Telesur, for some reason it might be slightly bias to one side in this conflict.

nytimes.com/2017/06/28/opinion/venezuela-maduro.html?rref=collection/spotlightcollection/editorials-and-opeds-about-world-news
Oh gee, i wonder if the American news might have an agenda here.

(sameshill)

youtube.com/watch?v=fBwQ40TtCFA

Lads was this real socialism?

I need to get my narrative straight before I start arguing with people on facebook.

I hate tankies like those ITT defending Maduro.

I know your type; skinny little bitches with power fantasies who snitch on people who intimidate them. Been in enough meetings where you see the little dweeb get uncomfortable and next thing you know he's spreading shit about you.

I don't want you people fighting alongside me against the fascists.

Enrique Krauze is a historian, the editor of the literary magazine Letras Libres and the author of “Redeemers: Ideas and Power in Latin America.” This essay was translated by Hank Heifetz from the Spanish.

In a July 2012 article published in Bloomberg, Krauze favored the opening of the Mexican petroleum industry to private investment,[7] as it has been nationalized since 1938. Krauze began expressing his support for liberal politics three decades ago, especially with his polemic article, "Por una democracia sin adjetivos," published in 1984.

...

The working class are showing time and again that they are solidly right-wing in their thinking.

Class consciousness has gone the way of the Dodo thanks to skinny little bitches and rainbow flags that dominate the left now who care more about foreigners than they do about the poor in their own country.

I know all the arguments, that we are all the proletariat because we don't own the means etc. but there is definitely a classic working class and a neo-working class e.g. the middle class, bourgeois precariats. So please don't try and lecture me.

Pretending America is the entire world should be a bannable offense.

I am European.

I cannot speak for other areas so I won't, but if this coup gets popular support then the worldwide left is going to have to do a lot of soul searching.

You should learn what words mean you fucking retard.

Lol what a loaded statement. The US along with its allies have intelligence agencies that specialize in this exact kind of coup. The idea that a successfully backed coup would overturn or even mildly influence our worldview is so naive I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just trolling

Are you sure you're not just spending a bit too much time on the American parts of the internet? It seems to me all the SJW types in the UK are out of touch upper middle class aging journos who have never left their bubble and only know how to mimic America because of it.

Then why are you asking dumb questions?

Ah!

precariat is a growing social class that is enveloping even those who have comfortably middle class backgrounds or upbringings. So mind your language, retard.

"Lower/middle/upper class" of liberal economics =/= bourgeois/proletariat of Marxist economics.

Again learn what words mean you fucking retard.

I concede, I was getting worked up emotionally about all this stuff and it clouded my mind.

Only skinny bitches with noodle arms get emotionally worked up and clouded in their judgment.

No need to be an asshole after someone has realized their wrong.

It's cool dude. Some of the issues you mentioned do need to be addressed but you only need to look at the UK and its growing left to see how perceived currents in world politics can quickly and vastly change.

I'm just forcing a reality check on Mr. alpha male here.

>Class consciousness has gone the way of the Dodo thanks to skinny little bitches and rainbow flags that dominate the left now who care more about foreigners than they do about the poor in their own country

Nice ad hom faggot, that still doesn't make "middle class" a useful distinction to make.

I hope they hang these succdems from trees and throw the bodies in a fucking river

Ideally, the proletariats and the bourgeoisie shouldn't fight each other, but instead should work together for the mutual benefit of each class.

It's fucking depressing. Too many left wingers are too far to the centre and want nothing to do with fighting.

>>>Holla Forums

you mean inviting in US intelligence and military personal?
i guess i know which side of this conflict you're on then.

Why is it that demsocs always fail like this, where as socdems can actually manage countries that they are leading?

The Venezuelan government are completely retarded fuckheads, why does anyone give a shit?

They are socdem. What made you think they are demsoc?

because he's a retarded rose

Their retarded policies of nationalization and attempts to enforce "workplace democracy"?

>>>/liberty/

tbh >>>/christian/ is more to my taste.

well at least they're honest

Can you back this up? I was under the impression they fucked this up.
I believe their retarded policies of nationalisation was not actually doing any nationalisation beyond oil. When factories were closing and workers were seizing factories I seem to recall the state stopping them.

DUMBASS
U
M
B
A
S
S

news.sky.com/story/action-film-star-staged-venezuela-helicopter-attack-on-government-buildings-10930462

What the fuck.

Holy shit its a real movie
m.youtube.com/watch?v=mGjjLOoXDPw

WHAT FUCKING TIMELINE IS THIS

Fuck sake, what even is this timeline

...

investigative police officer was an action film star.. just wew

If this was a Maduro false flag they've reached incompetence I didn't even think was possible

I thought that everyone already knew that, so I didn't think about mentioning it earlier in the thread.

Wait you don't support killing Gorbachev?
How can you call yourself a leftist?

What do you mean?

under neoliberalism people would be starving even more

Makes you THONK!

You're gonna need something to back that up.
What info do you have about the possibility of the next government raising the >75% poverty rate?

Mexico is under control of the drug cartels. If it was US imperialism then why the hell do they still not allow US troops to stomp the drug porkies where they live?

Under neoliberalism companies would just charge them money they don't have for rice and bread.

Who would they sell the rice and bread to, then?

Also, imported rice and imported bread are quickly replacing the locally produced alternatives.

To those who could afford it. The other half of Venezuela.

See
It wouldn't matter if they priced 1kg of rice at 10 billion dollars, because people would just buy rice imported from Colombia or Brazil instead, like they already do.

because neoliberalism always breeds poverty, look at post-Soviet Russia, look at Chile, look at the USA, whereas, until this crisis, the Bolivarian Republic had been lifting people out of poverty out of the past neoliberal government

theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/11/russia-rich-richer-poor-poorer

...

Any random neoliberal would have let the country follow the regional trend, boosted by oil.

The fact that pizza hut man is still around unharmed in a country full of communists such as Russia where 60% of the ppl regret the USSR's end is proof that god isnt real and theres no such thing as justice
Now fuck off u dumb liberal