Considering how Jimmy "Arm The Poor" Dore is getting more radicalised by the minute, we should contact Jimmy Dore and Richard Wolff with letters and, fb messages, tweets, emails, etc. from as many alt accounts as possible, asking them for Richard Wolff to come to his show or vice versa. It would really be the final push for Jimmy Dore to go FULL COMMIE.
Dore:
jimmydorecomedy.com
youtube.com
Wolff:
democracyatwork.info
rdwolff.com
youtube.com
Now this seems like a good idea.
Maybe it'd be best to approach Dore first, don'tcha think?
This isn't related to the [email protected]/* */ video that went up today, is it?
Not really, the video from Batko got me thinking how to radicalise him
YES!!!! Am engaging in Operation: Wolffpack now!
We need to send Jimmy an icepack to cool down first. The man is out for blood and looking for victims.
bump
We need to pin this thread
yes we do. We need a call to arms! /leftypol , make this happen!
I've emailed/posted to both guys, eagerly waiting for responses back. If there was a great confluence of emails to them, they wouldn't be able to ignore it!
That would be great. Or make your own, if we post it on here a bunch of times, enough people are bound to notice, enough for them 2 to notice the emails
Reminder to use the report function to communicate with mods.
speaking of wolff where the fuck is the june update
The Thread got pinned :^D
Mods pls.
Yes, because we need a bunch of mouthbreathing teenage polticos knocking down his door and spamming sick commie memes.
You're doing it wrong user.
no
Can someone post webm mp4?
I'm pretty sure Jimmy has mentioned that he watches Wolff, so it shouldn't be hard.
You mean this?
More
...
...
Arm the poor.
has jimmy dore ever said "arm the poor" ? where does that come from ?
Just got made up because he's becoming radical as fuck.
Jimmy "Proletarian Roar" Dore
Jimmy "Settle the People's Score" Dore
Jimmy "Prepare for Bourgeois Gore" Dore
Jimmy "Forcibly Collectivize Your Store" Dore
This is so fucking beautiful
tanks
Truly our next great project.
Tfw Leftypol persuades Comrade Dore to invite Papa Wolff onto the show, where they plan and decalre the American Socialist coup
he said he follows him on twitter*
Got-dayum!
I didn't think Dore hosted guests on his show though. He just has that woman editor and that annoying liberal co-host, right?
No, he's had Thomas Frank and Michael Wood on at least, probably others as well.
I am not proud of that time of my life, tovarisch. Why do you remind me?
Though I suppose I would have never found Holla Forums otherwise.
We all did some crazy things back then, this girl swears I'm her father but I don't remember nutting in anyone at the time.
Aw, why the unpin?
You're going to make me shoot myself tovarisch, why do you continue?
...
I was one of the early apostles of Doreism.
I am very pleased by how radical he's become.
I used to think he had a lot of potential, but I hadn't imagined he'd be quoting Marx by mid 2017
Dore just slips in there and sends a jet of saliva at that ruddy wombats face, then slips back out.
You have no idea how cathartic that is to watch. My dad fucking loves Alex. I've had to overhear that fucktard bloviate everyday for years.
Tactical espionage action
Stop denying me daddy.
This world isn't ready for pol-pot 2000 520 blaze it faggot
So, is anyone actually going to go through with this?
I hope
There is literally nothing wrong with pre-Holla Forums GamerGate.
i am
Guys.
Just mail him something like
"Hi Jimmy! If you like "Listen Liberal", then you should check out Richard D Wolff who does a lot of talk on socialism. Also, look into having him on your show. Cenk even had him on once, but didn't really appreciate the nuances if what Dr. Wolff had to say"
And send that. I just did.
Keep it simple.
on it
I just sent an email to Jimmy
Also, some leftypol youtubers who have twitter accounts should message Wolff and Jimmy Dore. That way it could get noticed way better.
Do you think that telling Wolff you're from Holla Forums would help, since he already knows about us? We don't know whether Jimmy "One-Man Class War" Dore does.
I never said anything about telling Richard that we're from leftypol.
I know, I'm asking what you would think about doing that. Just putting in a quick, "I'm a Holla Forums user" or something. Would it be too autistic or not? Given that he knows who we are from our sponsorship of his show.
Also,
Come on, lad.
Sorry, I misinterpreted your question. I think it could help, but I dont think its absolutely necessary.
Nah, don't mention Holla Forums.
It's not a biggie if you do, but it's not important. Just recommend Richard Wolff that's the most important part.
...
I meant specifically for the people contacting RDW. I figured it might help since we sponsored that episode of Global Capitalism that RDW did back in January.
merely_pretending.jpeg
It would also help to mention Jimmy Dore to Wolff, focus primary on Dore, but don't forget to mention both
Whatever, you're obviously slow witted or new since nobody else has pointed out anyone doing this for months now.
...
Imageboards have become overrun with cancer, what's left of its traditional culture should be shunned. The name breaks convention anyway since it's over the standard three character length.
Remember to also comment on his vids
>pre/pol/ Gamergate
He's becoming more leftist, not more radical. There is a HUGE difference.
One is capitalist, one is, you know, not.
kek
"they aren't co-ops, they're ah, uh, worker self directed enterprises"
I didn't give a fuck about that. The issue was the mass censorship all over the Web that followed.
All socialists are radicals.
...
Yes, that's why Marx and Engels could refer to things like "bourgeois", "reactionary", or "utopian" socialism.
“Marx and I have fought harder all our lives against the alleged Socialists than against anyone else.” - Engels
Triggered
lmoa
That is an important distinction though. You can own part of a company but not have much say in how it's run. Self-direction is key.
That's not at all the thing that made GG explode. It was the concerted effort across video game forums to suppress discussion about it, and then the "gamers are dead" articles that all came out on the same day, and then the discovery that some of these shithead reporters were colluding together on a mailing list to direct a narrative. Add in multiple false flag operations and constant lies and smears and you get what GG was really about. It was about the dishonesty and corruption of the media.
Maybe not utopian, but bourgeois and reactionary pseudo-socialism still very much exists.
Pseudosocialism dominates. The communist movement barely exists. The center and left-wing of capital nearly absolutely dominates the workers movement.
Yes, then the enterprise itself won't become the abstract capitalist at all. That has never, ever, happened before, like every time or anything like that.
very much so, your memes are cringey.
You forgot Jimmy "Fascists in the trash pits" Dore
Jimmy "Dead Kulaks Galore" Dore
How about responding to the actual argument.
You'd think that Bordiga fetishists would understand the historical usefulness of worker cooperatives. Also,
I can't wait for this meme to die.
What I don't understand is how are you exploiting yourself if you own your labor like in a co-op? Doesn't exploitation require a third party?
Markets and commodity fetishism are the third party.
But you still own your labor, thus no alienation. Have I misunderstood alienation? Is alienation not the great source of misery under capitalism and why it should be done away with?
Your confusion is well-founded. You can't exploit yourself. Retards just like to redefine "exploitation" to mean "competition" because they don't actually understand that capitalism's essence lies in private property, not the market.
You can't "exploit yourself," no matter how much leftcoms insist otherwise.
While you make a good point, you don't fully own your labour in a market system. Instead of having a proper democratic choice in what to do with your labour, you have to bow to the will of the market. Instead of being able to fulfil yourself, truly own your labour through cooperation and planing with others, instead of being forced to conform to the money votes.
So? Production is necessary in order for society to continue existing. The obligation to produce must exist in any society, no matter how it's structured. Replacing market forces with a production plan doesn't remove that obligation, or make it more fair or humane. It's just different.
If you have to make bricks today, would you rather do it because the alternative is jail, or because the alternative is starvation? Ultimately, it doesn't matter, since you have to do it anyway.
The division of labor can't be deliberately constructed in a world of changing technology. Forces very much like market forces will continue to exist even in a planned economy.
you can stop being a fucking entry level spooked non-person anytime
yes, while I am aware of that, the difference is choice. In a market system you have to do the most profitable thing. In a planned economy your voice is at least heard, you have an equal say on how the future will be structured, compared to a market system, where what you plan on doing with your labour is dictated by market forces.
Yeah, distracting from real revolutionary politics, and making class struggle harder because they are involved in the running of the enterprise, how useful!
Also, not a Bordiga fetishist. Great meme, but Bordiga's contribution to left communism is greatly overstated.
Have fun cutting your own wages and vacation days, health insurance benefits and pensions, or going bankrupt!
This guy gets it
You don't own your own labor. You sell your ability to work to the company, your legal part-ownership of the company doesn't change anything. In order for profit to be created, then you either must create more value than you got in wages, or you will be paid with the surplus value created by other enterprises. That or social reproduction breaks down.
Yes. Because your labor is indirectly social, in order for your labor to be socially validated, the products must be stripped of their concrete characteristics (abstracted) and reduced to blind averages (the socially-necessary labor time), exchanged for money (the universal equivalent), entitling you to access to use-values. As a result, our labor confronts as external inescapable imperatives. It is alienated.
Fuck off and read some Marx you tankie cretin.
Yes, but not production as a separate sphere of life, let alone commodity production.
No, in upper-stage communism (when real human history begins) labor becomes self-development, the expression of your own humanity and individuality. It is not an obligation, it is internally motivated.
Not in itself, no, but it is part of the process.
Again, read Marx.
Read the thread. I'm not saying that. I'm taking issue with people who say that worker cooperatives are somehow "self-exploitation" (which isn't a real thing) because "lol markets."
I'm using planning as an example to show that no mode of production is free of: 1) the obligation to produce, and 2) the reality of impersonal economic forces that shape people's lives.
Also, I didn't mention "communism" even once. Kill yourself.
What would you think of a hybrid system, then? Suppose you have a system where markets exist, but the government (however it happens to be structured) has a production plan for certain goods or sectors (perhaps agriculture or housing), which people carry out without expectation of payment (i.e., the traditional planned model)?
As technology and automation improve over time, the planned sector can grow to encompass all the necessities of life, and the market becomes a tool for distributing mostly non-essential goods and services.
Just an idea.
top heh, I'm anarchist as fuck, m8.
And that makes you right because?
How bout responding to the criticisms
In my opinion we should have a democratically planned economy, but there is no need to ban markets outright. By making everything planned, we would make market redundant, but if they still happen on the micro level, there won't be any persecutions or anything like that.
You're ignoring the fact that this difference in value is solely for reinvestment. In theory, it should be no different an amount than would exist under capitalism. The difference is that the money which would have gone to the capitalist as profit now goes to the workers as remuneration. You're also assuming that worker-owned cooperatives would employ wage-labor, as in paying people based on their hours of labor time. While they certainly could do that, there's no reason they couldn't adopt other models, based on production, or perhaps even a flat percentage of proceeds (less reinvestment).
Ah, I think this is the source of a lot of my disagreement with you. I'm not convinced by Marx's labor theory of value. Yes, I know it's "law of value," don't be pedantic. So I never looked at it this way. Did the labor theory of value hold for pre-capitalist simple commodity production as well?
I understand that, but that's the last thing that will happen. There has to be a transitionary period. Work has been an obligation for centuries; it's not going to change in a short enough timescale to be a practical development while we're still struggling against capitalism.
Guys, guys, lets get back on track here.
Am currently making alts and emailing both guys, being polite, short, and to the point. Pitch in plz.
Be more like this guy
You're right. Sorry for going off-topic.
the production as it is is conditioned and enforced by capitalism. the point of communism is to criticise the production of commodities and so on. you seem to think that this criticism is obliged first to produce a "realistic theory of a system of production" withoout applying critique to the why of it,
Ive already sent one, how much emails have you sent to them?
We should also tweet at him on twitter and post youtube comments in his most recent videos about how he should have him on the show and mass upboat those comments.
Let's not overdo it. They probably get a fair bit of mail, but dozens or hundreds of the same message within the span of one day is going to be tiresome or look like spam (or maybe even trolling or harassment) if you're not careful.
Indeed. I'll do that now.
Kek
That wouldn't make nearly as much difference as you think.
Wage-labor=/=hourly pay, wage labor = purchase of labor power.
No, it, it isn't…
No wonder you aren't convinced by it, you don't know what it is.
en.wikipedia.org
If I am understanding what you are trying to say correctly, then yes, the law of value did operate, but in a modified way, as it did not dominate because commodity production did not dominate. It is important to keep in mind that simple commodity never existed as an independent self-reproducing system, it only existed combined with other modes of production..
Capitalism is the only form generalized commodity production can take.
Co-ops and much of anarchism and are an attempt to return to the times of independent producers, which is impossible. Those relations have been negated.
I think it's reasonable to assume, at this point, that Dore is a socialist. What kind do you think he is? Or do you think he's still making up his mind?
I think he is still a Berniebro, but is rapidly becoming a socialist.
Its still worth giving him a push into radleft ideals though
He let a Berniecrat on his show about a month ago slobber all over how great "socialist" programs like the fire department are without a word of correction so I'm not too sure.
HELLO GUYS LET'S DO
NOTHING
:DDD
Just saw Jimmy Dore on Redacted Tonight, and wow, the guy really sneaked around the question if capitalism is to blame for the current afairs. I really lost the respect for that guy.
youtube.com
What do you mean by this?
[I'm not one of the previous socdem faggots]
Actually scratch that, let's post ebin meems.
...
If all history until now has been the history of class conflict, then ideally communism will mean the beginning of the collective humanity unleashed to fulfill its potential.
The fuck did you expect? Even if he is anti-capitalist, he isn't going to say it publicly. It's PR suicide in the US because Americans are conditioned to respond to direct criticism of capitalism with gut feelings of fear and revulsion.
He has flatly stated "I am not a capitalist" before. Whether he meant "I'm not a bourgeois capitalist that takes advantage of people" or he meant "I don't believe in Capitalism" I'm not sure. He has also said that FDR "saved Capitalism," so he's probably of the opinion at least that Capitalism requires socdem to be able to work. He might think, like a socdem, that Capitalism is worth preserving if controlled with certain measures. He also said "Capitalism is eating itself, just like Marx said would happen…Marx was right." This could just mean that he thinks socdem is the answer to the excesses of Capitalism. If that's the case, someone send him a copy of "Reform or Revolution" please. Am reading it now, it's a good critique of socdem and Gradualism.
I like that. Real human history begins once the revolution has taken hold. Now how to bring about that revolution is the real question that many of us differ on I imagine.
hi Phil Greaves
Soon comrades…
27:22 of vid:
mfw
He's gonna do it lads
I wish he'd shut up about this Draft Bernie horseshit. You want a progressive third party that's full of socialists now? Join the fucking Greens.
someone needs to send him a copy of State and Revolution or some IWW literature or something.
please don't let the dream die
nina turner has some god damn TITTAYSSSSSSS
Hmm…
Not a bad idea…
lel, you can see Jimmy keep checking her out
Jesus, he really is doing this shit nonstop.
This is the first time I've ever actually heard her talk and she sounds phony as fuck.
THE DIALECTIC IS IN MOTION
I kind of agree but Jill Stein was a shit candidate who fucked up by saying that Wi-Fi and vaxx shit (yes Reddit blew both of those things way out of proportion but she shouldn't have even said them in the first place) and the Green Party will never ever be able to win cuz of the "HURRR NADER DID BUSH!" meme
Also if we're doing entryism it'd be way easier with a new party that has a left-social democrat wing and a marxist wing rather than one with a green capitalist liberal wing fighting a "let's never mention marx but we're marxists" wing
i don't know how to make webm but on an aggressive progressive a month or so ago he actually said "communism actually works, it's just never been implemented correctly"
Holy shit, Micheal Parenti, why didn't I think of him.
Stein never said dick about vaccines. A while back she actually wrote a book around the topic of vaccines and concluded they were very important. The anti-vax shit was a smear from the very beginning, good job being gullible.
I know one of the co-chairs of the national party and on some days they're such a commie that they seem like a tankie.
People who think a new party will do any better need to fucking get educated on the history of progressive third parties already. The Greens are the only one in the last 30 years out of some ten to fifteen other parties that has a national presence and has actually managed to survive. Stein and Johnson both getting only 1% and 3% of the vote in an election with the two most disliked candidates since they started opinion polling is not a message that the Greens are hopeless and we should do some unproductive sectarian bullshit and sidestep them to clone another party that's the same thing. The message is this: Duverger's Law is an incredible force to be reckoned with and organizing for elected power with any third party is a fool's errand without changing our retarded plurality voting system. We need to be pushing voting reform harder than ever now. The only alternative is to cross your fingers and hope for a cataclysmic event that wipes out the Democrats and replaces them with something else. Good luck.
Change the voting system to overcome Duverger's law and I'll be happy to join socialist equality party or SAlt or even a new party entirely. But until that happens the idea is stupid and so unproductive that it could have easily been cooked up as a false flag operation to keep the left divided and useless.
Kek
That's too bad, cuz if they were that commie every day that might actually do something worth while
Also lmao @ your "it'd be impossible to start a new 3rd party"argument. The whole point of draft bernie is to get bernie to run on a new party ticket so that the next DemExit can be done once and for all. Sanders, unlike Stein or any other "antiestablishment" choice, for better or worse, has quite a personality cult built in around him. If he decided to go to another party he'd take literally half the dems with him and could probably swing enough trumpcucks and so on to vote for him in the next election.
To be fair Bernie will more than likely shill for the Democrats til his heart explodes for whatever reason, idk if he's just on a power trip, senile, or was actually threatened by the Clintons like some people say but he really doesn't seem to give a shit about actually changing anything
Also keep in mind that I said "If we're going to do entryism we might as well do it like this". We really shouldn't even be doing it at all because it's failed over and over in the USA, we should be getting organized and so on but we're all too much of pussy faggot meme lords to do that so you know.
If you want the Greens to get my vote again you should work a lot harder on purging the remaining succdem trash who are still scared to say the word socialism. Stein, in one of her lectures, was asked if she was a socialist (in the Sanders sense) and even with Sanders demystification of the word being so successful still was ultra-reluctant to say she was and than when she did defined it as something even more far removed than Sanders definition.
tl;dr Read marx or get the fuck out of my face bitch. I voted for Stein and for all the Greens running for congress in my state so you can eat my ass with your finger wagging
Do you have a link at least?
its behind the tyt paywall, i'll figure out how to post it one day
That weasel from the Sanders campaign likes to compare his idea to the founding of the Republican party but I have a few better comparisons to think about: the Progressive Parties of Theodore Roosevelt, Henry Wallace, and Robert La Follette.
The Republican Party displaced the Whigs around an issue defining the soul of the entire nation that led to civil war. We don't have anything like that right now. The closest thing is the fight for single-payer health care. I think parties formed around cults of personality are doomed to fail again. Also Bernie can go fuck himself for refusing to confront voter suppression and election fraud, I won't be supporting any new party around him after that shit and I'll be screaming it at the top of my lungs to anyone else considering it.
You honestly just sound butthurt that someone offered a legit critique of the Party. Maybe ya'll are tankies :^)
No I actually totally agree with Stein's tepidness after the eco-socialist plank was ratified. I was there to help ratify it. I am totally sick of this personality cult shit and I hope Stein doesn't run again. She was a little more fiery in her past bids for office but the Greens need someone not afraid to take a forceful and aggressive tone next time. I was actually quite surprised and pleased with Ajama Baraka whenever he had the chance to speak.
But this is all a digression because like I said the number one thing any hopeful third party should be organizing around right now is ballot reform to overcome Duverger's law. This last election should have been the wakeup call.
keep pretending you're a leftist buddy it's hillarious
No workers aligned party will ever have notable success without both better unionizing in the country and stronger ties to union funding to the party in question. Dems are worthless because their only tie to the labor base of the country is a hostage scenario at best, and the Greens are worthless because they'd rather embrace being individualist hippy stereotypes than ever work for and ally with a meaningful working party base.
And yes, this does mean that radically changing and reinvigorating the labor union membership and structure in the country is absolutely a prereq to the third party support you're looking for. The fact that US unions are in a sorry state at the moment is not an excuse to throw your hand in the air and give up.
The Greens literally just yell at you if you try to engage in crit or self-crit with them. They think everything they're doing, especially now that they're "eco-socialist", is perfect and that if you don't vote for or support them you're just a stupid useful idiot.
Literally the only reason I do Green organizing instead of working for some even smaller party is because they passed that socialist plank last summer.
If you and the other socialists who have joined the Greens recently work hard you could probably turn it into a legitimate anti-capitalist vanguard by the next election.
I doubt that's going to happen though and even if it doesn't if ya'll don't remove the overt pacifism plank and replace it with "self-defense" you won't change anything. At most you'd help America turn into a succdem state which is going to happen anyway
THE FUCK? Is he Lenin reincarnate or some shit? Oh my fuck
Why are you all shilling for Wolf, he's utter shit. Co-ops my ass.
What is your criticism for worker cooperatives?
they're not real socialism and they don't fit with my millenarist worldview. also disregard that last post, i suck cocks.
They are completely useless against capital. Socdems were howling for them in Marx's time and not much has changed since then it seems.
I wish more people knew about this. Betting on third parties is a waste of time in any first-past-the-post system.
The best option is trying to establish a true socialist wing in the Democratic party, and maybe even another one in the Republican party, if we're being clever.
Not that that's ever going to happen, because the actual first task is fostering class consciousness as much as possible, which is a long, slow, grueling effort. But it's also absolutely happening, and seems to be doing so at a greater and greater pace.
Are you blind? The vestiges of American social democracy have been withering since the '70s, and they're never coming back.
Fuck you, worker cooperatives are great. They're just not capable of defeating capitalism, and I don't think I've heard anyone seriously argue that they are. They're a way to undermine capitalism, though, and when taken together with reform and revolution, they're an important pillar in any comprehensive socialist movement.
How exactly they undermine capitalism? There have been co-ops for a long time and they are just businesses among others.
Ideologically. They show people–in stark, undeniable terms–how most businesses (i.e., capitalism) deprive them of the fruits of their labor.
Wtf, proles aren't stupid cattle who don't know their own interests. Working a co-op is exactly the same alienating experience as working for a capitalist. You are just exploiting yourself.
I agree.
It's called "false consciousness," famalam.
No, it isn't. Have you worked in one?
Literally impossible.
I don't need to work in one to know how they operate. They produce commodities as all other businesses.
it's not only possible but a fact.
Go back to Reddit anytime, SJW cunts.
Exploitation is the appropriation of someone else's property, product, surplus value, etc. It therefore requires two parties. There's no getting around this. "Exploiting oneself" is an oxymoron.
market forces and commodity fetishism will play the part of the second party
The fact that external economic forces are acting on you does not imply exploitation, in any way. Even if you had planning and production for use, there will be surpluses and shortages that signal producers to make more or less of a certain good. That is not exploitation, it's a feedback signal of inefficiency.
It may be that commodity production via worker cooperatives does lead to a situation where workers still have to work long hours for little pay just to stay competitive–but that's not exploitation. It's something else. You can't just lump the two together. It's ignorant at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.
Central planning would still require people to do things that they don't find personally rewarding, just because they are socially necessary. A market without exploitation simply allows those tasks to be rewarded based on how unpleasant they are.
Think anyone's gonna want to do maintenance on the sewage treatment plant under central planning? No. They'd have to be compelled.
Reward system > compulsion
If the workers are pulling long hours in a fully cooperative system, then there is literally no way for the standard of living to go down. The entire reason that longer work doesn't correlate to increased standard of living for the masses under capitalism is the exploitation of labor.
We work harder so that those at the top can hoard cash and live in gold plated towers. Period.
If the workers have Democratic control over the workplace, and they retain the full value of their labor, then working harder will only ever increase quality of life for the masses.
I agree fully.
Yugo is best flag, btw.
...
bumping for habbening
What happening?
That's not even how Viv came to be.