Vulgar DSA Embarrasses the Left

Maybe he was there, or maybe is not an american, do you know him?
He was critizing the line of the party, so if your only argument is "but they at least do something" then you have nothing to say,

Read Lenin. Tankies really are the worst ultraleftists.

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htm

Where? He just used a bunch of stawmens to call them Liberal. That's not an actual critique.

The fact is that DSA is worse than doing nothing, they are collaborating with the DNC to take away any revolutionary spirit from the working class.
Once the concessions are given, any revolutionary moment will be gone.

How?

Theorical thinking is important if you only shill for reforms then your party is just another socdem, crypto-liberal useless organization
You obviously have a meme understanding of ML
Because only socdems can be appealing.

fuck off

I just said how. DSA are succdems who only endorse Democrats. They refuse to run any socialists into power.
By working with the DNC, DSA wants to reform capitalism, not replace it.

fuck off Holla Forums

>>>Holla Forums

Wow this is how the DSA looks like? I spotted at least 20 people with dyed hair in the first row. Fucking disgusting.

At best they're the left-wing of capital. Really the far-right of the socialist traditions.

Choose one

To be fair, this is the parade of degenerates.

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Uncritically defending Stalin isn't "theoretical thinking", it's just dogmatism.
No, but ultralefts who reject any kind of reformism or Left unity with more moderate Leftists obviously don't read Lenin and, I assume, are Blanquist adventurists.
There is absolutely no Leftist org in the US that's been as popular as the DSA in decades. Why do tankies love failure so much?

I know nothing about that specific party and what their opinions are but at least they didn't go to meme school.

DSA is not a party.

You don't know shit about DSA or their goals.

He would certainly fit in

He is.

Yes, and suggested what was needed was "a real marxist organization leading the charge here". I assume he is part of such an organization, so why didn't they attempt to lead the charge?

"Popularity" isn't a category wether or not you should support them.

You are confusing leninist pragmatism with menshevik opportunism

It doesn't mean that we shouldn't dismantle it. DSA is only a leftist organization in name only. We need to reappropriate the leftist energy into organizations that actually are capable and willing to overthrow capitalism.
DSA is made up of degenerates and liberal middle class whites. They might be the largest organization in decades, but they are the most muh privileged in history.

Lmao why comment on shit you don't actually know anything about? You're like one sentence away from unironically saying "hurr I bet they supported hillary"

This is the 21st century. Most all women dye there hair and millennial women in particular go for weird colors. Seeing as this triggers you so bad you should probably go back to >>>Holla Forums

And yet their numbers are growing and they have a Left Caucus within the org pushing it further to the Left, what would even be the point of running a Socialist candidate for office right now? They're still too small and they're an insanely long way from getting to the point where they could do such a thing, but they're far closer then any other group in the US by far, it's like you want it to be 1917 tomorrow, but we're not even at 1905. You need to get your head out of your ass.

wtf they fuckin cussed

He is probably a member of SAlt. They attempted to march with DSA but they were rejected by the DSA NYC Pride caucus.

(DSA Chicago here. I think they should have let SAlt march, but idc.)

I mean ultra the exact way Lenin does, someone who puts an notion of Idealist theoretical purity over the reality of material conditions, anti-revisionists are some of the worst ultras the Left has to deal with by a longshot.

So you're an FBI agent?

I doubt he's a trot.

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I don't but that is what he said.

Some SAlt chapters are really fucking bad and there seems to be some tension between them and some DSA chapters.

This is what it looks like when Holla Forums tries to falseflag.

Fuck off, liberal.

Yeah, every city is different. Trots, and vanguard organizations in general have trouble playing with others.
In some cities, the ISO, SAlt, and PSL try to outmaneuver their comrades when they have left unity events. And chapters always try to steal from each other. This shady business just makes the left weaker.

And yet you want a Leftist party that's finding success and has the potential to radicalize even further to dismantle itself. You're either a cop or you're just doing a cop's job right now, either way you should kill yourself retard.

If you're in the US it is.

wtf i'm a reactionary now

I saw socialists march in pride in 2012 in NYC.

Hi Holla Forums.

They've run explicitly socialist candidates (and won) in state and local races. What have you done?

You are being delusional if you think this is appealing to anybody and that they are not making a complete fool of themselves.

These guys are Holla Forumss wet dream. Keep defending reformist SJWs, this will surely get the left somewhere.

Fuck off.

The dems are not a leftist party and they are actively resisting any attempts to radicalize or move the party left. They are hoping to stay squarely in the center and survive on a wave of anti-republican sentiment. You're literally shilling for a cynical capitalist centrist party that doesn't even pretend to be left-wing anymore and calling yourself a leftist. Kill yourself shill.

Uncritically condemn him is just refusing the historical experience of socialism.
Dogmatism is just a buzzword.
If the only goal that this moderates wants to achieve is capitalism with a human face then there is no purpose in allying with them
I'm not an american so i don't know the situation of the left there, but i still don't see the problem in a critique of a party. As i said before "But at least they do something" is not an argument.

There were and there are demsoc in my country too and i can tell that there is no actual difference.

you can stop now, Holla Forums

Socialist parties march at pride every year. OP is either Holla Forums or a teenager who thinks anything less then a Stalinist vanguard waging protracted people's war from the jungles is all "liberalism".

I know you used to be a Holla Forumsyp or something but you need to lurk more.

There really isn't. The only DemSoc that was more of less socialistic was Allende. DemSoc nowadays just means a little higher taxes, and a little more minimum wage than the mainstream SocDems.

Funny how everybody doesn't want to pander to insane burger left is automatically Holla Forums.

I don't see how they're making fools of themselves. Just because you don't find it attractive doesn't mean other people don't. Also, maybe they color their hair the way they like it rather than trying to conform to the preferences of every pathetic faggot on the internet. >>>Holla Forums

What does this have to do with the DSA? Under Michael Harrington the group, it's not a party by the way, was pretty anti-communist, but since Occupy they've had tons of young people join, and the org has shifted further and further to the Left. You're talking out of your ass.

DSA are not the dems. kys

Nice strawmen faggot. Gay pride™ has nothing to do with socialism.

DSA literally denounced Karl Marx in their manifesto. Why would I support an organization that literally denounces something in what I believe? I can as well vote for Hillary

Also, Harrington is dead. And most of the old leadership is stepping aside as younger more radical organizers are taking leadership positions.

DSA refused to condemn Hillary Clinton in 2016. By silently supporting her, they condemned themselves as just another faction within the DNC.

DSA will never shift to the left. They will never embrace a marxist critique of society. They will continue with their Michael Harrington and Robert Reich reformism.

What are you even talking about?

>>>Holla Forums
Go back until you fully reach adulthood jesus christ.

I know that retard. I was talking about the Democrats, because that's the actual political PARTY that's in question here

Then what leftist party were you talking about, because the DSA is not a party

That will take another 30 years to happen. The biggest threat is the newest members. They are all liberal SJWs who consider supporting Zionist Uncle Bernie as a revolutionary act. They have no political education, and the Harringtonians are not the correct source for class consciousness.

forgot to take my shit-posting flag off.

You are in denial. There is nothing wrong with dyed hair per se, but you are implying there is only one way to do (the Big Red style with the "problematic" glasses). Face it, you can dye your hair and still be cool, but they deliberately chose to go for the left-liberal style. They will never be taken seriously by working class people or by any voters, nobody wants to be arround these people, they are cringey, have no humor and are hopelessly idealistic.

Since you are reacting overly emotional to this, I assume this is the general standard of the American left. Let me tell you that in plenty of countries the left doesn't look like that, and isn't so intolerable obnoxious.

No. It's what Stalinist do.

It's not, they're Social Democrats the same way Marx, Lenin, Luxembourg, and Kautsky, before he went renegade, were. They want Communism.

When has a single critique been mounted in this enormous meme of a thread? This is like one huge shitpost, it's like a parody of how tankies think.

no joke, it's probably the same maoist flagposter that was posting all sorts of anti-gay shit about a week ago

if you're same one i'm thinking of you were literally spouting burger Christian fundie propaganda against gays.

Pic in OP isn't even socialism. It's liberal idpol.

No, this thread's definitely about DSA, you're a little confused friend :^)

Pic related is pure revisionism, Ubisoft Karl Marx tier.

In debates the DSA is always afraid of mentioning Karl Marx, they sometimes even openly say that they don't have him as a main influence anymore, and their manifesto has mostly RadFems and SecDems as sources

That was made by one guy in one chapter, three years ago. Post more recent memes, or DSA events.

youtube.com/watch?v=mzhVLRbbvVA&t=8s

You do realize that "Social Democrat" before 1918 was just another word for socialist?

Is that why I keep seeing horrendous posts by ancom flags? Thanks for the falseflagging, jackass.

It's a Gay Pride march you retard, this is what everyone looks like there.

Your claim was that they "reject Marx in their manifesto", that suggests they took time to actually denounce him, instead what you posted was an image macro they made to explain who Marx is in simple unthreatening terms to a normie. This is a good thing btw.

There is no left-liberal style. You're just being a petty faggot. Judging people purely on an aesthetic basis is retarded. Then again I guess this is the level of unironic Maotists.

I feel sorry for you burgers

Yes, like the DSA, now you're catching on!

proofs?

Also, I think it's hilarious when idiots like you try to use one chapter's manifesto or this and that to smear the DSA. The whole goal is to de-stimigatize socialism in America. Babby tier shit like this is necessary to even be able to reach people. (inb4 but in my country!1 No, you assholes haven't been Red Scared since birth.)

So basically they are using Marx name for their social imperialist agenda. Wow good job. But hey, at least normies know who Karl Marx was now?!

Only in the liberal sense of that word. What actual socialist initiatives has the DSA undertaken in the past few decades?
All I see is watered down reformism and idpol.

You're not in the org. Stop talking out of your ass. You don't have a clue how the local chapters and national organization has changed. Stop trying to funnel people into your shitty party.

I'm not confused, the Democratic party is very relevant to this discussion and the poster I was replying to was specifically talking about the party. The DSA mostly supports Democrat candidates, If you just want to talk about the DSA but not the democrats then that's willful self-delusion.

you can't help but pull out Holla Forums tropes at every opportunity, can you?

Nice way to out yourself Holla Forums
>>>Holla Forums

SAlt is a Trot org but I'm pretty sure most of the rank and fill membership honestly is no different than the rank and file membership for DSA

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DSA aren't socialists my dude.

I'm not judging people solely by their aesthetics but I'm usually having a good knowledge of human nature, and I can tell you these guys are a useless. Discard them. They won't be helping the left.

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but he is Holla Forums, as he's outed himself several times in this very thread

I want liberals to leave…

You're not a Marxist. You're either a cop or Holla Forums trying to push people away form socialist orgs. Fuck off.

How are the DSA Social Imperialists? You're saying that the DSA is the USSR in the 1960's? Are you retarded?

Why are they not Socialists my dude?

That's not what Social Imperialism is. You fucking retard.

Holla Forums really is your big other, isn't it?

This is what liberals actually think.
This>>1809550 and read some history

Some guy say that DSA is just reformist, some other guy tells him to shut up because "muh left unity", yeah i see this is only shitposting, but this is just an image board and debating here has its limits.

Knowledge of human nature is a term describing someone's ability to know people when he sees them. You fucking autist oh my god.

Nothing in their agenda makes them socialists, its just social democracy

Extracting net value from countries under imperialism to spend it on domestic welfare programs isn't social imperialism?

DSA has been a failed socdem entryist org up until the last couple of years. They've only recently taken a shift toward actual demsoc and the left caucus and leadership aren't deluded enough to think reformism alone will bring socialism. You have to push this angle as far as you can while radicalizing workers before more revolutionary approaches become possible. No communist party spontaneously came out of the nether with mass support without pushing for some reforms. Even the fucking manifesto has reformist demands to be worked toward.

*gasp* NOT THE PROFANITY!

Leave your fucking house. You've been throwing a fit about people having dyed hair and make blanket judgments about them as individuals based on appearance and claiming you can make such a judgement on the basis of human nature. You are pure unfiltered cancer on this board and the left as a whole. kys

Honestly my opinion of the best shot at socialism is deliberately provoke a Spanish civil war situation, except be prepared beforehand so you're not scrambling to put together militias

Maoism is literal class collaborationist social democracy with with red flags. Mao was a nationalist and little more than that.

nah I just recognize you from the other gay-bashing thread
also you can't really hide it all that well

They honestly aren't. SAlt is infamous for shit-talking about DSA in internal leadership discussions, while deploying the same tactics and attracting the same membership base.

it's human nature, you see

There's a difference between advocating socialism and reformism, and only advocating reformism. Advocating minimum wage or single payer healthcare doesn't even begin to deal with the problems of capitalism.
They clearly mention socialism in the constitution, but in reality all I see is "intersectional feminism", "diversity", "LGBTQ" and support for the Democrats.

But I saw them move and shout things too. Do you not think people go for certain color combinations and visuals to transmit a message? Especially on a public event? People make use of aesthetics to signal to their in-group, and they can and should be judged upon that.

I wasn't. Not everything that uses those two words tries to make a descriptive assessment of human nature as an abstract concept. It's a fucking phrase.

Besides, you have no right to judge, you support imperialism and capitalism with a human face.

The DSA see reforms as a means to an ends, not an ends in themselves. Everything said about the DSA in this thread has been misinformed.

And yet the org is full of Communists.

Here I am wrong and I apologize, for some reason I remembered the definition of Social Imperialism as the USSR forcing other Socialist Republics to adhere to the Soviet Model, and while that was a point of contention during the Sino-Soviet split obviously it's unrelated to Social Imperialism, my bad user.

I learned my theory by reading Mao. Went in with an open mind and finished disgusted. You don't actually improve my hopes considering you're a gay bashing autist that judges people based on hair color.

This isn't even an argument, you're just throwing slogans around.

What a waste of satanic trips. Put the chips aside and leave your basement once in a while

Leninhats are always the most joyless of posters

This. Maoism's biggest weakness is Maoists.

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I'd love to be proven wrong.

You started it. Your statement was full of buzzwords without any explanation.

But that's the wrong way to learn Mao

is this the same knowledge that lets you judge people you've never met based on shit you see on /pol?

Actual DSA members with knowledge of the leadership and local chapters are telling you you're wrong.

I'm not sure if you understand how human communication works. They are also screaming "Trumpcare eat my ass". Keep euphemizing hardcore liberal Praxis.

New Democracy = Class Collaborationism
Marxism-Leninism = Social Democracy with guns

Not that user, but tell me this, how was China not Social Democracy, they still had wage labor, they still had production for value, surplus value was still extracted from labor, sounds like Social Democracy to me.

My life doesn't evolve as much arround the internet as yours.

Exactly, you get it from the Roo!

Then why are you posting in this thread so much faggot?

Surplus value is extracted in all social formations. What differs is the form this extraction takes.

A man doesn't only produce food for himself, he must also produce for others, so there is no such thing as getting the full value of labour. Even while money still exists, there must be taxes for the maintenance of the disabled and other things present in any Civilization.

Oh fuck off man, can you argue in an intellectually honest way? New Democracy is attacking the primary contradiction, which is imperialist aggression, in the moment of imperialist exploitation the interests of the local working class and the local bourgeoisie align during the struggle for national liberation. Especially in a pre-industrial country. You clearly have no understanding of Maoist theory.

China had shortcomings but surplus value wasn't extracted if there isn't a class appropriating it, production for use was rampant if you ignore the marginal amount of exports, this also means there is no wage labor in the marxist sense, receiving money isn't wage labor. Same applies to Stalinist USSR and most pre-revisionist ML states, get fucked.

muh dumb proles

This is your level of logical fallacy right now

What, in your opinion, should they be screaming? Trumpcare is hugely unpopular and they're putting themselves out there and saying there's an alternative to taking away healthcare for pic related

I'm curious if you have viable suggestions or if you're just here to bitch against gay people and stereotypes of purple-haired libs

Yes, and under Capitalism it's reinvested into the means of production, endless upscaling, and as such worker's only receive a fraction of the actual value they produce. This is Capital 101. If the value form persists into Socialism them the Proletariat can exploit itself, even without a Bourgeoise, this is why Marx thought Mutualism was so dumb.

New Democracy was opportunist and it's why Capitalist Roaders swarmed the party. New Democracy was a corridor that lead straight to Dengism.

Oh, still posting I see, I guess you were lying about your life not revolving around the internet :^)

But it will probably be so even in Socialism, since you also need to further develop the productive forces.

you literally used "Big Red" which is a Holla Forums meme from like 2013

apparently it does

Maybe in certain peripheral countries, but this is nowhere near the issue it was in the previous century.

Literally no DSA figures I've seen have ever supported the democrats, most call them ghouls and bastards, idk where you're drawing this from.

old memes and bitterness I'm guessing

Read The Holy Family and also Geras's book on Marx's sixth thesis on Feuerbach.

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Neither are Maotists

all of these people bitching about DSA's electoral strategy should read luxemburg

I wouldn't say "eat my ass", specially in the context of a Pride parade, but there's noting inherently wrong with that protest, i don't see the problem here