I do not frequent this board. I consider myself a rightist, although I have a pretty thorough understanding of leftism, especially left-communism and ancom for a non-leftist. Not thorough for an actual leftist though.
One of the reasons I'm not a leftist despite exposure to it through people I respect is that I am fairly actually reactionary, and I have great concern for the preservation of tradition, especially with respect for organizations that are important to me like the Vatican and Buddhist lineages (I am a Gnostic with some years of study into Catholic and Buddhist theology), both of which leftism seems antagonistic towards.
It also seems to me that the greatest art in the West was created under conditions of late-feudalism, mercantilist economies with the patronage of a leisure class, like the material conditions that allowed the Rennaisance to happen, and the reason most truly great music in a historic sense was created in the 1700s (jazz notwithstanding).
The reason I am posting here is that I would like to be proven wrong. Are my concerns unfounded? Is high culture compatible with any form of leftism? Do I need to go full anti-equality to protect the things that are important to me?
Thank you.
Also: this isn't a debate thread. I won't try to prove people wrong. I just want to learn.
What better way to reclaim this than make everyone apart of this 'leisure class' with communism?
Levi Roberts
Capitalism is the agent of the Demiurge.
Brandon Gray
I can get on board with that.
How is this possible? Elimination of scarcity?
Camden Green
to expand: read stirner if you want to become a memelord who argues by shouting "SPOOKS xD" every other post.
Noah Brooks
basically, yeah. This would be done mainly through automation and the cessation of exchange for profit.
Nolan Cook
Communist countries have the best art tbh
Xavier Brown
I would say that the only way to save genuine culture is by eliminating capitalism. Capitalism commodifies everything. We could all become the "leisure class".
I appreciate high culture aswell, I would definitely not want to, for example, smash old buildings.
Ryan Perry
Please stop. If it's not stateless it's not communist.
Elijah Parker
The elimination of make work jobs that are useless and the focus on automation would reduce the workload by at least 75%, that would reduce the amount of work that's needs to be done, divided evenly to all capable of working, to less than the amount of work needed to be done in just life as a whole for the 'leisure class'. Basically even though everyone would be doing work of some kind, the amount of work needed for each individual would be less than the work needed to just live in that time period.
John Rivera
people that do that probably havent even read stirner, and are just memeing. which is fine, because stirner is best meme.
Tyler Lewis
you spelled worst wrong. it's irritating.
Jason Robinson
Reduction in working hours combined with much freer access to education might lead to more high culture, or it might not. Presumably the patronage of rich individuals could be replaced with patronage of the glorious central planning apparatus. We have plenty of very rich richfags now, but they aren't interested in fostering paying promising young composers to compose or whatever. Perhaps the state could be.
One of the themes in Secondhand Time is the apparent overnight loss of interest in literature.
Lincoln Moore
So the "smash old buildings" idea isn't inherent to communism? That sort of ideology is where a lot of my resistance comes from. Is the destruction of old culture to make way for glorious equality a majority opinion?
I came to an egoist anarchist position through occultism. Really, occultism/mysticism/esoterism and politics can be completely independent of each other. Hakim Bey and Julius Evola have diametrically opposed politics, but both take deep interest in Hermeticism, for example. Elimination of wage labor and the global capitalist system will be a large net positive for those on the spirtual path.
Hudson Peterson
When did communists ever do that? I read once that the USSR commieblocks were supposed to be temporary. Everything was going to be glorious Stalinist architecture eventually. It's a shame they didn't devote all necessary resources to make all buildings attractive. I think nice architecture is probably pretty important for the psyche. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinist_architecture
The USSR had p. cool modernist monuments too.
Jeremiah James
Only among maoists and certain types of anarchists. I support repurposing churches, mosques and synagogues for more secular purposes like worker's councils or libraries. Also put solar panels on the roof. I would never outright destroy a church.
Nolan Cox
t. Spooky XDXDXD
Sebastian Reyes
I appreciate this although I'm not a fan of modernist architecture.
Ayden Lopez
Churches are already used for lots of stuff like that, anyway. Wolff films his monthly talk in a church, for example.
Cooper Gomez
No. For a topical example, Trump demolished some fancy art when constructing one of his gaudy towers, that triggered Camile Pagilia. In capitalism the old buildings and art will be removed when they are no longer profiable or something more profitable comes along. This is also why mainstream music has been the same since '97 and why we get capeshit films but no equivalent to Taxi Driver.
Under socialism we could immediately cut the workload in half by eliminating unemployment and superflous jobs. This would enable STEMfags to unleash their autism in more productive ways, artcucks to make more interesting shit, and lazyfucks to play more vidya. There is no reason not to be a socialist unless you're a porky or 1%.
Blake Morales
How do you cut out superfluous jobs but still have no unemployment? Where would people work? How would you distribute wealth? I mean practically, not the ideology behind why you distribute it.
Landon Lee
why do they never read the sticky. there are four of them you dont have to make a thread for this you nigger
Logan Foster
First reply is best reply
Cooper Kelly
Get your shit together what the fuck
Connor Sullivan
Gnosticism is a tradition. Just because I'm a heretic doesn't mean the Church hasn't done more good for humanity than any other institution.
Henry Nelson
Wage slavery is replaced by various methods, including self directed labor. People start doing the things they want to do instead of only what capital will ransom to them.
The internet already runs on this principle. Give people the tools they need, and they'll make stuff with them.
Michael Lewis
I wanna FUCK stirner
Nathan Lopez
Goddamn even /x/ has a higher understanding of what Gnosticism is than you.
Spreading the words of the Dermuige is a net positive if they put a human face over it?
I have genuinely never witness someone pretending to be a gnostic for contrarianism sake
Elijah Lee
Those previously working superflous jobs and the unemoloyed share the work load so the work hours per person decreases. Technically everyone will be unemoloyed because it's a different relation to production, but essentially everyone will work, but they will work much less.
Where people work now. We're not gonna blow up shit just for the fun of it.
Depends on scarcity and technology. I'm vague because that will vary based on material conditions.
Aiden Stewart
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Juan Gomez
Unless you're a posadist
Austin Butler
Traditional art was upheld much more ardently in Soviet-aligned states than they were in the West.
The Soviet Union promoted ballet and classical music while the West turned to rock, pop and clubbing.
It's funny that communists get accused of wanting to "destroy culture" when M-L states we're the biggest patrons of classical culture.
Gavin Williams
"Preserving tradition" is a logical impossibility. "Traditions" arise out of material and social necessity. As either change then those "traditional" practices will change or be discarded.
Just look at Germany for example. They "maintain their traditions," as side shows, circus attractions, tourist curiosities.
And what's more than that, the traditions you want to maintain probably aren't even your traditions anyway, but those of the ruling class of whatever country you happen to be in. Your own people's traditions were viciously uprooted in the social upheaval brought by capitals advance up through the twentieth century. By adopting these quasi aristocratic or bourgeois traditions, you're culturally cucking yourself.
Easton Rogers
There wouldn't be the need for charity of you didn't have groups like the church siphoning resources from the working class.
Kayden Barnes
Yes? To a gnostic, all they have done is to prolong their suffering in this flawed material world with no offering of salvation (real salvation).
More like fundamentally opposed. These Christians are worshipers of the Dermuige, the flawed being who has created this shitty world that you as a gnostic are trying to escape from. Not only that they are actively spreading worship of Dermuige. They are also indoctrinating the people they are supposed to help to worship him and prolong their suffering and imprisonment in this material world. How can that be a good thing to a gnostic? And this isn't even considering all the blatant misassumptions you have of Gnosticism
Kevin Hughes
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Gabriel Rivera
Y'all know who to read
Jack Davis
...
Jacob Kelly
Less so than in capitalism.
Chase Reyes
More like the destruction of bourgeoisie/imperial culture and a revival of folk culture.
Jason Kelly
I thought you said you already understood communism?
Perhaps you should read the FAQ.
Michael Lopez
Highly debatable, I mean sure you have the classical composers, but you also have the romantic composers who emerged alongside early capitalism, not to mention the works of Twain, Dickens, Thoreau, etc which all appear well into the capitalist era. Before feudalism you have the works of Homer, Virgil, Hesiod, and other ancients. Even under Soviet socialism you have the founding of the world's first film school and the works of people like Sergei Eisenstein.
It's true that a lot of great art came out of the renaissance and as a result of patronage, but just imagine a world where everybody's basic needs our met and working hours are drastically reduced. In such a world where free time is so abundant people would be able to commit more time to artistic or other intellectual persuits. If what made renaissance art so great was the existence of a leisure class that could afford to support promising artists, then imagine a world where everybody is a member of the leisure class.