So how would we make Cuba a sucessful socialist country??

So how would we make Cuba a sucessful socialist country??
Although the latest continuation of the embargo on Cuba will hurt their economy, it can also mean they will enform a more socilaist economic policy.
If it was in our hands how could we make Cuban economy succesful, whilst pushing towards communism (taking into account this will probably result in toughest sanctions by USA and their allies)
On my opinion it will have to sustain three major pooints:

1.Mantain their current politic system (on my opinion Cuba is a democracy), whilst fight against COINTELPRO and possible coups.

2.Go fullsocialist, withdraw any procapitalist reform, give more democratic control locally to workers.
But more importantly start working towards a network to plan the economy (such as he one discussed in societ cybernetics thread, or the one Chile started to develop during Allende's goverment en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn), making reforms such as the suggested in "Towards a New Socialism" by Paul Cockshott.

3.Strenght relations with China, giving them lots of concessions (although China will only help for their interest, they will probably not try to convert the island into a caitalist country).
The same will be applied to South American countries , or countries like Vietnam, NK, Iran, Russia…..

How could we do it leftypol?

Other urls found in this thread:

theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/sep/10/fidel-castro-cuba-communist
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

cuba is capitalist

I now, what im saying is how could we make it socialist

We can't. Socialism-in-one-country is an impossibility.

hurrr

No it isnt. Communism in one country is an impossibility.

So the best solution is to let capitalist neoliberalism flow into the country?? I think Socialism has helped Cuba a lot, just compare it with other Caribbean countries.
Of course it never was a truly socialist country but they did not have much option as they depended of the soviets and after USSR failed they were scrued.

I would add to that:
1. Definitely proceed with the projects for sustainable energy they are doing (the solar panels) and crank it up to eleven.
2. Stop making the intranet a legal greyzone and support it officially. Make a local version of wikipedia available so the cuban people have even more access to information and education. Make some sort of database system for open source machinery and "liberated" proprietary machinery so people can fix and produce this on their own.
3. Stop having this inbetween greyzone for some jobs. Dont limit the number of cap drivers. Either ban them completely/set prices or allow so many of them so that the price goes down. A "middle ground approach" only causes problems.

Nice straw man. Operating as a DotP until the dominoes fall elsewhere isn't SOCIALISM EVERYWHERE AT ONCE.

The lower stage of communism is still communism.

No. Where did I say that? The best option would be to have a proletariat government that puts people over profits and tries to minimize the effects of exploitation.

Great tips smartarse.

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I agree with this, thats why revoking any procapitalist reform is vital, this middle ground is a certain problem in Cuba.

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gomrad sonig :DDDD

No you moron

You've done it. Now sonic is first to the gulag. Hope you're happy.

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Don´t cry OP, this leftypol reality

I don't know, I'd say more local contro, for starters, would be a nice gesture, but that destroyed the USSR so

I don't know about you but I think they're doing a good job accomplishing the end goal of socialism.

Explain please, they are starting to introduce pro-capitalist reforms.

Are you sure those are pro-capitalist? The masses are still in a socialist paradise, so I don't see the issue.

They are allowing some capitalist firms to run some stuff and also allow smaller businesses to operate. This opens the door to production for profit rather than use, and also opens the floodgates to privatisation and corruption by capitalist forces.
You cant give them a nanometer, just look at the USSR or China. Give them even one opening and they will exponentially fuck over the workers with increasing power.

Wow, somebody wants to discuss economic improvements for Cuba and it takes 10 seconds for Leftcoms to derail this thread.

I'm so fucking tired of Leftcoms, can they all go their own board where they discuss Gilles Dauve and wether or not the Law or Value is transhistorical?

These "firms" are nothing more but one-man businesses im agriculture which sell their produce to the state.

And only recently they took away a lot of concessions to these forms of private forms of organization

I think you would need a decentralization of political power similar to the Swiss canton system, as well as a new planning model that focuses on the continuous increase of production until it exceeds demand. Also labour vouchers or another form of non-transferable currency. This last point would solve many economic issues since it would be completely independent of global currency markets and would also cripple the black market.

Im not talking about the farms, im talking about the restaurants with employees.

Oh good.

is correct. If anyone tries to bother starting a business with or without government permission, all excess wealth accrued is repossessed by the state. You don't have to worry, the Cuban people will be living in their socialist paradise still.

Restaurants are cooperatively owned as far as I know? The thing is that the media always reports on the new Cuban reforms as a concession to capitalism because they think "socialism is when the government does stuff". What they are actually trying to do is to deepen the worker ownership of cooperatives, and to include worker cooperation into economic planning. That does neither mean a) private enterprise nor does it mean b) more market.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/sep/10/fidel-castro-cuba-communist

This article doesn't know what communism is but it states correctly that what they are doing does not mean more capitalism

OP here I don´t have any problem with leftcoms, But if they think Cuba is not solicalist, why they don´t indicate how they will achieve it, instead of saying it is not socialist and no more?
Also this thread is derailing in lots of ways

And also somebody send Raul a Spanish translation of "Towards a New Socialism" ASAP

Yes, but the problem with this is that.Because of the embargo the economy is somewhat dependent on turism.
How would could be labour vouchers applied here? Creating to different currencies?, one for locals and one for foreigners?

What worried me the most about Rauls reforms was that he wanted to lease land to foreign investors (this is exactly what Deng Xiaoping did, except in Cubas case it would have been restricted to tourism), but since Trump is NazBol he pretty much nuked this by banned American tourism in Cuba.

This is why this thread is relevant, maybe Trump not lifting the embargo, will make them go more socialist

Here

They already had two different currencies, but Raul said they are going to me merged very soon.

I don't know this obsession with labor vouchers, it would create unnecessary disruption because they aren't transferable, so housewives and minors would have no money. If you have production for use only, money is de facto the same as labor vouchers, only that it is still transferable. So the introduction of labor vouchers is the last step within the transformation to a socialist economy, not the last one.

And since Cuba is reliant on production for exchange since they have to export a lot of stuff, the whole question becomes irrelevant for a long time - let's not be utopian here

Trump's doing socialism a favor. By canceling a lot of things, Cuba will be super socialist now! Isn't that great?

Yeah Trump being a retard was literally the best thing that could happen for Cuba. Western consumerism is the hell of a drug.

Wow thanks is there a German version of this available as well by the way?

By the way I'm 100% serious, somebody get this to Cuba. I hope I'm not too patronizing, since Cuba has a lot of central planners they might already know it

Hmmm, I must have been misinformed then. I was under the impression the allowed capitalistic restaurants with an owner-employee relationship and a profit-focus.

No it will be rally bad, insted of living in an opressive socalist system .
They could be living in a capitalist paradise like the country next to them: Haiti

Chinaflag here is correct.


Well its not like we can send him an email or anything.


See thats what I meant in my previous post about cuba giving porkies an opening.

Communist Party of Cuba attends the IMCWP every year. If somebody is a member of the smaller parties which attend this meeting, you could shill Paul Cockshott to some of the delegations there if you get the opportunity. I don't know, sounds pretty stupid, just a thought that came across.

This may actually be possible, I don't now if The Finnish Bolshevik browses leftypol, but he has some videos in the IMCWP

he would probably call cockshott a revisionist or something. doesn't he write in the beginning of the book that the USSR wasn't democratic? TFB would probably lose his shit over that

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what country?

The Netherlands

how's the weed over there

No idea I dont smoke.

I do not really now were but Finbol said that although Stalin was a socialist, and a great leader he acted at the end on an undemocratic way as he believed it was the only way to preserve Marxian ideas.
And if he despises Cockshott only for saying USSR was undemocratic this is secatrianism in it´s purest form

Pretty good TBH

Are they revisionist tankies or just Stalinists?

I assume they are a small party? Could one get your tankie LARPers to do something productive at the IMCWP? Honestly I take tankie LARPers over a Eurocommunist any day

They have like a dozen or so members and are only active in one town in the entire country.

Why wold china benefit form this thou??

Abolish Capital. No need for economy if you can't trade, so go full Kropotkin on this bitch.

So you could have all basic needs covered, or have a system where they are transferable in certain situations (ie parents to children, between spouses, etc).


But it also allows the black market and corruption to function better, which would be impossible with vouchers. The only way to enrich yourself illegally would be counterfeiting or stockpiling physical goods.


They could just conduct their external trade in foreign currency, sell goods for US dollars or euros.

This make no sense to me, although they have heavy sanctios they have trade (for example they export lots of sugar and import food)

Somehow give an island the resources of a continent?
Islands of socialism (in this case literal) are doomed to be absorbed back into global capitalism. They've done some good things tho

Fuck defeatism

Yet the continent sized places failed and the island still exists.

Well managing a small island compared to a gigantic clusterfuck of 320 million people with hundreds of nations, languages, cultures and economies like the USSR has proven itself to be a little easier.

Still, Cuba is still a role model for other carribbean islands which are getting fucked by Capitalism. Remember Hillarys dirty business in Haiti?

Im not saying that it is easy, but it isnt just about resources like implied and that the lack thereof dooms them to degenerate back to capitalism.

Which means more bureacracy.

They are already doing that, and this is not the problem that occurs when you introduce labor vouchers as long as you have production for exchange. The whole idea relies on a worker having access to a certain amount of goods which is produced, but when you export it, it is no longer in the country. The whole idea of commodity allocation becomes a clusterfuck, you'd have to make so many adjustments to the labor voucher system that you can as well just keep money. Again, the black markets aren't that much of a problem, they are a marginal issue and are only ever brought up in Western media complaining about it.

here


The same thing happens in leftcom threads, just it's a tankie screeching that the USSR was socialist and Stalin did nothing wrong.

Error while uploaded, it seems.

1. End embargo that Trump just reinstated
2. Market socialism with key industries under state control

/thread

Gulag the 90% of the population that profits from side-hustles, while slacking on their dayjob.

The other 10% will oversee them as they perform forced labor. Kids will be raised in institutions from day one with no bourgeois concept of family. Perfect communism as Marx intended.