Does anyone have any good examples of Libertarians supporting fascism...

youtube.com/watch?v=dzgMNLtLJ2k

The most notable one I can think of is Peter Thiel, who wanted to create a Bioshock-style "libertarian island". He gave trump over a million dollars to run his campaign and was very vocal about his support.

nytimes.com/2017/01/11/fashion/peter-thiel-donald-trump-silicon-valley-technology-gawker.html?_r=0

wired.com/2015/05/silicon-valley-letting-go-techie-island-fantasies/

none of them post Mussolini, which wouldn't make sense, but Pinochet, Franco. They like falangism.

Oops, das Mises.

Have some Hayek tho (from an interview he did for El Mercurio, transcripted here: puntodevistaeconomico.wordpress.com/2016/12/21/extracts-from-an-interview-with-friedrich-von-hayek-el-mercurio-chile-1981/):

here

the whole "if you care about freedom then why does this lolbert support fascists" thing is pretty common and usually falls pretty flat when talking with lolberts. Either they do not have any sympathies with Hoppe-types in which case they won't really care, or they won't care about being accused of viewing fascism as a lesser evil because they genuinely do view it as a lesser evil (perhaps because they respect property rights more or because they expel people like communists which lolberts already are looking to get rid of. In short, either they won't care because they don't associate with those libertarians or they won't view associating with fascists as a problem

That's not my argument.

The argument I'm making is that fascism and AnCapistan/Libertarian ideas align closely. Amazingly, some of these people haven't realised this and need it to be explained. Others deny it, so I need sources and quotable material to make the argument.

Torbis two grinds

What fascist ideas are you talking about specifically?

polyps make attempts from time to time get rid of libertarians because they aren`t fully for that ethostate and support stuff they don`t like etc
but they can`t get rid of them
At best libertarians go along with the red pilling and acknowledge various problems(and have their own solutions) but they are surprisingly annoying and independent apparently

Mainly their defence of private property, but also cases in which they align socially (Rothbard for example).

wow really makes you think

it's hilarious how easily you can recognize that faggot no matter what flag he uses

Wasn't that Hoppe's whole argument about physical removal?

but then that is sort of you argument. to explain this in a way that might make more sense, I ran into some lolbert a little while ago trying to argue that socialists and nazis have a lot in common using quotes where Hitler said socialist-sounding stuff. To him this seemed like a valid argument, but of course I don't associate with nazis, I have my disagreements with nazis and in general I don't associate with socialists who are sympathetic to nazis so he could post as many Hitler quotes as he wanted and it would matter at all to me.
What I'm saying is this seems a lot like the tactic that lolberts like to use a lot of lumping their opponents in with people who they find unsavory and I believe that tactic is rather ineffective. If you're dealing with a lolbert who doesn't like fascism, then showing him quotes from other lolberts who like fascism won't really matter that much to him. He provided he has his disagreements with fascists, he will hold these same disagreements with lolberts who are sympathetic to fascism.

shit that was meant for

Basically any libertarian that supports pinochet

Isn't falangism actually the most left wing strain of fascism?

Just go to >>>/liberty/ it's full of it, """so to speak"""

I can one up you and show you one supporting child slavery and the slow, painful extermination of children, as well as an affirmation that depriving one of food and water is not a violation of the NAP.

Bonus:

"Denying pedophiles and child abusers the right to adopt kids is, like, tyranny, maaaaan!"

All from Murray Rothbard's "The Ethics of Liberty"

go on r/physical_removal

lmao jesus christ

You can just go to en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises and ctrl+f fascism. Whoops, already got him. Note that Mises also made some statements there critical of fascism, taking of the edge a bit. (And being a Jew, one can guess he wasn't a fan of Hitler.) But still, it's enough to show an example of a famous "free-market" guy, who, when threatened by commies, would rather support the fash.

That would be Hayek and Friedman.

Fascism is a left wing populist movement that is centered around nationalization of as much resources as possible. So no, wanting a tax free and regulation free island for economical development is not fascism. In fact, many consentires have these types of development projects with lower taxes and regulations on determinate areas. Such as the Free Economic Zone of Manaus in Brazil.

Countries*
That was a really bad typo.
But yeah, anyone associating libertarian with fascism is a complete utter idiot. Pinochet himself was also not a fascist, if anything during his regime there was the exact opposite of fascist policies, with more privatization and individualization, as opposed to nationalization and collectivization, such as what happened in the Brazilian military regime.

Can't make this up.

Mises hilariously spoke about fascism defending western civilisation.

Hayek and Friedman supported Pinochet.

Hoppe has plenty of fascist tendencies.

Countless examples.

lolbert here:

because the rest of you tards are pushing us there
if i get more personal liberty by being in a fashy ingroup than by being neutral, naturally i opt for a fashy ingroup
really fascists are only bad if you are not in the ingroup, being racially and culturally a-ok, i have no reason not to support the fascists

PRACTICAL EXAMPLE
say a group of feral minorities burn down your car and rape some chick next street
this shit happens more often than not
oh its not their fault, oh they were the victims, oh what about whataboutism, i know you didnt do anything to deserve this but still you are somehow rayciss and you should just suck it up, oh but you see in theory […]
A NET LOSS

I walk in to the local youth boxing club. Zero explanations needed. 12 hours later a local refugee center got torched, 2 unfortunate refugees found skinned alive, police is investigating, none of the locals are cooperative because none of the locals were comfortable before.
PEACE AND QUIET RESTORED

People want results. Leftists only give explanations, criticisms, theories…
You guys need to actually build your communism, and then invite people over. You need to apply your theories first, and then ask the rest for supporting you.
No one wants to invest in another 'wasnt real' project.

Scratch a libertarian and a fascist bleeds.

the wealth comes out of problem solving ability
not manual labor
if you think you are being exploited, go be exploited somewhere else, i am not sharing any of my advanced tech/methods i came up all on my own from my own hard work, with some unskilled, unemployable ingrate that thinks his worthlessness equals his entitlements

if you work with a sickle or a hammer you basically deserve poverty, no handouts here, if I can train an animal to do your job, or find someone else to do it for me for 1/10 of the price, or automate it, that's what I'm doing

Why can't libertarians admit that they have benefited from the hard work of others?
You're standing on the shoulders of giants. If it wasn't for others sharing their tech/methods with you, you'd be nothing.

Yeah how about no tho? Listen, excuses are like assholes, everyone has one.
Spare me from relativisms. Spare me from what about whatabaoutisms. Spare me from criticisms. Spare me from all the isms and the rest of the shit.
Everyone can talk, but no one can fucking do. Everyone can criticize, but no one can build.

Our whole ideology is:
1) leave me alone
2) dont hurt others

You faggots would manage to alienate even the buddhists. You are like the muslims of ideologies. Our whole ideology is leave others alone, yours is screaming at us we want to hurt others.
Go ahead and produce some results for once. Have something more than 'wasnt real that time' to your name. Build a thing, and then invite people over. Stop demanding shit from others 24/7.
Everyone can go around saying 'gimme gimme gimme'. But what is the bottom line of all of your shit? What is the end result? What do we all get at the end of the day from invoking some magical mysterious 'hard work of others' no one can measure or quantify or justify or prove exactly to the tenth decimal place???
Leftism ideology is essentially negative (destroying) while ours is essentially positive (building).
There is a reason there arent any leftist separatists. THere is a reason you dread being left to your own devices. There is a reason you have to have some 'other' to leech.

Eh, who cares. We have work ethic, traditional families, working out, being pragmatic, thinking like problem solvers, owning guns, making guns, shooting guns.
You have.. drugs, feminism, demands and entitlements you cant enforce, no work ethic, complaining, whining, being fat, etc.

Me making a minefield > you claiming 'you looked it up how to make a minefield from someone else' and coming to tax me.
Me making > you criticizing.
Me applying > you theorizing.
Me working hard > you finding excuses how that's what porky wants or whatever.

Sure is a lot of words to just say "nuh uh". Also, you know what people say about assumptions…

I'm not coming to tax you or take shit you "built". I just want you to admit that you build upon the work of others. Society has helped you and you don't want to give anything in return. I program for a living and one of my biggest hobbies is to lend my time and abilities to open source projects. I like giving back to the society that helped shaped me into who I am. You can sit on your property and hoard all your possessions and talents while also bitching about how everyone around you is so poor and needy. I'll go and actually try to make things a smidge better.

Quality LARPing

But forced charity isnt a good thing. Yes I benefited from culture and society and free, public libraries and especially youtube free lectures (studying chemistry at uni, on a state budget cos im doing good atm, and I'd probably hang myself without all the youtube lecturers giving lessons for free and helping me out), but the thing is so is everyone else benefiting from these things.

By just claiming 'you didnt build shit, social effort built it' no one would actually go and build shit. Or at least I know I wouldnt. You leftists are famous for enslaving free individuals much harder than any fascist regime.
Right wing death squads would tell me I have to bench 100kg, not do drugs or sodomize anyone, salute the flag 5 times a day and pay lip service to some leader, and even this pinnacle of right wing terrorism would offer me more personal liberty than 'joyful, liberating, brotherly' leftist quotas and rations.

The left is insanely infested with leeches and parasites, who had all the means of this world to have a normal life, but failed because of their personal life decisions. And now they want the whole fucking globe to pitch in and bail them out.
The right doesnt have this shit. The right executes these types and send their family the bill for the bullet. They dont go around molesting the productive, to bail out unproductive.

Just look at our tax money services today. They dont give a shit. They dont give a shit their service is shit, or that no one wants to use it. They can always fall on tax money (involuntarily extracted from the working man, by armed thugs), and they are a monopoly so they dont have to worry about competition.
And you leftists want to ramp up the taxes to 100%.

Leftists are so concentrated in academia, because academia doesnt have to fucking work to exist.
Look at the private military contractors, where you are competing for contracts or for your life. Look at small businesses, which are competing to survive and so offer the best service for lowest costs. Look at everything where people have to compete.
Efficiency. Quality. Quantity. Price. Just pure consumer delight.
But to have good productive businesses, bad ones have to get Darwin'd.

But leftists would rather gut the productive business, waste what they looted on the unproductive, and perform mental gymnastics about it and force you to genuenly like it.

PMCs are efficient now? Produce more value than academia?

Accepting private property hurts others, and prevents people from being left alone (because they need to sell their labor or starve).

But how are you a priori entitled to anything in this world? Where does this entitlement stops?
I dont wanna piss on anyone's parade, but I dont have infinite human rights even for myself, I physically cant go around providing everything for everyone while being in need myself.

Say we both have a square km of identical farmland. I decide to make a single child, you decide to make 15. My child will be perfectly well off, half of yours will probably starve. Do I need to now give you almost all of mine??
My argument is no. My argument is minefields, barbed wire, walls, aerial shelling of anyone stepping on my land.

Sorry for your children but you fucking made them, you fucking feed them. The world is unfair but it was also unfair for me too. No one gets rich on his own money in capitalism.

The best of the best from the national soldiers go into PMCs. Higher pay, more options, you dont have to do defensive assignments (such as waiting to get shot or getting shot for refusing to get shot), you can pick your own jobs and demand your own demands.
You'll get paid fifty times more for close protection than any national soldier. And you supply your own gear, so you dont want to waste anything, nothing is socialized/collectivized, it hurts your pocket directly..

Meanwhile, lets look at leftist academia. They dont have to compete to survive. None of their shit has to work. 'Academia' is not something I will ever employ in my life, unless its industrial/hard science one, which operates on market principles, which competes with itself, which improves, which actually builds touchable product I actually use in my life.

So yeah I will fight all attempts to be forced to fund leftist academia with my taxes.

And our argument is numbers.
If peoples children are starving to death while you are hogging all the resources and gloating, of course they are not going to be happy.
And they might even be successful in displacing you. Weather the resulting system works out or not is irrelevant to an angry desperate person.
You piss off enough these kind of people by calling them inferior and lazy when they have these issues, your land rights will become irrelevant.

Natural selection is not what you think it is, it's not "productive" or "creative" or anything like that, it's a force for survival.
Who will survive then? The guy who starves to death or the one who kills a man and takes their property to use for himself?
We are being pragmatists after all, you don't care about morality, lets see if the people you're mocking do?

After all, you only have 1 child, the other guy has 15. If you and your child are lost, that's it for you. The other guy has much less to lose.
By joining the fascists you libertarian faggots are just asking for trouble. The one thing that gave people hope was the possibility of ascension.
You have gone from "up by your bootstraps" to "let them eat cake", and I don't think people will appreciate it.

But one man can machine gun 50 in a second these days. Again, value doesnt come out of manual labor, and strategic might doesnt come from illiterate malnourished peasants with shovels.
By a priori convicting everyone guilty just because they are rich, you are also alienating and making enemies of a whole bunch of creative, productive, capable people.

These whole moralisms are leading us nowhere, so we are both starting to switch to force. I like this. Force is honest. We are finally on the same page, all humans are on the same page when it comes to force. Death is an absolute we dont have to agree about, you can go 'what is death' or whatever, but if you die you 'lost' this argument.

So I am perfectly fine and aware of this. And I am getting ready for it, as is everyone on my side of the fence.
Doesnt matter the masses arent with us (even tho average joe goes to the right in times of crisis) if we outmaneuver them.

We dont have to help out the helpless. We dont have to dig everyone's eye out, because someone was born without an eye. We dont have to carry the deadweight. We have no burdens.

The rich are already hiding their wealth and hiding in plain sight. Tax havens are already flourishing. There are already private islands of pure luxury out there, in the unmapped waters you know nothing about.
The weak can not beat the strong.
The stupid cant outsmart the smart.
While you waste 15 hours of your day helping the helpless, I can just.. invest my time into manufacturing a fucking plague, and sitting it out in my bunker or some fucking shit, I dont know, this is pure whatabaoutism on my part.

But my basic point is this: We are both climbing a mountain. Who ever climbs first has unbeatable advantage and can just mortar downhill infinite opponents.
I am climbing this mountain, and I can shoot trough the head of all beggars along the way.
You are carrying all the limping beggars on your back. You care that some injustice happened to them or they smashed their legs so others carry them or whatever. I dont,

Let's see who wins.

Why are you entitled to what other people produce through their own work? If you really believed in what you said, you would be a mutualist (abolish property rights in favor of use and occupancy rights and usufruct - maintain free markets). Then, of course, you have to contend with Marx's critiques of it.

Careful not to cut yourself on that edge! Also, you dropped you flag, you fat neckbearded faggot.

you will never build your communism by subsidizing the unproductive and counterproductive
if you seize a business that produce 5 chocolate bars a day, and turn it into a business that produces 2 chocolate bars a day, because your feelings or some social justice or whatever told you this is better, you are just delusional, reality isnt on your side here

go and seize and nationalize everything, be an equal opportunity employer, go ahead and let your limping and blind in the army, go ahead and let your women be barren feminist wastelands, go ahead and destroy your industries to feed those who cant feed themselves but are multiplying anyway

go and clash with those pursuing peak efficiency, with those who shun excuses and prefer to find a way, to those who have no blind among their fighting men, go fight the strong with your weakness, go fight the practical people with your ideals of equality and justice
see what happens
see if the universe gives a shit you get crushed and start crying it was unfair

when the fight finally starts i'll be on the right

Ben Garrison is turning more authoritarian yeah?

You mean, by using capitalism? :^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^)

With how you immediately underestimate your enemy as uneducated peasants you reveal how strategic your thinking really is.
You think the poor in society can't get armed? They have before time and time again. Royal lines have been snuffed out, armies have been defeated, but lolbert with a mortar will save the day. What a joke. And then you go on to talk of manufacturing a plague in a bunker somewhere to wipe out large sections of a population to grab land, it's like you have no grasp of reality. Even if you go out and live in the mountains nobody will bother you because no one will care, but you would be helpless to aid in protecting the infrastructure that once supplied your wealth.

My point is if you hate socialism so much, why do you make it sound so appealing?
It doesn't have to be this way, if you would just pay your damn taxes, but you can't even do that.
Arrogance is the downfall of this kind of thinking. These passive solutions will not help.
Nobody will be dragging peasants around in war, but will be sending waves of them to die.

Sorry this isnt well sourced but it shouldnt be too hard to track it down. I dont have time to myself.
sanseverything.wordpress.com/2007/12/15/mises-and-the-merit-of-fascism/

Let me guess, you're one of those STEMfags who think they're gonna be the next Elon Musk? Commodities aren't conjured out of thin air, manual labor is still required.
Also, you seem to have this strawman idea of socialists who want bad workers to leech off hard workers instead of wanting to abolish the real leeches: the capitalists.
2/10 made me reply, you could've whipped out the strawman images of leftists that circulate on Holla Forums earlier instead of pretending to argue in good faith

The academic labor market is structured exactly the same way for the special sciences as it is for the social sciences and humanities. Nothing you're writing gives any indication that you know how any of these sectors actually work, or what the people in them actually believe.

If you are any example, with how passive and risk-averse your thinking is, I would be surprised if even the blind would have much trouble defeating your "men"

The moment you say you don't care about rationality and reason, and challenge others to cope with your autistic flailing, you make it morally necessary to put a bullet in your head.

Libertarians should be made to suck 30 dicks a day for pennies on the dollar, since that's all that they seem to want in the first place.

...

...

fuck your social contract
its a crooked deal
im paying a whole lot of money, for a really shitty service i could do better myself
this is like a mafia, 'pay the protection, trust us, you need the protection, you better pay up'

i never signed your social contract, socialists
leave me alone
you monopolized the roads
even if i wanted to use some other road, i couldnt because of you

there's no logical conclusion here
other than force

to protect myself from the enslavement of 'the 99%', from 'the social effort', the 'social contract', and all the other spooks
i must run from them
hide from them
wipe them all out
or a combination of whatever one works at the time

keep your communism for yourself, i dont even want it
all i know is that your slave regime works on slaves, and that the slaves will try to jump the berlin wall just like in soviet union and all other attempts
your war machine will be under constant resistance to itself
while the free people of the world will give it their all to remain free

no, says the libertarian, it belongs to your boss

In poland we have umbrella political movement signed by childish ant to much alcohol used polish rockman, where are polish nationalists and former mempers of National Movement (they collaborate with Forza Nuova and Jobbik for example, conservative-libertarians from Congress of New Right and Real Politics Union and just a lobbyists from Adam Smith Center.
All of them vote hand in hand against rising minimum wage for example

if i can pay monkey a banana to clean the dishes
why should i employ a human to do it for 9999999999999999% higher pay?

the labor i get here is equal
you dont see engineers bitching and moaning about minimum wage
doctors arent bitching and moaning for minimum wage either
how about pilots? chemists? physicists?

no, they all have an actually valuable skill, that you cant train a fucking monkey straight outta jungle to do

minimum wage shitters do not deserve a minimum wage
Y O U should employ them for their minimum wage
not me
i dont care
i dont need them for a minimum wage
Y O U go and fucking pay them their minimum wage

YOU CAN NOT DEMAND CHARITY, THAT'S NOT HOW CHARITY WORKS

youtube.com/watch?v=BMm0muZ7F5U

ok

If I had invested all of my time into washing dishes without any security, without any healthcare, to live in a shack and to be treated like an animal, and there are no other options available. It's just a matter of working in my own interests to want to change this system. Particularly when I see the people in charge have such an excess of money to spare...

If you want to automate the jobs go ahead, the nationalists are more afraid of this than me. I just consider it acelerationism.

Go ahead and call empoyees monkeys, it will more quickly disillusion them to that garbage "work ethic" that is drilled into their heads from day one.

Labor theory of value is real my man
drive.google.com/file/d/0BxvNb6ewL7kOdWhYSEI4OVJHTkk/view

...

Tell us about all the enterprises you run, user.

I am not calling engineers, pilots, doctors, chemists, physicians and so on monkeys. Because a monkey cant do their job.

Street sweepers arent fucking exploited. Not by me. I didnt sign your social contract. I never shook hands with street sweepers or dish cleaners. Maybe they couldnt go to university for a legitimate reason. Maybe they cant participate in a 21st century economy because of something out of their control.
But I dont know that. And I dont care. And I will not let any spook snare me into sabotaging myself to help them.

If you want to do charity, do it with your own money.
YOU CANT DO CHARITY WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, THAT'S NOT HOW CHARITY WORKS

For this, they will require skills, employable, worthy, valuable skills, to build missiles and radar absorbing material for stealth bombers and what not. Which would prove they COULD obtain these skills.

But them being street sweepers proves they CANT obtain these skills, hence them sweeping the fucking streets.

You do realize socialists argue AGAINST charity right? Charity being a symptom of an economy that leaves people behind and in such dire straights they have to rely on good will of others to survive instead of by the merits of their work ethic, character, education and so on.

Not really m8.

How exactly?

i run an enterprise of finishing my degree, which is 100% technical in nature and in great demand at the moment thanks to everyone pursuing hobbies instead
im currently an intern, which is exclusively between myself and my boss, which gives me more money already than my whole schooling costs, and between not a single street sweeper or dish washer or anyone else

and this enterprise is about me not letting the fucking communists take any of my labor away from me by demanding my boss goes to a restourant trillion miles away and pay some street sweeper or dish washer more money for no fucking reason

this 'weapon' of theirs wont help them in their armed struggle
if they are armed with only 'i can totally build missiles but i clean the streets and complain about it because that's my life's passion' their coup already failed

if these street sweepers actually demonstrated any of their missile technology i'd keep my mouth shut in fear and pay them their minimum wage out of my pocket even if i never use the streets they sweep
i am a reasonable man, i have fears just like everyone else

but till i actually see them demonstrating any skill or value or labor a monkey cant do
it's all equal to the skill or value or labor a monkey can do

There is no charity involved.
We would simply be taking what we need to have a decent life, and working together to do it.
Since you know about spooks, don't think you are pushing yours onto me. We can simply disagree.

I understand it is in your best interests not to give up your "property" to your workers.
Though I would say it's also your best interest to pay your workers reasonably or expect retribution.
If you want to treat your workers like animals, that is fine with me too, more fuel for socialism.

Never even had a job tier.
Good boy. Get them servile arts!

Do you sincerely believe that nobody who sweeps streets for a living could learn anything more complex? Do you believe this of all jobs?

Why don't you think people doing unskilled labour deserve to be treated as humans?

Tell me about your mother.

BUT WHY PAY A MINIMUM WAGE
TO A HUMAN WORKER
IF I CAN GO TO A ZOO
FIND A GIFTED CHIMP
AND LET IT DO THE JOB FOR LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE?????

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)

JACK NEVER MADE A MISTAKE

Are you on a mind altering substance?

Then hire chimps for all I care.
But don't expect a human to be happy to be treated like one.

why hire a human
and give it minimum wage
if a monkey would do
for less than minimum wage?

railway workers werent exploited
a baboon did their job better than them

if i hired a chimp, why am i expecting anything from a human???????

WORKERS ARENT BEING EXPLOITED
THEY ARE JUST FUCKING WORTHLESS

Then stop hiring them

see

It wouldn't be possible to exploit someone who wasn't doing useful work. Perhaps if you cannot grasp that the monkey is you.

If they are not doing useful work then why would you hire them in the first place?

i cant
leftist government is pointing guns at me and telling me i must give them minimum wage
and leftist mobs of less-than-baboon value keeps outvoting me on the issue of me running my own business successfully

but my internship is getting me more than probably 20 street sweepers put together
why the fuck do i need communism or leftism or complaining?
there wouldnt be any internship at the jungle, i know im better off under my uni and this boss than i'd be on my own

so… what's the point of all your leftisms/socialisms/communisms????

leftist politicians say we must hire all the women and gays and whatnot
or they will use violence on us

Because the baboon trainer extraordinaire in this thread's highly valuable skills are in such high demand, duh. Free market fixed it.

But their work is useful, that is why they are hired to do it.

no, all these welfare jobs exist because this useless rabble voted in politicians that force business owners to employ the useless rabble, and give them their full minimum wage no less

killing the poor is also illegal and they just keep outvoting everyone else

So? Do you want swept streets or not?

You know socialism isn't about higher wages, right?
You don't need anything if you don't have a problem with the way things are.

Almost as if humans were social creatures or something. In the jungle you'd be part of a hunter-gatherer band, it'd be great, ask Zerzan for more info.

nigga you realize voter turnout is the lowest among the poor proportionally because they're working and don't have the time or the energy to inform themselves on the issues right?

We are not talking about 'welfare work', whatever that means, but work which is being done and is being paid, which means this work is useful in one form or another.

define "welfare work"

Because there are more of them than you, get used to it.
Or try to go join the nationalists, they are pretty good at spooking idiots into accepting literally anything.

“Capitalism is more efficient than socialism.”

You've just got a cruel character. Better hope the first STEMgod to build a killbot doesn't see things the same way as you.

He's far too edgy for that. You can't suggest that most of the Volk are no better than baboons.

if you put a gun to my head
and tell me 'give me job or i'll kill you where you stand, oh and pay me minimum wage'
you arent really useful to me, i'd be better off without you in all honesty

people dont protest minimum wage because they are greedy or whatever
they protest minimum wage because minimum wage shitters arent worth the minimum wage
or the healthcare
or any of the benefits

no really if you have electricity and beer and healthcare and whatnot
and a monkey can do your job (for 9 years, without a mistake)
then YOU are exploiting your boss
not the other way around

if we could peacefully secede from these "workers"
we would

no seriously a fucking baboon did the job we pay these so called "workers" to do these days, and guarantee them all sorts of bullshit
that baboon did it all, without any minimum wage or healthcare or anything

You're not that fucking chemistry degree poster, are you? You need to stop forcing yourself to live miserable like this, user. It's driving you mad.

Miserably

if i am not worth more than a baboon
then i am not worth more than a baboon
and no amount of marx or communism or whateverism can change this fact

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(chacma_baboon)
according to marx, this baboon should rise up, kill his bosses, and be better off
according to leftism, this baboon made the railroads happen

it makes me happy that someone out there knows i exist, thank you user

Look it's simple:
You don't need any kind of socialism because you are well off.
We do need it because we lack the resources.
It makes sense you don't like socialism, I understand your point.
But ultimately there is always going to be more of us.

When we have this kind of power, it is in our interest to push for our well being, not to squander it for your feelings.
And our well being is not to protect your shitty business practices and wanting to treat us like animals.
It's just the natural way things work, sorry you must live in such a world, and sorry to your workers as well.

Feel bad about it if you want, but that's life.
You just earn a less for your work than you think you really deserve, welcome to how your workers feel.

Who the fuck is pointing a gun to your head and saying hire everyone who wants a job?

Your pathetic, childish diatribe is irrelevant to the topic. The truth is that capitalism obligatorily needs certain standards, like minimum wage (see my post
) to protect its very existence, otherwise chaos would ensue and the system could not exist. No matter how buttmad you are about it, the capitalist state will preserve certain measures to defend the existence of the class it defends, the bourgeois, and you are just an assmad petit bourgeois kid with no power over them.

I'm not joking. Your posts seem kind of unhinged, you said you hate the subject, you've got this fixation on grim race to the bottom grinding competition.
To a large degree, what you focus on becomes your reality, your reality doesn't look like a good place from where I'm sitting.

If the railroads were planned, built, and operated by baboons then yes, the baboons made the railway happen. Don't you agree?

NOBODY MOVES, NOBODY GETS HURT!
*shoots trained baboon*
I'M THE ONE STACKING THESE SHELVES FROM NOW ON, AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE ENDS UP LIKE HIM!

The sad part is that this kind of guy is what Holla Forums considers the positive alternative to Jews.

but i am not calling you baboons because i woke up today and said 'what a wonderful day to be evil'
i am a human being like yourselves, not a caricature

i call you baboons because your work can be done by a baboon, and i call your baboon coup silly because baboons, even if they outnumber humans, even if they can perform labor, are still worth comparatively less than a human, and deserving less than a human
because labor theory of value is wrong

as we have witnessed, a baboon can perform labor
but the value comes out of problem solving ability, out of creativity, the intellect, technical skills
that we do not all have in equal amount
and we are therefore not all equally valuable

and this economic value can be transfered to military value as well, just like a baboon can work in the railroads but isnt what gives railroads its value, same with military power
hell we have humans who had greater numbers against other humans and still lost

so i dont call you baboons to hurl insults
but because that's what your labor merits
you poses no merit, no value, no skill, no labor higher than that of a baboon, if you work the work baboon can work

Please take your meds

Hes just buttmad that he can't use other people for free labor and say he did all the work himself.
Also he probably needs to see a therapist.

You should read this sentence.. Also, you should take an English course, because you type like a child.

yes but a baboon has never planned or built the railroads
baboon only worked them for 9 years without a mistake

according to marx, baboon, the worker, somehow also did the planning and building of railroads

but in reality, none of these so called workers are worth anything, there is no exploitation going on, they are not stolen from, they are just worth very, very little
and they are already being paid more than what they deserve

Then why is the price of bread the same for me as it is for Bill Gates? I'm hungrier than Bill Gates, therefore the bread has more utility for me than it does for Bill, why is it the same price? Could the price of the labor of producing bread have something to do with it? Could it be the marketing and branding of the bread requiring labor of ad execs and artists?
Really makes you think

Plato can imagine a railroad really hard, but it's not going to be transporting any of the coal from the mine Aristotle is simultaneously visualising.

If workers were paid more than they were worth their employers would make no money. This isn't complicated.

what fucking scientific method did you use to measure the hunger of bill gates tho?
i dont understand your implication here

how do you know you are more hungry than bill gates? does inventing microsoft somehow stops you from being hungry, because that's how ms dos works? because working on computers change your physiological and chemical and biological properties or what the fuck is going on here???

and yes btw starving man would give his kingdom for bread
what's the point of me having a trillion dollars if i am about to die in the next second out of thirst? im giving it all away just for a sip
tho i dont see what mental gymnastics do i have to perform to imagine a starving man that owns a kingdom but oh well, that's leftypol for ya

hey guys I have a plan for a railroad, free labor pls

He's not hungry because he's rich motherfucker, and btw the poor man has no kingdom to give>>1789646
The whole Marginalist theory is rooted in the concept of individual consumer preferences, namely that our value judgements about our purchases are the basis of the value of commodities. In fact, our value judgements do not decide the exchange-value of commodities. While these expressions use the same word (“value”), they have very different meanings, based upon a whole different outlook.

In reality, the marginal utility school is the subjectivist land of Robinson Crusoe, or the “isolated man”, to use the words of Böhm-Bawerk. Economics, based upon a subjective preference theory, is reduced to individual tastes and individual choices, which serve to maximise a thing’s utility. This approach is completely abstract without any notion of real society. Market relations are simply individual relations between a person and a commodity. For the Marginalist, it is individual behaviour that is the key to understanding the capitalist economy. Using this reductionist approach, they want us to artificially strip away all the social and historical vestiges of capitalism, including existing class relationships, in order to reduce everything to this simple model of individual behaviour. The whole concept is a false abstraction. It has no historical content. As a society, we do not live as individuals in isolation on a desert island, like individual atoms. Our natural desires/choice preferences are not inborn, or subject to “free” choice, but are a product of society and our place within it. It is not simply a question of individuals confronted with choices in a supermarket, irrespective of time and place. How does the subjectivist island of the Marginalists translate into the realities of everyday capitalist relations? They do not. That is why, in their myopic world, they have no explanation of capitalist crisis.

if i build an infinite energy fusion powerplant
and you pass me the screwdriver, and that is your whole involvement

you didnt build that powerplant, i did

look around you
do you honestly believe that baboons could make the electricity and everything else??
is it so hard for you to imagine that the plans and technical documents can be worth far more than the thing itself????

think of a new brand cellphone people want, it can cost, say, 1000$
but all the technical details could cost billions because once you have them, you can build and sell those phones yourself

mental labor > physical labor
baboons can do physical labor
mental labor can invent a modern excavator that would do more physical labor than physical laborer

since i have nothing to gain out of this discussion, i am off now
you guys enjoy your revolution, i am sure you will beat porkys who exploited missiles out of your dish cleaning

With aryans like these…

We don't think technical workers are useless.

You're going into technical work anyway, you're another baboon labourer. Why do you have such a superiority complex? Why so mad? Did a manual labourer cuck? Do you resent having humble family origins?