Why does leftypol continue to deny the fact that we do live in a white supremacist system...

Because most people here don’t care about “muh idpol”

so you don't believe that people of color are experiencing oppression to this day? You don't think we are suffering from it to this day? Have you spoken to any black people? Do you follow the news?

A Nazbol finally with someone good to say.
Class is far more important of an issue than any form of Idpol.

It’s called Holla Forums for a reason. Praise Holla Forums Pot

Dude white supremacy goes beyond just the word 'nigger' and sure the experience of Dave Chapelle and a Taco Bell would be different based on economics but this is not a good comparison. A better comparison would be to compare their experience with that of whites in a similar economic position.

...

Not any more "oppressed" than the rest of the working class.
See above.
Have you?
Ah yes, the corporate racebaiting neoliberal agenda that is solely designed to fragment the working class. How could I forget.

>>>/reddit/

Yeah and almost all of the suffering of black americans is to do with poverty, not Holocausts and more black people in the Oscars. For fucks sake. The civil rights act actually gave something to all people and especially black people obviously, liberal feminism/antiracism/SJWism in general is by the rich for the rich.

And why are "poc" people oppressed? What are the reasons that this has not stopped?

If it is just cultural, wont it just whither away? Hint: nothing is just culture

Hey Holla Forums watcha doing?

go back to leddit nigger

There, I said it, are you happy? Will you fuck off now?

Then explain why poor blacks in the same economic position as whites suffer from greater inequalities.

So lets assume you are right in your claim (which doesnt have any proofs).

Why are they more oppressed? In what way? By whom? And why?

Daily reminder that "race" as we know it today was invented by anglos during the 17 and 1800s just as capitalism was kicking off. It is a capitalist lie that will be destroyed with capitalism itself.

It's called Holla Forums for a reason, praise Leftist Pol Pot.
He was far better than the mass murdering, right wing, CIA backed Pol Pot.
That's why Holla Forums is named Holla Forums, they love normal him.

Feel free to go to literally any other leftist space online or elsewhere if you want your particular set of identity problems treated with whatever reverence you feel they deserve. Sure, you might be treated like a child but at least your position on the progressive stack means you'll never be challenged on anything. Not to your face, at least.

Personally, I'm not even so opposed to """idpol""" as some here, but I sure as shit am sick of burgers acting like the world ends at Florida and expecting us all to be very concerned about your cultural and ethnic dramas

no one's denying shit here, we just recognize that white supremacy is one aspect of a larger capitalist system and that simply saying raicsm is bad won't eliminate structural inequality.
unpolite sage because you should lurk before you post you newfag/possible reddit user.

Finding a white version of Holla Forums Pot.

The real question here is why are liberals like you so intent on minimizing class?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you pretty much just said that class is the determining factor before race in society. This is the exact argument Holla Forums has been tryjng to make. A rich man is in a better position than a poor man, regardless of the colour of their skin. Race historically has been tied to social status, but in modern times where can you find an example of direct institutional oppression based on race?

"I'm going to make a huge claim and back it up with ZERO goddamn evidence. Claims ARE evidence, sinner."

Fuck. Right. Off.

You want to know why blacks in the West are doing so poorly? Because they have made any sort of intellectual pursuit culturally taboo - don't want to act "white" now, do you? You need to be STREET, nigga. They have bought into a system that would see them in perpetual fucking ruin. They CAN be more than this, but they REFUSE to be, and they resent the everloving shit out of any black person that tries to be more than a drug-slangin' hustla or a sportsball player.

They are crabs in a bucket. They kill each other in numbers that would make any bloodthirsty racist look like a rank amateur. The biggest threat to the urban black male is another urban black male. They're not even capable of recognizing where their real problems lie - they latch onto the idea that whitey's keeping them down because the alternative would be looking inside themselves and asking what THEY can do.

Slavery of black people has been gone for over a century and somehow the American black has found a way to still be a slave.

You cant have leftism in multicultural societies. Sorry m8, that's just how it goes.

Bye Holla Forums

I didn't realize that "acting white" was a perquisite for being successful. Makes you wonder how Trump got so rich seeing as he acts like a strange cross between a stereotypical jew and black person.

When they say “Acting white” there referring to stuff like disacociting yourself from stuff like rap culture. And disacociting yourself from rap culture is the first thing required for a person to be smart.

idpol radlibs already control literally every other ""leftist"" online community, why must you try to take over this one as well?

I think you know why user.

Because they just want power.

Eat shit. Misrepresent my argument all you fucking like, asshole, it doesn't make me a Holla Forumsyp and it doesn't make you smart.

The fact of the matter is that they COULD make "the hood" a hell of a lot better. They could do SO FUCKING MUCH to promote a culture of excellence and they REFUSE because they bought into the IDIOTIC notion that excellence is "white" and "white" is bad.

Stop fucking playing white savior for black people by telling them they've done nothing wrong. Stop fucking telling them they're powerless to change anything for the better because, of all things, their fucking SKIN COLOR. YOU ARE HOLDING THEM DOWN, YOU SON OF A BITCH.

Their words, not mine. There's nothing inherently "white" about not being a miserable failure and there never has been.

What in the goddamn? What kind of fucked-up racist shit is this? Trump got rich because he inherited a small fortune and is just cunning enough to screw over other people. Are you seriously calling his "macho swaggering" horseshit "acting black"? That's as fucking retarded as calling passing high school "acting white".

Donald Trump is beating black people at their own game.

This again? Really?

And that other guy had the gall to accuse me of being racist.

Quit being fucking willfully stupid.

By the way, the last time blacks in America tried to improve their own situation the US federal government killed all of their leaders and then threw the rest of them in jail. American capitalism is the root of every problem that the black community has.

Black Hebrews are Nazbol

Reactionary elements in Western societies love to conflate the essential characteristics of a group with what their material conditions and history led them to become. It's easier, you don't have to think with a sociological perspective, it's just a matter of melanin. When reactionaries have power, yes, they can behave like pieces of shit with blacks, I agree.
That said, a lot of the idpol-focused left just forgoes the materialist analysis and think like reactionaries in an inverted way, also focusing solely on the melanin levels. And it will achieve nothing for the blacks in Compton to have more black CEOs or programmers working at the Silicon Valley.
Most of my leftist friends IRL are white middle-class guys and they almost never talk about class. It's in practice all about gender and race 95% of the time. And it is often the same on the internet.
All they want deep inside is to police people into behaving well, and it can't work. If you don't eliminate the capitalist system, pushing people to be overbearing assholes in general, you won't make creepy alcoholic bums harassing women disappear overnight, and if you don't think about how we could get rid of this system and keep focusing on essentialist shit, nothing will change.
Not to mention, it also divides the proletariat by demonizing whites and males, again, in practice

Explain why then.
And do you really believe Ursula Burns or Barack Obama is more oppressed than a white guy doing construction work in Albania ?

Not all of us are tankies, and the turboliberals full on idpol fell for the essentialist meme as hard as the nazis. I'm sorry, but they are basically just the photographic negative of the average Holla Forumsyp.

Fuck off, asshole

Capitalism is not "white" in nature. Government is not "white" in nature. Capitalism is capitalism and government is government and they have existed in fuck-knows-how-many different countries with different people.

This is not a matter of "white supremacy", this is a matter of capitalism and government combining to act as a boot on the neck of people. Capitalist government doesn't CARE what color your skin is, it only cares about what it can extract from you.

You keep calling me Holla Forums because, of all things, I refuse to accept the idea that black people are powerless before the Great White Capitalist Government. You keep calling me Holla Forums because I REFUSE to accept idpol. The irony is not lost on me.

Nazbol is truly the shitpost flag.

Like clockwork

Why are you so angry? If you were a legit leftist you would understand that poverty breeds poverty and no amount of "supporting a culture" will get people out of these shitholes they live in. If hard work were truly the solution to all of life's problems socialism wouldn't exist.

And for someone so assblasted about misinterpreting arguments you sure do pull a fuckton of faulty readings out of your ass.

[spoiler]I'll just leave these here.[/spoiler
Reminder - you are in the minority in the modern age.
:^)

Gen Z still lives with their parents. Of course they are retarded.

I'm angry because you may well be sabotaging black people's ability to realize that they aren't being stepped on simply because they're black, they're being stepped on because capitalist power systems STEP ON EVERYONE THEY FUCKING CAN. You are sabotaging their ability to realize that they have common cause with any and all other races, ethnicities, creeds and colors that suffer under a system that exploits fucking EVERYONE however it fucking can.

Race is and always has been a red fucking herring. Buying into the idea that you have to act a certain way to be properly "black" is basically telling Porky "Go ahead, clap those irons on me, I'll fucking WORSHIP them."

There is one, and I mean ONE goddamn thing I will give the black idpolers - if you want a real reason to be upset, if you want to explore the possibility of there being REAL racism institutionally, look at sentencing in criminal courts. Beyond that, you are CHASING PHANTOMS.

Hard (or even putting in a decent amount of effort) work will not stop being necessary under socialism. You might need LESS of it to get by, and you might have a better chance of actually getting by, but being something useful will not stop being a thing when socialism comes about. Knowledge will NEVER stop being a good thing, no matter WHAT system you live in. Being invested in your own communities and wanting to not only be safe, well fed and healthy but to be the best human being you can possibly fucking be will not stop being a thing under socialism - it will simply stop being solely correlated with your ability to accumulate massive amounts of capital.

really activates the language processing areas of your brain

How can it be a white supremacist system if white people are supposedly becoming a minority thanks to inferior Jewish Masterminds?

Muslims are pretty conservative user, and Holla Forums would have me believe most of Europe is swarming with them.

Liberal cultural hegemony peaked in the obama era, of course kids will always want to rebel against the mainstream and against their Gen X parents, even if that rebellion is hollow and purely spectacular in nature.

You live in an ahistorical fantasy. Institutional racism objectively exists.

Do you think you could clearly define what "people of color" are?

Correct. These are kids who grew up watching "FEMINISTS GET BTFO" videos on youtube. They aren't right wing extremists. They are just memeing.

Let's see your fucking proof, asshole. Hell, I even gave you a freebie already. Let's see if you can find a damn thing beyond that.

I never seen any sort of coherent argument or real proof as to why we're living in a "white supremacist society". Porky supremacist, yes. White supremacist, the only proof I ever see offered is "THEY'RE KILLING OUR YOUNG BLACK MEN BY THE MILLIONS" with no real statistics to back it up or no accountability for the behavior that put the black men in those situations. All I see after that is convenient excuses excusing the poor criminal behavior of black men due to slavery (that their families may or may not have been a part of, and they certainly weren't a part of) that took place nearly 200 years ago.

Friendly reminder that white is a color too.

Of course the only genuinely white people are albinos. And if there were truly the darkest of dark, black as night people that could truly be called black, you might properly call them "people without color".

Porky has done everything he can to criminalize being black in America. Or do you think it's just a coincidence that crack was introduced to mostly black neighborhoods and is also the drug that receives the longest prison sentences? Acknowledging this isn't idpol, it's fucking common sense.

muh bootstraps has to be the oldest porky meme

This is beside the point.

The very term "People Of Color" is the dumbest fucking thing imaginable. Lumping all non-whites together into some amorphous mass of "colored-ness" is the most hideously racist thing I've seen arise. Hell, lumping all "whites" together is hideously racist. It's all an attempt to keep people divided based on the most utterly shallow things imaginable.

STOP FUCKING SMOKING CRACK. FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK. STOP SHOOTING OTHER BLACK MEN FOR STUPID SHIT. STOP DOING PORKY'S WORK FOR HIM. STOP ASSOCIATING CRACK WITH BEING BLACK YOU UNBELIEVABLE FOOL.

This is fucking LEARNED HELPLESSNESS.

you are worse +idpol than the faggot who started this thread

What the fuck are you TALKING ABOUT? I'm screaming at the top of my fucking lungs for everyone of every fucking skin color to stop giving a shit about your skin color, to stop willingly buying into idiotic stereotypes, to stop succumbing to idpol and start fucking realizing that shit is not going to get better until you stop saying "I got stepped on because I was black" and start saying "I got stepped on because capitalism steps on fucking everyone".

people who get hysterical online amuse me

I graciously accept your concession of defeat, Nazbol.

I never said that I think black people are being stepped on for being black. I don't believe this either. You're the only one who seems to have a problem with race concerning you said in your first post that black people reject being successful. This isn't an issue with being black, it's an issue with being a poor and lumpen. Trailer trash folk don't do shit and are living like animals despite being white.

Postmodernism was a mistake.

please tell me you're joking

I won't bother reading the rest of the posts, but it's basically this:
Saying "black lives matter" erases the fact that many non-black people face the same fate. Fixing the problem for black people does not fix the problem for everyone, hence does not fix the fucking problem. Do we need to have a separate movement saying "white poor people matter", another one for "latinx people matter", another for "trans people matter"? Or should we fix the problem from the root and not allow bigoted shit or abuse of power in the first place? Consider this, black cops are shooting innocent black people. Yeah, racism plays a huge part, but reducing the problem to "is white supremacy plz" is level 1 analysis.

Anyone saying "muh class is first" is baby's first attempt at anti-idpol and need to read and lurk more.

That's not post-modernism. It's autism.

I don't like calling it "white supremacy" cuz that term's synonymous with white hoods and burning crosses and 99% of America ain't with that shit. I don't really like "white muh privilege" either cuz it sounds like all whites are WASPs and raised in country clubs and private schools which again, 99% of whites ain't.

I just think there's better, clearer terms to describe the roadblocks racism can put in somebody's path to happiness in life without making people either look like "The Affluenza Kid" or like Neo-Nazis.

Whatever you wanna call it though it's still a *systemic* problem which can't be taken for a joke. Racism ain't just being called a nigger on Holla Forums by Holla Forumsyp cross-posters or Nazbol shitposters (you know who you are), it's for example having a net worth of $10k while the average white household's is $150,000 cuz redlining made sure that only whites could get Roosevelt's $500 billion gibs me dats in housing loans (the American middle class boom). It's only getting 2% of the $30 billion in small business loans given out to Americans since 2011 by The Small Business Administration to jumpstart the economy after the 2008 crash. It's being 4x as likely to go to jail over drug charges even though whites and blacks do and sell drugs at pretty much the same rate. It's being killed by the police at 3x the rate as the supposed "black on black crime" epidemic kills black men when you adjust for population size and so on…

Fuck off
IDPol faggot

We need ALL the workers to unite to fight the Liberal and Conservative bourgeois system. Not just the coloured worker or the white worker matter. #ALLWORKERSMATTER

I have a problem with racebaiting and racial essentialism. Many, MANY black people have been conditioned to think of themselves as HELPLESS. The original subject of the thread was focused on black people in the West, and that is what I have been talking about. You want me to talk about all the stupid ways poor whites shoot themselves in the foot? I've been there and done that. That wasn't the point of the thread, though.

Porky has done a lot of fucking work figuring out exactly how to keep various members of lower classes in line. What works for most black people does not necessarily work for white or Hispanic people. Porky accomplished a MASTERSTROKE of assholery with American blacks, though - he actually got them to believe that things like scholastic achievement, sticking around to raise your kids, and avoiding getting involved with self-sabotaging destructive criminal behavior (not to be confused with the kind of civil disobedience required to fuck over the broken capitalist system) would strip them of their identity as black people.

I didn't say it was easy. I said to stop doing it. Stop doing drugs, stop getting mixed up with drugs in the first place, stop killing each other over the damned things. Fuck's sake.

Afroplasm read this
spiritofcontradiction.eu/rowan-duffy/2014/03/19/working-class-hero

Very simply, there is a preponderance of middle class assholes with no empathy populating this board. They hate non-white people, they hate poor people, they don't care about their fellow man.

They're reactionary pricks, and unbearably sanctimonious about it because durr at least it triggers libruls. They only care about looking cool.

No.
Life is meaningless and you are all stupid faggots. Let me intoxicate myself to bear your infantile level of discourse.
MAKE METHOXETAMINE LEGAL AGAIN

Right. And I assume you know this because…?

So the argument I'm getting here is that the reason black people are disenfranchised in the US is because Porky told them that that's ehat being black is all about? Sounds to me that you're saying that just telling someone to be poor is why they're poor, nothing to do with their material conditions.

Not to mention you still don't seem to understand that working out of poverty (from your first post, you made the claim that slavery was 100 years ago, so they should stop being slaves) doesn't work well on a societal scale. This is why third world countries are still in the shitter - the aftermath of imperialism. This is why being poor isn't something that can go away with "respecting a culture of knowledge"

It is wasteful Idpol distraction to weigh the issues of so-called "Minorities" - be they "Minority" in an ethnic, racial, gender, or other sense - more than those of "Majorities". In short, it benefits only those few who would keep the workers shackled to the system to create a fale narrative of "Minority vs. Majority", and it benefits the multitude of workers to see past this illusion and shout "Egality!" instead.

That doesn’t mention economics. Mabey Gen Z is Tanky.

False*

Gen Z are the most cancerous thing since the baby boomers.

Even with their conservative views, the silent & greatest generation people are decent.

If you're referring to me, I have less than a thousand dollars in the bank, I am hopelessly in debt because I bought into the "you need a college degree" meme, I don't even own a goddamn car, I have a shitty job with no real prospects for any sort of upward mobility, I grew up poor in a single mother household, I eat fucking cheap food and the only reason I even have a goddamn computer is because my grandparents had a brief charitable streak. Despite actually dropping out of HS, being dirt-fucking-poor and growing up in an INSANELY abusive household, I STILL MANAGED TO AVOID GETTING MIXED UP WITH DRUGS. Despite being harassed by cops CONSTANTLY when I lived in SoCal, I STILL MANAGED TO NEVER GET A CRIMINAL RECORD.

What a shit thread

Cause the world is not the US and skin color doesn't matter in capitalism.

Why are you still here

But what about the memes?
Older gens don't even create memes.

because there's a lot of ex-Holla Forumstards (and current ones) on here that haven't quite moved beyond from that mentality

You son of a bitch, if you were in front of me right now I'd strangle the life out of you for that.

My life has been the EXACT OPPOSITE of easy. It would have been EASY to succumb to a life of crime. It would have been EASY to blame another race or ethnic group for all my problems. It would have been EASY to do exactly what Porky WANTS me to do.

Understand something: I don't view myself as special. I never did and I never will. But I know better than to ever assume that the EASY way is the RIGHT way. I watched lots of other people of all sorts of skin colors both fall prey to the easy way, and likewise I saw people of all sorts of skin colors refuse to succumb to that. I saw a young black man from a middle class family go from doing well in elementary and having as much opportunity as any person could hope to have in this system to falling in with a gang in HS that ended up with him being arrested by police for selling weed on school grounds and breaking his parents' hearts. I met a Hispanic kid who had grown up in a particularly bad neighborhood and had cigarette burn scars all over his back surprise absolutely everyone and defy all expectations by making Honor Roll MULTIPLE TIMES.

We live in a fucking shitshow of a system, but you have to fucking TRY at least. If you get knocked down 9 times, you get up 10. If you give up and resort to drugs, crime and every other dark place Porky would rather you go, you sure as hell aren't going to be much help when we get rid of Porky.

I'm 30 and I create memes.

In fact.. you think propaganda posters weren't always memes?

We don't deny it, we just don't like the approach the "left" is taking towards these issues and how capitalists are hijacking this issues to shift them from economics into identity, these people only seek to make capitalism more inclusive

Your perspective is welcomed, and one I agree with. But to deny that this board is packed to the rafters with reactionaries and racists is tone-deaf.

The only way not to have "bad people" is to become r/soc and start banning everyone that says faggot.
That's not how chans work.
That's not how I want society to work.
If that is what you want, go back >>>/reddit/

I'm not arguing banning anyone, dickweed, I'm just pointing out that they're here and they should be challenged.

Well this is the chans after all, I agree that some people here are taking their "anti-idpol" to the extreme, but I believe it's just a response phase to current mainstream politics, it will tone down eventually

Ok, so, you want us, every time that pol is raiding, to start asnwering with argument, not sage, not anchor and keep them well fed?

NOPE! Not happening!

Unless you mean "racist = saying nigger online, even if you live in Bulgaria and never see black people"

The system is not white supremacist, because whites do not benefit from it, but it is institutionally racist, which a lot of people ITT is strangely denying. Recognizing that different races are treated differently in Capitalism isn't idpol, it's just common sense. Whites build the prisons blacks live in while Latinos mow the lawn of the warden. Blacks are disproportionately targeted by the prison-industrial complex, that is their special role in US capitalism, they are not targeted because the judges or cops are racist, they are targeted because they're good business.

It's important to recognize the unique positions different races have in the system and how things might be generally shittier for certain ones, but idpol and playing oppression olympics doesn't help anything, nor does viewing everything through race. Someone being white doesn't mean they weren't assaulted by the police and thrown into jail nor does someone being black mean they aren't an exploiting porky, it just means it's less likely. It's slave mentality to be angry that you're treated worse than another slave instead of being angry that you're a slave to begin with.

I can tell when people are trolling and when they're not, it's pretty simple for people without autism to distinguish. And yeah, when someone's not trolling you should challenge them on it. The fact that you attribute the tendency to Holla Forums trolling speaks volumes, there are plenty of racists on this board who unironically think they're leftists.

Race is a spook.
Latino is a made up US term.
Stop thinking americanocentic.

Well, am not gonna stop you from telling people "you are not real leftist", but am not gonna do it unless I think so!

Could you people define me what a "true leftist" speaks like?

There's a very simple test. If you're a racist you're not a leftist. If you freak out when people call out racists, you're probably not either.

A spook is precisely something that doesn't really exist but still has power and concrete influence, just like race. I'm giving American examples because this thread is about African Americans, but different race still have roles elsewhere.

The only struggle is the class struggle. Racism and Sexism are two of the oldest tools used to keep the working class divided and subjugated. They exist in abstract (i.e. blacks do have worse conditions than whites of comparable economic status) but they're created and sustained by the same class system that oppresses us all.

That's not how it works.

Well… I Greece in the 90s it was like that with Albanians.. but I don't think it's because of race…

Then again, the US is shit, cause people based their entire ideology on "Gapitalizm workz" and blaming based on skin color, so..

but this is still the internets, AKA international

Yes, that was what I meant, that saying "yo, nigga" makes you a racist. I appreciate your good faith.

>>>/reddit/
Fuck off!

>>>/reddit/

Nuke the US now.

wew

This, give it a year or two

dont reply unless you decide to give legit arguments concerning class instead of "I had a hard life and Im okay now haa"

...

Because "institutionally racist" is used by liberals and their tokens to say "Whitey keeping pee-oh-sees down" because it is assumed that the institutions in question are white in nature.

They were MADE into "good business" for the prison industry via the encouragement of a particularly destructive culture. Why on Earth the same demographic that gave us poets, musicians, writers, and thinkers of no small caliber EVEN BEFORE INTEGRATION, EVEN BEFORE THE LIFTING OF JIM CROW, is now wallowing in sub-mediocrity is a question that I cannot fucking wrap my head around. HOW? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? It could be said that ALL culture in the West is slowly degenerating into utter and total shit, but… fuck's sake.

Because the CIA flooded their communities with drugs to neutralize their revolutionary potential, then locked them up in record numbers. They didn't choose to, you fucking asshole, it was engineered.

cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html

I dont care. Burger idiots are importing their retarded race politics to europe and I dont want that.

Racism issues in europe need different analysis and especially not the silently racialist shit discourse of the USA.

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/richard-nixon-used-america-s-war-on-drugs-as-excuse-to-target-anti-war-left-and-black-people-claims-a6948521.html

I love how a single quote from an embittered former staff member has become irrefutable proof that the drug war was always a racist conspiracy to destroy the black community

Also lmao that the black community was somehow a paragon of straight-edge teetotalism on drugs when practically every jazz musician dropped references to weed or dope in every third song

there's also the fact that CIA agents were caught redhanded selling drugs to black neighborhoods to fund their murder gangs in South America.

There is a clear history of using drug suppression to get rid of racial undesirables, from opium suppression and Chinese deportations, Mexicans and dope, and yeah, blacks and dope.

It's irrefutable that the CIA flooded black Los Angeles neighborhoods with crack:counterpunch.org/1998/09/01/whiteout-the-cia-drugs-the-press/
kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/alexander-cockburn/white-out/

Of course black people used drugs anyway, but take a look at the ones that were criminalized most heavily, and they are ones that black people used more. You're clearly ignorant of the CIA's role in abetting the drug traffic, so read McCoy's book on it before continuing this conversation.
archive.org/details/pdfy-MiSTDFMs_BBF8W9B

Get this tumblr tier idpol off of this board.

And we're ignoring the elephant in the room that the black community weren't exactly averse to illegal drug usage prior to the crack epidemic.

Hmmm…it's almost as if drug usage in those times was disproportionately associated with those minorities.

Though I am having a good laugh at the idea that some black heroin addict or pothead would need to be forced at gunpoint to use crack by shadowy CIA goons

The thing everyone on the left likes to forget about the whole "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" thing is that while the system we live in is HORRIFICALLY rigged that is NOT AN EXCUSE FOR NOT FUCKING TRYING TO BE SOMETHING MORE THAN WHAT YOU ARE.

Yes, a Porky telling you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps is profoundly insulting, but it's not because self-actualization is some terrible fucking thing, it's because the son of a bitch is trying to take your "bootstraps" as he steps on your fucking face.

Don't fucking sit there and say "well the system's rigged against me, MIGHT AS WELL GIVE UP LOL." Don't sit there and make excuses for yourself. Don't tell yourself you're helpless before the machinations of the capitalist state. Fucking get up and fight it. Fight the urge to escape into narcotics, fight the pressure to engage in and normalize violence against your fellow man, and make the best of a terrible situation, for fuck's sake. You can't do everything, but you are your own goddamn master and don't ever let anyone or anything take that from you.

We all have choices - some are shitty choices, some are not as shitty. They could have fucking made the operation a resounding failure by REFUSING TO FUCKING DO DRUGS, AND BY REFUSING TO DEAL THEM. (The hippies were destined to be sellouts anyway.)

Are you suggesting that it's ok to lock them up then? Drugs are illegal precisely because it allows the state to criminalize and regulate people's lives.
And because the state wanted to regulate those minorities and control their labor they made those drugs illegal.

Does Nancy Reagan post on Holla Forums?

Documented history is not "tumblr tier idpol."

Literally every "community" uses drugs. The racial point is that those drugs used by nonwhites were criminalized far more heavily than traditional white drugs. In the fifties while every housewife was knocking themselves silly with tranquilizers and pills, yeah, blacks were smoking weed and doing dope, but it certainly wasn't those housewives being carted off to prison. The point about flooding communities is that when things are available people are more likely to try them. People drink alcohol because it's easy to get, and people smoked crack because it was dirt cheap and everyone was selling it.

Neither is any community, need I point out that whites have a not insignificant possession rate of cannabis and Mkhat?

Nice weasel words, faggot.

we are supposed to be pro science here, right? we are supposed to be politically incorrect here, right?

aight, someone explain this shit to me:
how the fuck can all races be the same, when certain races had ice age glaciations, european alpine climate, had to develop better tools, better shelters, better clothes, had to think long term, plan for winter, had to cooperate, etc etc etc etc et fucking c
and others could obtain all the food and women they wanted just trough pure aggression?
how can this D I F F E R E N T evolutionary pressure, diet, climate, continents, thinking, and everything else for T H O U S A N D S of years create the absolutely the S A M E biological creatures?????

it is a scientific fucking fact that we are measurably, empirically fucking different, dont let me go to culture because i can talk to N O E N D there
fact: giving blacks modern medicine was a mistake (there used to be less than million africans before whites cured their diseases)
fact: cant blame whitey for being shit at life and getting conquered piss easy B E F O R E whitey even discovered them
fact: autonomy didnt even exist among non-whites in the 19th century
fact: comparatively small bands of desperate adventurers, merchants and explorers O W N E D whole fucking non-white civilizations

we gotta stop this counter productive, counter revolutionary, anti scientific behavior and ignoring racial facts

SOCIALIST POTENTIAL OF RHODESIA IS GREATER THAN THAT OF ZIMBABWE, SO WHY ARE WE ALL ZIMBABWEFYING IT ALL???????????????

not even gonna bother with this shit

Because some housewife doping herself silly with barbiturates isn't as much of a public nuisance as a crackhead

For which we can thank the legacy of the '60s, but the idea that blacks needed a shadowy CIA conspiracy to have a go on a crack pipe is ludicrous.

This isn't an "idea," it's well documented history. You can choose to ignore it, and if so I won't engage with you any further, or you can engage with it and report back on whether or not its changed your perspective.

No one is saying improving yourself or not resorting to drugs and crime is a bad thing, but you're being incredibly idealistic and anti-materialist in thinking that everyone can do that when it is inherently designed for them not to. There's a difference between seeing things on an individual level, where people can improve and be decent and that should be encouraged, and seeing it on a societal level where it's literally impossible to change unless the material conditions change also.
Refusing to do drugs when your life is shit and there's no way out is as logical as refusing to take painkillers when you have a broken leg.
And why would you do that when it's the best paying job you can get and the one you only know how to do? Even if you decide not to because you don't want to contribute to the problem, someone else will, so you're just fucking ourself over, which might be commendable on an ethical level, but it doesn't change anything.

crack would never have been introduced to inner cities if it wasn't for the CIA.

...

"Help! Help! The CIA are flooding my community with crack!" said the heroin-addled addict as he felt the onset of withdrawal symptoms

...

It's the CIA's fault that crack was popularized in the first place.

If you don't pull yourself up nobody else will. In our system, one person slipping through the cracks simply doesn't fucking MATTER. You are the only person you can rely upon, when the chips are down.

You can lie there and beg for help from other people who may or may not even be in a position to help you, or you can take some goddamn initiative. Your choice. I'm not going to stand on your neck, I'm not going to keep you down, but I'm struggling to keep my OWN head above water. I've called for help many damn times and found that the only person I can rely upon to help me is my own goddamn self.

wew, sure changed my worldview

your picture is implying that rwanda is better than the us
so why the fuck are there near infinite rwandans going to the us, and almost no us citizens going to rwanda??

no for real THERE ARE NO ARGUMENTS for this bullshit
uh-huh sure, fucking liberal dipshits

Racism is politically correct.

And who popularised weed and heroin? MI5?

quit blaming the people using drugs for having their lives destroyed by the state's criminalization of drugs.

Guess that means all 59% are hardline conservatives

They aren't all the same because they don't exist. Race is sociological, not biological.
Stop spreading this fucktarded "muh snow makes you intelligent" theory. For the vast majority of civilization snowniggers lived in huts same as Africans, the great civilizations lived in the Fertile Crescent or around the Mediterranean not in fucking Scandinavia. It's also completely retarded to think being in a jungle is some paradise that requires you to exert no effort, think long term, or create shelter.
Literally no civilization has existed purely off of raiding.
Because significant evolution does not happen that quickly and different ethnic groups have constantly interbreed with each other, preventing actual races from appearing.
Who knew that better healthcare increases the population.
Arabs never conquered any part of Sub-Saharan Africa.
What does that even mean?
Cortez didn't conquer the Aztecs with a few dozen adventurers, he carefully manipulated all of their many enemies into attacking them at their weakest.
Ditto :^)

...

Taking painkillers when you have a broken leg is not the same as taking heroin or crack because your life is shit. Taking the painkillers doesn't make your broken leg worse. Taking the painkillers reduces the pain to a dull enough roar that you can at least hear yourself think.
The price you pay when you pollute your own community with that crap is greater than any sum you could possibly get from selling it. It's not just an ethical consideration, it's a matter of "Do I really want to get into a profession that's very likely to get me imprisoned and/or killed one way or another? Do I really want to create a community in which I could be the next victim of a druggie who has resorted to violence in order to secure their next fix?" It's a matter of self-preservation.

that "shadowy government conspiracy" was proven true decades ago. Stop being obtuse and quit defending the US government and the prison system.

its a measurable, objective, scientific fucking fact that quality of life correlates directly to the lack of niggers
Marx, who was determinist, also thought so, so did fucking Ghandi, so did 99.99% of the people who met these feral creatures
only the overly sheltered, delusional hipsters in their unsustainable gated communities can defend niggers and make oceans of excuses for them, but not for long

go ahead, turn the whole world into zimbabwe because its trendy you piece of shit, see what happens when there are no more places to go to avoid our multicultural beautiful diversity

social sciences had
O N E
J O B

my image is making fun of cherry picked images for info graphics like the ones you posted. Rwanda is quite clearly not better than the USA, but a few carefully selected photos can prove otherwise.

So if someone is homeless and penniless, they just pull themselves up out of what? A tin can and some string? You're just as bad as the people you claim to oppose.

Also, "those people don't matter" is a very fucking dangerous statement.

Assasinate thyself.

The CIA Office of the Inspector's General confirms all the allegations Gary Webb made. It's well established in the study of drug abuse and addiction that availability of drugs increases usage in a population.

It is an irrefutable fact that the vast majority of black people do not deal drugs.

You're a racist, and clearly don't live around black people. I do. They sit on buses and go to work, they make pleasant conversation and ask about my family.

You repeat the tired line that all racists use that only people who don't live around black people could not be racists. It's a lie and always will be a lie. People who live in homogeneous communities are more likely to be racist. That's called a fact.

t. self hating nigger

I'm just trying to understand the absurdity of implying a community notorious for its problems with heroin would need to have crack forced upon it by an intelligence service.

Seriously, this is Holla Forums-tier "the heroin epidemic among rural whites is a Jewish conspiracy..somehow" tinfoiling

And there's no way that crack would be any more available in America without the CIA pulling strings behind the curtain?

In all honesty Holla Forums is a halfway house for chantards. Exemplified by NazBol memers.

You're right. The fact that people here wince at the mere mention of anything that isn't class or exclusively pertinent to straight white men is a problem.

Mostly Holla Forums is okay on this front. But there's a good amount of people with straw-SJW's on the brain as well.

It's time to stop lying.

The fuck are you on about? Every few days Holla Forums has a struggle session thread like this over all the ugh straight white male posters and their "obsession" with idpol, where we all pat ourselves on the back for being simultaneously #woke on the latest SJW outrage and smugly assured that yes, it's all related to class in the end

We whence when you try and drag us into the cesspit of ideology that is identity politics. It's a recursive pattern of useless crap, and this is a board based on the discussion of the ACTUAL left and not edgy liberals.

It's not a conspiracy theory because it was proven true.
yes because the CIA invented crack and introduced it into black communities.
No CIA=no Crack.

If you're homeless and penniless you're still fucking alive. Your options are very limited but you have some, depending on where you live. I've been there once, as a teenager, I had to flee from a group home because one of the other kids there made a very fucking credible threat against my life and the group home staff thought I was lying. After two nights I ended up going to a church and begging them to get me in touch with a social worker. What few belongings I had (clothes and basic toiletries) had all been stolen or slashed to ribbons with a knife when they went to claim them.

It is, and it's what our society tells itself every goddamn day. Don't shoot the messenger.

The vast majority of ANY demographic doesn't deal drugs. This is beside the fucking point. I'm not looking to make a "hurr durr dem niggers are all slangin'" statement, because I'm well aware that dealers come in all colors.

Thanks for not answering my question and instead providing a useless personal anecdote. So I'll reiterate: pull themselves up using what? And you're not the messenger, it's you making statements and not backing them up.

Did the CIA invent and distribute weed and heroin as well, or was that the OSS?

It's honestly hilarious watching you types that would otherwise argue that the drug war has failed "because you can't stop the drug trade" turn around and argue that the crack epidemic would never have happened without CIA involvement.

Who was behind the meth epidemic of the '90s/'00s? A shadowy cabal of Jewish FBI agents terrified that Ruby Ridge and the 1993 WTC bombing meant that rural/underclass whites would soon start a Nazi masturbation fantasy?

ITT: The CIA are entirely responsible for organising and orchestrating the cocaine trade, mysteriously the only hard drug trade that was intentionally created for political purposes, instead of piggybacking on a drug trade exploding thanks to other external factors

Kill yourself, you have no understanding of geopolitics whatsoever, central africa was cut out from the rest of the world given their position, they never had a chance to trade with other civilizations and grow, most civilizations prospered in the Mediterranean and eastern Asia given it's location, and they were far from being blonde & blue eyed whites, I know easy answers are tempting, but equating everything to race is the mindset of a 5 years old

Such as?

Whenever you hear "it's just…" and "It's a good thing", your red flag detector should be blaring.

Dat rape rate tho.

But let's admit here, South Africa's and Zimbabwe's leaders have been incredibly incompetent.

CIA are behind the heroin trade too. You don't think Afghanistan became the largest producer of heroin out of nowhere right?

Because white supremacy theory is no different from Nazi Jew conspiracies. Funny you call us reactionaries but you sound just as reactionary as actual reactionaries who go "Jews are over-represented! Thus Jews are the problem!". Just switch the words in your post and you'll sound just like a Holla Forumsack.

Read, asshole.

For adults, I know the Salvation Army runs soup kitchens, there are food banks, there are homeless shelters (though I wouldn't recommend them for extended stays - but if you're actually penniless, at least you don't have to worry about having anything stolen from you there). Churches and other charitable organizations usually do warm clothing drives to keep winters from being a death sentence in colder areas.

When I say "they don't think you matter" I'm not saying it because I don't think any given person doesn't matter - I'm saying it because I've heard it out of the mouths of god-knows-how-many people. People fucking IGNORE obviously homeless people in my city. I bought one guy the closest thing to a square meal I could get for him (McDonalds, but it beats fucking starving). People looked at me like I was fucking insane for talking to this dude. One lady thanked me for, of all things, getting him out of the area, not for feeding him and trying to get him situated better. Nobody knows you when you're down and out.

One factor was the surge in migration by Colombians, particularly inhabitants of Antioquia (i.e. where Medellin is) that provided a ready-made distribution network for Colombian cocaine, in much the same way that chicano street gangs are linked with Mexican cartels.

There was also the links Escobar and his associates made with suppliers in Peru and Bolivia, and the relative decline of the Colombian marijuana trade (due to easier-to-access new American varieties) and the fact that coke was easier to transport that lead to the boom

This isn't even getting into the fact that as many DUDE LEGALISE ALL DRUGS LMAO advocates will attest American high society was already familiar with coke thanks to the roaring '20s.

I won't deny CIA involvement, but to believe it was entirely due to them is absurd, in much the same vein as the claims by the original drug warriors that illegal drugs were part of a Communist conspiracy to undermine the American people

I basically agree with this, except for the criteria for it being white supremacist - in my eyes a white supremacist society comes with white supremacist ideology moreso than some hard-to-quantify white benefit. It's possible for whites in a white supremacist society to be objectively worse off than they would be in a non-white supremacist society due to the impacts of the ideology and policies based on it.

Basically agree with everything else you said, and glad someone actually made the distinction.

we aren't talking about weed and heroin dipshit. And even though the US didn't invent weed they are responsible for making it illegal as an excuse to lock up poor people, most of whom are non-white.

US soldiers in Afghanistan are sent to guard opium fields on behalf of the warlords who own them.

>we aren't talking about a hard drug that was already prevalent in the black community prior to the crack epidemic!

That's not a fucking answer, that's a vague overview of what it means to be homeless. Admit it, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. And again with the anecdotes. They don't mean shit,

Read pdfs attached.

Fact: giving blacks modern medicine was a mistake

FALSE

advisory.ey.com/digital/mobile-tech-improving-africa-health-economy

pubs.sciepub.com/ajphr/2/4/6/

Are you saying blacks had no civilisations before whitey?

False again

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Aksum

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Djenné en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia#Middle_Ages
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_George,_Lalibela

fact: merchants and explorers owned non-white civilisations

FALSE see above.

I'm with you OP, and I'm nodding respectfully as I read your post. I think we can all agree that Barack Obama has had a much harder life than, say, a white miner or a white construction worker. White people whose ancestors migrated to the US in the early 20th century due to antisemitic pogroms in Tsarist Russia should pay reparations to people like Barack Obama, who is not the descendant of cotton-picking slaves, but actually the descendant of slave owners. If only we had a magical machine to go back in time and tell people who are about to be executed by Mussolini's goons how surprised we are how they fucked up even though they are white. Oh, how I wish to point at laugh at those guys, or the students killed in the Kent State shootings, who were all white, so what business did they have to determine what is right for Asia? Tell you what, I talked to an Asian small-business owner and he had a very different opinion about Vietnam than these men. (And except for the women among them they were all men, and this is typical.)

Luckily, there are a few places in AmeriKKKa where a new revolutionary consciousness is spreading, it is where the most oppressed are coming together and raise their voices. I am talking about some people who are students and don't have to work part-time or raise a child, but who can fully concentrate on being revolutionaries because their parents have the money to pay for all of that and they are about to teach the rest of the world these new revolutionary insights.

no, we aren't. This whole clusterfuck of a debate was supposed to be about crack but you keep dodging the issue and talking about other drugs instead.

That picture sums up how liberals view reality pretty much unironically. Delusional cunts.

This is really the hill you want to die on, huh?

More of a clue than you, shitheel.

Do you deny that American society is what I say it is? Do you deny that the vast majority of people prefer to pretend the homelessness issue doesn't exist? Do you deny that the bystander effect exists?

I'm sure you would LOVE to be able to think of me as some kind of classcuck or fortunate person, pal, but I can guarantee I've had it a lot fucking harder than you've ever had. You would, of all things, tell people the comfortable lie that there's nothing they could possibly do to claw their way back from the brink of complete and utter ruin. You would tell them that they are doomed, they were always doomed and there's nothing they could have done differently to avert their doom. When you're slowly dying in the street, the knowledge that this is the result of the crushing oppressiveness of the capitalist system is not much of a comfort.

Tbh while we can debate the merits of the nuclear or extended family structure, it isn't really a conjecture to point out that cultural communities that hold these things in high regard, like Hispanic and Asian ones, have a far lower rate of crime and drug use even when when relative economic position to Blacks is factored in. The lack of stable two parent households in Black communities is a huge problem which while admittedly exacerbated by capitalism is at least portionally connected to certain negative cultural aspects. Capitalism is destructive to the family, but we can't ignore that communities who put more emphasis on family do far better in most general structures.

And when the ad hominems start, you know you've lost. And secondly, there's a world outside of the states. Go and visit some time, it's very enlightening.

Hmmmm.

Y'all need to read Settlers.

To show that the African-American community was already well-versed in the usage of weed and hard drugs like heroin prior to the crack epidemic, making the claim that the CIA "forced" crack on the black community moot - and that the explosion of cocaine in the US was due to other factors , and it is absurd to believe its popularity was almost entirely due to the CIA.

As many of those bitching about the disparities in treatment of crack vs powdered cocaine point out cocaine usage among the mostly-white upper classes also exploded in the same period, but I somehow doubt high-powered Wall Street execs needed CIA prodding to engage in use of the old nose powder

'no'

other hard drugs being popular in black communities still doesn't refute the fact that the CIA invented crack to target inner city black people-a fact you still haven't addressed. You just keep dismissing it as a conspiracy despite being present with direct evidence otherwise.
because Upper middle class white people on wallstreet weren't being targeted by the CIA.

This. America is a shithole, nothing new or worth thinking about.

Yes, "People of Colour" (what a ridiculously stupid term!) still face racial discrimination in Western society. I doubt that anyone here outright denies that.
Where so-called brocialists differ from leftists who adhere to identity politics is the way in which exactly these problems are to be solved.
What you call "white supremacy" is part of the superstructure, and therefore directly influenced by the economic base (ie. capitalism).
If you want to eradicate racism, it would be the best to start at the root. You don't kill a Hydra by cutting off each of its heads separately.
IdPol is counterproductive and even outright dangerous to our cause, as it projects the focus of the workers on individual elements of the superstructure (racism, sexism…) instead of capitalism.

Am I the only one who noticed that adherents of idpol are virtually the only people who use the expression "y'all"? If there is a y'all in any of your sentences, you suck.

I've addressed the absurdity that a community which was already notorious for its usage of hard drugs like heroin would somehow need to be "forced" by an intelligence service to consume a different hard drug

I have nothing to contribute to the discussion I just wanted to share a meme I've had in my folder for like 3 years

No one is saying that, we're saying on a systemic level saying "You can do it if you just try hard enough" isn't worth shit. Most people in society say that now, but it doesn't change the fact that statistical outliers are outliers for a reason.

...

Yeah it's really racist, black people causing nearly 50% of homicides is misleading and caused by internalized racism.

nice

Thing is that racism is enforced through class
See pic
Now of course, attitudes do influence social behaviour but Capitalism is what created these attitudes to begin with
Porky loves it whenever the working class is divided

Notoriety is relative - if a community has a few people doing heroin in certain scenes and drug use in the overall general population is extremely low, then that community may be notorious for heroin usage. So by the time of the crack epidemic, the notoriety could actually be based on pretty old impressions.

Also, obviously, not everyone in the black community did heroin before or after that point. Their being notorious for it in the '70s doesn't really say much about how it compared to the usage of crack in the '80s, and it says absolutely nothing about differences in how the two drugs may have been distributed. Heroin is also deadlier - it's easy to think of reasons a government agency would prefer pushing crack to heroin if they wanted to arrest people so they'd still be around to do labor. That last bit's just a theory, though.

Also, while others seem to have recommended you more solid writings on this, I'll offer this personal tidbit: a friend of mine who served in the invasion of Panama and was involved in raiding the homes of drug lords has told me he also saw CIA men actually loads bags of cocaine onto planes to go back to the United States. Mind you, this was later on, but it demonstrates a bit about the character of these agencies.

This is still the best quote on racism I've read.

The CIA were involved with the heroin trade as well.

so deep

LMAO. Keep thinking that puppet.

That's why we had white slaves for 250 years.

its mostly an American problem.
you guys have no culture and gave to fall back on skin color to find som sort of identity to define yourselves.

...

Youre a fucking faggot with no basis for your beliefs other than feels. I am trying to get you to understand and explore the topic, the causes and what can be done, but you just ignore it in favour of calling people "racist".
Fuck you.

There is no evident systemic violence against "people of color". Examples of modern discrimination fit in the dialectics of class warfare.

So do POC just imagine the discrimination and racism that they face or what?

The majority of us I think are not like this, and think that under communism probably all dicrimination will dissapear, but I think this behaviour here is a counter-reaction to the prevalence of idpol over class struggle some lefists organizations have, or some other internet places like Reddit

Al Sharpton defends all modern black culture and gets mad when anyone criticizes it.

Black culture actually defends Michael Jackson, a "black" man who made himself look white and molested boys. He didn't simply change his skin color, he tried to change physical facial features to the point that the excessive surgeries caused his face to fall apart. He wanted to become a white man, yet blacks behave like he was still one of their own.

One of MLK's nieces had the spine to say that MLK would have opposed gay rights because "gays have never been oppressed like blacks". Um, dumb cunt needs to read a history book. The United Statues used to straight up execute homosexuals caught assfucking each other back in colonial times, and it's only been in more recent years that "sodomy" was legalized- yep, for a long time in this nation, buttsex would land you in prison. That's not counting foreign nations that shoot homosexuals for existing- like the conservative wet dream Russia. So someone tell this hateful bitch that MLK would be ashamed of her.

Bill Cosby told blacks to straighten up- now hes ruined over unprovable rape accusations that are clearly falsified, set up by the same people who have protected child molester Woody Allen.

Michael Jackson was not a pedo.

They experience it, but through the lens of liberal ideology misinterpret its origin and function.

Micheal Jackson was the most successful entertainer of all time. I'm a huge fan and many believe Jackson suffered from a skin desease that left large pale splotches on his skin.

It's a disease that maiming afflicts black people and it generally starts on the hand and spreads, which is why he may have started wearing that glove.

Knowing such an appearance would alienate his audience he started bleaching his skin, because his white audience would be more acevpting of that. This disease all causes your face to deteriorate which would explain the surgeries.

Just using ocums razor what's more likely, that he was crazy in just this limited accept but went on to become rich in one of the most cut throat industries on earth or he was trying to cover up his illness

If you think so.
So there is?

Which way is it bub.

The entire point of this thread is to point out that racism is first of all real, second of all not only a product of bourgeois divide and rule tactics but a product of class warfare proper - that is the expression of the interests of white workers against and over coloured workers.

Which is it bub.

The funny thing is none of you realize the meaning of any of this and continue repeating that 'we have to ignore idpol in order to not get distracted and focus on opposing the bourgeoisie' when this attempt to ignore race and the general white chauvanism is the primary detractor of class unity across racial lines. Are you guys so stupid as to not know the most proletarian strata in the US is black?

I don't need to convince anyone here since I'm only passing by but holy fuck you guys sound like nazis when defending your own shit. Why even take a fucking interest in class oppression when you don't care about racial oppression, I mean seriously if your interest is to overcome class oppression then surely you would have the same interest if faced with racial oppression right? What reason do you have not to take on such a struggle other than a tacit belief in white supremacy.

This
Also where is it that you go normally. Please take me there.

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mostly random fb groups, which are in all honesty not much better. the rhizzone however is good but it's really slow

I think he means to distinguish between oppression aimed at non whites specifically for being non white and systemic oppression that mainly but incidentally effects non whites but don't let that stop you from feeling morally superior

You are fucking retarded. They are 13% of the population.

Kill yourself victimist piece of shit, you shill killed the left but now you won't keep it down

TIL! Thnx fellow redditor.

I'm not saying that racism is a YTs are evil issue. I know how capitalism promotes sectarian divisions in the working class in order for the bourgeoisie to remain in power etc. BUT you have to admit that POC are severely oppressed in comparison to white proles right?

what the fuck does that even mean my man

Disparities across racial lines of similar class exist but not for the reason your Jewish sociology textbooks tell you they do :^)

They experience different modes of oppression under capitalism but I wouldn't say one is more or less oppressed than the other, no.

Why the fuck do you people keep asking this over and over while remaining as vague as possible? De jure discrimination no longer exists in the Western world. Capitalism oppresses all members of the working class; nonwhites are simply more likely to be worse off and in poverty.

A lot of pro-idpol threads and people mocking idpol and spooks lately.
Are we getting raided?

...

You idiots have become spooked BY idpol.

If you try to evangelise us by being antagonistic as fuck, it is clearly working.

I try to get people to not immediately fall victim to consensus building and circlejerking about assumed truths and things being taken "as a given", that's all.

You mean like you did on reddit and where everyone who questions the consensus is instantly banned?
No, my man, all you try is forcing YOUR consensus into our culture. I say culture, because unlike you we don't ban you for attempting it. You being all pissy, because it doesn't work is punishment enough.

i normally agree with you but this shit goes in circles over and over and nothing tangible ever comes out of it except the further balkanization of movement

No, I've never posted on reddit.

This sort of lying you're doing, where you're trying to subvert the board so you can attack my claim that racism isn't "over" is exactly why I feel obligated to post.

Fuck off

...

You never post on the site that shares the exact believes that you have?
Sure buddy.

We live in a capitalistic system.
If you perceive it to be white supremacist, it's probably to force idpol into the open and divide the working classes.

Just go back to reddit, nigger. Go try your divide and conquer tactics there.

i think a lot of ex-pol types are definitely trying to cover up their own racism, sure, but what purpose do these insane shouting matches really serve? what really comes from these constant reductive flame wars? whats the point here?

Yes. I've never posted there, but you clearly have, since you seem to be so familiar with it, and its recent threads.
Enough so that you would try to lie about me, to defend racism.

Your claim that believing that racism still exists makes me reddit, that being against racism is some sort of great divisive crime, makes me think you would be happier on 4/pol/. They have nazbol flags now I heard.

Are you ten or do you not realize it can be both?
Racism is a divide and conquer tactic.

nah, it's just reddit and twitter fags ending up here organically. Somehow that I can't fathom, the profile of this board has risen to the point where more mainstream left autists feel the need to stake out positions on The Leftypol Question and occasionally some actually come here to see what the board is about. Some of them hang around and contribute constructively to the board and even help us question some of our own assumptions, and some start posting with the anil flag

I'm just deduct what you are from analysing your posts. The only person capable of lying is you and that is whether you admit being on reddit or not. It's so convenient doing so anonymously, does it? No one can check you up on that, so you can talk bullshit without punishment. This is the freedom we are giving to you.

social justice kids constantly try to D&C any left wing community that disagrees with them, it's basically how every political board on leddit works

And you recognize and are familiar with all of them? I am not. You do act like Holla Forums though, something I am familiar with since I have spent most of the last few months talking almost exclusively with self admitted lolberts and fascists from 4chan.
So why are you so familiar with reddit fam?

i understand and i think that's a big reason why this shit is so contended on this board but the tantrums people throw over it do nothing but further stratify opinions. i don't think it's that difficult to have a mature discussion about the relation of race and sex in a broader class structure but it seems to be impossible here due to either side being complete spergs

Racism is actual cia tier bullshit come on now.

How could this happen?
I know last time we had endorsed Wolff and he endorsed us back, it spiked up a bit, but then it pretty much settled down.
What did we do this time?

Of course it can be both, but you haven't actually provided evidence that it is.

Postmodernism has left everyone with a profound distaste for it and that's a fact of life. They want to be as overly confrontational about it as possible, so it makes sense that people are reluctant to discuss it until that ends.

as the board gains more traction of course more people will check it out. this is a snowball effect that doesn't go away and to actually deal with it the board needs to integrate the refugees as smoothly as possible rather than trying to shut them out

First off, I wanna point out that this is what you're doing. Your interpretation of other large groups of human beings is fundamentally oversimplified to suit a preconceived narrative.

Secondly, I'm not sure what your post even has to do with anything, so you can consider my replying a kind of courtesy.

Even though I shouldn't, I'll still go into a few of these:

It's irrelevant whether or not "black culture" (ie some black people, mostly MJ fans) defends him, because he was never convicted. Same with OJ. You and I might find the mindset frustrating, but it's also understandable considering the history of false convictions and executions of black people in the US - there is a kneejerk reaction to defend. Meanwhile, if we think MJ was guilty, then he probably got off because he was rich and not because some people who weren't in a position to free him just happened to say he was innocent.

Alveda King is a diehard conservative to begin with. Right-wing news outlets have a history of giving her lots of attention because she'll claim that she knew MLK best and say that he would have held various conservative positions that she does (opposition to homosexuality, abortion, whathaveyou) even though this suggests she somehow knew him better than his wife and most of his children. She came out in support of Trump, too.

Of King's closer family (wife, first daughter, first son, second son, second daughter) only Bernice has been homophobic, and she was only around 6 years old when King died. The rest are (and were, in the case of the first daughter and Coretta Scott) pro-lgbt. Alveda's positions are very uncommon.

There've been black people defending him the same way they did MJ, so this part is nonsense.

Have you not been paying attention to the united states for the last, all of its history? Even just this year.

Oh come on now.

I go there for Dota, TF2 and One Piece related issues.
I am banned from torture chamberes though. They even changed the rules so they could ban me. So you could actually figure out who I am, using basic deduction. See I have no problem admitting that.
It doesn't surprise me though. What all you golden socialists have in common is utter dishonesty apart from being antagonistic as fuck, if people question and refuse to succumb to your circlejerking.

If they only cared about looking cool why would they choose the least aesthetic ideology to follow?

Left wing symbols are shit compared to Nazi symbology for instance. Lefties look like shit compared to well groomed and /fit/ Nazis.

I live in the fucking US. All of the chatter of "white supremacy" is based on some nutty postmodern muh narratives concept of oppression that has nothing to do with ethnic nationalism. I say this as someone who thinks the Baltimore riots weren't a big deal.
All of America's issues can be traced back to capitalism, or in a direct political context, plain old fashioned neoconservatism and the Red Scares.
The only people who like postmodernism are the people who have been taught what it says without context.

Some refugees are actually colonists and missionaries though.
Like the retard we are currently dealing with.

Not everyone is American

Lurk moar, the Black Panthers were definitely /ourguys/. We recognize that racism exists and is a major problem, th said difference between us and idpolers is that

Being against idpol means being against racism of any kind.

this

typical
behaviour

What do you mean?

No I can't figure out who you are. I don't follow reddit celebrity drama.
Keep on being a banned reddit reactionary though lel.

Stop bitching about post-modernism.
Anyways, I'm sure it's pure coincidence white people are disproportionately better off, blacks are disproportionately poorer, and all the countries that fall victim to american imperialism aren't really primarily white. As well as that, the long and bloody history of race in the united states had all its roots and baggage fully removed when Obama got elected :^)
Sort of. It's class itself, not just capitalism, and class is a major source of racism. Sometimes a problem can cause another problem.

idpol thinks in extremes.

uhhuh

Thats litterally what we are saying you dim cunt. Class keeps racial divisions in place. Abolish class and race will be abolished too.

if you ignore the real historical basis for racial disparity then you're doing a shit job at marxism. it's not hard to talk about the legacy of slavery and apartheid and stay out of retarded liberal rhetoric

There are very few things in modern academia that are more worth bitching about.
There's the key word: disproportionately. How is this any different from "HBD" tards that claim blacks are inherently unintelligent because of disproportionate intelligence test scores? They understand human genetics about as much as liberals understand capitalism.
What you are seeing is a remnant of America's past as a state with de jure ethnic discrimination. Capitalists claim that their precious system should have made people of different races economically equal by now, which is why they become fascists and monarchists to rationalize their ideology. In reality, it has wholly failed everyone that does not own the means of production.
Class is defined by capitalism. Read a book.

Nobody does this. You are severely misunderstanding what anti-idpol is. It isnt the denial of historical injustices, it is the realisation that class keeps preexisting inequalities in place and how it does that, instead of seeing those historical inequalities as standalone events perpetuated because the "other" are evil people whose sole existance is there to antagonise you.

to me, this is probably the best argument for having class struggle and material conditions as the focal point.

You read a book m8, class structure is defined by the relationship to the economic and political power structures, it predates capitalism. Feudal lords and peasants are classes, slaves and slave owners, etc.

That's essentially what I meant. "Dominant system" would have been better, but he would have interpreted that as muh white supremacy.

No, that's what I'm saying. That means racism still exists. Which is what I said and what you called me reddit for.

>Class is defined by capitalism. Read a book.
wew

How does it function? You are heavily implying that I am supposed to just feel like what you say is true.

See

You guys bitch a lot about divide and conquer tactics you should be anti-racist as well.

We should respond to divide and conquer politics by being divided and conquered? Opposing identity politics is opposing racism.

Im not the one who called you reddit
But nobody denies that racism still exists. Blacks are economically dispositioned due to history, which is kept mostly in place due to capitalist class. This in turn keeps in tact that idea that blacks (although this goes for any group anywhere ever, arabs, irish, women etc) are "different" because they are seemingly incapable of what the dominant group can do. This in turn leads to discriminatory tendencies ranging from subconscious to severe, which lead to the economically marginalised group getting less economic opportunities and getting marginalised in places like court and law. This then further detriments the economic opportunities and position of that marginalised group which keeps them in the same position and reduces their social mobility.

Add to that that governments like the US have purposefully used said groups as scapegoats for problems to destract the workers from the real problems and pit them against each other, and we have what we have today.
The solution to this is not to play the blame game where all whites are the oppressor and benefit, or where all blacks are oppressed, because that is simply not true. While a black poor man may have additional challanges compared to a white american poor man, a rich black man is still more powerfull than a poor white american man. The cause of this racial devide is that you see those group as "others" and "different", the very existence of them as a separate identity allows for the oppression to occur. This is why the irish aren't oppressed any more (in the usa). They stopped identifying as irish, they stopped speaking their language and they werent physically identifyable as irish.

So to solve this issue, we need to both abolish class, which keeps these groups in correlation with poverty, and destroy or at the very least discourage the polarization of society into distinct in and out-groups. This is what anti-identity politics is about. Its not white or black power, but workers power. Not gay or straight power, but peoples power. It is distinctly anti-identity and pro-class. It is not about black rights, or womens rights, or mens right, or gay or straight rights. It is about our rights, of all of us. Because as long as we differentiate ourselves based on our colour, language, genitals or sexual preferences, we can never be equals.

Could you link to the posts arguing for racism to illustrate your point

Exactly?

uh, this. You're right I don't know what you expect.

There's a subtle difference between downplaying racism and advocating racism.

Good post.
However, concerning this:

Wouldn't you say it is a bit excellent that someone has to profoundly change their identity and way of life in order to not be discriminated against? Shouldn't at least some sort of diversity be allowed and encouraged?

Is that difference whether you agree with them or not

Neither do we, then. We do not downplay racism as much as we downplay the liberal narrative of racism. Similarly, we would not claim Putin isn't a right wing despot simply because we're critical of the American liberal obsession with Russia.

There were definitely posts in this thread downplaying racism. I called those out, then the chain of posts started.

While it is sad, time and time again the encouragement of your identity and the identification with that identity and that identity alone has led to polarization and conflict. As internationalisation goes on, more and more will people stop identifying as their nationality or their culture, and more with a wider culture and identity and its subcultures. That the irish had to give up their language is sad but so all the germans, italians, dutch, french etc had to. And to give us an example of what happens when you dont have this, look at quebec. The fact that they speak french instead of english alone has led to an ethnic and cultural division, while all the other originally non-english canadians dont have this.
You can keep practices and languages, but things like that, especially languages, are highly suseptable to in-out group forming due to their isolating nature. Similarly, hanging out with only people of your own skin colour, gender, religion or sexual orientation, creates in and outgroups and what is called "pillarisation". To solve these issues those aspects of the self need be no more important than your haircolour is today.

Because jews aren't white?

I know I sure as hell fear a pack of middle aged white farmers in overalls attacking me when I'm walking down the mean streets of Detroit or rural Alabama

Thats not even close to what he said lol ur just assblasted you had all your points rejected. ur theory is bad and you should feel bad

You think you're smart but whites said the same shit during Jim Crow.

The one obvious problem with your way of thinking is you would support anything progressive from the past(which you no longer have to contribute to, conveniently) but as soon as it gets to the present day it's a distraction. Again this isn't enlightened, whites said the exact same thing during Jim Crow while OPPOSING civil rights.

Honestly, just get some self awareness and accept that your opposition is simply that you're wedded to white supremacy. Exactly how in the fuck is opposing racism from a class perspective 'a distraction'? A distraction for you because you're white.

Your example of the rich black man is a disingenuous truism as well. The vast majority of national minorities are super-exploited, the vast majority of whites have cushy jobs. Your head would explode if you learned about labour aristocracy and the distribution of super profits amongst the american population.

...

wat

it's funny that OP would propagandize about the lie that whites would beat up black under trump by advocating "all lives matter" (apparently, as depicted) over "black lives matter" when it's really just the opposite; blacks beating up whites holding signs claiming "all lives matter" without being insulting whatsoever, and still being branded demonic racists for stating something that is true and obvious (that all human lives matter), and all that under the malicious eye and smile of the democratic party with their old granny hag, hillary clinton.

youtube.com/watch?v=SL8f5iWrzN0

Serious question how do you suppose niggers evolved in such a way that they manage to ruin everything they involve themselves in? Including the front page of leftypol

Some ethnic groups, despite their economic position, are doing far better in relation to blacks and sometimes even whites. Its more that capitalists are piggybacking off negative cultural attributes within these communities that have developed over time (more then likely from previous historical actions, I wont ignore that) then actually going out of their way to hold blacks currently down.

Stop fetishizing the worker so much. We live in an economy that reproduces itself by having a permanent reserve army of unemployed people. It's #ALLPROLESMATTER

What is leftypol?

So if they're half black, half white, and have a cushy job, is that okay or not?

OP please read:
thenorthstar.info/?p=11299

Exiting the Vampire Castle

Yea sure thats why they made laws to keep racial groups as litteral subhumans and also killed all the communists. Because they were anti-capitalists communists. Makes sense, they advocate for the abolishment of race while also advocating segregation and a literal caste system based on race. Yup.

Did you even read what I wrote?

Nice delusion. Most of all people have shit jobs with shit conditions. Maybe you should move outside of your liberal suburbs, out of the cities.

No we don't.
We live in a capitalist system with a majority white ruling class. There's a difference.
t. hispanic dude, because apparently the only authority to you people is someone who isn't white

This thread is one long exercise in concern trolling and gaslighting.

I do as well. But anytime I bring up the facts like blacks and brown proles are disproportionately poorer, less healthy, and jailed and beat by the police relative to white proles it's not stop IDPOL.

A black porky may not be as oppressed as a white poor prole but they still are racially discriminated against, something white porky or proles never have to deal with.

See Black Wall Street for an example of what happens to blacks and only blacks when they successfully rise in status in semi large numbers.

I know some of this is due to SJW virtue signalers using struggles and their personal play toy that strokes their ego but damn it still doesn't make the systemic racism any less real

I wish them much worse than being called nigger.

nice

What about in comparison to hispanic and asain proles? If compared crime wise, hispanics and asians commit less crime when in similar economic positions to blacks. Not making any racial points here, but I'm just saying that "black" culture has some serious core issues that while may have evolved from previous government economic actions none the less now exist within the culture. Bringing up 1921 tace riots which destroyed Black Wall Street doesn't suddenly equate to modern systemic racism. If you look at the studies it even shows that its enforcement of a similar race to the convict who are usually harsher in their convictions and pursuits.

LEL.
idpol reinforces racism.

nigger

Hispanics and especially Asians don't have near the oppressive history blacks do, though Mexicans being used as proto serfs even into today in the US come close.

Again I cite Black Wall Street and wildly economically success exclusively black city that was razed to the ground because of jealous whites. Even though segregation was the reason why Black Wall Street was so successful in the first place.

Sorry but porky may use race to divide proles but white proles bear some responsibility for either gleefully embracing a la Trump voters or looking the other way or virtue signaling on the most shallow of struggles like language policing.

...

The way people keep totting the word "idpol" here, trying to relativize its meaning, really makes you wonder they're acting in bad faith, and are trying to subvert the left into sabotaging itself.

All idpol is porky estabilishment stuff.

here

The way i see it, the pragmatic capitalists want to put society against each other, to divert their attention to the real issues, or try to overthrow the state. Tribalism is inherently irrational, and works against our own interests.

the implication is
Implicating that
Just fuck my sit up fam

Sounds like great analysis there

Why has this thread not been bumplocked yet?