DSANew Member Handbook

...

Not even a Dem thing, and good luck finding any org that doesn't have it. It's objectively shit but given my experience in the org most of the power brokers and influencers end up being white males anyway. If it's stopping you from influencing the org you're doing something wrong
Good. Racism is idpol
So what
Lmfao you forgot your tankie flag bro. I have a feeling this is your only real problem, and it's full on BS since the official DSA stance is "no intervention. full stop". Because YOUR stance involves Iraq 2.0 where you give the US license to intervene if there's "real evidence" of wrongdoing on his part. You don't realize that if you let the conversation be about whether or not Assad did something wrong, you already lost

Cali DSA are fossils, look to "rust belt" chapters for indication of new strategy.

I suggest some of you email them with your criticisms. Maybe a well reasoned argument from enough people might result in some reconsideration or at least make them think twice about retarded tactics like the progressive stack.

unless you're an illegal muslim lesbian in a wheelchair, they don't want to hear what you have to say.

I talked to a Russian communist that said that western leftists are a bunch of freaks, faggots, and larpers. This image seems to further prove his point.

Lol no, most chapters have more white men in leadership positions than not

Burgerstan is a hellhole.

Bullshit. You're just bitching so people will join your dead ISO or SAlt chapter.

I live here…. I know….

Yeah honestly if you want to change it you can with enough people. The structure of the org being as open as it is is why it's the most potentially useful but leftyanons would rather just bitch about how they're not perfect rn

The funny thing is that ISO and SAlt both regularly call DSA members "brocialist" irl.

At the very least SAlt and the ISO have an educated cadre which understand capitalism and strategies to overcome it.

DSA is a bunch of trans white college students who want to read feminist garbage together.

Checked the "Introduction to Democratic Socialist Theory". What does Holla Forums think about it?

SAlt and ISO are just as idpol if not more. It sounds like you should be joining PSL.

I saw SAlt and ISO members protesting at evergreen college. The whole American left is infested with idpol but those groups are ona whole other level.

Literelly identity politics and special niche interests that have nothing to do with dialectics.

A fascist waving the red flag isn't a commie

The Russians did far more for socialism than probably any other country on earth. I bet you're the type of person who unironically thinks Trump is a "fascist".

The Russian's that fought for communism are long dead.

Transitional Strategy: Strengthening Public Provision and Democratic Control over Production
The strategy outlined above is borne out by sociologist John Stephens’ historical argument that the stronger the “counterhegemonic” strength of unions and left parties, the stronger the welfare state and the more egalitarian the distribution of economic and political power. There is a reason why health and safety regulations are much stricter in the Scandinavian countries than in the United States; why Sweden and West Germany, under social democratic governments, funneled almost half of their respective GNPs through the public sector while the United States only transfers 25 percent; why social democratic welfare states are financed through progressive taxation while others (the United States and Japan) are financed by regressive taxation. The structure of the welfare state is profoundly affected by relative trade union and political partystrength. As the fight for reforms usually involves struggle “from below,” in liberal democratic capitalist societies there is no radical divergence between strategies for reforms or revolution. Welfare state reforms that redistribute income and radical structural reforms that increase workers’ control both necessitate stronger political and union organization.
Young radicals today often act as though street protest and direct-action tactics—even confrontation with the police—could bring about revolution. While direct action has its place in left politics, achieving serious social reform—let alone “full” socialism—requires movement-building and mass action. To refrain from struggles for reform (living wages, union organizing rights, police accountability, defense of reproductive rights and affirmative action) is to ensure marginality. Socialists must take part in concrete struggles to improve peoples’ living conditions—and do so in ways that increase their self-organization, political consciousness and capacity for collective action.

Towards a Vision of Democratic Production and Social Provision
When socialists argue for “decommodifying”—taking out of private market provision—such basic human needs as healthcare, childcare, education, transport, and housing, we have in mind a decentralized and more fully accountable welfare state than exists in Western democracies. While state financing of such goods is necessary to insure equity, decentralized social provision through community-based institutions must make welfare provision more human-scale and accessible. Democratic control of consumption should be as central to the socialist vision as democratic control over production, particularly given popular mistrust that socialism would be a bureaucratic nightmare which treated people as clients rather
than citizens.
While the exact details of a socialist economy are open to debate, it will most likely be a mixture of democratic planning of major investments (e.g., expenditure on infrastructure, investment in natural monopolies such as telecommunications, utilities, transport) and market exchange of consumer goods. Large, concentrated industries such as energy and steel would be publicly owned and managed by worker and consumer representatives. Many consumer-goods industries would be run as cooperatives. Workers would design the division of labor within their workplaces and thus overcome the authoritarianism of the traditional capitalist firm. Economic planning would set a guiding strategy by means of fiscal and monetary policy, with the daily coordination of supply and demand left to the market. But this market would be socialized by rendering it
transparent. Enterprises would be obliged to divulge information about the design, production processes, price formation, wage conditions, and environmental consequences of the goods that they make. Publicly supported collectives—consumers’ unions—would analyze this data and propose norms to govern various aspects of these practices. Information about actual production processes and proposed norms would then be disseminated via universal, publicly supported communication networks such as the Internet. This would encourage dialogue between producers and consumers over what is socially needed.
Again, there is no final blueprint for socialism. But only under socialism will fully democratic debate over the use of society’s wealth be possible and the satisfaction of people’s basic needs assured. Productive activity will become not merely a way to acquire money, but a means to develop the whole creative potential of all working women and men.

Shitty enough but it'll have to be tolerated. If they're true to their platform than with enough popular support it could change
What's the matter with this again?
Again, what's the issue here?
Literally read the entire handbook and not one mention of Syria came up. Even so, so what? Rojava is objectively good and they're not even fighting Assad so things should be fine

Didn't read page 20? What a surprise.

Stopped reading there. These guys basically just want socialized capitalism.

peace and environment arent special interests. They are interests for all.

Must have missed it. However, they don't talk about Assad or anything about the larger context of the war, just about Rojava itself.

Ice pick time

Do you love the people of Paris as well?

They are just some idpol socdems, relax. Trots are even worse.

What the fuck is this shit?? Was this written by a literal fucking democrat?

If given the chance, DSA would support to democratically execute Rosa Luxemburg.

reactionary goons

more of a leftist than whatever you are, pussy.

The section about Marx talks more about how great capitalism is than actually talking about the need for socialism.

This is soc dem cancer

So, nothing new?

Skimmed through it and saw nothing bad at all tbh.

Oh so you're a tankie

It's my understanding the left caucus are largely "Luxemburgist".

where do they talk about the means of production?

DSA?

Why are tankies so retarded?

If you don't think this is disgusting Idpol you can get the fuck off this board, especially fucking "Queer Socialism". We say "fully automated luxury gay space communism" as a joke/meme, not a real thing.

I'm sure "Socialist Feminism" has nothing to do with history and doesn't have a single dialectic concept in it.

forgot shitposting flag was still on

The alphabet soup neutralized them really fast.
But how?

Unaware of this happening at all.

SAlt is the perfect example of this. They claim to hate Bernie Democrats and ID-politics, but they desperately evoke Bernie Sanders in order to recruit trans black women.

SAlt doesn't use progressive stack.

Their support/opposition to Sanders is based around the whole "transitional program" thing where they attempt to meet the working masses on whatever they perceive to be their current level of consciousness. So, while they ultimately reject Bernie's socdem/imperialist politics, they think its "ultra-left" to reject him entirely, since he's so popular with the general American public and seen as a positive face on socialism.

I am familiar with SAlt's political posturing, but their actions, methods are indistinguishable from DSA. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

this is why you people never do anything
bite your tongue and work with each other you goddamn wastes of skin

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Anything Americans do or believe is inherently cancerous, and if by some chance something exists that isn't cancerous, Americans will appropriate it and turn it into cancer. Leftists from other countries need to start excluding Americans as much as possible. They're not our comrades.

if this "others" spend their time doing only useless shit, why should i side with them?
It's not even a problem of sectarianism, if the aims of a specific politcal group are in my opinion totally worthless why should i give my support? why should i "bite my tongue" in the name of a surely numerous, but totally concentrated in a long list of non-problems, "united left"?

also this.

We are never going to get rid of liberals are we? Being anti-idpol is clearly not working, so why not go full reactionary until liberals have been driven out?

That will just make them more smug. Just ignore the ideologues and keep making your case to the disenfranchised and disgruntled.

now you're starting to get it

Because if you let them go out and have a dumb parade once every few months you can also make them do campaign/policy work with you on a local/state/national level every other week in the year.

That's a good way of taking in nazis and autistic polyps who think they're in good company

Liberal drivel.

I wouldn't completely write the DSA off, since it is undergoing a lot of changes. Also, this seems to be a Sacramento DSA handbook, and it might not represent everyone in DSA. But overall the aim of the organization seems to be getting benefits for first-worlders and ignoring everyone else. If things at the DSA stay as they are, real communists should not join.

/r/fullcapitalism →

It makes sense the organization would focus on domestic issues given that's what most American's are concerned about and is the driving rhetoric behind Bernie's rise to relevance.

So is it other leftist orgs, shareblue or Holla Forumsyps that are constantly trying to push Holla Forums away from the DSA?

I would guess column 1 mostly. Watch the REEEEEEEEEing if you hit back against SAlt, ISO, etc.

Telling since in my chapter the biggest libfem shitstirrers have a breakdown and threaten to join SAlt every other week. Such an appropriate abbreviation

Being against social-democratic imperialism makes me a capitalist…?

But there are organizations in the USA that give proper attention to the issue of imperialism. The point of a socialist organization or party is to lead people and take strong stances on the issues, even when it's unpopular. If DSA only goes with what's popular at the moment, it will never truly change anything. Moreover, it just becomes a mechanism to pacify potential communists and turn true class struggle into imperialism with a human face.

So basically insane trannies take precedence over everyone else? White people in America are awful at organizing jesus christ.

There's no way of pleasing you people is there?

it's Holla Forumsyps. There is heavy frog shilling against it. All the frog people are aware of it and its growing popularity

I don't think red diaper babies are too concerned about it

I'm all for hating on the DSA, but aren't they about to hold a convention which can potentially restructure all of this shit?

There isn't a single branch I've visited that has had trannies, insane or otherwise, dominating discussion or even having any large influence on policy discussions. It's literally just used to get feedback from a few tokens during general meetings, which is bullshit, but if that dissuades you from doing work in an org like that you're pretty weak-willed and were never going to dominate discussion anyway.

Like 70% of the people leading large discussions, including myself, are white dudes.

Just like it should be. The American population is made up by 70% whites.
Besides, all revolutions were usually led by the intelligentsia, not a cadre of poor black trannies.

Bullshit. Black americans have a far more revolutionary character than their white brethren.

I've only been in one branch, and it was YDS… progressive stack wasn't even used. If a bunch of college kids don't use it, I don't think it's extensively employed in the wider org

I'd also say the doc in the OP is apparently from a single chapter. Not necessarily indicative of the entire DSA

Right, my point is that this is just some overblown shit by people who think real life organizations work word for word like the explicit directions spelled out on their handbooks

And it's a shame because materially the US is perfect for a revolution. The land is completely unconquerable and everyone has guns. And the ideological conditions have potential, with the love of freedom.

Do you honestly believe that Imperialism can be stopped under Trump and a Republican-controlled majority?

Do you mean if the entire military got radicalized all at once? Because otherwise I think it has some of the worst conditions for it for exactly those reasons

Sign me up for the cloud-based suicide booth.

That blunder wouldn't have happened with autism stack. Person wears
-Star Trek shirt: 5 points
-heavy metal shirt: 10 points
-Baby Metal shirt: 15 points
-bow tie: 9001 points
Highest score to the front. Simple as that.

They are too in love with their identity for a multitude of reasons.

t. kneegrow

Who fucking cares? It doesn't matter who is shilling for liberalism with red paint it still is the same shit.

Bullshit, the reason the only elements left in the mainstream are widely idpol are through extensive operation by the feds. You execute enough revolutionary leaders and you're selecting pretty heavy for people who aren't actually a threat.

And even still the average black american is still mildly more class conscious than the average white american (and I'd say the average redneck is more likely to be class conscious than their city dwelling fellow whites despite liberal media insistence on the opposite being the case)

...

Because I'm not shilling for liberalism. Fuck off with your prolier than thou bullshit as if you do anything irl

Holla Forums doesn't know the difference between liberals and actual leftists. DSA are red liberals, they endorsed Hillary and are reformists.

This is something that slowly dawned on me of the last few years as I've interacted with more burgers on political topics. The vast majority of 'politically engaged' Americans are huge, overt racists. You got your stereotypical neonazis and right wing militia types and your patronising paternalist conservatives on one side who are visibly, classically racist. But you've also got your """progressive""" liberals and leftists, for most of whom "antiracism" is the main or only expression of their politics, and they're mostly racists too, not just "anti-hwite" like righties accuse them of being but also often just as paternal and essentialist as the conservatives and sometimes outright segregationist. It's fucking weird, but being culturally incapable of viewing and interpreting politics and society except through the lens of racialism is something I've just come to expect.

Writing off political orgs over there because they're too hung up on race means writing off every political org, because they're all like that. DSA still seems OK and at least there is a decent sized faction making some kind of attempt at returning to a class based analysis of race relations, even if they still have all the baggage.

that's the CPUSA you're thinking of

I don't think the DSA made a formal endorsement

Race is a huge part of American politics.

DSA never endorsed Hillary, you fucking moron.

Lol no they didn't. Go peddle your fake news somewhere else

There is some pregnancy-related stuff for women, of course. But I don't see what's the deal with minorities really having unique interests, aside from getting citizenship if they haven't and language acquisition (and you should spell out these things, otherwise it just means some diversity committee of jackoffs who drain money from the org without doing anything). Do the DSA leaders believe black folks want to be paid in orange bouncy balls instead of dollars?
Some people call Marxist jargon opaque, but it's better to stick with it than this weird mix with touchy-feely liberal stuff in it. I mean, what is somebody who isn't familiar at all with Marxism and new to politics going to take from that passage – that middle class, working class, and poor are distinct populations? In the liberal world-view, a freelancer and somebody who does have a few employees can be both the same middle class since they can have a similar level of income, but the old-fashioned Marxist view would tell you that they likely don't have the same interest when it comes to expanding rights of those who are not employers and diminishing the power of the other side.
wat
And how is that a good thing, something to be supported, even?
The prospect of uniting threatens all these splits in society that we have and that weaken us. How many levels of Trotskyism do you have to be on to write that. Question for you: Some people want to go on strike and the boss is black. As you might now, some people in BLM say to support black business. Now, which side do you support? Do you need to know the color of the employees to know what the right action is? I guess you do, if you really need to know that, you are right to join the DSA. JOIN NOW AND TWEET AMIIBO-IN-BUTT PICTURE WITH HASHTAG #DSA TO GET FREE GAY DORITOS.

lol I'm sure you have a folder of BLM outrage

k buddy

There's a reason why Minnesotans and other Northern City types are friendlier to socialist ideas.

No need for a folder when I have multi-point hypershare cybercrowd-cast textr cloud, a technology also known as a "link to an article" among un-hip people:
blackagendareport.com/BlackLivesMatter-revives-toxic-black-capitalisim-myths
#BlackLivesMatter Introduces a New Visa Debit Card, and Revives the Toxic Old Myths of Black Capitalism
by Bruce Dixon

Well, yeah. That's the point. It's stupid but you can't just flick a switch and turn it off. If you're going to work in politics in burgerstan, you're going to be working with a bunch of obsessive racialists and they'll have a lot of influence. But the point is if you want to get anything done, you have to hold your nose and try to work with them.

Sure would be nice if American cultural hegemony didn't mean that shit spreads like cancer to parts of the world where US-style racial politics is inappropriate and damaging though.

Whether if you like it, or not you're going to have to capitulate to identity politics eventually. It might not be this year, or the next year, or even the year after that, but it's coming. I lust for the day I see leftypol's userbase bow thier knee to the rainbow haired, polygendered, monstrosity that is idpol.

Anyway, I'd like you to actually comment on what I posted in aside from your passive-aggressive tone-policing, namely that the DSA employs murky liberal categories of economic analysis ("blue collar", "middle class"), and that they address race in such a vague way that leaves open the question whether they would hesitate to get involved or even side with the boss-class in a conflict when that class is represented by a non-white person, a woman, or gay person.

I will not support a political group that is not committed to the position that class conflict is the main antagonism.

...

really made me think

You need to understand DSA is politically diverse with a divide between the more liberal and leftist locals. Generally I think the decentralized local based model is good for a broad left org like DSA, but the end result is some locals and focus groups put out wacky shit. I think they're the best group to get involved with at the moment. I don't think anyone in the left caucus thinks DSA will be any kind of vanguard and see it more as a means to build the left in general. At some point a split or some kind of radical takeover will be necessary.

Well, besides a few cherrypicked statements on non-class issues (do you really expect an American political party to NOT address these things?) you have no reason to believe class isn't the main antagonism for the DSA. If you can actually provide evidence for this point, I'm all ears.

I don't see it happening. Even if the BO was compromised I think everyone would just move to a new board.

...

Please cite specifically from that doc

...

Just skimmed through it. It's obviously an organization that puts class first and foremost, supporting workplace struggles and aiming to push the political spectrum to the left. Right now I don't see any other org or party that has this much of a chance to improve the conditions for the burgerland working class.

Freaking out about a few sentences here and there when you actually have the ability to change things is beyond fucking stupid

Imagine being this much of a damage-control mode gay dorito.

Yeah sometime you actually have to do damage control after trot cultists try to sabotage successful working class orgs. Shocking huh

Why are tankies so retarded?

oh god fam don't even get me started. The "Syrian people," their "revolution against Assad," blah, blah, blah, etc.

I don't know which faction you happen to be a part of, but please go and return when you've made even a single notable political contribution.

they are dem. socialists what did you expect?

They do it all the time. Here in my country the groups affiliated with CWI and IWLfi are all idpol and batshit crazy. CWI is the newspapers selling trot, i've seen that meme in irl and i giggled

Have ou guys heard about the new IWLfi split? :emoji laugh: Trots are the biggest joke ever>>1763639

What country?

A split is more likely. DSA cannot be taken over and still be a big tent left organization.

If things go will, DSA will be pulled to the left for a years and once the left is powerful and not a marginal joke like it is now, a split will likely happen and an actual political party will emerge.

...

...

oh look another AmeriKKKan

This was a complete non-issue in the 20th century revolutions and they took place in regions where 80% of the population were illiterate.

with all the problems DSA might have, embracing intersectionality is not one of them, doing the opposite would only stunt their potential growth.

But of course, to the worst shitposters of Holla Forums who'd rather try and fail to recruit future school shooters from Holla Forums than anyone pro-lgbtq or anti-racist this may seem "idpol bs".

The point he's making is that that DSA pamphlet's abuse of normal terms (worker, upper/middle/lower class, etc.) to hint at Marxist concepts is like a bad translation from a foreign language. At face value it's nonsensical and confused, and for someone like us who knows what they're struggling to say, it's clearly incompetent.

You can explain such things without revealing your powerlevel through scary Marxist buzzwords, but you have to commit to using one or other set of terminology.

The "step back" point is actually good though. Nothing ruins the productivity of meetings like that one know-it-all who won't shut the fuck up

...

Go back to reddit.

The rest of the stuff in this thread I expected but this is exceptionally retarded. The promise of socialism is the negation of identity not its celebration.

A million times this. I'm Canadian and it is extremely frustrating having to deal with BLM Canada going on about systematic anti-black immigration.

So I see a ton of people in this thread claim that all the hippy dippy libshit nonsense like progressive stack and placing idpol front and center is not so big of an obstacle that it should keep people from supporting the org.
But does anyone here seriously think it is a good idea, that it reflects well on this org?

I don't think it is a good idea or that it reflects well on the org. It's just an annoying bit of bullshit you have to put up with when organizing in the US. Given the push back against idpol on the left I imagine this kind of shit will become less common.

Pretty much this. SJW extremism was popularized in private liberal colleges in the early to mid 2010s. Hopefully we can work beyond special niche groups and at the very least have an intersectional basis where class is central. (this is America after all, we have to deal with . the black question and protect gay comrades from religious reactionaries).

It's easier to convert conservatives/reactionaries than liberals.

I have never posted on reddit and never will. But that is just a meme here it isn't anything serious.

I think the main issue is widespread it really is among chapters, and how much sway it holds in the day-to-day running of those chapters.

Occupy was IMHO only brought to its knees by SJWs because they had achieved a total stranglehold on its administration and rules. If we can pry their fangs out before it completely overwhelms the waves of fresh blood from Berniecrat normalfags, it shouldn't be a dealbreaker.

"I think the main issue is HOW widespread it really is"
Oops

I have been to a few of my local chapter meetings in the South and the SJWs are not in power. They do exist, but they are in charge of the Queer Caucus and Feminist caucus.

They have no power in anywhere that actually matters, thankfully. My chapter is located in the South and there are no major universities nearby, so that may be a factor.

Being in the south probably helps more than a little in that regard. But keep up the good work in building the organization there; simple majoritarian democracy should ensure that, if enough chapters like yours are around, they can steer the org as a whole.

It'll be a question of working against these kinds of entryists without starting a fight with them; if the confrontation is too out in the open, they might take their ball and go home or burn the house down. Just vote against them and smilingly steer every discussion back to class politics, in the "I am deeply concerned and emphatic with your struggle and that's why we need to nationalize health care." That might help put these things in proper perspective.
The risk of course is that it is the idpol deviationists that start the fight by demanding a purge of berniebro's and whatnot when they aren't getting the attention they were so craving.

SocDem is codeword for DemSoc. They aren't really capitalists, they are reformists.

You don't like it, go to your local dsa chapter and express your discontent, or email the national leadership. My chapter doesn't do any of this shit, and I'm in leadership to boot

So, what are we so upset about again? For an American group, this is pretty okay. Sure, they talk about race, but they're not full SJW about it or anything. Really, it's a good step forward.

Those weren't even citations that was an editorial about one chapter's manifesto
I bet you you have a red rose on your twitter handle because le irony

every day all day baby

exactly

That's a meme, it's not true.

there's a full shilling campaign against DSA–can't let any left org get too popular, now can we?

>NEW DSA MEMBER HANDBOOK LEAKED
You'll have to try harder than that, PSL

Don't be a fucking retard. Both of those things aren't an attempt to redefine socialism, they're a look at how socialism can play into feminism and queer theory. Not the other way around.

They have a fucking point though. Look at it without the statespooks. Why should people be governed by something they feel, rightly or wrongly, doesn't represent them?

2nd

this

Reminder that this:
is an actual Lares quote. If you disagree with that sentiment and think Quake is better than Gone Home, join the PSL.

Criollito it's OK to admit you have a strange fascination with me. All I said was that video games don't have to technically be "video" "games" to be enjoyable. Gone Home was a mess for plenty of other reasons

Actually how and why the fuck did you save a quote from like years ago though lol who the fuck cares nicca

"Oh no", said Lares, "another Lenin-style bully boy is being mean to me." Xe ripped open a bag of Rainbow DoritosTM. "This shall give me the power! Captain Tripfag transfo- wait, where is my semen dip?"

you can stop trying so hard, this board has for the most part successfully chased me off to twitter already
also semen and doritos are good shit

Speaking of which: Can any of the DSA shills explain why somebody should join DSA over PSL? Aside from argument by size, and if that's your main reason, you can join the Democrats.

DSA is much better organized and more horizontal. It's not caught up in silly centrist platformist ideas about "proper" leftism and allows chapters to mostly do whatever the fuck they want. DSA has a real youth wing. DSA endorses candidates who are likely to win and are socialist. DSA didn't split the fucking socialist vote with Stein. DSA is actually socialist unlike Democrats even if some pretty shitty socialists are in their ranks (that's every org). DSA isn't weighed down by viewing 150+ years of socialist theory as dogma (except I guess obviously Marx, Engels, Kropotkin) nor does it expect everyone to tow that line and spend the first year of membership as a second-class member because you haven't passed their test. DSA's dues are optional which makes it vastly more worker-friendly.
Thanks for confirming my suspicion about you and PSL BTW Criollito

…
Same applies to being in an organsation that only exists in your fantasy. What's the point of joining an org that isn't committed to anything (aside from getting membership fees)? Frankly, everything you have said makes the DSA appeal less and less to me.

I made a new handbook. Comments, questions, concerns?

But it IS committed to something, it's committed to abolishing capitalism by any and all means and making sure something worse doesn't replace it.
LOL. Have fun with centralist, cultic cryptofascism where are the decisions are made in an upper chamber and if you criticize them you're a splitter and being too hard on comrades trying their hardest then.

OP is clearly a desperate and bootyblasted individual for not making it clear that the pdf is not handbook for the entirety of the DSA but one for only Sacramento, Liberalfornia.

I believe in normal English this is called being a member of a party with actual positions on issues.

Fuck off lares, you cancerous socdem tripfaggot.

Superior germanic DNA

Nobody needs parties, which is part of why I steer clear of any group people describe as a "party". How the left is going to advance is solidarity and big tent movements, not a bunch of little groups each with their own almost universally shitty agendas and priorities. Parties are a remnant of liberal democracy that don't belong in people's democracy- something Lenin never picked up on.

That's even more hilarious.

I think you mean "anarcho-communist with neozapatist leanings" there lad =3

I've seen this same defense throughout the thread, that the DSA cancer supposedly exists on a cell-by-cell basis, and this handbook isn't representative of the broader membership or organization. If so, post an official handbook or other substantial pamphlet from one of these non-cancerous local branches plox.

None of them are cancerous, user.
Cancer thinks that things that aren't cancer are cancer, and that they need to be corrected. That's literally what makes cancer cancer.

Cancerous post tbqhwufam

Lol, fine then. Suit yourself you sectarian moron

Like the sectarian idpol COINTELPRO being used by porky to drive a pink-haired obese transnigger wedge between members of the proletariat?

You can't have a socialist movement, and give these parasites leading organizational influence, it just doesn't work. Never has, never will.

lolno

directly antithetical to organization

Even the Leninist parties where I live use the progressive stack.

lol no it isn't

every time you morons give yourselves away
anyhow
'NIGGA WHY THE FUCK WOULD WE WANT BIGOTS IN OUR MOVEMENT. NIGGA DO YOU THINK YOU ARE AN ASSET. FUCK NO YOU ARE A LIABILITY. ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THREATENED OR UNWELCOMED OR OTHERED BY THEM WILL SAY "FUCK THAT SHIT" AND LEAVE AND NOT COME BACK. JUST SO JOHNNY CROOKEDTOOTH FROM WEST VIRGINIA CAN CALL PEOPLE HE DISAGREES WITH NIGGERS AT DSA MEETINGS. FUCKING GLORIOUS. EXCEPT IT'S NOT FUCKING GLORIOUS IT'S A HORRIBLE IDEA. THE WORKING CLASS IS COMPOSED OF ALL STRIPES AND IF SOME LUMPEN WHITE BOYS DON'T LIKE THAT THEN THEY'LL JUST HAVE TO KIND OF FUCK OFF FOR A LITTLE BIT, YEAH?''
now kill yourself

It has a place. There's just no reason to have Black people specifically talking about, I don't know, abortion. It should be something that affects them specifically.

DSA has supported Bernie Sanders.

In what ways has the DSA supported actions by Socialist Alternative or the PSL when these aligned with socialist positions? (Or do you believe that literally nothing these groups have campaigned for has had anything to do with socialist positions?)

Are you implying Bernie isn't a socialist? He used to be in a Leninist party. At this juncture it doesn't even matter if he's a real socialist because he's much better than average on issues like imperialism and calls himself a socialist. It's about MOVing the MOVEment forward not being "correct".
I'm almost positive DSA participated in the SAlt-led post-election protests and I'm pretty sure they've done shit with ANSWER too (which is the only good thing PSL has ever done). DSA didn't endorse Jill because she's not technically an open socialist so it goes against their constitution even though she's openly anti-capitalist, but most members voiced full-throated support for her. PSL, on the other hand, ran against her. And again DSA is barely a national organization, this is going to vary city scene to city scene.

Transnigger is a satirical term (or used to be until recent developments in SocJus Science) meaning somebody who claims to be trans-racial.

NIGGERS! Ahahahahahaa!

I bet you believe people who say they identify as attack helicopters are legit too

Yeah I know it is and the only people who think it's funny are the same minors still posting attack helicopter memes to their Facebook. Because they're reactionaries and really think these people are running around and slowly gaining acceptance when all Dolezal did was ruin them forever. Protip: transracial is already absurd on its own, you making it transnigger just verifies you use that term often.
See, there you go confirming my suspicion again. "SocJus Science", christ. Yeah Fashy Goys wants their submissions back.
Nice job ignoring my actual post btw

Nobody has ever "identified" as an attack helicopter or demanded you use dragon pronouns or anything like that. All the otherkin I ever met acknowledged they (probably) inhabited human bodies, metaphysics aside, and were very nice people. There's neopronouns but those don't even exist outside of certain internet spheres populated with teenagers that like pretty things, it's just a decoration like an avatar or an aesthetic and 98% of them take 'they' just as well.
What I've learned is when you stop being upset at people for expressing themselves you start to figure out why it is they might be inclined to express themselves that way.

my gott

(me)

My dear autists, that's what I meant: It's satirical as a concept, not a satirical tag on a legit concept.
at DSA meetings?

Lares, when I first talked to you in the American Election General, you were a cool dude, now you're a nigger-triggered little bitch. What happened, man?

Whether or not Bernie is a socialist (I agree he was at some point, he might still be a legit closet tankie for all I know) is irrelevant. What matters is that his campaign and persona are increasingly associated with watered-down liberal garbage, clear up to the "MUH RUSSIA" nonsense, and he's demonstrated a shameful unwillingness to defy the kidnapping and torture threats against his familycall out the Democratic Party establishment's criminal sabotage of his and his allies' campaigns.

He's a good tool to push the Overton Window, and would be great to have in office, but he is completely unsuited as an ideological target for a dedicated socialist org.

tumblr

If you want to talk about posture artists and virtue signalers that's it's own issue and extends far outside the realm of identity politics.
That's what you have to put up with in entryism. It's not about his image, it's about what he's going to do and I have little reason to believe he would preside any differently from a more overtly socialist president.
What happened is I listened to concerns and views different from my own. I realize that sounds super smug but it's exactly what happened, I stopped assuming people were wrong and heard what they had to say.
What tells me you're clueless is that you think oppression olympics has anything to do with the progressive stack, which is supposed to be about things that directly affect certain individuals. The second image you posted is also really annoying, just leave Tumblr people alone to deal with their numerous mental illnesses and quirks they're not hurting you.

My idea for progressive stack: We should focus on the main antagonism in society. Catgirls & -boys to the front, the rest doesn't matter.

I agree oppression olympics isn't the big problem with the progressive stack, the big problem is that it's COINTELPRO's dream mechanic to ensure that nothing productive gets done in a meeting, and to cultivate petty rivalries within an organization. Oppression olympics is, however, the motor that unquestionably drives the progressive stack, promotes it, and thus ultimately leads to the ruin of leftist orgs and their leadership.

Some really blatant anti-DSA cointelpro in this thread. If you don't like the org then don't join. No one is forcing you stupid PSL/FBI niggers.

You're just channeling your annoyance at people talking about issues that don't directly affect you into an explanation that you think makes sense. But it doesn't, because DSA mostly uses progressive stack and is.

Occupy Wall Street fell apart because its language refused to pinpoint banking and capitalism as their enemy and so all of the people who wanted to get involve mistook it for some sort of countrywide Woodstock where people went to make a statement against Bad Stuff, that would change things… somehow. Shoddy implementations of progressive stack encouraging people to step up and make the conversation about Unfairness Of The Day was just one part of this. But everyone who cares even a little bit about identity has learned from this.
My point is progressive stack didn't kill OWS. It was doomed to go nowhere because it couldn't explain itself to people or form a cohesive agenda.

That's the portrayal the media gave, but what I saw from before its idpol cancer grew to insane levels (shouting down Noam Chomsky was the moment that made my blood boil) OWS was consistently on-message about financial regulation, personal debt amnesty, criminal prosecution of individual financiers, and government control of failed banks.

Not only that, it is repeated in every similar phenomenon since, like the corruption of BLM from pragmatic objections against police misconduct, plea bargain railroading, and for-profit jails, to a mindboggling soupy hodgepodge of idpol grievance mongering.

Maybe I haven't been on the ground enough for these events, but my impression of them points to an obvious and repeated cause.

Holy shit I have been screaming about the DSA for like 2 years now and no one would listen to me. I was wondering where all the occupy irc types went…

I fucking knew progressive stack was the feds

Yes, but it didn't clarify how all these things were linked. It seemed like a hodge-podge of Bad Stuff that people could just add to. And that wasn't the main problem, the main problem was the complete lack of praxis. They had some ideas but no idea what to do about them other than raise a big stink. They should've talked about building an alternative parallel system to capitalism but they missed that opportunity.
You are mistaken if you think the majority of BLM people think a white person rapping is cultural appropriation.

^literally 10 years old when Occupy happened

The praxis was simply to make it clear these issues commanded universal agreement among the voting public, and force the federal government under Obama to execute these policies. It was literally stage-1. Remember that the SJW entryists seized control in a period of weeks.

As for BLM, regardless of what the rank-and file think, the overwhelming majority of current full-time activists, and the absolute entirety of those who claimed and obtained leadership, certainly fit that stereotype to a tee.

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this right here famalam

:^)

there's an organization for students–YDS that has negligible member fees

i think i paid 5 bucks when i was in it for a couple of years

This is just Sacramento. There is no strong system for the national DSA to strictly discipline the chapters yet. They are nearly autonomous. This will probably change at the National DSA convention as more procedures get standardized and chapters have to follow more strict codes of conduct.

Also that graph is concerning but I took that survey and the question was very poorly worded. "Campaign Priorities" means which campaigns DSA members think are best to focus on this year. It doesn't mean they think one issue is more important than the other. Just that it would be better for chapters to do Medicare-For-All campaigns than do an Anti-Imperialist campaign.

The Old Guard of DSA and Harrington were weak on anti-imperialism but DSA is consistently anti-war despite their right wing.They are about to leave the Socialist International and improve their internationalism.

April 2017: DSA Condemns bombing in Afghanistan
dsausa.org/dsa_condemns_the_bombing_of_afghanistan

April 2017: DSA Condemns Trump's intervention into Syria
dsausa.org/democratic_socialists_of_america_condemns_the_u_s_bombing_of_syria

May 2016: DSA Condemns Obama's Sanctions on Venezuela
dsausa.org/sanctions_against_venezuela

September 2013: DSA Condemns Obama's intervention in Syria
dsausa.org/statement_on_u_s_action_against_syria

This. They act like they are better than DSA/more disconnected from the Democratic party but then they actually have to talk to people in the streets and……

This exactly.

PSL still posts on social media about how North Korea should be defended. Too rigid.

This pamphlet is one chapters attempt at taking all of DSA's 2010-2013 era Google Drive documents, compelling them in one place, and making them more aesthetically pleasing. It doesn't represent DSA membership or current DSA leadership. Everyone who interacts with DSA in real life knows it isn't enforced too often. White supremacy is real and can only be taken down by the multi-racial working class.

You're more predictable than the DSA

It should be defended though.

So you think I didn't care? OWS started my process of radicalization

Well that was just it, was after a while they couldn't agree what they were so upset about. They were asking to be COINTELPOZZED.
Not the ones I follow on Twitter, but to be fair I don't keep up with them that well. What I usually see is people further to the left calling out usually white shitlibs for crying cultural appropriation where it isn't.

They're optional, though, which is even better.

So much this. On the streets they act exactly like DSA and then go back to their shadowy meeting rooms and talk about outdated Trotskyism and revisionism and crap. But they hate the way DSA does things and says they're full of liberals when they're doing the exact same things but more effectively. Sure, SA has retained a bit more of its edge but that's only going to repel people.
Reluctantly though I'll admit SA and PSL have a place. They should be around if nothing else so people understand that the left is broader than one group's platform. Even if DSA doesn't change their policies at all and continues radicalizing new members, going mainstream fundamentally changes the way people interact with them and in a way they will be taken less seriously and start to be held accountable to respectability politics. If someone has to fuck shit up we'll need to count on the little guys.

This shit alone is instagulag. I would bet anything that CIA invented this shit as COINTELPRO. It's inherently divisive.

What fresh new hell do you live in?

America. I don't see how no one realizes that the US is so monumentally cucked that the best you can hope for is just some hinderance by progressive stack and light subversion.

...

I mean the best you can hope for as a burger. Obviously burgers themselves need to be quarantined for the good of the rest of the world.

>They are about to leave the Socialist International and improve their internationalism.
Can you OD on dialectics?

But isn't that just defense against fear-mongering by US and SK media and the sanctions? They aren't claiming NK is the best thing ever.

The Socialist International is shit. All the worst European succdem parties are in it.

There is a reason that white Europeans invented socialism, and POC invented mud and shit huts and are still eating bugs and dying from starvation.

This entire pamphlet was written by whites. The entire organization, "Democratic Socialist of America" was created by whites. The PDF was written and distributed by whites. The website they have was coded and written by whites. It is maintained by whites. As are the servers.

So why do whites create a council that has a progressive stack that forces the greatest thinkers, the smartest writers to be in the back of the "progressive stack". It makes zero sense. It is punishing brilliance for the sake of political correctness.

Is the goal to elevate POC up to the level of whites? Or is the goal to bring whites down to the level of POC? This progressive stack bullshit ends up handicapping whites so they are dragged down like crabs in a pot, instead of the whites offering a hand to pull the POC up to a higher level.

Really given me a lot to mull over here

...

Stalin and Marx would be forced into the back of the progressive stack and silenced so that Naquinisha could complain about Transgender queer bathroom identity politics as a higher priority than workers right.

Really gets the old noggin thinking

Your reading comprehension really is unparalleled

Actually, it was invented by jews, nigger.

wtf is the context of this picture

I think it's a BLM protest.

You have to go back.

RAPEFUGEES WELCOME!
>>>Holla Forums

youre the one that should be embarassed and considering suicide fam

did you even read what he said? obviously he doesn't support U.S. intervention. Rojava's strength *is*, in fact, due to U.S. intervention, no fucking "tankie" supports U.S. intervention "if" Assad did something wrong.

"tankies" support Assad as an actor against amerikan imperialism, Rojava being an imperial project.

wtf kind of nonsensical strawman are you trying to build up.

The fact is that DSA is being propped up by the deep state in order to take away energy from real socialist organizations.

DSA is nothing but a cheerleader for foreign American imperialism and for domestic identity politics.

Not in the slightest. While I don't believe the DSA advocates for socialism from a Marxian standpoint, neither does any Trot organization.

They want to socialize capital through collective ownership, like pretty much all "Marxist" orgs in the US. This isn't socialism, but it's certainly not neoliberalism.

DSA is a force for good only because it's convinced a lot of liberals that class matters and gives a lil bit more institutional footing to all of us who criticize liberal capitalism.

Nah, the DSA is mostly Luxemburg fans, at least in the New York chapters. Lots of vanilla Leninists too, who disagree with the insistence on majoritarianism.

While the DSA absolutely contains many liberals it's not a liberal organization. They aren't Marxists, but neither are any prominent socialist orgs in the US.

DSA is functionally no different from SAlt. All that separates them from PSL is their rejection of democratic centralism and Leninist IR theory.