Is organized crime anti-imperialist?

Read "FASCISM: What it is and how to fight it"
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

lel ok

use trotsky

Literally just politically unpopular bourg

I day dream about a sort of pan-leftist criminal organization. We kind of do what skinhead gangs do with regards to using crime as a means to finance political change.

We basically commit all types of honorable crimes and give back to the community on a very local personal level like what early organized crime groups did in America. If we're selling drugs in a lower income minority neighborhood we make sure nobody goes without. If you can't make your rent this month we help you pay it and maybe some day you return the favor and help us out in some way. We could also resolve disputes in the neighborhood before they get violent and stuff like that. We would be a people's shadow government. I have the whole thing planned out in my head; ranks, code words, qualifications to become a member etc.

Not even a trot (Libertarian Communism with Communalist Characteristics), but seriously you should read it, it's a historical analysis of previous self described fascist governments and the key features that seperate them from Authoritarian Capitalist states.

This is unironically the trend of thought that brought me into nihilism, with the "mainstream" radleft denouncing crime despite all of the poorest I know participating in informally organized crime.

Except that part. Wouldn't want to go so far just to eat dirt for it.

I'll put it behind the stirner meme book

Arent the cartels by in large CIA backed?

Literally in real life ancaps

Goddamn why are anarchists so feels>reals.

You're the retard who can't even tell the difference between private property and collective property.

By that I mean, I didn't realize my coop was capitalist just because crime triggers you.

Well okay it participates in a capitalist economy and such but you couldn't call these people capitalists, that wouldn't be right, they benefit off their own labour, there's no private property involved.

Is collective property like roads?

Where no one is charged rent to use it. I damn sure know what private property is, I bust my ass to pay rent every month.

Yes crime triggers me, what of it. Me and my family have been victimized by organized crime.

Do you know what a fucking racket is? Do you know there's more slaves in the world now then there were during the antabellium south. And that organized crime are the ones that do the trafficking.

Aren't anarchists supposed to against authoritarianism in any form? You gotta be a pol false flagger mods please ban

Collective property is also property that is collectively owned by a non-hierarchical association of workers, even if they have to participate in a market, this does not necessarily make them capitalists.

Because it's a childish idealogy.

OP has a picture of the sopranos
???

How is it anti imperialist. The mafia falls all over itself to help military intelligence arms like the CIA, in exchange for access to sweet drug markets of course.

Get over it, the lower classes are more important than one man.
Okay you've been a victim, that's bad I'm sorry for you, but that's not enough to dismiss an entire class of people as well as the entire fucking field of profitable crime.
Obviously I don't advocate for rackets and slavery.

It's disgusting of you, your intense hatred of the poor to the point you consider us all slavers,
SLAVERS!

You gonna make this fucking claim?

This is what a bunch of petty-pork and well off proles in the west do. They talk a lot about what the revolution will look like and then recoil in horror when presented with opportunity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FARC
You basically described all left wing guerilla movements, in practice they all do crimes under capitalism to finance your shit, are you sure your not a maoist?

Also I should point out that I am trying to say, because of a disagreement about the first post, that most crime and most lumpen are not in major international mobs.
This is the cornerstone of everything I'm saying.
It's all coming back to this post.

Is that you, jason?

I clicked you and forgot to type, sorry, wakenbake.
No this is why I don't understand everyone's boner for the law.

The incompetence of the american left is really something only third worldists would talk about?

Like explain to me then how you think gangs make money?

I guess by that you mean poor. Organized crime make poverty worse for proles through their rackets. If you care anything at all for the "lower class" you'd shoot them on site.

You said organized crime not, petty non violent drug addicts. Street gangs like MS13, Hells Angels, the mafia etc right?

It doesn't matter if they aren't in big gangs they are petite bourgeois. They'd seize power if porky every went away and be the new porky. Not only that they reek havoc on struggling proles with addictive drugs, violent supression of proles and they collude with the state.

what's that, you didn't know these gangs work with the state to maintain power? You are a class cuck

Rude sage

You think every criminal out there is off selling slaves and fucking with businesses?
You can have smaller enterprises of illegal goods and services that do not interfere with people's autonomy, this includes drugs, voluntary prostitution, immigration marriage, whatever. You can make these organizations non-hierarchical too.

m8 parties are doomed to failure.
We would honestly be better off trying to radicalize fucking biker gangs than trying to get market socialism up and running, yes.

You have to admit tho presently most criminals are in it to get rich, they are just illegalist porkies. Also criminals also include rapists n such, do you really like those guys? The lumpenprole who lives off the productivity of labor is just as much a parasite as the bourgeoisie. They don't produce anything of value, and they would be useless under a socialist MOP because they would continue stealing and raping and shit. This is why the lumpenprole is reactionary, they would rather keep stealing shit under capitalism than 'he who does not work, shall not eat' under socialism. As for the mob/gang bosses n shit, they want capitalism because they can continue to drive their cars and have their mansions n shit and fly under the radar, a lifestyle they will be unable to continue under socialism. A drug dealer is a lumpen-petit bourgeoisie and a drug kingpin is the height of running a business hell even the gangster disciples/hoover gangsters were run like a fortune 500 company, the literal only difference between gangster drug dealers and regular capitalists is that regular pharma was smart enough to buy politicians and the fda to make their brand of drug dealing state approved.

case in point biker gangs are extreme right wing racist and trumpists

Gangs sell addictive destructive drugs like meth now, all weed on the street now comes from pot despensories, I couldn't buy weed in fucking Nogales Mexico a fucking decade ago, much less now.

They don't care about their destructive aftermath on proles cause they are in real life an caps.

Are you in a gang, I remember Hells Angels tried to do a positive PR campaign on Reddit 5 years ago and even those backwards liberals saw right through that bullshit

Okay lel.
This is what your flag means to me.

Presently most criminals are not going to get rich at all, come on now. Presently most criminals are in it to get money to blow but it's honestly not that much even for some more busy people.
Criminals include everyone who opposes the fucking state. Do you really have a problem with those guys?
I stopped reading here.

Yes thank you for explaining my own insult back to myself.

It's anti-communist to be anti-drugs as you can't ban substances in a communist society, it's fucking impossible.

Do you honestly believe gangs don't collude with police to maintain their territory? You think they are robin hoods striking a blow to the state with their law breaking?

Where are you getting these ideas from cartoonss

Do you honestly believe you fucking don't collude with the police you fucking state socialist """market socialist""" ass fucking cop cock sucking law worshiping small business defender faggot.

They have territory that they enforce with vilolence and collusion with the state. That's private property.

They only deal drugs that maximize profit like meth.

They don't have employees?! I guess you think gangs make decisions democratically

No, we do not. You can't just make these broad generalizations holy fucking shit you lying asshole.

Motherfucker I know they do. The CIA moved coke into the US using gangs. Cops are caught on the regular being on the take. The state need poor desperate proles, and it's less work to contain gangs and collude then to persecute them like they are supposed to.

I don't worship small business, literally you do with all this cock sucking for gangs

Whatever, think like every gang is like 10 % snitches. The state and cops know what they are up to pretty much at all times. Criminal gangs are de facto wards of the state.

If proles could get ride of cops for just one day most of those gang bangers would be hanging from trees.

Criminal organizations when organized correctly can be a force for good. The state, which you advocate using instead, can not.

I've never seen one man defend the fucking law so much and then claim he's against the state.

I'm more of an Anarchist without adjectives but I do agree with Maoists quite a bit particularly on revolutionary strategies.

Who wants to start a leftist organized crime syndicate with me? Our mission will be simple, we commit crimes and enterprise (with the minimal amount of exploitation that can occur under capitalism) and fund left wing political candidates.

We would mostly deal drugs and procure prostitution things of that nature but we try and conduct it in the most ethical way possible.

Stalin robbed a bank.

Gangs victimize poor proles only, full stop.

They are profit seeking piggies. Full stop.

They never ever ever go after the state or porky. That they fight with cops all the time is a Hollywood may may, look it up, it more dangerous to be a fucking park ranger and lumber jack than it is to be a cop. There's like 12 jobs more dangerous than being a cop, it's not even in the top 10

Honestly throw in collective housing, and feeding people, and in some of the worst places something about defense, self defense, community defense, something to make people feel safe and you'll have a pretty good run.

False generalization.
False generalization.
Blatant lie.
Not entirely relevant unless you want to be a hypocrite. I don't see you being the big brave man killing cops.

Haha nice false dichotomy. If I'm against gangs then I'm for the state, nigga I know a porky when I see one and gangs are porky af.

Oh, I forgot about anarchist yugoslavia :^)

This

the quintessential Racket victim is petite bourgeois and gangs have not infrequently ratcheted that up to the bourgs themselves.

Right because all those child sex slaves they traffic came from porky families.

Gangs attack pettie bourgies all the time and the state just sits idolly by, even though the whole purpose of the state is to enforce the authority of capitalists.

Please pull head out of ass.

It should be that Fascists are ML

Whatever they're gay boys

Why learn about fascist from the enemies of fascism?
Isnt it better to go straight to the source and learn about fascism from the fascists themselves?
Eg. Mussolini, "Doctrine of Fascism"

Fascism = ML
Fascists = gay boys
That would mean that ML are gay boys too?

They're gay for each other, the war was a lover's quarrel.

ITT

Gang members and their apologists attempting to channel anger at the government into public sympathy for their criminal enterprises.

Sorry cucks, you're always going to have Damocles sword heald over you by the state, ready to sink it right into your head the moment a real bourgeoisie wants to gentrify your hood.

And your always going to be looking over your shoulder for all the proles you victimized coming after you.

Look in the bright side, your life might be commodified in a shitty rap song or movie while you rot in jail haha

...

Illegalism is a tendency

...

God you're fucking stupid.

Poor neighborhoods are dangerous because of the gangs you keep cock sucking. Poor people aren't dangerous, they're just more vulnerable to crime because they are poor.

Gangs prey on poor people, ans yet their champions of "the lower class" how?

Oops, struck a nerve. Please stop this pro gang PR campaign didn't work on Reddit 5 years ago and the people here are way smarter then that.

Thank you.

They don't.

Fuck off.

They don't have to be used like that yet you seem to insist they do. It's disingenuous and gross.

Keep lying about any and all criminal activity just because you were a victim of it once you big fucking crybaby.

...

You know what else is a crime?
Revolution.
Faggot.

This has to be a troll. We mean criminals like people that commit crimes under any system, obv not including revolution.
lumpens do not produce surplus values, they are parasites, read some fucking theory u criminal bastard

Thats right, why just dont be nice and respect the law?
Socialism will come if you will vote for it

Gangs in the USA have been known to suppress unionization of workers.

Strike organizers were beat up or worse killed.

In central and eastern europe, the connection between organized crime, politicians and local bourgeoisie is much more visible than in the west.

Why would the gangsters go against their material interests, which are only satisfied through cooperation with the ruling class.

They have nothing to gain from cooperating with the proletariat.

I don't know what agenda are you trying to push but it is pretty much visible whatever it is.

Hiring goon squads to bust unions is well known practice.

thanks, reddit

So you're a hypocrite who says your specific theory about how to change the world doesn't count as crime but everyone else? Fuck em, they're counter revolutionaries? Makes sense you're a Marxist.

DO YOU FUCKS THINK EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD NEEDS TO FUCKING WORK? NOT EVERYONE CAN, NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO, THIS IS ABSURD LABOUR FETISHISM.

There are bad criminals and there are good criminals. Bad criminals do bad things. Good criminals do good things. Let's all do good things and make the world good through good actions.

Your whole premise is based on conflating genuine crimes like rape, assault, etc. with revolution obviously both are illegal but one is to bring about a better society, the other is to simply be an asshole in any society. So no, your ability to be a gangster and go around pillaging murdering and raping is not the same as revolution and its retarded to compare the two. By your standards Genghis Khan was a fucking socialist revolutionary.
If you don't work you are living off the work of others i.e. exploiting, at least until we reach FALC venus project level automation. But i don't think lumpens are the ones advancing that, that would be scientists and engineers. How is simply stealing shit going to bring about socialism?

There is no such thing as good criminal
If you break the law you are bad and deserve punishment

My whole premise is that rape, assault, etc are not the only crimes. You people keep saying it is but that's a lie and I don't know why you keep lying.

Fuck m8, we do not need the vast majority of people to be working, we don't need those that do to work so much, it's impossible for a communist society to force people to work, you don't need FALC to have unemployed people in a communist society that's a ML meme.

As for simply stealing shit.
It won't bring about socialism but what's the fucking problem with it huh?

??? Honestly I have no fucking idea what your talking about, I said i define criminals as people who do things that we would consider bad under any mode of production. I didn't say every law under capitalism was 100% just, hell even normie centrists would agree that the laws aren't 100% good.
Is it? tbh you have no idea of the complicated chains of production involved in making something like an iphone, you unironically want the ayn rand/conservative caricature of socialism where most of the population lazes about and a few people work really hard to support them. If there's 5% unemployment that means that 95% of people still have a job, and even if some of them are bs, most of which are necessary for the system to work, even under socialism.
If you steal from poor people it makes them worse off, also if it doesn't bring about socialism the correct question isnt whats the problem with it but why do it to begin with? the whole point of being a socialist is doing things which bring about socialism

Both "private property" in the narrow sense of the term that gets thrown around by marsocs, and "collective property" allow for capitalist production. As does state property. The structure of the firm isn't what makes it capitalist, the way it relates to the rest of the economy is.

It literally is. Just because your business has an egalitarian structure doesn't mean it isn't engaging in capitalist production.

They might not be capitalists individually, but their organisation is still fundamentally capitalist. Capitalism isn't something that can be overcome through these shitty little reforms.

All that aside, I have no problem with proles engaging in illegal activity to get by (or even forming co-ops for that matter), provided they don't engage in counter-revolutionary activity. However, if a revolution begins and those same proles start resisting communisation efforts because "muh collective enterprise", then those proles need to treated the same as any other counter-revolutionary and be put down like the reactionary dogs they are.

That's a stupid way to define criminals.
Most consumer items are entirely useless and people wouldn't make them if they weren't being paid to make them because nobody actually wants them, most services can be cut down by a lot, communities can participate in collective farming, and the main point here is, it still works even if not everybody works.
Your vision of "socialism" is a nightmare I would oppose as it necessarily must require a state.
Zero posts you have ever made on this board have contributed to bringing socialism, even if it really really seemed like it.

We're as guilty of being bourgeois or petty-bourgeois as the mutualists and that's what matters.

Didn't Zizek once said the ideal revolutionary is a combination of Tony Soprano, Homer Simpson and Jack Bauer? Hmmm

What did he mean by this?

pic semi related

thats where your wrong kiddo

The italian mafia had deals with the US government during the Cold War against "ebil commies", and mafia types are usually actually reactionary, and against shit like socialism.

Let's see.
no.

daily reminder that the cia hired the mafia to kill castro

I think he meant:

The strength and willingness to be a strong leader that Soprano has

The intolerance of disobedience that Homer has

And the tactical genius and ability to think before you act that Jack Bauer has

Mafia is a reproduction of capitalism, just look at it's origins, they protected big land owners and even aristocracy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia#History