When we have universal basic income how do we make sure that all money isn't funneled to the financiers? (the landlords and the cooperate business owners)? Do we tax them more? Are some businesses going to be taxed more than others depending on how much their business hurts other people and the environment?
The amount of money that we get in universal basic income is going to be proportional to the cost of living. The cost of living is going to be whatever it costs to have the quality of life that we've decided that everybody has a right to have. Let's say that the quality of life that we've decided that everybody has a right to have as a human right is access to free fresh water, internet, food and furnished housing built for the environment (insulation in cold areas, air conditioner in warm areas).
Both the rich and the poor are going to want to do anything to decrease the cost of living as much as possible. The rich would build the cheapest apartment blocks in the world so that they wouldn't be taxed so much and the poor will happily pack themselves into these apartment blocks like sardines so that they'll have some extra money to spend on luxuries.
Not a fan of UBI. It leaves the greater mass of people as clients of the state with relatively little power of their own, completely at the mercy of the bourgeoisie. There's a reason why so many billionaires like it.
Instead, we should pursue a program of a reduced workweek and full employment.
Chase Nelson
how can it be 2017 when every other job will be able to get done by a slice of GPU silicon in a few years – and STILL believing the "full employment" meme.
Automation is coming and short of bombing every silicon foundry and Google datacentre and killing every silicon designer, you won't be able to even slow it down.
You will deal and display some adaptability around this constraint.
Ian Martin
Why should the people who don't want to work have to work enough to pay for their own cost of living when they can just aswell get the money makers, the people who want to work to pay for the neets expenses.
When we have a one world currency there won't be any new money being made. We would just pass around the money that already exists and most people don't want to compete for the money, they just want enough money to survive. Why are you so obsessed with putting people who don't care about money to work, when they don't have to work? You only need productivity when you compete against other nations.
Lucas Walker
UBI is predicated on the notion people will be able to take care of themselves if there is a stipend given to them.
Problem is, most people are fucking retarded and blow the money they make on friviolous bullshit, living well outside their means. You will have individuals clamoring for more and more while doing nothing but consume.
Reduced work hours with higher pay and full employment is honestly the more functional option.
Leo Bell
UBI is too expensive. you'd need a global capital gains tax to even approach it
maybe, hard to know for sure what percentage of people would until it's tested on a large scale obviously reducing hours of labor is the leftist choice, UBI is a scam
Colton Evans
having an over worked technician class and a permanent underclass leaching off of them is a recipe for civilization collapse people hate welfare (the propaganda version of it that exists in their heads anyway) as it is. UBI would lead to genocide and dictatorship I guarantee it. It's suicide.
Cameron Carter
The financiers will always need a stupid consumer class who can buy their products and services and funnel all the wealth to them. The internet businesses will always need the financiers who can rent ad space from them
Xavier Rivera
How is this any more of an issue with UBI instead of regular wageslavery?
Xavier James
Exactly. It's not like they're going to get more money just because they fail to pay for their expenses. It's called universal basic income because everybody gets the same amount of money
Owen Powell
yeah but the consumer class sustained by UBI wouldn't actually generate more demand than the demand being reduced by the taxation in the first place (unless you tax wealth that's not circulating and only accumulating)
Elijah Lee
That's a right wing fairy tale. There are very few people going hungry at the end of the month because they bought too many flatscreen tv's.
Charles Lee
What do you mean by demand?
Christian Richardson
Srnicek and Williams are techno shills posing as leftists. You can't demand communism, seize the means of production or abolish the commodity form! it's just not realistic! we gotta be realistic, you guise, and that means respecting bourgeoisie property relations. techno shills fuck off
proles are demanding $15 minimum wage tied to inflation
these two forces are coming at each other like high speed trains
Matthew Evans
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Christopher Russell
It took the USSR, the threat of global communism, and super profits guaranteed by US imperialism to get the capitalist class on board with various pithy social welfare states during the post-war period. They would rather everyone starve to death than pay more in taxes.
William Murphy
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Camden Davis
DEMAND FULL COMMUNISM.
Humanity will choose communism or it will choose annihilation.
Jayden Walker
i mean tbqh fam im pretty unamused
Justin Hughes
yea I think we should trust these guys
Jayden Edwards
nah they have our best interests at heart, humans are just hardware ergo they can just be thrown away. We're their property, they're the educated classes they know what's best for us, for me. So i think its unethical to not allow them to cull us en mass so they can legalize pedophilia and bestiality and play internet porn on the mandated state neuroptic feed 24/7. I really do think these degenerated balding bug hue-mans know what's best for me. I'm confident that these software developer VC dudes with high ratings for psychopathology, narcissism and mild schizophrenia are the people I want controlling my neuroptic feed and my DNA. I'm excited for my kids to be 3-D printed and taught by AI about their biology and world and i'm excited for AI to be "fact-checkers" and for "fake news" to be thought-crime. Why aren't you excited? it seems like you're being sarcastic in this post user, I think you need to go get some Soylent and some SSRI's and adjust that non-starter attitude you've got there. Everyone is gonna have a start-up/workers co-op everyone will have 3 bf's (female) and everyone will watch Rick and Morty and we'll all do research chemicals together while we masturbate each other with hitachi magic wands (we'll all have mandated clitorises so we can experience the divine female orgasm together). I'm excited user, i wish you were too, i think you just need some lithium or anti-psychotics or some vape juice user
Lucas Hill
I'm always back and forth with UBI. The reason I don't like it is because it's such a measly amount. There's no way anyone could live off of that. I also think that it makes people complacent and not want to do anything about poverty IRL. Generally not a fan. I think that the real solution is to educate people.
Jordan Rodriguez
if we get UBI, it will be because it works well within the present state of things or somehow aids its perpetuation. To dream about a capitalism which helps people/puts "people before profit" (possibly the dumbest phrase ever uttered) is to dream about a capitalism behaving in ways which are fundamentally opposed to its nature. If we get UBI, that's great, but to think about UBI in terms such as "well wouldn't it be nice if we also got this and that alongside UBI so workers benefit and not porky" is fundamentally wrongheaded.
Anthony Sanders
By overthrowing capitalism.
Isaiah Rivera
Broke: Demand UBI
Woke: DEMAND FULL COMMUNISM
Isaac Robinson
Don’t implement UBI, implement Socialism. UBI is a NEET policy.
Aaron Thompson
Everyone can become scientists, or some new job. Also a reduced workweek is an idea.
Austin Ortiz
This has been demonstrably disproven through numerous studies and pilot tests.
Kevin Gonzalez
Except you're wrong you dumbass.
Carson Thomas
Exactly my point.
Eli Davis
UBI would be very hard to fund. Paying very person in America 1,000$ a month for one year, (less then the average standard of living here) would cost the sam about as our government collects in taxes very year. It’s not mathmaticly possible.
William Rogers
UBI is a liberal farce that is only promoted by certain corporations in order to control their workers as long as they are satisfied
Juan Lee
It's literally not. You just get the chairman of the fed to go and sit down at his computer, hit the number 1, then as many 0s as he feels like. Congratulations, you've just funded UBI.
Samuel Ross
Communism scares too many people right now and it needs to be eased in slowly.
John Robinson
You’ll just make currency worthless eventually. Hyperinflation anyone.
Wyatt Fisher
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Ayden Ross
Hundreds of billions of dollars pumped into bank bailouts and quantitative easing hasn't caused hyperinflation so I don't see how UBI will.
That or go to any private bank since they also can create money out of thin air
Nicholas Miller
I'd argue that the 1% have a tendency to hoard that money and/or dispense it slowly back into the economy and secondly the Great Recession of 2008 had a significant deflationary effect on commodity prices.
So you could pump trillions and trillions into the system and thanks to the resulting inflation the only thing that really went down was the real value of the dollar as measured in gold. Their slowly tightening up credit as the inflationary effects of their policies are starting to kick in and the industrial cycle is on an upward path moving towards it nadir.
Lucas Edwards
Oh wow guys pack it in, shut down the site its time to give up.
Samuel Jones
None of the proposed solutions (both on this thread and elsewhere) are good for capitalists.
Camden Hill
A sane society would allow them to starve to death, or shoot them when they cause havoc in the streets because they did this. That other workers should be burdened with providing from these leeches is an albatross around the necks of the workers. Constantly giving these people more and more welfare only perpetuates their behavior, as there is no risk to squandering the resources provided to them through the labor of the workers. Starvation is a real risk that would end this behavior very quickly.
Hasn't porky's historical answer to such conundrums been, simply, to pretend doing whatever, but actually do it half-assed?
UBI, if it happens, will almost invariably be (or at least end up soon after institution) far below the poverty line, just like welfare and minimum wage. It will be another means to trick proles into thinking they are freer, when they are in fact still chained to the Faustian dilemma of slowly starving to death or whoring themselves out to porky at the lowest price.
I imagine UBI that meets even the scantiest realistic poverty line (especially for raising children) will be rare and brief, if and when they ever happen.
Not quite. Think of the socdem policies that petered out the Gilded Age, or the introduction of republican democracy. Both were painful concessions for porky, and meaningfully improved the lot of many proles, but both rapidly rotted away to be distorted by porky, and neither knocked porky off their throne.
It will be better for porky than simply doing nothing, because it will create another layer of underclass, similarly to the effects of immigrants (legal and illegal) on the reserve army of labor. On the flipside, even without formally putting conditions on it like welfare, they will impose de-facto conditions on UBI-dependents by having special bottom-end housing/food/utilities/transport/etc that will be the only ones affordable on UBI, all of which will come with terrifying and totalitarian conditions for use.
Oh, and that ridiculous video: >pretends anyall "deindustrialization" is due to automation >DOESN'T MENTION CONSUMPTION OR DEMAND'S RELATIONSHIP TO PRODUCTIVITY EXCEPT A SINGLE ASTONISHINGLY IGNORANT BLINK-AND-MISS-IT SNIDE REMARK AT THE END Seriously, read the EPI article I linked, it directly debunks the "studies" that video is constructed from.
Lincoln Wilson
No thanks.
Owen Campbell
No, it's saying that the overwhelming majority of our problems stem from offshoring, austerity, financialization, and other porky antics.
"Muh automation, muh modern world, muh new economy" is a blatant porkyism almost indistinguishable from "muh bootstraps, muh human nature".
Kevin Jenkins
If all industry came back, it would be automated, though.
Jonathan Lopez
The point is, that wouldn't change a thing about employment, since cheaper prices would just cause demand to increase until the labor market was exhausted again.
The only thing that can cause FALC isn't "weak AI" "automation", but a cultural shift in the zeitgeist away from consumerism.
Liam Flores
With improved spending power prices would only rise.
Wyatt Long
I was specifically referring to the effects of automated and highly productive 1st-world labor on prices, which in the long term would vastly outstrip higher consumer income.
Also, consumer income is something of a separate issue from productivity, as even massive productivity increases during the last few decades of skeletal service economy jobs show.
Luis Anderson
That stuff doesn't scare people.
Jack Lee
Except I'm not.
Jack Thomas
yeah you are you piece of shit
Jaxon Gutierrez
What do you know about people, Bugman? HAIL KACZYNSKI LONG LIVE KING LUDD KILL THE BUGMAN! KILL THE BUGMAN!
