When Debate is Too Dangerous

Yes. Please force the meme that conspiracies are a Nat Soc thing only tia

I fully support beating the living shit out of nazis when they try to make public displays of power, like marches and things like that. People advocating genocide should be no-platformed.
But we all know the word fascist means fuck all anymore, and no-platforming people because they possibly hold "problematic" opinions is bullshit.

My post makes no mention of conspiracy theories in general, just of antisemitism and Holocaust denial. But please, by all means, appropriate all the conspiracy theories you wish — we Marxists don't want them, we favor actual theory and analysis over autistic fanfiction writing.

lol you didnt even read the link OP posted like a dumb redditor

Political Correctness: The Dangers of Thought Crime Police
“Terrorism”: Fake Enemies, Fraudulent Wars
False Flags: Staged, Scripted, Mass Psy-Op Events
9/11 Truth: Ground Zero for a Resistance Movement

all 4 of those are SUPER antisemitic

It's really weird to me that this board doesn't engage with false flag terrorism, and dismisses it as right-wing conspiracy, when there is a long and well-documented history of false flag terrorism being used by fascists to further anti-communist goals.

I am well aware of the banned panels' names. I'm fairly sure Left Forum organizers had access to the content of the talks and based their accusations of antisemitism and Holocaust denial on what they read, not on fishy-sounding titles alone.

If that it isn't the case and their suspicions are proven to be unwarranted then my bad, it was indeed a bad move — but I doubt this is going to happen. That being said, it wouldn't change anything about my stance that actual antisemites and their pals should obviously not be allowed a platform at a leftist event.

As anyone who has a highschool level of science and chemistry understatement, controlling temperature and pressure are the two most crucial aspects of having a controlled gas execution.

Pics related. In one hand, we have a real gas chamber which can control its temperature, pressure, allowing for great control of substances within it. The other is the alleged nazi gas chamber, an underground passageway to the crematorium, with multiple wooden doors, no ventilation, no capability of controlling temperature.

According to the official holocaust narrative, the nazis would throw entire cans of zyklon b from the ceiling, enough to fill the entire room. The temperature that makes zyklon b airborne is close to natural temperatures, so even if you heat up the gas canister and drop it, it might not even fill the entire room since you have no control over the temperature of the room. This creates further problems, because they will presumably get the bodies straight to the crematorium, where it is very warm, so a worker could end up carrying the substance when its cold and not and then getting near a warmer place where it would become deadly. With such little control over things, the entire staff would eventually have gassed itself. These types of derivations of cyanide kill with less than 70 grams being inhaled.

But it gets worst, according to the official holocaust narrative, most camps didn't even use cyanide, but rather carbon monoxide made form tank engines.
First off, tank engines run mostly on diesel which makes very little carbon monoxide, second of call, such method would require an even more extreme control of the gas. You can breathe straight from the exhaust of most diesel engines without dying. Turns out that those engines are the least effective at making carbon monoxide, and whoever made up the story assumed they were the most deadly based on the fumes it produces.

The trials didn't quite help the main holocaust narrative. They couldn't get a single person to confess. They executed even janitors and such. And guess what, the man who allegedly ran the operations on the exterminations of millions got 15 years and was set free, while janitors and other random low wage workers got executed. Most likely because they just would convincingly state that no holocaust happened and their voice is too redundant to be purchased.

lol

go back to Holla Forums

No, there is no debate with anyone which is 'too dangerous', but I'll tell you what is dangerous: inviting holocaust deniers and ethnonationalists to speak on a platform completely unchallenged for several hours allowing them to propagandise in the most palatable way while you just sit there and nod saying things along the lines of 'oh, that's interesting, I've never thought about it like that before'.

the doors were fucking wooden in the so called gas chambers (delousing chambers really)

one of these ethnonatioanalists talks was titled " Political Correctness: The Dangers of Thought Crime Police" so I guess leftypol are ethnonationalists too according to you

I think the left should be most absolutely for free speech and expression.
Not only is it the right thing to do, but it's a good strategy too. Pic related.

It is not unsubstantiated.
youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE

We often forget how much of the holocaust narrative was already trimmed town and made obscure, such as:

Non-platforming fascists in socialism? That's perfectly fine.

Non-platforming fascists in western capitalism? Absolutely retarded. You are deliberately creating an atmosphere that will get yourself non-platformed eventually.

Controlling pressure and temperature is probably good if you want better efficiency, but is not really necessary.

And I see no reason why diesel would produce less carbon monoxide, the most important thing to produce that is to limit air supply. Type of hydrocarbons is not relevant, unless you're talking about heat going out or percentage water vapor…

To be honest that image applies pretty much to myself.

I don't see why we should reactionary opinions allow under socialism, but I totally see how free speech is important for our own existence in capitalism.

Trying to suffocate hundreds of people behind a wooden door wouldn't be a very successful method of execution. Furthermore, any diesel engines also ends up pumping out lots of oxygen.

imgur.com/a/725A7

I'm not a fan of officially no-platforming or whatever because it's gay, but all efforts should be exerted to make it an unattractive and unwelcoming place because certain opinions are just shit tier and boring. Star Trek conventions should be specifically unwelcoming to people who hate Star Trek and just want to piss everyone off, or who just want to bore people.

I would consider myself broadly a free-speech absolutist in principle, but for practical political terms I'm very flexible.

The "marketplace of ideas" is retarded. The discussion more-or-less isn't about reality, but about rhetoric. Free speech just means you get into a game of implications with the right - and I mean, that's fine. Beat them at that game, but don't pretend it's an intellectual game. It's a game of misleading plebs.

Now here's the other problem with that: Dosh. What, you think you're just going to sit down and sling it out? Nah, the right are fucking loaded with dosh: bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/fdb484c8-99a1-32a3-83be-20108374b985

In truth all tools should be used. Rhetoric sometimes, subtle censorship at others, and violence that can't be directly linked back to you at yet other times. War by other means.

This is why you just punch nazis in the jaw. This already-shit thread is now completely irrecoverable.

jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians

the holocaust is hard science and its illegal to question but whoops actually only 6 million jews died and the 5 million non jew. number was flubbed. WE SWEAR THO THAT IT REALLY WAS 6 GORILLION!!!

Seems like the only things that needed better explanations were not explained, but instead, he focused on strawmaning all points raised. This is the generic plebbit style "debunk".

Why would a diesel engine be pumping out oxygen. That makes no sense. Let me give you a little bit of info on chemistry.
The world is made of molecules. These are made of atoms. Atoms never change, unless in nuclear reactions. They just rearrange in different molecules.
So in the case of diesel, which is mostly molecules of carbon and hydrogen atoms, you need oxygon to turn the respective carbon atoms into carbon dioxide (two oxygen atoms) molecules, and hydrogen atoms into water molecules. This costs oxygen.
If there is not enough oxygen, carbon monoxide (single oxygen atom)

I don't even know fuck all about the Holocaust and I can already smell bullshit.

You are completely ignorant to what you are talking about. No engine burns oxygen at 100% efficiency.
The world is made of molecules. These are made of atoms. Atoms never change, unless in nuclear reactions. They just rearrange in different molecules.
Nice unrelated LARPing there.

ah yes the famous, esteemed scholar

Would giving "no platform" democratically in a forum be better?

That account is just mirroring the video you dunce. And yes, that video is substantiated. Watch the video and make a counter argument otherwise gtfo.

how about we stay on the topic instead of de-railing the thread like it's a German express train passing a bridge?

What a completely faux "debunk". It takes all points made and slowly slides them into an unrelated strawman that the historical revisionists never actually made, while pretending their actual points don't exist.

You may say this is of topic but I say it's just proving the point that fash don't deserve speech

Streisand effect is unavoidable in the [current year]. No-platforming Milo was super effective. It only got him on Real Time with Bill Maher. Better off just letting the racists speak and people going "wow these people are racist" than make it harder to find out what they say, postponing uninformed people from finding out and giving the racists an air of mystery and "forbidden fruit". The urge to be a bigot is the urge to be simplistic in thought, and stoking that is a Bad Idea.

Bill Maher is just a contrarian shitheel, he would happily invite Hitler on his show if he claimed to be for free speech, people like Milo are liars, they don't outright say 'let's put all non whites in death camps', they hide behind the standard Republican arguments pushing the envelope a little each time

And milo is widely associated with pedophila now. I don't think we need to disrupt every single non-socialist event, but not debating the same disingenious points every day, like the race realism threads we have here weekly, or giving a spot to reactionaries isn't stiffling their free speech.

Engines don't produce oxygen. They consume it. You implied the opposite.

Everything at Left Forum is intended to be an actual forum with audience participation and interaction however.

Refusing to give someone a platform isn't censorship you fucking crybaby.

How can one man be so upset?

A panel on political correctness sounds like one of the more important panels to have at Left Forum, it's a shame they're too politically correct to have a discussion.

there is no situation where "debate is too dangerous" unless you can`t handle it

Except almost all of them?

Look at this and get BTFO. Unless you accuse the Nazis of lying making shit up.

I'm German so I can give you plenty of sources from the Nazis themselves.

it must be real because the good guy allies used it in the trial of the century!!!!

The guy responsible for this shit signed this.

Germans are pretty finicky people, they write everything down.

where are the bones then? incinerators back then were not hot enough to carbonize bones. where are the 6 (or 11) million bones???

ad-hoc unverified, highly dubious claim without citation count as initiated now: #1

It's like Antifa might be good if they knew what fascism actually is. They seem to be under the impression that "fascism" means the racist, sexist patriarchy.

M8, they are finding mass graves in Ukraine every day.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2010/10/mass-graves-and-dead-bodies.html?m=1

livescience.com/44443-treblinka-archaeological-excavation.html

If you dig randomly arround the area of Treblinka, it's very likely you stumble over human remains. Face it, unlike the so-called Holodomor there is actual physical evidence that the Holocaust happened.

He's right.

bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

Yet they do indeed find bones everywhere near the death camps.

Can you explain why so many high ranking Nazi's at the Nuremberg trial either used the defense of "just following orders" or proudly admitted they had attempted to exterminate the Jew's and laughed at what they'd done.

I expect you just ignore this comment because I've never seen this question answered by a holocaust denier. Afaik the only one who denied what he'd done was Hess, if the whole thing was a sham then why weren't the Nazi party members more indignant.

I maintain my scepticism was valid (in particular because "In most crematoria today, bones remain intact and have to be ground down to produce ash." points out it's something that still occurs as opposed to being a restriction limited to the past - but in saying so it includes another possible reason for the lack of bones - the reason we're not inundated with bones…) but I take the point.

You are a tankie
You are a rightie

I can predict the answer to this will be that they were forced to do this somehow through drugs or whatever, even though they were going to rot in jail forever.

They will tell you that they have confessed under torture. Which could be a legit argument but it's very, very unlikely that all accused in the Nürnberg trials have been submitted to torture. I'm not saying that the Nürnberg trials where a peak example of fair jurisdiction (they weren't) but they still hold historical value. Jurisprudence and historical studies are two different institutions which review two different values.

The thing is only Alfred Speer actually outright confessed. Most of the rest offered some version of a defence where they admitted the crimes had happened but said they couldn't be held responsible. There is no possible reason to do this other then the fact they knew they were guilty.

Yet you give yourself a platform

The very act of speech suppression (or "no platforming") requires a hierarchical structure to execute it, it's inherently right wing.

Then why are you on the internet?

The point is that objectively bad ideology might confer elements of truth, and then it is more beneficial to ban it altogether, because then the sheeple will steer clear of it while the edgelords will gobble it up bait and hook.

Fucking retards.

yeah finding mass graves in a country that suffered one of the worst famines (and war massacres) of all time.

most of them were going to die anyway. Why confess. oh it was because terrible hideous violence was going to be used on their loved ones if they did not.

Yeah, but nowadays the idea of free speech is taboo in the left, because of the idpols and tankies.

The way I see them is like:

I don't get this. It is like some leftists have this notion where a person cannot possibly hear fascist propaganda without getting instantly converted.

It is a very funny thing that the same group that constantly talks about gassing jews is the same group that fervently denies that any jews were ever gassed. It is like trying to deny your greatest achievement.

Yeah, a tankie obviously would not want anybody to speak ill of daddy state. God forbid anyone want actual communism instead of state capitalism with socialist aesthetics.

Next you will be saying: denying people the right to express their opinions publicly isn't censorship.

Oh, fuck off.

The same reason as you: Pornography and Genocide photography.

thid

all ideologies are bad, all speech should be banned