In the rambling letter made public Tuesday, bin Laden blamed the 2007-8 U.S...

It's a jab at the people who are acting like this man was some kind of socialist revolutionary

but user marxist leninism was imperialist authoritarian shit that deserved to be destroyed to pave the way for actual socialism :^)

also I said 'borderline' class concious

I mean he wasn't, but not because he fought against the soviets who were pretty far removed from socialism at that point

y'know, I heard the pilot screamed "ALLENDE ALLAH UH AHBKAR" right before the plane hit

I do legitimately think that a non-spooked bin laden would have been a true revolutionary

Honestly the neocons still seem to be pursuing this policy with posturing over Syria and N. Korea. And the economy is fucked in the long-term anyway, the perfidious 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧anglo🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 will be stopped one day.

ITT: reason #9836954 why technocratic economic policy will always be better than populism

Well yeah, Osama underestimated the ability of capitalism to bailout the banks and rob the treasury and continue moving over the bones of the workers but ultimately he wasn't wrong, the US will fall

...

dipshit, if we didn't bail out the banks, there probably would have been a a depression.

Yeah, instead the economy is still in recession for everyone except the super rich and the US is more unequal now than the Roman Empire was, great success

so wtf would you have? 20-25% unemployment? stock market

Bin Laden, regardless of how moral anything he did was, was still pretty damn cool.

He was a billionaire, he had 5 wives, fought the most powerful country on the planet and died in a climactic showdown after being the most wanted man on the planet for a decade. Fucking way to live.

better than whatever the masses could mandate at the very least

t. succdem

i fail to see how is that bad. people would got mad after losing all their savings and they would have start massive riots and no more capitalism.
But of course they knew this too damn well, so the banks were bail out throught western countries.
This is why ancaps are awesome! their "real capitalism" wouldn't survive more than 5 years.

The old system needs to die to build a new system. Are you a liberal?

LMAO, that wouldn't have caused communism! Lets go back to the haymarket affair; every single communist chapter was screaming that that would lead to a revolution, did it? No. Or how about the great depression? It wouldn't have lead to communism, it would've led to poverty.

Have enough of those crashes and people start to notice the system isn't working.

Stop! My penis can only get so erect!

We already had near 20% unemployment measured by the U-6 which is how unemployment was measured in America all the way up until the Clinton era. Even today the U-6 is just barely below 10% and most serious economists will acknowledge this fact, the fact that we had major widespread unemployment on par with other major crises of capital (like the Great Depression) is just not refutable. The medicine that was administered took nearly decade till have any effect, its only now that we're seeing a high demand for labor and slight wage-growth. There's no proof that refusing to bail-out the banks would've made things worse over the long haul then it turned out to be except a lot of neoliberal prattling over the "end of capitalism" which would've been desirable

Yes and you know how they fixed it? Glass Steagle, not some communist utopia. Communism will come on it's own eventually.

The only reason it didn't lead to revolution is that it was possible to rehabilitate capitalism. One day it won't be possible.

Ok, I'm a working class American, I don't want to lose my job to some fucking thought experiment, again, just have a seat, and wait, eventually there will be a revolution on its own.

fuck yeah I'm so euphoric rn, I love be a rational atheist male feminist social democrat. I'm so in line with the times, i'm so modern. Wowowowowowowwowowowowowowwowowow

No, I'm a leftcom dipshit. And, you know that after glass Steagle, there was no major recession for 50 years? You're thinking of Dodd Frank.

The decline is unavoidable under capitalism. In order to avoid it, power needs to be transferred before the conditions that would mandate a revolution occur whether suddenly through a crash/depression or through a slow burn like we're getting anyway.

There will be but the question is how long do you want to wait? The proletariat will awake and you can be one of those people that helps that process or you can stand to the side and/or try to put band-aids on the system.

Haymarket inspired socialists all over the world which helped catalyze the process that lead to the Russian Revolution. The Great Depression saw the CPUSA grow to be the largest communist party in American history with 100,000 members. Hardcore right-wing reactions followed both.

After WWII, the capitalists decided that they wanted to erase the memory of the "red 30s" and the way to do that was by making it impossible for any leftist to make a living in Hollywood or any other cultural center that influenced American and global culture.

A revolution would occur when we reach a post scarcity society on its own, but in the modern world, the farthest we're get is succdem.
bro, ww1 lead to the russian revolution. And I can guarantee you people were off a lot worse than before. Fucking Marx warned about premature revolutions.

There were no bank crises, but plenty of recessions in the real economy. Ask any working class family member or friend old enough about the crises in the 70s or the Reagan Recessions, I bet you won't get stories of happy memories.

critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/the-five-industrial-cycles-since-1945/
critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/the-five-industrial-cycles-since-1945/reagan-reaction-and-the-great-moderation/
critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/the-five-industrial-cycles-since-1945/from-the-1974-75-recession-to-the-volcker-shock/
critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/the-five-industrial-cycles-since-1945/the-industrial-cycle-and-the-collapse-of-the-gold-pool-in-march-1968/
critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/the-five-industrial-cycles-since-1945/the-u-s-economy-in-the-wake-of-the-economic-crisis-of-1957-61/

70s were due to oil, and reagan basically killed Glass Steagle.

After Glass-Steagel there was a global war that killed tens of millions and left the United States as the sole intact manufacturing center in the capitalist world. As for the "no major recession" bullshit, the energy crisis and the Reagan era recessions devoured the rest of the surplus from the war boom.

the proletariat are too stupid to wake up. Evidence? The fact that the elected a republican after 2008.

That's nice and all, but you are aware there's more on the line than your shitty job right? Extinctions thanks to environmental destruction are non-reversable. The massive amount of suffering due to capitalism is non-reversable. Every day capitalism exists several tragedies far worse than you losing a fucking job happens. You should really reconsider your position of being a capitalism apologist.

But where revolution happened and where it was successful came down to those who held the line? Haymarket didn't lead to the Russian Revolution but it inspired people like Lenin, so when the shitshow that was WWI happened they were ready to take action to meet the revolutionary conditions. A lot of socialists and anarchists failed to seize that revolutionary moment that came with WWI, those who propagated the need for revolution when times were "good" were the ones that ended up being the most successful.

Trump is a billion times better than Hillary.

The differences between bourgeois politicians is irrelevant.

He's only the antithesis to Marx…

...

So why bitch about republicans?

Hillary is basically a republican anyway

Source?

you know, I have a good deal of nazbol tendencies and even I think you need to shut the fuck up

the only thing Trump has over Hillary is his supporters are less bough, everything about his policy has been complete garbage

Which is why he's so necessary. People need to experience the worst capitalism has to offer with their own eyes before they take matters into their own hands. People are far more politically involved thanks to him than they ever were under Obama.

I brought that up to point out that there were better alternatives in the race(not to shill for hillary(whom I didn't bring up))

Read the CoCT links I supplied and maybe Andrew Kliman. Oil politics weren't the only factor but in fact the massive inflation that followed going off gold and the decline in profitability were the determinative factors.

He wasn't our guy, look at how he treated the Afghan left.

But he was a savvy political leader who wanted to build sympathy among antiwar elements in the west, and probably genuinely opposed some aspects of US imperialism.

I don't get why we keep discussing what the best revolutionary tactics are when the most obvious one is to just become a Republican and do away with transfer payments. We should strive to make capitalism as unbearable as possible, as quickly as possible, and create as much suffering as possible, to stir the people to revolution. The best part is, the bourgeoisie will be happy to go along with it.

I'll take a look at Kliman, but post-war recessions are natural.

There really weren't though. Even Jill Stein was an anti-vaxxer terrified of fucking cell phone radiation.

Because they are liberal capitalists.

Then how would you explain the 57-61 crisis which took place when America wasn't in any major war and more then a decade after WWII? Assuming you can explain away the 53 recession as being caused by the end of the Korean war, it doesn't follow that the 57 crisis was caused by the end of that war since it was 4 years later and it wasn't near as large in scale as WWII.

Also, the fact that the1948-49 recession took place 3-4 years after WWII had ended instead of with the end of WWII is telling. Its a sign that the business cycle that Marx had written and described had resumed and held valid in the Post-War world even if that recession wasn't Great Depression or even 1974-tier.

Also, Glass-Steagall was only repealed in 1999 it doesn't really explain the 80s recessions.

Proofs or you don't get your $.002 for correcting the record

yes, but by the 80s Reagan basically gutted it.

m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=IGQjaSJP2Xg
I was wrong on antivax though
snopes.com/is-green-party-candidate-jill-stein-anti-vaccine/
I probably mixed it up with her anti evolved plant stance which is just as rediculous
jill2016.com/fb_ad_gmos

No, not in 2008, not ever.

Think about it for a second. Did the repeal of Glass-Steagall cause the deregulation of finance and thus a crises of capital? Or did the relentless drive of capital for ever-greater profit lead to the political pressure that caused the gutting of Glass-Steagall?

Everything that became legal and normal practice in the 80s and 90s was already being done in the 60s and 70s via the Eurodollar/Eurobond market centered on London that was completely deregulated since its inception.

You're confusing cause and effect here. They merely made what they were already doing legal and the prime cause of that shift in business ethics and law was the decline of profitability in the above-ground economy as well as a decline of profit in the industrial sector which favored the rise of finance where big profits were being made "underground" so-to speak.

No one in this thread actually thinks he is, relax. But it is worth talking about how far anti-imperialist action and causing the conditions necessary for revolution is actually helpful

Damn reactionary religious bullshit.

Instead, we got the 2nd worse collapse of capitalism other than the Great Depression. Let me repeat that again because people don't say it enough.

The Great Recession of 2008 was worse than every other bust in capitalism's history normally referred to as a depression other than the Great Depression itself.

Deciding whether to call something a recession or depression is semantics, and the fact that they haven't called this one a depression is pure apologism from the neoclassical economists desperately clinging to relevance trying to make it not seem as bad as it is. Furthermore, bailing out the banks without sending one of those fuckers to jail and is exactly why the next recession could be the full-blown Great Depression-tier event people were afraid of in 2008. Look at this animation. Instead of doing the sensible thing and breaking up these monsters of centralized capital, the big banks were allowed to consolidate and because even bigger and pose even greater systemic risk to the economy than they did before.

What's going to happen when the next recession happens (likely triggered by student loan or car loan default this time) and they demand more bailouts from a government already trillions of dollars in debt?

and become even bigger*

Bin Laden fought /our guys/. Everyone saying that he could have been, well he could have, if he was someone else, with a different name and face, and would have killed Bin Laden and would be occupying his position of power.

As compared to a neoliberal war profiteer and a neoliberal casino magnate and reality television star.

I really dont trust him after he waged war against soviet union in afghanistan.

We're in a depression.

The banks should have been nationalised while businesses were bailed out and individuals were given a debt jubilee.

Also every neoclassical economist should've been forced to walk down wall-st with their pants down in a giant display of metaphor.

How about full employment, 4% overall economic growth, and wage growth in real terms?

Financial regulations are inherently self defeating. If successful, the period of stability they create lets policymakers get lax and deregulate.

Like Glass Steagle!

Relatively minor recessions in my understanding.

Although vis-a-vis going off the gold standard and so on, this would've been avoided if we'd listened to Keynes at Breton Wood and taken control of trade balances.

I mean, I think the more telling thing is that while recessions happened they didn't murder the economy like the increasingly violent financialised recessions we've had since.

The 80s recessions were operating along similar lines (even with Glass-Steagall in place, the banking sector was already quite powerful - actually it was already quite powerful in the 1960s - but by the 80s Ponzi finance had really taken off.)

I would posit something of a third way: While obviously it was capital's drive for profitability, to some extent this is also managable. The problem is that it was financial capital's drive for profitability. Industrial capital suffering the worst as the gambling schemes of the financial-sector make simply borrowing to invest in real world production more difficult and risky than need be.

Of course there are other possible root causes to that too, but it's something that's dawned on me more and more recently. (Since when thinking along socdem lines, I basically find myself in a full alliance with the porkies of the real economy who hold a role - however notional and exploitative - in getting real shit done, unlike the financial sector which is basically capital masturbating.)

To be fair, jailing the bankers wouldn't have done that much. The problem wasn't so much bad bankers (though they did exist) as bad systems. Put in new guys, and you'll get the exact same thing repeating itself because of the way we treat banks as a whole.

It's a shame you can't jail institutions.

Yeah that's why he fought the USSR for the CIA.

It's a joke about the Italian ML party supporting ISIS and the meme tankies on twitter being autistically anti-imperialist

It's more that he's like Alex Jones. He could see something was wrong and came annoyingly close just to sperg out and focus on the wrong enemies at the lest second. But he was more class conscious than your average catatonic lib.

I stand in solidarity with Sheikh Osama bin Laden in his struggle against Western imperialism.

I would have the banks nationalized, the bankers shot, and all industry gradually brought under state or worker ownership. But that's just me, you can give trillions of dollarios to the frauds if you want.

Bin Laden was a patriot and anti-imperialist and doesn't deserve to have his name dragged through the mud like he does now.

top kek

he did. bin laaden was a fucking LARPER and a nerd and managed to single handidly bring jihadism to the limelight in the 21st century. dude used to write a fucking magazine about the cringiest islamic 19th century larp shit ever. he was literally just the muslim equivilant of a Holla Forums larper

How is he a LARPer? If anything he's the anti-larper since he actually went out and walked the walk instead of just playing dress up

threadly reminder that bin laden had his brains blown out in front of his screaming wife and children by an american death squad during a violent home invasion

fuck off retard

you would know if you read his cringey ass fan fics he made 10 years before 9/11

also he never actually DID 9/11, he just paid 10 other guys who were hardcore and suicidal about islamic autism at the time to attack america for no reason other than "saudi arabia is going for american help instead of ours to combat ba'athism and secularism in the middle east". osama didnt give two shits about the iraqi people or israel, its why he offered to fight a war against iraq on the gulfs behalf but the gulf went with america instead.