Today is Memorial Day. Post all your anti soldier stuff

Shit like this makes me an unironic Third Worldist. Bunch of business man die in a terrorist attack and for these faggots it's the biggest tragedy ever and "the day the earth stood still".

Meanwhile the USA has killed millions of people in the middle east and still does it

Oh fuck you mods. This is getting ridiculous. Stop bumplocking every thread that you slightly disagree with.

Also it's a day for remembering the dead and the vast vast majority of those dead were conscripted barely not a kid proles who were forced to go fight, kill and die for some porky shithead getting rich off of the war.

600 billion dollar budget is not welfare kek. What do you do in the military base on foreign soil? Besides smoking weed, raping female locals and posting on anonymous image boards that is…

Memorial day originated when people noticed that dead Union soldiers were just dumped into mass graves. After they finally got them a cemetery, this was the day to decorate their graves. This holiday is not about those living soldiers. This is about those who died. It's a day of mourning and remembrance. If you want to make this socialist, think of all the soldiers who had to fight, who had no choice, and think that this must never be allowed to happen again. War is not for profit.

Piss off, don't bully your comrade just because he was forced to join the army to have any kind of income and healthcare.

kill yourself imperialist scum.

Kek. I guess you must want every worker at an oil well to die too, or everyone who works as an engineer for any company that provides products to the DoD. But you know who is the absolute worst? Those that pay their taxes. If you pay your taxes, you are directly funding military. Quit your job and stop paying taxes, or you're just as bad as me. :^)

If enough of you faggots become drags on the economy, the state will collapse and I won't have a job, just like you. Remember, if you're not willing to ruin your life like you've asked me to do, you're not committed enough to socialism.

Dont worry tovarish I still love you.

Just shoot some theocrats and turks for me, ok?

There is nothing bad about being a solider.

Depends on what you are fighting for.

Memorial Day is a weird holiday for me, on one hand I admire the bravery of these dudes to go off to war, but also the wars they fought were just ways for capital and state to assert their will on the global stage.

I honor the dead but not their fight.

Sounds spooky as fuck.

...

How about actually shitting on the people with power who send proles to go die in war?

Lets face it, look at that first image. All millenial socialists are just libertarians but nonwhite. No difference.

Nazism is the only way for you. Look at the replies to you, those are not out of compassion but from hatred. You don't belong with them.

Fuck self righteous mercenary welfare whores.

DURR BLESS THE MILITARY GOD!

I bet the people shitting on soldiers in this thread are in league with Porky.

or maybe they're just sick of the culture of soldier worship

If they are leftists then they should not get offended.

Fuck France. Hitler was a hero for bringing down the British and French colonial empires.

How was he forced to join exactly? Also nobody here is comrade of anyone you LARPing faggot.

Soldiers are the primary victims of imperialist statism.

yeah, the people they kill and the countries they destroy really have it better

...

Soldiers on both sides faggot.

That's the whole point of today, even if you aren't a socialist. It's about remembering the dead soldiers that for a long time didn't even get a proper burial. Soldiers used to be thrown away like literal garbage and put in mass graves with no marker. This is about honoring them, who live shit lives and died shit deaths. I don't know why this thread was un-bump-locked, but this thread simply needs to go.

You disgust me.

I'm not white, so you can go fuck yourself.

Maybe you shouldn't be a fucking faggot.

...

Is it brave to be a slave, too? There's nothing admirable about going off to a foreign land to kill/be killed by your fellow workers.

Lmao

Or they could just, y'know, not enlist. Crime is a better alternative to enlisting.

do you honor the heer and waffen-ss too?

Both you and the bourgeoisie never get tired of asking soldiers and marines to do shit for you. How about you quit your job and stop paying taxes so that you can take away money from the war machine? Not willing to live on the street for your ideals? Then you have no room to ask others to do that for you. Kill yourself, faggot.

If nobody worked, we'd win in a day.

Then you go first. Quit your job and become a criminal. Oh, also you can't buy from any company that does evil things ever or companies that benefit from the war, otherwise you're contributing to the same war.

Go fuck your asshole with the sharpest, longest knife in the whole world.

...

Being a soldier or a police officer is going above-and-beyond participation in the system.

It's going out of your way to defend the most violent, depraved parts of the system. It's on par with joining the CIA for any reason other than infiltration. It is absolutely disgusting.

that's not exactly the same as personally dropping a bomb on a country or shooting someone

the issue is not that the job "offends people," it's that it involves killing and destroying on behalf of the state

I'll buy whatever I want, but otherwise, okay.

No it isn't. Prove it. Is it more visible? Yes, but every single part of society works for the ideology of the day. Just because you don't like that particular job doesn't make it any worse, nor does it make those people have any more of a choice. What other choice do you have for someone that wants to get an education and doesn't have the money? What about those that already joined and have no skills but want to eventually retire with a bit of money? You would have these people ruin their lives just to appease your sensibilities. You are the worst kind of liberal.

And if you buy apple products or anything made in China, you are going out of your way to buy from companies guilty of some of the worst atrocities in modern time. Don't buy oil, and don't do anything that isn't made by your own hands. Ruin your life for me.

Spare me your bullshit. Not all of us were born with money or are content with living in the trailer park for the rest of our lives. I'm glad I was a soldier and I'm glad I grew to be the person I am today. The socialist movement is going to need soldiers and you aren't it. I don't fault you, you're just a liberal faggot that can't see beyond their own sensibilities. Remember that liberals get the bullet too.

...

Most every industry involves killing and destroying on its own behalf. If you don't like it, then please stop paying for it and evade taxes. That's the least you can do if we're being honest.

Then you're just as bad as a soldier. Spare me your holier than thou attitude.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Yes, you should be so proud. Soldiers really are top-tier human beings. I envy your ability to gruesomely kill other people and destroy their homes. How do you even manage to so bravely drop bombs on people who can't fight back? I salute you.

Wow Lefty pol has way more undercover bootlickers than I thought.

not much of an argument, sorry

Including mods.

At least one mod is a military apologist. Don't forget that and tread carefully.

You know, I think it's great that you think that just shitting on soldiers, you're going to get them on your side. Yes, your liberal tactics of shaming those that don't fit your mould of perfection is totally going to work and not just make every veteran and soldier think that they're better off just shooting you in the face. You're totally going to help socialism this way and not at all divide the proletariat, you stupid fucking liberal.

...

I welcome soldiers who renounce their actions and join the ranks of proles, just like I welcome any former bourgeoisie or bourgeois enforcers.

I don't welcome people who don't think there's anything wrong with joining the military or killing other proles overseas. That's fucked.

Rev up that lifestylism, you stupid liberal.

I think you need to go back to /r/socialism where they'll ban you if you don't hate soldiers and veterans and try to make them apologize for existing.

I don't think you should be banned, you mongoloid. I'm pissed that a mod thought it was appropriate to bumplock this thread. That mods is 100% a military imperialist apologist and should be stripped of their position ASAP.

You do realize the fact that some veterans have literally fought against communism right? You can't convert these fucking idiots.
God forbid that people actually have some sort of principles and don't want to wash down their ideology just to appease a bunch of bootlickers.

You better not use any product of capitalism, or you're benefiting from those same killers.

I didn't tell anyone here to join the military, and frankly, I'd do it again if I had to. It got me an education and a steady paycheck instead of poverty for the rest of my life. What would you have me do? As for killing people, nobody I shot at ever deserved otherwise. Unless you think that theocrats overseas are totally cool because they're shooting Americans.

corruption apologists like you will be shipped out the gulag.

This thread is bait aimed at dividing the working class. Soldiers are just like you only they have a job you don't like. This is Holla Forums bait and you are falling for it.

are you seriously going to justify and make apologia for those who personally drop bombs and pull triggers? "yeah my air force buddies carpet bombed viet nam but it's ok 'cause we're all part of one big system"

that you equate buying a product of capitalism with physically ending human life under orders is really warped

if you take a shit on the army, who is going to defend you then?
i mean at least have a second bed ready if you are about to shit in your first one for no reason

listen, you arent really entitled to any security or defense in this world, you can be a pacifist all you want but that's not going to stop the other guy, is it?
i mean idk what's your back up plan when you take a shit on the current one, shitting on things is only valid if you have a better thing instead to replace it with

Gee, no mention of WHO these wars are for.

Bro, I'm not saying you weren't in a tough position or that joining the military didn't make sense.

I'm saying that the military encourages a behavior and mindset that is totally incompatible with being a socialist, as evidenced by the fact that you think insurgents fighting invaders bombing their homes "deserved" to get shot.

Soldiers are wage workers, but since they fight on behalf of the bourgeoisie and imperialists (and, as a result, develop bourgeois class consciousness), they can't properly be considered members of the working class.

And you do realize that memorial day was started to honor those that literally fought against slavery, right? Also:
I'd fight those faggots too.

Well I'm one of those fucking idiots, so how about you go fuck yourself with those notions?

Nobody here is saying you should worship soldiers. We just want to be treated equal and not be told that we're ebil babbykillers, because we're fucking not. We want the same thing, and you're going to need soldiers on your side. Weak liberals are not the revolutionary forces of tomorrow.

Good luck, faggot. I'm sure your shaming tactics will totally win the revolution instead of well-trained and ready soldiers.

fuck off rightist

top argument, friend

by whom? mexico? fuck off newfag

you need help

I don't know of anyone that "personally" dropped a bomb, but I was a trigger-pulling grunt. What do you want me to do? Apologize for wanting to leave poverty when the military gave me the chance? No, I'm not going to do that. We're all whores in capitalism, except you seem to think your whoring is better than mine all while you have a dick in your mouth.

Well one of my buddies was a PJ in the airforce and all he did was patch people up after they got shot, and yes that included the natives, some of whom stepped on IEDs set up by the insurgents. But I'm sure you think he's a monster too.

So your exploitation of other humans is more excusable because it's not obvious? The end result is the same no? You benefit from my supposed killing of others. You benefit by stable oil prices, steady supply of shit from the third world, and relative immunity from war due to having the larges military in the world, and you'll still bitch about it because my evil is more visible than yours. I know what I did isn't a positive thing for most of the world, but I'm not the one pretending that his shit doesn't stink.

If a revolution comes, a good chunk of the soldiers will refuse to kill their own countrymen and will instead join the prole uprising.

That chunk isn't gonna give a flying fuck if some of us criticized their job in the mean time.

Why are the troops so fucking butthurt?

Those insurgents are fucking theocrats that regularly raped women and children before we got there, cut hands off of thieves and made their homeland a living fucking hell. Then they shot at me, and guess what, if you shoot at me, then you deserve to get shot. I never got in a firefight with someone that didn't want one. The only exception is an ambush on faggots setting up IEDs on roads where civilians passed daily. You think they didn't deserve that either?

That's complete bullshit. All labor as is currently is to the benefit of the bourgeoisie. Else you should argue that firefighters work for the bourgeoisie because their main goal is putting out fires on private property, or that bank workers of all kinds are exploiting the other workers.

...

Really, faggot? Even a true worker's state would fight that piece of shit government. I never said that the actions of the US were right, but the NVA needed to go.

anyone from iran to serbia to best korea to russia to china to half of the world together combined
you do realize that half of the world intensely hates united state with a passion, right?

not liking a thing =/= a solution
everyone has a thing he doesnt like, doesnt make them special

Of course they are cool because they are shooting americans. You are a cultureless american barbarian and everybody in your retarded country deserves to be killed.
Killing americans should never be considered a crime. They are nothing but barbarians mouth watering with world domination and making the the whole world as retarded and cultureless as their country. There isn't a single one worth to be saved. Not one.

Nobody is saying you can't criticize the job, but these faggots seem to think that you have to shit on soldiers personally, which I think is counterproductive.

Because some faggots here seem to want to look down on us while still wanting us as allies, or simply saying that we're not reall socialists because we held a job they don't like. How would you feel if everyone shit on you because you held a job that you didn't really like and that you really would have rather not done if you had a choice? Even when we are socialists, it seems soldiers have to apologize just for having been soldiers. Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize. I'm not sorry that I was a soldier, and I never will be. I am what I am today because of it, and I am proud to be a socialist today.

So go after the bourgeoisie and imperialists coward.

it is, since i haven't invaded a country or killed its inhabitants. for anyone with a functional moral compass, this shouldn't be hard to grasp
what do you want me to do? live in the woods and use only that which i obtain for myself? rhetoric is really boring
nope
excusable isn't the word or the sentiment. the issue is active killing vs being subject to a wider system
i never said you personally. everything i've said has been a hypothetical on the issue of killing and taking orders. you're just defensive because like most soldiers you can't stand any sort of critical discussion on the military, which is why threads like this occur

yes really. you are saying that you would have participated in the greatest post-wwii crime and atrocity of the 20th century. you are badly infected with american militaristic ideology. that you accuse others of "liberalism" whilst justifying something as horrific as the destruction of viet nam is just mind-boggling. you're really unpleasant and if you're at all representative of other supposedly-sympathetic military personnel, people should be very worried

i don't want you as an ally. frankly i wish people like you would just go away
yeah, a socialist who's proud of being a hired killer for the u.s. government, who would happily kill gooks if he could go back in time

Go after how? Criticize? I do, all the fucking time.

If you mean attack physically, I'm not gonna do that but I'm also not gonna attack a marine, so I don't know how that's relevant. In fact, I'd be MORE likely to punch a CEO than a marine because the former is much less likely to kick the shit out of me.

No, you just funded it and benefited from it.

No, because unlike you I'm not advocating lifestylism.

Again, it's all part of a whole. My job would not have existed without you and everyone else that funds it. You seem to really want to ignore that.

But this thread isn't discussing the military. The whole point of it is to shit on soldiers themselves.

Except I didn't say that. I said I would fight those faggots even under socialism.

The war in Vietnam would have happened even if the US was a socialist paradise. Or do you think the Vietnamese socialism was totally what you would like to live under?

Yeah, people get unpleasant when you accuse them of doing shit they didn't do or of not being true socialists like you.

Good luck, any successful socialist movement is going to need soldiers and you aren't it.

On a scale of 1 to Sweden, how assravaged are you right now?

No actually, he's completely correct. Seizing the MoP would be a lot easier if there were no cops to enforce private property rights. They're just as much a problem as the military.

Politically. Demonstrations and the like. Never seen the left go after the corporations and other power structures that actually run the world.

But a Trump supporter that just wants a fucking job…everyday.

piss off. Anyone who supports communism is your comrade.
Having to make money to live?

And not having cops would be easier if you didn't pay your taxes or work, so quit your job and dodge taxes so that cops get fired. Do it or you aren't a real socialist.

Dude, there were huge demonstrations against the G7 summit this weekend.

And the Iraq War protests were the largest demonstrations in recorded human history.

Why the fuck is this bumplocked?

Are the mods fucking serious? You better fucking explain yourselves you imperialist apologist faggots.

This thread is anti-soldier, not anti-imperialist. Start that thread if that's what you actually want to discuss.

maybe, but i didn't invade anyone's country or kill anyone. sorry
no, i'm advocating self-criticism, introspection and responsiblity
i don't doubt that. the difference is i don't have the choice to not have a military, but do have a choice to not be a direct, active, willing part of it. and i further have the choice to not invade or kill under someone's orders
it's all part of a whole. soldiers are the military
now you're just twisting things. the point was u.s. aggression in indochina was a war on communism, and you said you would have been happy to join it. this says a lot about your ideology
so now we're getting into alternative history? i'm not going on a tangent with you
i never accused you of anything. i just dared to question your rationalisations, which soldiers typically cannot handle. our chat was relatively civil (as far as imageboard discourse goes) until you decided to take everything personally and go berserk. anyway you have apparent emotional issues around this subject, and i don't want to upset you any more than i have. i'm sorry if i disturbed you. good luck to you and i hope you don't end up in the next freikorps

military personnel is a minuscule demographic, and broadly reactionary, so i think a movement will manage without it

Are you who bumplocked it?

Anti-soldier threads aren't against the rules. Don't take actions against things you personally disagree with.

No, you're advocating for that only for others. You refuse to think of yourself as part of it and continue to believe that you're outside of such system instead of being the active participant that you are. You are not as innocent as you like to think.
You have the choice not to fund it.
You are a direct, active, and willing participant of the whole machine which facilitates what I did. You just refuse to admit that, my choices were to join and get an education or work for minimum wage the rest of my life. I'm sorry that I didn't choose to ruin my life for you.
And you are part of the system that funds the military. As I said, you're a whore calling someone else a whore while gargling cum.
Except I didn't say that. I said that a war on Vietnam needed to be made anyway, not that I thought that the anti-communist crusade was a good starting point. Also, it's funny that you'll defend any regime you think is slightly leftist. I bet you think the DPRK is cool too and totally shouldn't be liberated.
Yeah, that was the hypothetical, you illiterate faggot.
Yeah, the OP of this thread was totally civil and not Holla Forums bait. We soldiers should sit quietly while you talk shit and never defend ourselves. You're a stupid faggot liberal, you know that?
You won't. No revolution succeeds without professionals to at least pass on training. I don't think you're going to nag the bourgeoisie into submission either.

I'm not a vol. Ask them.

You don't have to be in the army to be a soldier or comrade. We can all defend ourselves, rather than fighting for pointless wars & dying unnecessarily, for some elite's business plan. I'm not just "against soldiers", I think they deserve so much better & should not have to fight for nonsense.

I'm pretty sure it's meant to be satire, but it's not done well enough so it's shit.
Fuck off, Nazi. We don't hate the person, we hate the cause & what's pressuring people into joining the military to die unnecessarily.

forever stuck in adolescence

from the perspective of a random person: i'd rather you have this standing army of yours before you scrap the current one
im not even against your idea, it's just that i am going to need much more than an idea if bullets or missiles start flying

what would be better in theory doesnt mean anything to me, a random person on the internet, till you put it in practice

I think a big confusion comes from the fact that some choose to criticize individual soldiers rather than the system that facilitates their existence in that state. This is lifestylism to the max because it assumes that everyone enlisting is already aware of the repercussions or that they have a free choice. If we argue that point, then we must argue that capitalism is alright too, because everyone chooses to be employed in whatever industry they work in, forgetting, of course, that capitalism means there will always be soldiers and cops because that is what material conditions dictate. Instead of asking individuals why they are what they are, we should instead ask why these individuals are employed as such and what kind of changes we can make so that they do not function in that capacity anymore. Basically, this is kind of attitude is what we like to call "ass backwards" and presumes that individual actions will somehow bring down the whole. It's a different brand of identity politics.

still disgusting. still exposes your deviant ideology for all to see
no, you should stop being useful idiots and hired killers for uncle sam
ooh you're cutting deep. you gonna threaten to beat me up or kill me next?

take a xanax and get over yourself you fucking psycho

Yeah, I don't know what posting that image was supposed to accomplish. You're our comrade. You shouldn't be forced to join out of desperation & made to fight for porky. It's a shit situation & we treat our veterans like garbage in the US, while some simultaneously/hypocritically praising them.

You deserve better.

/thread

Yes, my ideology that I don't like authoritarian governments that exploit their own people. What a crime.
Yes, everyone should already be aware of everything right at the start and never make any mistakes. If you keep shaming soldiers, I'm sure they'll quit to work at McDonald's, where they'll offend you less.
I don't have to. You don't have any potential for action. You are already dead.

kek

It's called worker solidarity.

I agree

well yeah but its just that worker solidarity isnt infinite, is it? too many snake oil merchants going around, and none of them seem to care for my well being, and i have no clue which one of them is the real deal

except the one you're "proud" to have warred for and helped to exploit the people of whatever third world country you invaded, and would join in its destroying indochina if given the choice. psycho

If you really want to defend our freedums you should fucking die in a sandy hellhole battlefield and stop collecting a check.

Yeah, I liked learning what I learned and if I hadn't, I probably wouldn't be a socialist. I helped people when I was there, and never killed anyone that wasn't up to no good.
Sure, but the world needs psychos, and unlike you I'm not a pussy liberal.

I'm loving that GI bill. Stay salty.

If someone's really working to make things better for workers, trust them. It can be hard to know who to trust, but that's a good guiding line.

This kind of thread is allowed.

I can only hope you get crippled.
I'll make sure I tell every jar head I meet to suck a dick and hope they die.

Really? The first image used to be a troll image made by libertarians for 4/pol/. How is this not divide and conquer b8?

Yes, surely that will convince these guys that socialism is the way to go. I bet if you call them sexist white supremacists it will work even better.

Oh yeah I'm so salty and your the one crying about a thread where people make fun of holier than thou mercenaries who sign up for military service and think their hot shit.

If you aren't like this then you don't even need to be bothered but I'm pretty sure your mad because nobody wants to worship you military man.

Ronald Reagan was a mistake

I won't judge another worker, long as you ain't killing other workers in whatever shithole you're in.

Alienated vets and grunts are the most easily radicalized. When you have such a diverse group of individuals who joined for different reasons, it is silly to label all of them as crazy jarheads.

You sound like Mussolini and deserve the same end. :^)

I'm not against soldiers

I'm against Imperialism

leftists demonstrating their naked contempt for soldiers and the sacrifices they made, yet again. What a shocker.

...

Leftists confirmed to be utterly and totally bereft of any of the qualities that make humanity worthwhile.

Here's a little poetry for you guys

Come tell us how you slew
Them old arabs two by two
Like your army they had guns and bombs and snipers
How you bravely faced each one, with your twenty pounder gun
And you frightened those poor natives to the marrow

Poetry is shit and Muslim Arabs are fucking terrible people. But you knew that, I'm sure.

Your brain is shit and so are generalisations.

...

Stop being faggots and accept the fact that Capitalism makes people join the army in order to live and we should promote the idea that they should never have to do that, instead of blaming individuals for the problems of the system.

We can, however, blame individuals for being jingoistic edgelords

Red Army soldiers are alright. NVA are alright. Cuban army are alright. US army is shit.

kys my nigger

How anyone could defend a jingoistic edgelord soldier who wants nothing more to have a military run police state that wants to kill all people who are to the left of Pinochet is beyond me.

I mean.. sure. As individuals. But you can't say "everyone who is a doctor is a bourgie cuck and has to be shot".
Right Pol Pot?

I mean… That's Imerialism for you!

Who said it's ok?
Stop reading what you want to read.

The fact that the mi,Italy consists of bourgeois chucklefucks is of no consequence here :^)

*military. Fucks sake.

I'm not the one who said I didn't want the other as an ally. How can I fight alongside someone that most definitely doesn't want me there? I'll fight with other socialists that don't want to shit all over me for being a soldier in the past. And I never said I'd oppose the socialist movement, but faggots playing identity politics this much don't have revolutionary potential anyway. The simple fact is that faggots like you aren't likely to be that movement because of your retarded purity tests.

Officers, yes.
The common soldier that sings up to make a living or pay for college has class con potential that needs to be build.

For the last time, we aren't attacking you. We're attacking the soldiers who believe they're actually doing good in the middle east.

Unless we diferentiate and attack WHAT MAKES THEM THINK THAT, we are not going to move forward.

It's the same reason ACAB is a shit anarkid mentality.

Comical.

You are like little baby.
We don't like soldiers being lied to & sent to slaughter. All while claiming they'll be making some worthwhile "sacrifice". Workers deserve much better than this, obviously.

If you want to say stupid things & be applauded for it, take your low effort posting to >>>Holla Forums.

People's militia is still a police.
The problem is capitalism corrupting institutions that are needed by society.

spent all day fucking with trumpvoter cars, no different than any other day. still homeless.

oh hai, totally fellow leftist

Except that's not the title ITT, and using a Holla Forums image made by libertarian faggots isn't any better.

your job is like a more expensive version of the "paying people to dig holes and fill them in" strawman except people die.
the important thing about work is what gets done not how hard it is. a pointless job is even worse than welfare.

if you want some respect join the air force or navy, that's where the cool toys are at.

He could accept it's basically welfare rather then drawing negative inferences from that. It's the whining about welfare that gets me.

taxes don't work that way read MMT.

The problem is that like the poppy in the UK, it's co-opted into valorising the armed forces and justifying the present conflicts. (You think Iraq is a crazy, ridiculous mess? BUT WHAT ABOUT 'ARE LADS ARE YOU SAYING THEY DIED FOR NOTHING?)

Fucking hell, I mean fucking hell we've got to the point where the symbol of "Lest We Forget" is now promoted by getting kids to wear T-shirts saying "Let's go for another round in 20 years!"

Vets are either woke or they're brainwashed as fuck.

youtube.com/watch?v=xe6j0JBwEO4

Am I the only one who feels like there's something wrong with this scenario? Maybe I'm just really ignorant to all this but I'm probably more uncomfortable with having to be around a veteran than a former criminal.

Defend me from who?
What other guy?

Anyway the answer is of course the air-force and navy. Rev up those Trident IIs!

Not using my computer right now but I've been playing a lot of IRA songs and secret commie songs with family. Is that acceptable?

;~;

i have to live in the real world.

thx comrade user

???
As a liberal, or shitposting rightist?

Ok, that was unfair of me if you're serious. Sorry you are homeless. You can talk about it here if you like & are serious.

Oh gee, I wonder how Theocrats took over. How could that possibly have happened? What monster destabilised half the middle east for retarded reasons and left previously semi-functioning dictatorships as failed states useful only for producing terror attacks to justify further pointless interventions?

lmao just grab some rice farmers and teach them how to sharpen a stick.

So you'd let yourself be exploited for the benefit of Richard fucking Nixon's united states?
Take it from someone who lives in a fucking monarchy, you don't even have that.

I don't blame individuals for joining, I blame individuals for being proud of it or justifying it as anything more than a route to an education in a third world country.

🍀🍀🍀IRA🍀🍀🍀 songs are always acceptable simply by merit of being good songs.

Also+2, I've been homeless as well, so I can understand. If you do want to talk, that is.

That's the reality of war.

No one can come out of it with a lukewarm stance. Either it turns you into a raving nationalist or it turns you into a revolutionary.

Why are jingoists who suck military cock so fucking insufferable. They worship soldiers like if they stopped fucking up the Middle East THEN THE TERRORISTS WIN.

Fuck the troops, you egotistical fuckwits are all on porky's payroll.

Would you kindly leave this board, as you clearly don't belong here
Would you kindly "do your duty"
Would you kindly die a pointless death, scared and alone in a desert shithole nobody gives a fuck about.

That's a good worker.

I too remember when Lenin said "lol fuck all soldiers dude theyre not welcome in my leftist movement cuz they're murderers just for being apart of an evil institution"

This. This type of attitude is entirely counterproductive and unjustifed.

Show me a soldier that isn't stuck up their own ass to avoid realising the war crimes they commit and I'll show you a unicorn.

You'd be surprised if you'd actually talk to them.

This.
I've only known a handful.
Some of them are gigantic faggots.

Ok.
Now, lurk more and then show me the unicorns.

WOW!
What a sample! I bet you can make a sociology study out of it!

Something Trotsky said about the police also applies to the military:

socialistaction.org/2017/02/07/veterans-confront-a-system-that-ignores-them

For all the "Holla Forums outreach" threads we have here and seeming interest in memeing them to our side I'm really fucking disappointed that so many of us just completely write off veterans.

Also, I saw someone compare veterans to slaves, so why honor their actions at all? Well then why give them agency over their actions?

Regardless lack of nuance in some of your opinions is disappointing. If we really want to be a part of a budding leftist movement, this type of thought will only sabotage any efforts.

I never decided to become a cog for the military industrial complex because I needed money and an education. Do what you want, but don't expect pity.

I bet that line of thought gave him peace as he butchered the sailors at Kronstadt

I can probably form a cohesive argument for why I won't support soldiers wholesale, yes, faggot

Come on. The Kronstadt workers were being completely unreasonable.

Their demands weren't unjustified, but the timing and context absolutely was. They decided the middle of a civil war, where capitalist reactionary forces were on the brink of destroying the resistance and butchering the workers, was the appropriate time to launch an uprising against Bolshevik policies.

fair enough, but I still feel like this very vehement anti-solider sentiment is extremely counterproductive

are some vets awful people who use their service as a way to excuse their sociopathic behavior? Absolutely.

But to write off the whole as the enemy seems to be kinda stupid.

No, but I can probably form a cohesive argument for why I won't support soldiers wholesale, yes, faggot

It doesn't. In the US.
It does for officers that have the army as a career. The common soldier is there only because he has to. And even in the police, it's not always that the character is so broken that you cannot rebuild class con.

Blaming the pawns for the kings crimes is not the way to build a better world.

Then again… Anarkids find it easier to ACAB than actually think for themselves and plan.

Don't.
That doesn't mean there is no revolutionary potential, just because you have set your mind on it.

The average soldier is convinced that bombing women and children and killing insurgents who are defending their friends and families from foreign invaders is completely justified and righteous. All on the behalf of arms dealers, imperialist governments, and multinational conglomerates.

Explain to me how the fuck you can turn that mindset into a revolutionary consciousness.

This whole thread is about how ex soldiers get despooked and why everyone has PTSD now.

The one soldier in this thread who claims to be a socialist still doesn't see anything wrong with being a soldier.

Honestly, the only people LESS persuadable than cops and soldiers are the bourgeoisie themselves. Sure, every now and then you get a business owner or whoever who decides that socialism is sweet. But it's so fucking uncommon that it's barely worth mentioning.

lmfao ok guy

...

As of right now, no there isn't.
Until the benefits run dry for them, there's is no reason for them to feel the sting that the rest of the proles feel. It's not in the self-interest of most of them rebel against the hand that feeds them.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Cops and soldiers do not develop prole class consciousness. They are not proles. Saying you can "convince" them, as a whole, to join socialism is like saying you can convince the capitalists as a class to join socialism. It's asinine.

I'd wish. Did you know deploying a single soldier costs upwards for $1-2 million a year?
You can feed and cloth a hundred welfare queens with that.

Also, part of the only reason Lenin could seize power was because their military was so demoralized

Except that's a massive strawman of what I thought was being done when I enslited, and I'm sure it's the same for most. Most soldiers look at it as a job. Someone paid for them to be there and that's it. Most are not combat soldiers, which means they never see an enemy and never shoot at anyone. I was one of the ones that did shoot at people. As for how you turn that mindset into revolutionary consciousness. It's simple: by realizing that you signed up because you had no choice, and that you were used to do shit that was overall an evil thing. That your "service" was only used to prop up the petrodollar, and to sell armaments. That's how. First a soldier has to realize the he's been suckered, and it's very hard to admit that you've been taken for a sucker. It's hard to admit that your buddy, whose name you carry on your wrist died for basically nothing, and that all those people you thought you were helping are going to be in the same shit world as before you got there but with a new leader. Yes, those insurgents deserved to die. No, they weren't defending shit. They were paying kids and old men to shoot at us while they stayed back, away from the fighting, in hopes that we'd shoot some kid or some old man so they could make us out to be bad guys. So we learned to make sure of our hits. I'm not going to appologize for killing assholes planting IEDs on a fucking road trod by civilians and innocents. Those people had it coming, but the fact is, that shit will continue even after the US leaves, and that shooting one after another asshole won't solve the problem. Just like me not enlisting wouldn't solve the problem. The problem is much deeper than that.
A soldier, maybe a grunt rather, doesn't fucking understand what he means. He thinks he's just getting paid to "save the world", but that's not what he's doing. He's not protecting anything, and he isn't helping anyone. He's not even helping himself, because after a decade of serving in the military his body starts to break down. Shit hurts all the time, and this is before he hits 30. He's seen people die. He's seen kids kill people with the eyes of a real killer, almost the same face he sees when he looks in the mirror. Then when he's out, they give him some money, coupled with that deployment pay, and whatever you saved up after your wife divorces you because she's been fucking guys back home while you were doing the shittiest job in your life, but you thought was worth it because "at least I'm keeping my wife and parents safe". But you weren't doing any of that. You were a sucker. The world's biggest sucker. Old ladies thank you for your service, and then it starts to sink in. You didn't do shit. You didn't serve a purpose, and you pissed away your best years doing a job you hated while your wife fucked around on you and decided she'd had enough of you. She sure thanked you for your service. But it's okay, at least you have an education. You made it out of the trailer park. You have yours, so fuck everyone else, right? Well no. Your young buddy the 2-1 squad leader? He blew his brains out. He just couldn't "adjust" to the life outside, especially since he had no marketable skills and couldn't really make it in school. He just didn't get along with people. And you start to realize that you're just like him too. All your friends are still in the military or are veterans. None of the kids you go to class talk to you, and when old faggots find out you were a soldier, that's all they can talk about, and you realize this is like talking about the time you got raped in the ass, because you realize that's what it is. That's when you realize that maybe you shouldn't be encouraging kids to do that shit. That maybe it would be better if you didn't have to trade that so you could make a few dollars more. Maybe it would be better if nobody had to go through the shit you went through, and at night you remember that and that's why you don't blow your brains out, because you don't want to be a sucker anymore. Because maybe you want to do the shit you thought you were doing when you were being suckered. Because you actually want to help this time, instead of just pretend. Because you want to save lives instead of just ending them, and because you want to see the world be better, instead of just the same.

You can shit on soldiers all you want, but you first should realize that we don't have fun doing this shit. We complain all the time because we hate it, and we still do it, because we're suckers, because we think we're helping. But for those of use that finally realize the reality of the situation. Please do not shit on use simply because we were suckers. Maybe realize that that idiot just wants to help, that maybe he just wants to do the thing he pretended to do for real this time. We're tired of being suckered. I'm not going to apologize for being a sucker, though. It's like asking me to apologize for ruining large parts of myself that only after was I able to realize what the real deal was. Some people need an asskicking before they see the reality of their situation. For some, that never comes. For me, it was the Army, and I'll never be sorry for that. I would absolutely be a Pepe-posting Trumpfaggot if it wasn't for the Army making me eat a shit sandwich. Maybe that wasn't their intended result, but that's what it is.

Sorry if this is tl;dr I've been drinking.

I really don't know lads. I've never had a sense of family or friends. The only friends I've had were military children with amazing lives. They've told me about how they and their families have made such great family bonds. They've had so many great memories.

I was planning on commiting suicide a while ago. I saw a recruiting office one day and walked in. I didn't ask for anything special. I just wanted a place or group to call home. I want a sense of belonging. I have never felt that before. I ended up meeting with a reservist who answered any questions I had……for the first time in a long time I felt as though someone acknowledged me….he cares and would ask me how I felt in all of this. I started talking to other people like me. I felt like I had people to be with. Someone to simply talk to. I don't know if they would consider me a friend but one of them talked to me over the phone when I had a sleepless night. He talked to me like I think a brother would.

I'm signed up and ready to go. Without this I don't see myself functioning.

Any tips from any soldiers?

In other words, you openly think that killing whoever you killed overseas was justified.
And this "the world needs psychos", isn't that just a weak justification for imperialism, colonialism?

Look, man. I don't know what the reserves are like or the national guard. I do know that the nasty girls do disaster relief, so that might be a positive thing in your life. Whatever you do, just realize that you're going to work for every benefit and that all your friends are likely to be as fucked up as you. You'll make good friends, but it will isolate you from other people. The reserves don't have combat MOSs as far as I know, so you may not see combat. Don't sign up to be 88m. Those guys find IEDs and it's not because they're looking for them. I would advise you to not sign up if all you are looking for are friends, and if you're telling us about your suicide, then I think you're looking for help. Don't do it. We need you. I need you. You guys are all I have hope in now. You need to stay alive for the future. I don't know if other socialists can meet with you, but I would seek us out. If I was close to you, I would hope we run into each other. Don't do it if you can avoid it. If you have no choice, then I can understand, but just realize that you will pay for everything you're given. I wish you luck, whatever you chose to do, but remember to not lose yourself. The Army is not you. You are simply working for them.

Go to Syria and fight for the YPG. Get security work after.

A legit reason to sing up, as you see no other solution to make a living and so on. I think that's how the Romans went to the army too, in the late states of the empire. I know that's how people went to the army before WW1.

Anyway, all I learned from my 10 month obligatory conscription is… … the army is boring. But at least you get to meet people. All kinds of people.

I don't think suicide is an issue anymore. I'm the happiest I've been in years. Image boards like these and their posters have been the one thing thats normally kept me going. I feel like this is the one thing I can do.

Thank you very much

I'm gonna say it again. I didn't shoot at anyone that didn't need shooting, but that's not gonna solve the problem. In fact, it probably created all sorts of peripheral problems. This is like shooting a drug dealer giving meth to schoolkids. Sure, he deserves it, but that's not going to fix anything, and it's just another murder. Neither is choosing to stay poor, because someone else is going to do the job, and at least I know that I'm not going to mistreat innocent people. Whatever. There's going to be plenty of innocent people hurt before this whole thing ends. Every day it gets worse, and it's going to have to keep getting worse. What, you think the YPG, doesn't hurt innocent people? Of course they do, and I don't even know if they're being suckered or not. Plenty of vets are working with them from Canada and the US. Tell me, you think those vets are bad too? They're just like you. They want to do the right thing, but some never find it. We do evil when we want to do good.

Shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up. He's going to die over there. That's a real war and this guy doesn't know shit. Fuck you. Why don't you go? He doesn't even need the fucking money. He's just alone. You think going to a land where he doesn't know the language to shoot at ISIS is going to fix that? No. It's just going to get him killed. Not all jobs in the Army are the same. For all you know, he's going to be a cook in the reserves. You know what the reserves are? Not combat soldiers. He doesn't have to shoot or get shot. He'll likely be doing a job any civilian would do and not get shit on for doing it, but as I said, I don't think he should if he doesn't have to.

By the way, you don't have to ship if you haven't sworn in at MEPS. Only nasty girls swear in way before they ship. You can still say no if you don't need the money. If you can go to school, do that. You'll grow out of it as long as you push yourself.

That's good to hear, buddy. We'll always be here, or at least I will as long as I can. Don't give up hope, ever.

bruh. I didn't need this.

The people who feed the enemy.

Being on porky's payroll is the definition of proletariat.

I have never ever met a soldier who understood class consciousness.

You alright there buddy?
You seem like something happened

sigh

His post seemed pretty strange imo.

Can you really blame most of them for being soldiers? To some people, its the only employment they can get, and besides, its not like they send the sons and daughters of the rich to die in war, its us, the working people of the world.

And is it any wonder people join army's? Most people are brought up on jingoistic bullshit, lied to at every opportunity about war's, they're taught to hate from the day their born to the day they die. They deserve to be mourned, same as their victims, because really they are victims, how many people would go to war if they could get a job or an education or be able to survive anyway? Instead they're sent half way around the word to kill people who never did anything to them to die for something they have no reason to die for, other than being a poor kid with few options.

But ya, theirs also people who join the military to murder brown people so fuck.

I have a friend that went into the military a centrist and came out a full blown paleocon. He also converted from atheist to "CHRISTIANS ARE OPPRESSED!!!".

Americans are the only fat fucks that brag about military service. They also like to hold this "service" over your head like you owe them something.

Untrue, a lot of conservative countries still worship the military and its members.
Iran is much, much worse with the soldier-worshipping I'd say.

their soldiers actually do something for them

Ha no, they idolize the veterans and martyrs from a war fought 30 years ago while sending their youth to waste two years of their lives when they get drafted.

It's not like they need it considering their rabidly imperialist neighbors…

fuckoff JIDF

if they don't realize their misdeeds before they come home they basically wont, ever. i dont know how many of you actually have any experience with the military but mkultra wasn't just a fun little experiment. it is one of the primary pillars of bootcamp instruction and it's used with great effect

This post is objectively correct.

The military under capitalism functions under capitalist logic. Once they no longer serve the end of profit, whatever happens to them or those around them is of no consequence, as long as there are fresh bodies to fill the vacancies.

It's incredibly fucked up and you're right to have a problem with it.

When they "convert", they become tankies/stalinists/MLs. Some nice conversion that is. Remain an authoritarian, changes the color of the shirt

No. Having my surplus-value usurped is, you dimwit.

Elaborate?

I already do both. What now, faggot?