I used to romanticise Cuba a lot. But now it doesn't seem so great...

Got to give it to them though, their healthcare system is top fucking notch. Highest life expectancy in Latin America and it spends $300 per head.

As someone whose been to Cuba the sandwiches there are total shit and don not look nearly that good.

I recall a Christopher Hitchens (yeah, yeah) column where he mentioned what he said was a very overlooked Marxist author, who pointed out a contradiction in all communist regimes. They edificate the human being to a high degree: good education which usually includes college for free, promotion of sports and all forms of culture (the Soviet citizen was arguably the most cultured in the world), good healthcare, job security and so on. In doing so, they created a citizenry with immense potential… but who had few outlets for it.

In capitalist society, 9 out of 10 people will dedicate their lives to accumulating capital. In communism, these 10 people, far more capable and healthy than the other ones, would largely twiddle their thumbs. Of course, they all put in their 8 hours a day, but there was very little to be done outside it as far as sheer human agency goes. Economic enterprise was a no-no except maybe in Yugoslavia, all artistic media was obviously censored, the appearance of NGOs and similar civil organizations was hampered by several mechanisms etc. Even something as benevolent as academia was fraught with power plays and censorship. So the regime was existentially wasteful: it created human potential, only to have to suppress it later on. The government saw itself with a very intelligent populace with power in their hands to do very little but, ironically, plot against the very system that elevated them but cut them down.

This is what Anarkiddies actually believe

For

I don't think that he believes that, but as far as I know, even Marx advocated for the use of labour vouchers.

forgot about shitposting flag

That sandwich looks freaking delicious. I just might go to Cuba to get one tbh.

Except there is a fundamental difference between regular currency and currency that is non-transferable, ie destroyed/made worthless upon being spent. In the case of labour vouchers they would directly represent created value through labour, and so they could be printed as fast as people could work. The state paying for things would be no issue, since as soon as planning calls for work to be done it can print off new vouchers, only for them to be destroyed when they are spent, preventing capital accumulation and inflation.

how easy is it to get a girlfriend in cuba compared to a major US city

Marx only knew currency within the capitalist-monarchist states of the 19th century. Obviously labor vouchers would be an improvement. However, the means of production in Cuba are already nationalized.

How do you transfer money in Cuba in an exploitive way? There is no private sector.

Second labor vouchers don't take in account the people on welfare and on retirement funds, or the people who get supported by their family or community (if labor vouchers aren't transferable). But I guess the biggest reason is that you'd need a special currency just for international trade which is of paramount importance for an island state of Cuba's size that isn't self-sustainable.

All this would require insane amounts of bureaucracy all for the sake of having a currency which is more resilient against abuse in some cases. Not worth it. Rather improve the planning.

That is very interesting but did Hitchens proposed a solution to that contradiction?

Thats what they seem to be heading, to something akin to a Dengist China with a bigger social net.

Under Fidel? No, he abolished that, now under his brother? He started a slow re-introduction of capitalism in the island, including private sectors. The one that kept pushing for a leftier Cuba and more Socialism was Fidel.

It's a fucking shame. I hope to visit Cuba before they go revisionist but I'm constantly broke.

I still have hope though, Goddamn, Raul is veteran from the Cuban Revolution. He can't betray it like that

this is the smartest thing that idiot ever said, that I've heard

So was Khrushchev, but he was the one who started a "de-stalinization" policy and did the reforms that would kill socialism in the USSR.

Fuck Laos, fuck Vietnam, but they can't do this to Cuba

Provide people who can't with vouchers just as you would use regular money. The main point is that they are non transferable, they don't have to be specifically tied to hours of labour. As far as international trade goes you could just use US dollars or Euros. Bureaucracy is fine, just not when applied to shit like planning.

I'm trying googling the damn column but it's proving to be a hard task. I'm fairly sure it was in Vanity Fair.

Cuba relies a lot on community work. Sure the state takes care of a lot but cultural things like community-run pubs would have to close if you establish a currency which can't be transferred. The whole point of money is that it is possible to transfer. What about families and housewives? How would you legally organize that when couples decide to merge their finances? What's the point of having a non-transferable currency if the economic system you install literally inhibits transaction in an exploitive manner?

What you suggested would mean ten times more bureaucracy.

The people's love for Fidel is entirely legitimate since he was based as fuck and always played an important role in leading the Revolution, be it proposing routes for Cuba's development or boosting up morale through his discourses. It's not anything like the cults of personality in, say, Stalinist USSR or current North Korea, both of which were to make up for an otherwise undemocratic system. Cuba, quite on the contrary, has a highly democratic system down to the base level, with neighbours' assemblies being commonplace there.

Fuck you

So, what is the deal with Laos? Is it just some Vietnam clone? Another Cuba? I know the Americans also fought there and lost, but thats it,

Because standard currency even in a socialist economy can still be accumulated through illegal means such as the black market. If currency is useless unless it is in the hands of the person who legally earned it, then it precludes the possibility of many forms of corruption that plague socialist economies. Furthermore regular currency can't simply be printed and have any real value, since doing so just causes inflation. Labour vouchers can simply be printed and issued as work is carried out, and taken out of circulation when spent, effectively meaning that the government will never be able to not afford internal spending.

Depends on the model you use to distribute such currency. Imo the main unit of economic and political organization and planning ought to be local, with the state issuing vouchers in accordance with the labour and industry in each particular community. Therefore if a community decides to set up something like a bar or restaurant and officially registers it, then it can be supported with labour vouchers.

Honestly hadn't thought about that, but it could be possible to make finances transferable between certain relations such as married couples. But even without such a system it wouldn't be a big deal, couples and families would just have to coordinate the spending of thei individual labour vouchers.

I think that Cuba by itself doesn't have the economic girth to support it's 11 million population, considering the place was established as a small colony. Once the eastern bloc fell much of Cuba's economic base fell apart as well, as with many other socialist/former socialist countries. No matter where it comes from they still need an economic base, and therefore need to involve markets in their economy if they mean to keep up the living standards of the country.

Also that video is liberal horseshit, doesn't even mention that their labor goes directly to their education, their bills, their medicine which is nominally "free" but I don't think the idiot in the video understands this.

Comparatively if we put a small capitalist nation into a position where it is cut off from the world market, like if Wallstreet or Seul collapsed, it would fair just as bad as Cuba. Hell, we saw how Cuba was doing under markets

cubanoes are literally the most delicious sammich ever invented, only slightly more delicious than the New Orleans Po'boy

a m8 of mine went to cuba he said it was quite easy

I see my Google searches have a "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more" caveat. It's possible the article I'm looking for was scrubbed for some reason. And Archive.org and Archive.is aren't helping.

Well Satan did you consider the greencard factor in your m8's attractiveness?

She moved back to Cuba when her parents did retard

Yes there is, and labour vouchers are meant to prevent the existence/re-emergence of market transactions (such as black/grey markets).

You really need to read a book, marx discusses this shit in the first chapter of "Critique of the Gotha Program". Paul Cockshott also discusses these issues at length in "Towards a New Socialism".

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

As long as it's still socialism, I don't mind.