DSA got a Candidate on the Atlanta City Council

I'm on my DSA's email list, and they just did a "why are you a socialist" piece on some of the members and a couple (only like 5 responses were published) mentioned being Luxemburgists, so I can confirm that.

I support DSA and I live on a pile of rosa skulls

most of them are race reductionist sjw /r/socialist types but what can you do

calm your autism you fuck

Well the anarcho-X / libsoc model works when the state has collapsed in an area (see Free Ukraine, Catalonia, Shinmin, Chiapas, Rojava) but those all fell and then the Anarchists constructed their system: not the result of the actions of the anarchists themselves. It is n idology that can work, just in a post-revolutionary setting.

Cheers comrades.

We challenge the bourgeoisie by every means available, where bourgeois elections are held, through elections.

Elections obviously aren't an end goal, but it is a good way to push forward workers demands and raise our profile while things are bad for the left in the US.

They're probably not worse but they're not much better either.
This is good

Except when they violently suppress actual worker's uprisings.

Not a real thing

Is this really true? That makes me sad.

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Good, Lenin is shite.

Kill yourself you reddit fuck.

No, user, you are the hurr durr

I'm mocking reddit you autist Now fuck off back to reddit

wow, amazing

DSA is still weak. Even if most DSAers support the Luxemburg Left Caucus, the Harrington/Bernie types are the establishment. Especially in Rural DSA. Since they're organizing against actual local Trump supporters.

Calm down you autist

I mean nobody's pretending any US leftist org is strong right now we just work with what we got and take the victories we can.

It would be better if the left died than if we let DSA rise.
There is no reason to support DSA. They would endorse Chelsea Clinton given the chance to defeat Donald Trump.

Liberals and revisionists pretending to be Socialists will not raise class consciousness.

Lmao, you've been reading way too much liberal media my dude. They didn't even endorse Clinton during this last election

can you provide a source for this, did they support clinton during the election?

No they just supported bernie then did nothing during the general. This is basically just the narrative people use to trash the DSA for people who haven't paid attention to it since the mid-00s.

so basically the goal of all tankies for the last 150 years?

Tankies did not exist 150 years ago

and even if they did, the proto-kulaks deserved it.

so round up nerd

If tankies didn't exist 150 years ago why would going further back in time help?

To 200 years? They didn't exist then either. Or do you mean round down to 100 years? The original Bolsheviks weren't really tankies, unless you're using tankie to mean "follower of Lenin".
What a waste of quints.

khalid kamau, Kshama Sawant… What's with immigrants (or descendants of them) taking these seats? Are American whites really that classcucked?

(Also fun fact, apparently his name is lowercased: ourrevolution.com/candidates/khalid-kamau/)

Idk about Kshama, but the district this guy was elected in was mostly Black. Judging by the fact that its in Atlanta and what his campaign team looked like anyway.

Speaking from personal experience it's easier to get into radical politics and be aware of class divisions when your parents have vivid memories of socialist movements in their own countries and/or haven't been inundated with burger levels of redbait propaganda for decades. Socialism isn't as dirty of a word when your uncle was a member of the socialist party of X or whatever

it's basically always been the case in america, early labor movement was full of 1st and 2nd gen germans/scandinavians/slavs

excellent

It also goes both ways. Some of the most rabidly anti-socialist people I've met have been immigrants.

Trigging niggers in atlanta isnt exactly something to jump up and down about.

That could be said about every fucking subject, it doesnt make the subject being discussed not a dirty word though.

Is he even an immigrant? Not every black person in the south has a British sounding name.

I'm just saying that immigrants are more likely to come from the group of people who have exerienced it. I'm not making a deeper point than that

Depends on the place obviously. The more historically redbaited the country, the more they hate socialism there.

Thats exactly what you were doing, you got called out on it and then backtracked your statements so that you arent in conflict with someone said more authoritatively on the subject.

This is why normies think we leftists are mindless.. We have some truly vapid cunts amongst us.

Lol no, I didn't make any deeper point than offer a really basic explanation of why some immigrants might have an easier time getting into radical politics, and then you decided it was a good opportunity to signal your "superior" leftist theory by imagining points I never made and ironically trying to make an example out of me for a larger point after accusing me of the same. You never countered my point with anything substantive or "called me out" on anything meaningful, and then sperged out when I offered a friendly concession on the mistaken belief that you must have misread my post. Seriously, this is the most pretentious windmill tilting I've seen for some time on this board.

Theres no need to.. Your statement is pointlessly stupid. "if someones uncle is familiar with socialist movements they would have an easier time embracing socialism because of their uncles experience.

That is true of fucking anything. My uncle is a cop, statistically Im more inclined to wind up as a cop than someone who doesnt have a cop in the family. You see what I am saying or are you too dense to understand?

Your entire statement, point, and participation in this thread is revolving around flawed thought, and when I called you out on it you immediately backtracked to get yourself more in bounds with what I said was wrong with your statement. So not only are you a moron but you are a moron that just spouts mindless drivel to which he holds no convictions. Why are you even here?

You're so obviously autistic I feel bad arguing with you, but I'll just point out you'll be less angry and you'll save yourself a lot of unnecessarily high blood pressure if you at least attempt to read things in earnest and with any amount of patience. I never even backtracked on anything, but you're throwing a really pitiful tantrum right now.

That makes them even better.

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Shit like this is why Trump won. Normies hear idiots like you speak and get instantly turned off from leftism.

Good

I said it once, and I will say it again. Regardless of what your thoughts on this are, the American Left is slowly rising, whether the chainsmoking fatcats in Washington want to admit it or not.

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I am sorry but I am not happy with DSA representing the left. We need a clear Marxist-Leninist line defending the working class.

The DSA is only the first and most visible step. And if you talked with some of those who are involved in DSA activism you'd know that.

You're welcome to join the CPUSA and the hillary train any time lad

can someone redpill me on SPD?

There also always a chance that some people are deprogrammed, at least if their young.

To be fair an endorsement from the CPUSA might as well be an endorsement from the FBI. Comey is such a bipolar fuck

if you ever read the election threads on /r/socialism, half of those shit-eaters voted for hillary and most of them are ML garbage.

like pottery

Reddit is trot central though. It's no coincidence that "no icepick jokes" is embedded in their rules along with "no racism, sexism, etc.)

Reddit is not an imageboard. Most subreddits do not allow racism and sexism.

Also, Tankies are authoritarian apologist. I can see why the Reddit mods wouldn't want to scare away the recently converted.

trots and ml's are both garbage of the 20th century. they're two sides of the same nostalgia fueled leftism which at once only tries to modernize them by combining them with the hottest sjw buzzwords.

The left caucus is fully aware the DSA can't be the end-game. A left-wing split or complete takeover will be necessary some time down the road. The goal right now is to build up the left as a whole and radicalize the normalfags with a tent organization. After that task we can be a bit more sectarian in our approach.

Yeah, but it tells you something that "no icepick" is just as important to them. You have to be really fucking trot to find icepick jokes as offensive to socialism as a whole as racism.

Agreed, but they are different flavors of cancerous and it's good to keep track

This task will take years, possibly over a decade if it is to be succesful.
Otherwise it will be just like 60s and 70s where every group splinters every 3-5 years.

I'd prefer a takeover to a split. They already have significant power in leadership anyway.

I think a decade is a reasonable time-scale. taking into account we have to undo the American corporate brainwashing. Last thing anyone wants is a repeat of the 60s and 70s. I think things are already looking up seeing as DSA isn't a student group like SDS and most of the rest of the new-left was.

Yeah, a gradual takeover would reduce the risk of splinter groups too.

I am already seeing autist newspaper sellers outside of large local DSA events. I really hope DSA is able to educate its new members and avoid the 20th century cults from seriously hurting the left.

Shouldn't sectarianism wait until after the general goals are achieved anyway?

We already have sectarianists. Many manchildren who have been members of ideological driven cults cannot cooperate within a big-tent framework.

trots are just MLs who can't take their criticism of failed ML garbage to the next level.

Purge em tbh.

Not that easy, qt.
DSA has grown exponentially nationwide since the Bernie campaigin. Most of these new small locals have zero members that were members of DSA 1 year ago. Some only have a handful of members.
Trots, MLs, Avakians, and every other sect are infiltrating these new locals. Who knows what their goals are? But I see obstruction and the destruction of local DSA chapters in the near future.

fuck ill take what i can get really

Fortunately the majority of cult parties ban membership in other groups.

DSA also bans members of Democratic Centralized organizations but that doesn't stop Trots from joining.

I've heard that isn't enforced at all, but I imagine it depends on the chapter. I'm guessing it's to avoid the kind of drama SDS went through with party takeovers.

...

This is totally accurate.

I think a takeover is likely and a better strategy. The DSA's association with Jacobin makes me optimistic that it will become more radical in the future. Many of the high ranking members are on solid theoretical ground (especially those of the younger generation). Its only a matter of time before the old guard loses control.

I will be completely infuriated if Trots split up another leftist group. I will never understand the tendency to box in your ideology in along the lines of these 20th century thinkers.

I like some leninist stuff but I'm not going to declare a sectarian devotion to it and declare all other leftists either potential converts or rivals.

Elected officials must be conscious and honest of the short-comings of electoral politics. Their purpose is not to bring about change, but to illustrate the drama of class struggle in the modern day theater of politics. In this sense, it doesn't matter if they're DSA reps or Bernie Sanders, all that matters is the rhetoric.

On the other hand, DSA is filled with progressive-stack bullshit, and my chapter is seemingly disinterested in actually discussing class (which would void their ability to rewrite the political narrative as one written in the language of class).

le triggered white male

I can see how stuff like progressive-stacks seem extreme but it is a symptom of a bigger problem. Most of DSA are middle class white men. Like the Left in the United States in general.
Don't get me wrong, DSA is probably the biggest leftist movement in the United States in decades but it's also the least proletariat. DSA needs to expand beyond educated middle class people.

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The progressive stack has been around before occupy, Cody.

so has cointelpro

Is there any proof that progressive-stacks build interest in class-based politics among under-represented groups?

Is this new? Granted, I haven't been in to a DSA meeting in years and the last time I had anything to do with it was actually YDS, but we didn't do that…

I'm not a white male, fyi. So don't come back with that bullshit.
Agreed. But I somehow doubt your progressive stack would elevate the voice of a white factory worker over that of PoC female college student. Ain't happening and we both know it.

I don't understand what this comment is supposed to mean. Are you saying they need the progressive stack to attract non-whites or that the prevalence of middle class people least to more idpol bullshit?

I agree with the latter, but the former is total bullshit. If you believe the former you need to fuck off back to reddit

How do we attract non-whites, working class people into organizations like DSA?

This. The progressive stack is a great way to guarantee that DSA membership stays middle class.

Also although its listed on their website afaik they don't actually use it in most chapters.

By actually doing shit to help poor people.

I've never seen progressive stack bs in DSA. Is this something a local is doing?

By actually interacting with the working class regardless of their race rather than sucking off idpolers ad nauseam.

This.

Fighting for their material interests: labour rights, health care, picketing, education funding, working with unions etc.
Performative allyship for POC/Women: march with BLM, anti-gentrification, funding for planned parenthood etc.
BPP style serve the people programs: food drives, soup kitchens,.clothing donation breakfast programs etc.

Certainly not by engaging in divisive and pointless progressive stack bullshit. I'm OK with the quotas DSA has for leadership positions though. Not my cup of tea but I understand the reasoning.

I've seen them do it at central meetings when there was group discussion.

Its on listed on their website but I've never actually seen it done. They should definitely take it off though or its going to cause trouble in the future.

dsausa.org/respectful_discussion

DSA should fix that.

t: super-revolutionary kropotkin

I agree. Idrk how to go about changing something like that and I'm a white male so I feel like I can't really bring something like this up.

I live in Atlanta and I'm ashamed to say that this is the first I'm hearing about this.

good job m8

No worries. Like most internet leftists you're too afraid of leaving your armchair and engaging in real proletariat struggle.

I don't suppose they'd listen to a brown dude? :p

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Idpol in a nutshell

It's actually a good idea though. The CIA/FBI is awash in white dudes so it helps to counteract the inevitable COINTELPRO activity.

lolwut, 1/3 of the Panthers were CIA agents by the end, all Black obviously. The poor and weak (e.g. Blacks and Women) are the easiest to turn

Brown dudes are white, if you ever go to any Leftist meeting some asshole is going to be like "We're all white guys blah blah" when there's always a disproportionate amount of Brown guys.

You missed his shitposting flag, obviously

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No, it's just DSA and the whole modern left in general that pander to minorities instead of the white working class, that's why fascism is rising.

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Welcome to real politics, you can't say "I don't give a shit about idpols" while supporting the first socdem idpol party that get a seat in a american city.

they may have idpol, but far less than you'd think. Jacobin is pretty much the mouthpiece of the DSA btw.