I know this is a pretty basic bitch opinion but I'm ok with the free exchange of ideas. I know there's a whole "le bash the fash" meme going on in the left and on this board, and this is reciprocated on the far-right and Holla Forums (OY VEY OVENS XD HELICOPTER RIDES).
I hate seeing this ideological sequestering that's occurring right now and I wonder if free speech would mitigate this (inb4 "muh Freeze peach" XDDD). I mean, who benefits from having two delirious sides of the ideologue coin exchanging blows whilst the people in between suffer or feel press ganged? (inb4 someone says "fucking le rational skeptik/liberal") Is this balkanisation phenomenon simply unavoidable? Like imagine if Holla Forums and Holla Forums had one big google hangout. Would that beget anything? Would a compromise be reached and would a greater ideology and understanding form from it?
I know this is a pretty basic bitch opinion but I'm ok with the free exchange of ideas...
Violence and useless name-calling achieves nothing
Agreed
Exactly, so what's with the sympathy for antifa with denizens of this board.
I don't support antifa, I think they're a bunch of misinformed uneducated emotional-appeal reactionaries who wouldn't understand lefty politics if it hit them in the face
Just radicalized liberal-tier 18 year old college kids
Political positions aren't just isolated questions, they depend on wholly different worldviews that conceive of humanity in a radically different way. You seem imagine a world dominated by peaceful moderates while all the "far-left" and "far-right" extremists rage on. Sorry, but that's bullshit. Being a moderate is a historically specific position and it means very different things in different social systems. Is an old-school social democrat a moderate? It used to be so at one point, but now it makes you an associate of the dirty commie boogeyman.
Antifa gets a fair amount to f criticism on this board. It's really only the ancoms that shill for them here
Amount of*
This has nothing to do with the "free exchange of ideas." When fascists go out marching they are not sharing their opinions, they are actively organizing to murder you, me, and anyone they don't like. First and foremost antifa is about collective self-defence.
You are free to go there and try to debate them or whatever but sooner or later you will find out that they are not interested in what you have to say. We already know their shitty ideology, they are unwilling to listen to us, what is there to gain? It's a waste of time. Debating is the biggest political meme ever.
You are overestimating the sympathy for smashies here. At best and at worst, they are a distraction.
They're kind of the only militant arm of the left, regardless of their views or "uneducated", "unreflected" opinion. Imagine a world without them: Yeah, nobody will throw rocks at you for using a wrong pronoun (though, is that so?), but at the same time you will have no one stepping up to white supremacists and nazis. They would just walk around, spewing their propaganda. And no, just closing your eyes doesn't make them go away. I have experience.
In some parts of eastern Germany, you wouldn't be able to simply walk around with a colourful shirt without getting beat up by neo-nazis, if it wasn't for the local Antifa.
That is not happening, especially not here. Reds and aut-rightists are constantly exchanging ideas here.
...
Specify?
That's why i think it's important to contextualise your ideas.
Every time leftypol makes a space for discussion pol comes over just to shit in the bed. Fuck em to death.
this
What happens online doesn't matter, especially not on Holla Forums.
stop
Die eating shit you fucking autist
the old 'my enemy's actions are actually a form of premeditated violence, and due to this none of the protections and respect we all have should be afforded to them'
AKA why every society fails and becomes classist.
Why can't you guys and Holla Forums make a board or discord server about discussion, with all meme-posts and shitposting ban-able on sight? I think that might be an effective way of facilitating discussion.
So make a board where all pol posts are banned
ITT
let's just pitch empathy tents :D
You actually need to bash the fash, though.
Fascism isn't an ideology. It's what primates do when their bio-survival tickets, or 'territory' gets threatened. Clinging to an 'alpha' and establishing a pecking order/hierarchy (they're the cucks and faggots. I have access to all the mates because I'm in this group, etc.) is what mammals, domesticated primates do.
If you could get rid of fascism with a reasoned debate, we would have done it already. It's sending a letter to the wrong address. It took a world war to stop Hitler once the full fascist program took hold of the reigns.
Jedes Hinterwäldler-Dorf in Sachsen
What are the intrinsic and innate wrongs with fascist ideology/methedology then, seeing as you are so obstinate and convicted that it's wrong.
Because the arguments I've seen from fascists is that an autocratic state will create an overall better society over time. I know you'll just say some shit like "ARE YOU LIKE KIDDIN ME RIGHT NOW" and "THE HOLOCAUST: CASE CLOSED". Not a fashy but I'm genuinely interested.
Left and Right are fundamentally unbreachable.
Free Speech and dialogue should obviously be promoted within mainstream circles but we strive for inherently opposite goals than true right-wingers like AnCaps and Traditionalists.
Nazis are different but bashing is often the safest choice since Fascists are usually backed and reliant on the former groups.
Fuck states, fuck "muh people", fuck dehumanizing collectivism
That's bare bones innate wrongness–no need to even get into the "quirks" of worshiping of autocrats and pursuing genocide/ethnic cleansing
Sure!
Go tell pol that it's all about socioeconomics and race is a spook that determines nothing and tell me how welcoming they are.
Well, they are idiots and they don't REALLY exist in the US… but tell more on how you have to leave Hitler talk to the people with armed forces behind him and this will not have any negative consiquences..
Mao was right.
Fucking hell. I have fucking 18 year olds telling me I not an "actual anarchist" because I am pro freedom of expression.
ANARCHISTS HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR YOUR 'EVILL FREEZE PEACH' SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE BORN, KIDDOOOOOO
It's all well and good that you say that, but Holla Forums has ( or purport to have) alot of empirical evidence that genetics are largely deterministic. Ergo, race matters and the success of a state is almost completely proportional to the genetic content and homogeneity of its demographics.
This isn't me "revealing my power level" or whatever (I fucking hate Holla Forums) but leftist tenets regarding race are full of holes and problems that you guys just don't address.
Nice false equivalence.
lol
there is not scientific consensuse on what races exist, let alone "deterministic".
Yet you speak just like them. Weird.
Well, US may not have that much of an organized neonazi party and so on… But that's not the case everywhere!
Again, tell me more on how Godlen Dawn would go down by itself, and any provocation was harmfull.
I understand that antipathy to collectivism and reciprocate it but alot of people would forego their individual rights with the prospect and hope of some kind of vision or purpose.
You could argue that this is Faustian folly, and I'd agree with you, but it is important to realise that people with this collectivist/identitarian mindset do exist and strive to understand what causes it. Mass media? Religion? Or is it perhaps something that is innate and interspersed within a population?
...
Holla Forums also argues that race denialism is pervasive in the scientific community, and that the science of genetics has been hijacked by leftist ideologues. Watch Alternative Hypothesis if you want some arguably "scientific" justifications for racism.
Just being a devil's advocate. I don't like idpol.
I didn't know that I shilled for antifa.
those were probably Holla Forumsyps
Read the post again..
That's the answer. The reason you get, 'are u kiddin me' responses is because it's physically not produced from rational thought. It's a sub-rational defense mechanism based on evolutionary stable systems. Rational thought and the higher functions of the brain, (moral-social development, neurosomatic bliss, cybernetic communication, and intuition) are not yet proven to be evolutionarily stable. Fascism is therefore the outright rejection of ideology, and a robotic, reactionary suppression (by means of repressive measures) to ensure the survival of 'what's been proven to work' ie centralized agriculture, oppression of women, patriarchy, wage labor etc.
If you wanna debate the ills of autocracy.. It creates haves and have-nots on the basis of arbitrary conditions like birth and class status. I wasn't born with [class signifier], so fuck it.
WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL??????????????!!!!!!!!!!112222@@@
So fascism is wrong because pseudo-science that you haven't even sourced?
are you purity testing me now? Gee, I like leftypol because it's not an echo chamber that makes you feel awful like 8/pol/, and I don't WANT to agree with the "le fashy goyim" regarding race but may be forced to given no other provide at least a good rebuttal or meta-analysis of the data used.
All that bullshit is immediately overcome by demanding that they define "race." Race as a concept has no working definition and absolutely no basis in biology.
bruh it feels bad owning a 12 year old but check this out
human beings are domesticated primates, primates are mammals, mammals have nervous structures which filter sense information according to the development of nervous systems over a span of evolutionary time. ask your friend carl sagan or dick dawkins if i've made an incorrect assessment.
'empirical' doesn't mean evidence based. the word empirical means coming from (inherently flawed - the imperfect senses and minds with biases) experience, therefore not a criterion of establishing knowledge.