why are American Antifa so weak compared to their European counterpart?
if Euro Antifa were there, there would've been blood everywhere.
i feel like American antifa are in fact nothing more than a bunch of liberals and SJW.
seriously, that was the most pathetic shit i'v seen in years, weak on both sides.
they still manage to fail against a bunch of meme spouting teenage and menlets.
one of you guys should step up and build a real antifa movement.
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It's just anarcho-cosplayers at Berkeley again. What did you expect?
the problem with America Antifa is there's no semblance of tactics or unity, it's just a disorganised brawl
burgers can't into anything, they are universally flabby uneducated retards, that includes the leftists
its a sign of the degenerative effects of capitalism that they all suck so hard
America has never had fascism
Germany had Hitler, Italy had Mussolini, Spain had Franco, Britain had Mosely etc. Antifa grew naturally out of opposition to these things
American antifa is essentially an imitation of it's european counterparts
of course they rae SJWs. There aren't actual leftists in the US.
Americans are LARPers at heart. Style over substance is the American motto, always has been.
Honestly Bob Avakian needs to take over antifa. Say what you want about his politics, but every time the RCP show up at protests and throw down they're disciplined. Western Antifa doesn't do that, because the model is less about actually winning and more about having so many mooks the nazis don't try anything. It's not even a black bloc, it's a black blob. They need some basic discipline, organization, and planning.
It should also be noted that the memeboys generally got trashed. It's actually organized gangs like the Fine Boys or the manlet's legion who showed up with armour and shit looking for a real fight from the beginning. They're the dangerous ones.
Finally, I'm not sure these antifa were the same good ones as usual. There are effective affinity groups with armour, gear, and discipline who often show up at these things who weren't there this time or didn't make their presence as clear.
TBQH 90% of the people there should have just been peaceful protestors.
They're not really, most European antifa groups are exactly the same as the American one. It's (part of) why a lot of people on here talk shit about Antifa as a whole.
if you want to keep it that way you better get your shit together.
fascism is a spook based on feels, logic doesn't work against feels, only fear does.
thats why Antifa exist in the first place.
No? European Antifa win like all their confrontations lol
you clearly have no idea of what you're talking bout.
Americans need to start doing this, kek
Antifa gets a wedgie yesterday
Yeah idk why so many people are crying online about it when nathan's a public figure vulnerable to retaliation. Stop whining and apply yourself jfc
Out of all the times i've seen Antifa fight i've seen far too much footage of them running with their tails between their legs.
Seriously what groupings are you idolizing here?
The German Antifa who have internal fights over groups that support Zionism and those who don't and are famed for the insane antideutsch stuff?
Swedish Antifa who've been targeting leftist politicals for not being sufficiently immigrant-friendly, managed to stab east european immigrants for wearing logos they mistook for rightwing ones and who got their shit kicked in by muslim immigrants when they attempted to march in solidarity with them?
The only ones that seem even remotely competent are the Greek ones and I suspect that's mostly down to the language barrier leading to less flattering news not reaching us.
Jesus learn to pick a lock, get in get out smoothly you fucking edgy little fucks. Not everything needs to be testosterone driven.
because america doesn't have a history of fascism
also, european antifa is pretty shit aswell except for a few places
The goal is intimidation though.
Our anti-immigrant party credit the Antifa attacks they faced over the years as a reason for their party unity in their internal party meets and tell stories about the attacks.
It's what convinced me that accelerationism and antifa are garbage.
You guys have a well-entrenched hooligan culture that expects brawls in the streets.
Yesterday was the first time I've seen of both sides spoiling for a streetfight. Berkeley (and Oakland) are mostly known for smashing shit and fucking with cops.
nah, that's because the greeks have reasons to be radical, they experience actual socio-economic struggles so they aren't focused on idpol
Because they never had to deal with any actual fash, that's why.
not that your average actual fash is anything serious, they're basically vermin.
jeez i wish antifa wasn't retarded.
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Because America is only 60% white, europeans have more of the superior genes and have less jews so we manage to beat the crap out of nazis more.
Americans just need more nazbol
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I don't like antifa but I loved every second of this. What have you done to me
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i do not agree one the race part, but the jew and nazbol part i agree with
this isnt even cute, just disturbing
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It's because I actually agreed with the french protests. Pretty much everywhere they had those reforms but only they put up a fight, and for months too.
Get with the times fam
the hitler portrait still cracks me up every time
Sure most black people are stupid, but if you judge everyone by their intelligence you end up with elitism. Where you draw the bar as being acceptable intelligence is entirely arbitrary and I guarantee there are people who would see you as inferior in that regard because you don't meet their arbitrary standard. Get off your high horse.
On topic, Antifa in the US are just useful idiots for the establishment. They show up anf make any protest the establishment doesn't like violent so the media can harp about it. They're only other claim to fame is punching Richard Spencer and even then they ran away after sucker puching him instead of actually fighting him and grinding his face into the pavement. Nothing more than a buch of larping faggots.
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every human alive is stupid
Well keep in mind very few people in Europe, outside of the eastern nations, have the spine to fight against Antifa. Most socialists in the United States are weak and can't take the heat.
Yeah I think this time they were mainly the student groups. At the Milo protest the antifa seemed to be better organized and more radical. I wonder if they felt the PR from the first one was bad and thus decided to sit this one out.
This isn't even antifa just anarchists during the loi travail demonstrations.
we should fix that
I agree comrade. We need an antifa of a new type, one under a communist vanguard leadership that is organized and disciplined.
Because their infiltrated by Soros.
Honestly man you might have a point. Is the RCP worth joining? Honest question.
Give it some time comrade, a few lost fights here and there and they will start taking it more seriously.
Euro antifa are they way they are because European law enforcement is a fucking joke.
The rcp is a vanguard- not a pass party of organization like the DSA or Socialist alternative. Being a member of the vanguard is a serious responsibility, especially in the belly of the beast. I recommend you read this pamphlet the party produced to give out to basic masses called "How we can win" -
lol
Why is redneck revolt not all over this shit honestly?
Depends, are you willing to accept Bob Avakian as our Lord and Savior?
So? If it weren't "antifa attacks" it'd be something else that these 'anti-immigrant' fucks would blame their xenophobia on.
Feels good man.
Redneck revolt doesnt do shit.
Why do americans wear Spider-Man masks?
Yeah I know, but this seems like the kind of thing they should be up on if anything at all.
that would get you multiple felonies. as well as the risk of getting shot.
That picture is in Germany I think
tfw we would be shot or beaten for doing this in burgerstan
basically,
what's their take on RAF? like breddy gud guys?
from a comrade
"Mostly because their security were the oath keepers. Hundreds of ANTIFA people were there but it's hard to engage in combat with a bunch of veterans and bikers. It was a rally on their side and a bbq/bloc party on ours but the way people were posturing it seemed as though most people knew it was going to be a street fight either way. The cops posted a list of weapons banned in the park the day before and everyone was masked from the get go partly because the alt-right was taking a lot of pictures with the intention of finding people on social media later. We were outnumbered and out muscled and the cops were the referees. The alt-right didn't have an event permit but the cops protected them anyway/let us duke it out until the lines were so blurred that they came in with 3 busses full of cops to shut it down. If the alt-right is going to import a hells angel type citizen militia to do security from another state we need our own form of security, too and it might require radicals from other areas to travel for these kinds of events. Doing it in Berkeley definitely sent a message. Afterwards I got pizza at a spot near my house and there were twenty well dressed young yoked dudes with high and tight haircuts and matching Fred perry shirts, make America great again hats all talking about how they were on a "men's retreat". I have never see anything like that in the four years I've lived in oakland. The rally was one thing, we anticipated that violence, but a casual unexpected crew at the pizza shop, how comfortable they were rolling up in the city that created the black panthers, that I think shook us in a different way entirely."
And the alt-right aren't a real threat. Trumpfags don't even like them.
you may be too stupid for this whole thing, unfortunately.
very anarcho
Who could have predicted this. Its almost as if atifas efforts have backfired.
When will Holla Forums realize that antifa are literally useful idiots used to silence opposition to the state?
Question is, why are the US Antifa, not Anarkids?
I mean… That's exacty why the Euro Antifa are stronk. Cause they are stupid anarkids that wanna smash windows and other BS. Most of the time they don't even realy know what Bakhunin wrote.
And yes, it's in germany.
Are we back in the 50s?
It's acutally hilarious how Holla Forums thinks this is some kind of "victory" even though it literally accomplished nothing. Trump is backtracking on everything and yet here you faggots are, shitposting about antifa like they are the reason your life is terrible (in before made up claims the contrary.)
Antifa are mostly LARPing liberals, but they have done a nice job demonstrating that intent and context have relevant meaning and that "all violence is wrong" is, itself, a useful idiot dogma that benefits the state.
Do you really not understand my post?
ROFL
Freudian slip?
lol
youtube.com
The only thing more ballsy that Yuropoor ANTIFA does is raid people's homes or unoccupied HQs.
The punk gangs (both left and right) in California back in the 70's and 80's were more intense, though.
ANTIFA is a joke.
Antifa is a fucking joke because modern fascist movements are a fucking joke. They are basically just triggered teenagers beating up on uneducated skinheads. They're too scared to target the real enemy (capitalists and cops) so they target movements that haven't had traction since segregation and WWII. This is coming from a card carrying anarkiddy,
Nah it just proves that antifa are weak as fug m8
Thanks for posting this. This really hits home to me. The people taking up arms against this stuff seem so weak. The right is barely cohesive yet they appear like a well organized militia compared to the mob of people roleplaying as anarchists. I hope the people getting in these brawls are just liberals Obam fans angry about his lost legacy. The American right are a bunch of smug cunts but you don't need a large force to take them down, you just need force multipliers and good engagements to put the fear of an organized left into them.
I hate these fucking pamphlets that don't actually say anything.
Naw they're all a bunch of slobby jokes, but on the other hand they're slobby jokes that actually get together, have basic planning and tactics, and in some cases are decently physically fit, unlike most of us and 95% of the antifa dudes.
can't rob the bob
National Action wants to start a worldwide racial war in killing off "non-whites" and "irrelevant shiters" while Antifa wants to physically fight against National Action and similar racist groups on the streets to stop that racial war from happening. Who's the violent and terroristic one?
So? Even if the liberal capitalist elite is using antifa and other leftists to silence fascists, it doesn't mean leftists should unite with fascists under a common anti-establishment banner because although liberalism/capitalism is bad, fascism is much worse.
Yes, policies that include mass deporting millions of people out of their homes, restricting freedom of movement and criminalizing interracial relationships.
Amen. We need actual paramilitary militias with guns, training, tactics, discipline, leadership/chain of command and intent to kill.
The enemy is Capitalism the economic class system and reactionaries that not only want to maintain current oppression but bring back even more oppression, not individual capitalists (who range from your next door flower shop owner to the international business mogul) and policemen, who are ordinary workers that are usually after murderers and rapists. Demonizing every single small proprietor and policeman is moronic and counterproductive since many of them will choose our side when given the choice. For example many policemen are resisting Trump's orders of arresting "illegal" immigrants.
Fascists on the other hand are rapidly gaining traction and are setting themselves up to be the successors of mainstream rightism, they are our number one priority to deal with. Only after defeating them while simultaneously becoming the mainstream Left can we dismantle capitalism.
Holla Forums is just shitposting and egging them on, they weren't actually at there.
It was a bunch of retarded alt-lite generic-conservatives from reddit. The worst antifa had to face were miscegenating ancap cucks. Which shows how fucking retarded antifa is to come armed to fight against a bunch of unarmed faggots and still get their asses kicked.
I'm waiting for Holla Forums to show up in moon man hats and baseball bats so we can see the fun begin
The problem isn't weakness. The fash showed up from all over the western and midwestern us armed and armored for a fight, antifa was mostly just locals with some fireworks and masks expecting that presence alone would win the day.
The problem was that antifa got sloppy based on their past street victories and Berkley being a home turf, and right-wingers learned from their past humiliations. The problem was that they should never have given them a fight in Berkley. Sabotaging people's cars, staging shenanigans at motels where people were staying, etc, would have been more effective.
Of course this is all just literal monday morning quarterbacking.
You'll just get your shit fucked by the FBI.
Even the plebbit leftist subs were rattled by the Berkely debacle. They were talking about using body armour, training both in individual and group combat, and electing leaders. Idk if everyone on their is just larping but their were people claiming they were there. Hopefully this defeat encourage people to start taking this a bit more seriously.
Euro Antifa is more pathetic.
Attacking 50:1 and getting literally murdered.
Not to mention they get beaten up by Turkish mafia on a regular basis, at least here in Germany.
They're literally fighting memelords and losing. They haven't even reached serious fights with the police. So no 1917 for these fags I'm afraid.
That fucking video…
I love being a hooligan, but silencing ideas and intimidating people makes antifa as ignorant and oppressive as their opponents. I don't support antifa anywhere or anytime. Now if someone wants to get together and start taking some real action id be more than happy to join in
The fact that they were outnumbered is part of the problem but an organized, cohesive, radical bloc should still be able to beat disorganized normie conservatives. Their were some organized right-wing groups there but if you watch the vids its mostly just random Trump supporters they're fighting with.
Antifa needs to start working out, taking boxing/bjj classes and have some kind of strategy/command structure. There are way too many people in their group who clearly have no interest in actually fighting, all those loudmouthed fat chicks for instance.
If you watch the videos there are like 20 of them actually throwing punches and the rest are just milling around doing nothing.
They lost to a larger group of conservative normies, with some organized far-right groups and bikers mixed in. Still pathetic imo but hopefully they'll learn a lesson from this.
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No. The conservatives were organized (by the standards of a "hey, y'all, let's go mill about and shout things"-street confrontation). Most of the people on both sides of this thing are just there for the Spectacle or misguided centrists who honestly think a Socratic dialogue might suddenly break out.
Berkley was chosen because it was an invasion. The only way antifa could win (we're talking about a principally anonymous, amorphous organization here) is by denying the fash the ability to be there. A few people slashing tires and making bomb threats, backed up by a widespread information network is the solution, not LARPing as Red Soldiers.
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Militias are legal in the US and it's better then just letting the far-right militias take over power without any competition.
European antifa are just liberals too.
Tell that to the Black Panthers.
The group claims this being a revenge attack for a coordinated neonazi attack on the district of "Connewitz" earlier this year (11th of January 2016) a well known left-wing & antifa stronghold in Leipzig. Repaczki got arrested by riot police, together with several hundred other neo-nazis & hooligans, after invading the streets of Connewitz during a nightly assault, destroying dozends of shops, windows and firing fireworks & flares at houses & bystanders.
Yet when anarchists are fighting the cops they are suddenly poor workers who need to be embraced and anarchists are class traitors or something
Then I guess we should just let the bad guys win, right?
Antifa are fucking retarded
seig hile
"Refuse Fascism" is run by RCP, it essentially is the antifa outfit of BA.
My only criticism is that RCP people are serial rationalists - that is, everything is filtered through the window of 'science' and not a lot of room for freigeists. However, they have a lot of elasticity in their beliefs, don't condone gulags etc.. and they actually are out at every fucking event with the NO! posters. If anyone is working hardest and most seriously about how to take out the fash in US it's RCP/RefFa IMHO.
Yeah? European Antifa have the support of the local police and the government, genius. Not exactly an even playing field. They're the attack dog of the entire fucking political establishment in Europe. Over here in the US it's just regular people sparring.
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Aren't they? Didn't Stalin quite famously purge jewish elements and criticize them even in the early stages of the revolution?
Where did this meme come from? Anywhoo, the fash got pretty unambigiously humiliated the last few times they tried to come to my city and they're coming back again in June. I'm looking forward to it.
God, leftists are such pathetic cucks. You should all be embarrassed as fuck lol.
I think Shane Bauer, some dumb journo from Mother Jones, said they won because he saw the Proud Boys steal a flag and as we all know, if you capture a flag you win.
idpol and liberalism.
Uncle Soros doesn't give them enough gibsmedats.
Also most of the population hasn't been indoctrinated into believing being anti-communism is the same thing as fascism.
Stalin purged Jewish elements after Israel was founded because he felt that they had dual-loyalties. Regardless the idea the Bolshevik party was dominated by Jews is complete bullshit.
What happened is as they were leaving they split into two groups which each got individually attacked with the smaller one being forced to run away. It wasn't some devastating rout or something but it looked pretty bad.
ITT: People think that Antifa is an actual organisation, demand things from them while never having been involved in any kind of activism.
go back to Holla Forums/ retard
Because its an actual labour struggle
Fascist movements focusing and defining themselves through activly seeking out fights is a good thing for us. As long as they dont start serious community organising we are fine.
sauce?
Fat chance, Holla Forums is full of hypercucked teens who compare to Antifa just without the balls
Because it's easy to appear tough when your opposition is outlawed.
Antifa have no balls.
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Well I don't need to explain doxxing do I?
A natural tactic of gaining the upper hand with numbers. This isn't exclusive to Antifa.
Nationalists have retreated before in the face of Antifa.
This has nothing to do with having balls
So? It's ironic that the right loves based stick man so much and then complain at Antifa for using weapons in the face of opposition with weapons.
Again this has nothing to do with having balls, and is a stupid concept anyway
All in all you've based your post on a single Antifa v Nationalist brawl and a conspiracy theory
Strafgesetzbuch section 86a
§ 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations
(1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda:
1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party;
[…]
4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former Not Socialist organization,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. […]
(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. […]
§ 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations
(1) Whoever:
1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or
2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.
(2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.
(3) The exceptions from §86 subsection (3) and (4) apply accordingly.
… no you're right, it's totally a level playing field.
Oh your $afespace word filter can't handle some of the text of the law. but I'm sure even you /leftyfur/ faggots can figure it out.
You've just given me exclusively laws regarding Not Socialism, the most extreme shade of Nationalism. Nationalism itself is not banned.
Nazism is not outlawed in the USA.
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The point is, the far right has hard gov't limits, while the far left used to but no longer does. That's a huge deal, and has a chilling effect on any shade of "right" which can be construed as "Nazi" and Antifa know this, their rallying cry being "YOU'RE A NAZI". Which in Germany means, "SHUT IT DOWN". Stop playing stupid. Or are you not playing?
Try and follow the discussion thread or shut the fuck up.
From the OP:
Try and follow along, furfags.
You've contradicted your initial point in that you now suggest that there IS nationalism rival to Antifa in Europe by implying that Antifa regularly call nationalist rallies Nazi (they do). Have you not seen the large Nationalist marches throughout Europe? Poland? Germany? France? Greece?
I never claimed that there were not nationalist movements. I concede that those movements are growing. My point was that, far-right groups have a hard (don't get sexually excited) blue line they have to be careful not to cross, whereas leftist groups act with total impunity. This has a chilling effect in general.
Catalyzing the growth of the right in Europe are Islamists driving trucks into crowds of natives every few weeks, and the reigning left having no response. You've already lost. The weakness of Antifa has started in the Westernest of the West (California) and is propagating East (as is the trend of anything culturally significant of the last 30 years). Point is, the aforementioned chilling effect is becoming weaker in the face of the left's failure to server the people. A single data point heralding what I speak of:
Boyfriend forced to watch as refugee rapes his girlfriend at knifepoint during camping trip in Germany
dailymail.co.uk
This German pussyboy who watched his girlfriend get raped is the shame of the nation, and people are waking up. Nobody gives a shit about Black bloc "autonomous collectives". That shit is from the 60's. You're old. Those tactics don't fucking work in the iPhone era.
Holla Forums IS THE NEW BLACK BLOC
THE DOXXING OF BIKE LOCK GUY IS THE PROOF
ANTIFA IS OVER
Try harder
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Hungary has corrupt fags like you in power and the EU says nothing.
If it's so reigning than why does the communist party of my country is saying for us to leave both EU an NATO for decades now? Fuck off you cunt. It's exactly people like you that must be shipped out to gulags, so you will learn how to become a decent and productive member of society.
Now you hit where it hurts.
virtually the entire european antifa disbanded after the fall of fascism. euro antifa is not 'strong', it's pathetic but with a lot more stabbings. meanwhile the actual strategic impact of antifa is the same in europe as it is in the US, it gives nationalists and nazis an excuse to claim legitimate power in the name of fighting violent riots.
Let me explain to you something, alot of the AntiFA based here in the US, their main come from very soft backgrounds and live in general hedonism, mainly built on a upper class and middle class caucasian. They haven't experienced neither war nor conflict. For them AntiFA is a way to experience while feeling good about a call. From what I seen is that they have been lucky until this point. Giving that the opposition has been generally sheepish. From the opposition I seen more diverse group of people than the antiFA. But overall looking for strife to get away from the fact that they much like many of us won't make a fucking difference in this world and looking for validation for their mundane lives.
Bringing this fellow point, the Bloc work in an age where we weren't giving our identity freely to some piggy that got lucky. I bet a huge chunk of you, have Facebook or a social media that can be trace back to you.
haha fucking finally
Those cuck's brought shame and humiliation of the real left, the lappdogs of liberal porkies and enemy of the workers.
Weak cowards and bourgeoisie college students who larp as revolutionary even tho never experienced what true poverty, but can afford laptops and ipads…
They deserve to be in gulag.
In that whole clip they only beat up one guy. The rest is just them throwing shit at the police, who don't really notice it. Sad!
Because Lenin and Stalin were so poorletarians right? :^)
That's it. I'm joining Antifa.
So let's talk about how we can help (or if we SHOULD help) antifa. With Trump fucking up all over the place and alienating his base, first with the Syria strike and now with him betraying Wikileaks (to say nothing of the stuff he cucked out on before he even got inaugurated), it'd be a good time for this.
It's pretty clear that antifa is full of SJWs, which dramatically reduces any desire we could have had to whip them into shape as a real fighting force. Then again, there needs to be an armed group capable of countering the fash, and antifa are the ones getting all the press. We could beat Holla Forums to the punch and infiltrate them ourselves, rooting out the SJWs (and Holla Forums infiltrators) and making sure they get sent to deal with fascist forces that they couldn't possibly win against, while hopefully doing some damage to the fascists as well. We could maybe even grab some of their George Soros bux and funnel it into actual leftist causes. As other posters have said, sabotage is an excellent tactic to beat back the fash, but if they want to be effective on the street, they need at least some basic martial arts training, armor and weapons. I'd prefer not to give them anything too hardcore, though. Antifa isn't meant to be some kind of elite special ops group. They're mostly just useful idiots who think blubbering about muh poc and first-world feminist cunts who are literally the least oppressed group in history is the epitome of leftist discourse, Barack Obama was anything other than George W. Bush's third and fourth terms and Hillary Clinton was their woke queen. Anyone in them who has potential to be anything other than a useful idiot should be trained on an individualized basis.
I think out of these methods, the best thing we could possibly do with antifa is use them as a magnet for Holla Forums, since they're too stupid to understand the difference between liberals and socialists, so we can use antifa to dox Holla Forumsacks who are either trying to infiltrate or fighting them openly. If there's one thing antifa has done well, it's doxing Holla Forumsacks. Holla Forums isn't as powerful as they believe they are, of course. Hillary Clinton did more to get Trump elected than they ever could have. However, they're still an effective think tank for the right, and if they were lost, the right doesn't have anyone else who can do what they do. We could even move in and take over Holla Forums ourselves once the neo-Nazi scum has been expunged from it. Granted, some of them won't have social media and it'll be hard to dox them, but considering that Holla Forums has recently been invaded by normies from /r/the_donald, we can still get a good-sized number of them.
15yo tier
That's NOT antifa, that's a labor protest.
Dumbest thing I've read here today, and that's saying a lot.
Song for this?
imo the left's answer to rapefugees (as opposed to immigrants and refugees that don't rape or murder people) should be to kill them in sight, preferably on the hands of a people's militia that patrols their communities. Sickos with that disregard for human dignity are no deserving of social existence and just jailing them would not be a proper answer given how fucking inefficient justice systems are in capitalist countries.
Why are so many people ITT talking about antifa like it's a real Leftist movement or that it actually does or could do anything useful or helpful? Why are you all talking about Berkley like it actually matters or that it's anything but another spectacle and that antifa need to change their tactics to really fight da fash? Berkley is nothing more than two dissatisfied tribes of proles blaming their problems on the other, getting into streetfights, and dragging the rest of the country into their retarded tribalistic politics. This shit ultimately began because radical liberals were angry that the face of Capitalism isn't pretty anymore and so they decided to take it out on useful idiots like Milo. You have retards here who should know better supporting antifa and you have conservative/libertarian retards elsewhere thinking antifa is the worse thing happening to the country. If Fascism is a real threat (which it's not) it shouldn't be fought by getting into streetfights and gangwars with individual Fascists (which most of the protesters aren't).
Shit like this is literally gang warfare that does nothing except perpetuate the circle of violence AMONG PROLES. Whereas shit like this is an actual confrontation against the state, even though it is useless smashie shit. Why doesn't antifa stop targeting retarded conservatives and libertarians and attack real Fascists like the police who regularly beat, cage, and murder people. Even if some retard was advocating for mass deportation or ethnic cleansing, why would you target them and not the badged thugs who actually enact the those policies? Why care about some idiot with idiotic opinions and not the system that can put those opinions into reality while already doing plenty of horrible shit on its own?
Police are proles too why fight them? So are most state employees. Matter of fact both fascists and cops are the armed thugs of capital, fuck them.
.>Why care about some idiot with idiotic opinions and not the system that can put those opinions into reality while already doing plenty of horrible shit on its own?
Where I'm from Antifa arose as a self defence unit, as nazis where systemically attacking far left organizations making it very hard to organize.
Looked into it.
Stick to shitcuck, Holla Forums. Or better yet stop villainizing random citizens because you're mad that your boys keep getting beat up for promoting harmful speech illegal in civilized countries.
inquisitr.com
It's not about fighting police, it's about destroying the system that they will inevitably protect. If the police could be avoided, that'd be best, but they can't. Unnecessary conflict and violence should always be avoided. The protesters at Berkley aren't even Fascists, most of them are conservatives and libertarians.
Actual Fascists and not just edgy conservatives never become anything more than a dangerous gang, most of the time they're just annoying, only by giving them this giant amount of attention do they actually become relevant. Regardless, the relevant Fascists are the ones part of the state.
That is no longer the case in the present. The fucktards in Berkley aren't protecting anyone from Nazi violence, they're silencing people who have opinions they don't like.
There's no such thing. Speech cannot harm, only actions, and the actions that would come from Fascist beliefs put into practice would be done by the state, which already does plenty of harmful things without a skinhead asking them to.
That's literally how liberals talk. I like free speech, it means I won't be jailed for being a commie. I don't want it eliminated because someone said something that hurt my feelings or that annoyed me; probably because I don't labor under the delusion that their words actually have any meaningful affect on the world, because I know that causes the system to act as it does is from material conditions, not because someone said something or even voted someone in who believes in what they said, Trump is a perfect example of how the system does what it wants regardless of who or how many disagree.
Well it's very present for me, Nazis still bomb our spaces and stab/try to murder us.
Okay if we're talking about Berkely, if Antifa actually had been serious and tried to win, then they would've protected people from future Nazi violence by destroying their movement in its infancy. Fascism is violence, it's goal is the violent suppression of the working class and it's method is the violent suppression of the working class.
Where do you live that political domestic terrorism and murder is commonplace? Anyway, my condolences from having to deal with gang warfare.
Oh fuck off with this preemptive strike bullshit. It's always an excuse to be the aggressor but act like your just protecting yourself. Additionally, conservatives and libertarians aren't fucking Fascists.
Statism is violence, Capitalism is violence. Does that mean we should go around attacking people who support the present system? Fascism is an idea: should we go around thoughtpolicing people? Are thoughts okay but words aren't, so we should go and attack someone for what they said because it could be interpreted to be fascistic? Where do you draw the fucking line? If you care about Fascism growing and think the proles are so fucking stupid they just get swept up by spooked rhetoric at the drop of a hat and you need to protect them by preventing them from hearing the rhetoric, why would you try silencing the Fascists when it always backfires, makes them look like the good guys, and gives more publicity to their views? And ultimately, why should anyone fucking care about a dead ideology possibly rising from the dead when the slightly less bad ideology already rules us?
How is speech not an action you trailer trash? If I go into a theater and yell "fire" that's harmful speech. If I go into a street and say "let's kill everyone in that store over there" that's harmful speech.
Free speech DOES assure you you won't be jailed for being a commie. It does not assure you that you can incite whatever action you want by vocalizing with your mouth or fingertips.
The difference between capital and fascist groups is that the fascists groups can be defeated in street combat. but I do think it's a good idea to confront capital and cops in the streets through rioting as well, but it's different because a police squad won't shut down because we exposed its members and defeated them in the streets.
Actually they're both weak and it's because you're they're a bunch of spineless, underweight, university students. For a bunch of "Proletariat Revolutionaries" the sure seem fucking Bourgeoisie. The best part is most of the people they've come into conflict with are white, working class, males. You know, the people Marx was directly appealing to with the Communist Manifesto?
Anyway, can't wait for one of those dumb fucks in Antifa to get a gun and start shooting at some "fascists". Once you pampered Proletariat fire the first shot, we'll have all the justification we need for a full on crackdown. Looking forward to sending some 5.56 your way dumb fucks, cheers!
triggered XD
Great and thoughtful post. It's like I'm really on 4chan
Ever tried to point this out to the police? I suggest you don't.
Because antifa is feels > reals.
This nigger is the only motherfucker I've seen in this thread that has even anything close to resembling a grasp on reality. Every fee weeks I come here and try to give this shithole a chance, but every time I see all these discussions like this full of insane idiots.
Do you guys REALLY think a bunch of white conservative Christian/Mormon kids and Oathkeepers are actually Nazi's? These are a bunch of randos that have been getting told they're racist and evil just for not suckimg Obamas's cock for almost a decade, and they're enjoying the pushback and their political "victory". A good chunk may be racist, but that's a far cry from owning a copy of Mein Kampf for casual reading.
Fuck, I lived in South Caorlina until aboit 5 years ago, and ended up with a roomate who DID own a copy, along with Wermacht stamped K98's, amd carried a WWII era P38 every day. Even the most redneck, "Obama is a Muslim", abortion right hating, niggers need to stay on their side of towning, ultra nationalist chucklefucks told this guy he was a fucking weirdo for that, and shunned the guy.
Nazis are unAmerican. We have so much media about America triumphing over Nazis, from Indiana Jones to Call of Duty, that it's been ingrained in the avarage plebs brain that facism is the "other". Nationalism != Facism, and people here are screaming about an enemy that has almost zero foothold in the US.
Niggered**
I mean you might as well be, you'll be much more at home with the cucked mods.
Sure, that's why this gang warfare shit is going on since the fucking 70s.
You can be a fascist without being a literal, swastika-on-forehead-tattooed Nazi. Vast majority of fascists and even Nazis won't call themselves fascists, but instead refer to themselves as "nationalist" or "alt-right". The core beliefs of fascism still remain and they therefore should be classified as such so stop buying into the "nazis don't exist" meme
You do know this shitty cliche originated from a trail that involved anti-WWI protesters?
Sounds like your trying to organize a lynch mob, but regardless, it remains harmless unless people decide to actually kill people. The action of murder is what caused the harm, no someone saying something.
It also protects me if I start shouting in the street "class war now! Kill the rich!"
That's ridiculous naivety. Every gang wants to think they'll eventually come out on top and their enemies will be killed. Fascism springs from material conditions only, and until you change those conditions Fascism will always remain. But it does not answer the question of why you should fucking care about a dead ideology that's only possible of making the horrible system a little more horrible.
I blame reddit. But at least they're here and capable of being argued with instead of staying in the insane echochamber.
Authoritarian Nationalism is just another useful idiot ideology that serves the state. It's not important how the machine responds and adapts, and focusing on Nationalism is focusing on the symptom and saying that's the real problem we need to do something about.
I'm not denying that it's a messy gang warfare, just saying that groups can be defeated and movements weakened through anti-fascism. And in many places this is a necessity for leftist organization.
Oh so it's not fascism, it's "authoritarian nationalism". That makes it okay then.
Not if anti fascism and anti-capitalism goes hand in hand which it usually does.
I honestly don't care if two factions want to street brawl.
I don't see the need for hand-wringing about it, like this user:>>1601133
It's like user believes they have some unique insight that it's probably unproductive tribal warfare. WOW, really made us think
you've never been to a demo or been involved in labour organizing or activism if you think you're somehow granted free speech in any meaningful sense by the laws of the land.
I agree that it's largely unproductive to go and butt heads with fash on the street instead of challenging capitalism, but you need to keep in mind that fascist street gangs don't even need a large minority of the populace to join them to become a danger to workers.
They don't need to be in a majority to even seize power, its common for governments to come to power with less than 40% of the vote, with the support of just a fraction of the adult population. Hitler required a coalition with the DVNP in order to form a government in March 1933 even after the KPD and the SPD had been massively suppressed and censored.
Ok,So why not just use more emotional appeals? Violence and intimidation only makes people more militant and makes you look worse to anyone who might be on the fence. Literally only people it will dissuade are the ones who were massive pussies to begin with.
Lol that is like that swedish radical autonimous left group that often get the addresses wrong and smoke bomb senior citizens and attack libertarians for being nazis.
What the fuck are on about? The only reason they are organizing in the streets at all is because the police don't do anything about the street violence coming from the left.
The reason European antifa had a far better reputation, despite being faggots in modern times, is because they used to be a legitimate left-wing tendency at a time when there was a real possibility of fascism becoming a normal facet of politics at the edge of the Overton window, which only grassroots action can deal with effectively.
American antifa is a joke because what makes it a joke is what Americans wanted out of it. All US politics are a meaningless farce.
Except no one is saying all violence is wrong you fucking retarded. People are saying that beating people for disagreeing with you is wrong. If you want to overthrow the government and fight cops it won't go well for you but IDGAF either. You can't just beat non violent citizens who like the status quo or support the regime. They still vote right wing and if they actually hold radical views they will eventually follow your example. No one is arguing about pacifisim,we unfortunately now have to argue about non violence thanks to ANTIFA and Nazis
Except only one faction wants a street brawl usually and why the hell should we not argue with people who do stupid shit? Even if it doesn't change anything it's not like it's a bigger waste of time than anything else people do in their free time
Holy shit user, I watched this webm yesterday with some hard french rap and was thinking "this could potentially be amazing with some classical music"
I lub u
America is largely already a very fascist country. I don't see the point in beating fascists there.
Didn't say that. I'm saying it's just another establishment ideology that serves the status quo, same as liberalism, conservatism, socjus etc. Actively fighting it and thinking it's the real problem is focusing on the symptom and not the problem.
Bullshit. Antifa aren't doing anything to harm Capitalism, if anything they're helping it by making people angry and scared and thinking they need to organize to protect against the evil commies.
I don't care if two groups want to street crawl either, except when one of them becomes the most prominent example of a Leftist movement, then it makes my side look like radlib assholes while making potential radicals think they're changing anything by getting into street fights.
Free speech only exists in certain aspects, obviously, but that doesn't mean it's not good as a principle.
I don't doubt the danger of street gangs, but any fight against them should be seen as a defense against gangs and should remain that way, instead of turning into gang warfare or becoming the other side of the coin by being the one disrupting and endangering your political opponents.
Stop. Please stop. RCP literally a cult. It's the reason why so many people think the left is full of wackos and psychopaths.
No. Please don't. Unless you want to be selling newspapers and worshipping Bob Avakian as your lord and savior, you should get as far away as possible from this cult of personality.
Wow, its a """Vanguard""", what a """serious responsibility""". When was the last time RCP did anything other than sell newspapers to libs and shill Bob Avakian's books?
you are a literal cultist
It's not just another ideology, the difference is that fascists form street gangs whose power is based on their own fighting ability and numbers. Libs and party conservatives don't do this.
But yes it's a problem if Antifascist organisations present fascism as the main problem and not a symptom of capitalism, many orgs should make this clearer. That does not take away the necessity for antifascist struggle.