I come from 4/pol/ /sg/

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I just hate both. Turkey especially but I hate the United States the most

Most people here are "Pro-Assad," in so much as we think that Western intervention is certain to cause more terrors to the people of the Middle-East than Assad could in his wildest dreams. We don't actually think he's a great guy (although I certainly pretend to in memes), but that doesn't mean the US should give Syria to al-Qaeda, or that the US should have any say in what happens to Syria.

Assad did nothing wrong.

We all know 🍀🍀🍀who🍀🍀🍀 Trump works for.

a hell of a lot worse than it was fifteen years ago, considering terrorists rule half the country. what's your standard for bad, Liberia?

Iraq doesnt exist anymore, lmao. On one side you have a central government and a de facto independent autonomous Kurdish state and on the other side a Islamist insurgency.

Fuckin' Micks…

The only reason Iraq is """fine""" is because the Amerikkkans went back in. Otherwise they would have been totally dominated by ISIS.

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Solid as a rock!

wow it's slightly worse than the usa, boo hoo

Yes, I agree! But the Syrian workers are hurt more in the situation where US imperialism fails than when it wins, so shouldn't you root for the failure of the US?

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fuck off, retard. is correct. not sure how you could possibly think that's an acceptable outcome. wtf am I reading, is this Operation Iraqi Freedom apologism on Holla Forums? what are you trying to say

I think you may have written that backwards.

They would've advanced further without US aid, maybe even would've taken Erbil (or maybe not, depends on how Iran reacted.)

But IS was never going to be able to take and hold significant Shi'a majority areas; they'd have to kill too many people, and the people who'd be marked for death were a majority of the population and would fight back.

Assad is preferable to foreign superpowers intervening in syria, but not to much else.

Okay genius, what happens when Assad is gone? Do you give Syria to those moderate rebels? Or do you kill them, since they're jihadists?

gay
Assad is obviously better than FSA by the virtue of being more secular, but he's still pretty shit

Your poll is dumb. I'm not pro-Assad, I do have an actual opinion on the matter and I don't think he must go.

""""""moderate"""""" rebels lmao they're literally Al Qaeda with a new name

Both Assad and America are shit.

my opinion regarding Assad is that I stand with him against America and salafist rebels but I'm also scared he'll try flatten the YPG after he's finished with the rebels

I've lost track of the point you're making here. Are you saying that the prospect of a horrifically bloody full blown sectarian war between ISIS and Iraqi Shias (which would no doubt radicalize the Shia population in Iraq and probably through the MENA) is somehow preferable to the alternative of the Assad regime? or maybe the Saddam regime? what exactly are you implying

how about giving syria back to the people? huh?

No shit, that's why I called them jihadists at the end.

That's utopian and unrealistic, the US government is not going to give Syria to "the people," unless it defines "the people" as al-Nusra.

Lets be a bit more nuanced than that.

I do not know to which degree the supposed crimes of the assad regime are true, but he seems like a general authoritarian dictator, so I dont like him. I would be hesitant to believe all the things they say about him, but he does admit to bombing his own civilian population.

Is his regime preferable to america, russia and ISIS decking it out and displacing, killing and destroying the country? Probably.

Is the us meddling going to make the problem better? No.

I would support his removal in support of an actual socialist government, such as rojova or just some kind of socialism that isn't a total disaster. A european "democracy" cannot be established due to the natural resources of the area, which means that the ground, rather than the people and their mental labour, are the main resource for capital. The best they can hope for is probably some military dictator, or become a "rouge state" like Iran and score a couple of nukes somewhere somehow.

So I would oppose him to some degree but the instability is not beneficial either. But due to their location and resources (muh oil) they can never have a stable government unless they become a rogue state, which is next to impossible.

but that's what I'm saying. Assad must stay

…or at the very least, the Baathist regime. if he wants to step down after the war, hand the reins to another member of his party, and go retire to the Caribbean, more power to him. Rojava can stay if they manage to have papa USA bargain for a Kurdistan or an autonomous zone on their behalf, I would be happy with that.

I'm more pro Assad than probably anyone else on this board

nigger why are you even on this board

The syrian communists support Assad and I trust them I guess

No they don't?

That IS wouldn't be able to take over the entirety of Iraq even without US intervention. I'm not trying to make a broader point here, just responding to the prior post. (That said, I'm glad the US intervened against IS - probably the only faction in the world these days evil enough to make me cheer NATO - and think Bush's invasion was a horrific mistake.)

Oh wait, I actually did type it wrong. I assumed you were just a pro-interventionist shill being facetious, my apologies. Long live the lion of Syria.

Get out of my beautiful first international, utopian.

so which faction, of the warring factions in Syria, would that be? the Rebel Alliance, led by Luke Skywalker?

this isn't Hollywood.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Progressive_Front_(Syria)
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No they dont you frucking Idiot they pushed the last remnants of ISIS out of Mosul.

wew i saw the flag and instinctively reached for the report button

the syrian civilians? so they could hold a democratic election?

so, is this the general feeling?
Rojava>Assad>FSA>America>spiders>mosquitos>turks

He's not wrong. In the current geopolitical environment there really isn't an option where the "people" will be represented.

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There is no "hurt" less or more. The proletariat will always serve as shield for the bourgeoisie, be it one side or the other. It is utterly disposable in the hands of both Assad, the US, a hypothetical FSA government or any of the other reactionary Islamist groups and their goals. The only pitch of light in the whole affair is the Kurds because at least they're somewhat progressive and not culturally backwards, but that's next to nothing, especially considering the fact that the US is using them as one of its many proxy tools so who knows what would become of them if they were the biggest last man standing.

Probably the people wiping out ISIS most effectively, which would be the Kurds.

Not even Assad or the US.

Turkey, Assad, the US, ISIS, the Saudis, thu can all go to hell. They have no interest in building the community again, they want fucking war money and exploitation of its resources.

Kurds are literally the only approvable answer

They're not the only communists in Syria

there's literally nothing wrong with being a "jihadist". stop believing russian propaganda.

Yeah this seems about right, America can move around a bit on the right poster to poster, but will always be between Turks and the FSA.

why would those be choices?

reported

The US is using them because they're the only ones who are proving extremely effective at wiping out ISIS.

They'll be useful until whatever the US plans to destabilize Syria begins

They would be choices because that's how this works. Again and again and again and again and again

then what is the point of this thread

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every Assad thread ever

you fucking children

Thanks for the announcement you truly helped the discourse by saying fucking nothing.

Yes, people are arguing. Oh no

To discuss Syria

you new to this geopolitics thing?

are you aware of how this process of choosing "none of the above, turn control of the country over to citizens" is accomplished?

If you don't want any of the existing factions to take control, then you must first depose and destroy those factions. That means land war, invasion, and occupation (by the USA and NATO in this hypothetical instance.) hundreds of thousands of troops, years of war and hatred and resentment that will fester for generations.

At that point the new government is set up by the occupier. Judging from past experience in Iraq I have no reason to believe that the new government would be anything but a disaster if the same process was carried out in Syria.

Yeah that doesn't tend to go well.

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nice leap

It's not a leap

what's the difference? someone tells you to be scared of one and be happy when "the nice guys" are doing the killing.

yes it is, you can liberate a country without assuming control of it

"Liberate" by the United States hahahahahaha are you serious nigga

when did i mention the usa

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As you can see, this board is infested with liberalism and their retarded little cousins, the anarkiddy scum.

Only syrian socialists, Marxist Leninists and few others, the true left, the only relevant and successful socialist movement is by the side of the syrian people and the socialist unity of syria and the NPF

Annon knows what he is talking about.
Listen to this wise Mofo.

oh excuse me, ruled half the country until recently. the picture of stability. basically pax romana

go be a salafi somewhere else

I'll agree that they're "allowed to", philosophically, but since I couldn't detest what they're fighting for more than I do, I'll continue to be very happy every time one of them is on the receiving end of an airstrike. Imported foreign wahhabi scum doesn't represent the "will of the people" in Syria, and I won't let you delude anyone else into believing that.

Who else is going to fucking "liberate" or "intervene"?

China?

what

im saying your leap doesn't make sense

It wasn't my leap I'm someone else.

I'm saying the leap exists because foreign regime change is a staple of all interventions for the last 70 Years

You have to be historically illiterate to be this naive

Yes there is, there is literal life-count. How great was Libya for workers after regime change? Oh, it was actually shitter than under Gaddaffi, since a bunch of them died! Not to mention the inevitable refugee crisis that will grow from this. Exploitation is more nuanced than a simple class relationship, the ruling class can exploit the subservient class to varying degrees.

A more correct analysis would be that activism will not change the inevitable outcome of the conflict. Imperialism only exists as a development of capitalism intent to energize capital accumulation in the hands of the few, and in that sense can only be tackled as it relates to the economy as a whole.

were the netherlands not liberated? talk about being historically illiterate, lmao

Not at all. The installation is framed as democratic with all the usual trappings like parties, candidates, and elections. But the Right parties become legitimized by the occupying force and the Wrong parties are isolated from the political process. The entire thing is a farce.

see

I support Rojava.

One will attack invaders of his home and the other wants to kill me solely for being of the incorrect faith even if I have nothing to do with the invaders or live even remotely near him.

You're a fucking idiot, the US has no interest in making Syria the Netherlands

what fucking leap? what the actual fuck are you talking about, can you name a single time in history where that hasn't happened, or give a single shred of evidence that this would not occur after Assad is deposed?

who exactly is responsible for deposing Assad in your hypothetical scenario? are you just imagining an intervention that you personally have complete control of, rather than one being carried out by an actual armed force that exists today?

more importantly, why do you continue to post so sarcastically and condescendingly while discussing a topic that you would clearly don't know the very first thing about? are you underage, or just autistic?
instead of assuming that everyone else is an idiot, you should have taken this opportunity to open your ears and ask questions in earnest, so that you could learn why people don't share your views (which are really more like random, baseless assumptions). do a better job of recognizing when you lack understanding of a given subject, ask around, and don't make an ass of yourself like a typical pseudointellectual.

that was a small proportion of the people fighting against the saa, stop deluding people into believing you have any idea of the will of the syrian people and aren't just an assad fangoy.
this notion that opposing assad means opening the door to big bad scary isis is just so convenient for assad and putin.
try not to fall for propaganda so much.

dude, you have serious brain problems

i did not mention the usa, can you read? can you read this post?

see

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You need to shut up. You're causing a mess, where is your mother

so the jihadists in chechnya tried to kill you for not having the same religion as them? or the ones fighting in kashmir? or the ones who defeated the soviets in afghanistan?

I'm surprised to see "pro-Assad" get half of the vote.

I don't like Trump or Assad at all. I think Assad's regime must go, but not due to foreign intervention (too late for that, huh?). I think Assad must be overthrown by a moderate faction of rebels (too late for that too, maybe). The coup must be led by Syrians, free from outside influence, and the new government must be as democratic as possible as capitalism allows. Right to self-determination, banana republics are bad, etc..

I also support Rojava, but I think it's too small to lead the overthrow of Assad and the rebuilding of Syria.

The US will probably install a less brutal leader, should it topple the Syrian government, but it will be a western puppet and increase Saudi Arabia's power in the region, which includes exporting its extremist strain of Islam to spread its influence.

With a pro-US/West/Saudi Arabia, anti-Russia/Iran president in Syria, they may build the Qatar-Turkey Pipeline and permanently knee-cap Russia's economy (and thereby hurt Iran, and perhaps hinder China) for as long as the global economy is founded on fossil fuels. That might also make the switch to natural resources more difficult, if our leaders have a few of their greatest enemies in a bind as is. Iran and Russia might get desperate for the power they lost (Iran would almost certainly lose its cold war with Saudi Arabia), creating more friction.

If I had to choose between Assad staying and Assad getting taken out by a foreign nation, I'd pick Assad staying, and that at least keeps the possibility of being overthrown and replaced by actual Syrians open.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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????

Fuck. I don't know what I was thinking. I mean clean/green energy.

The US government manipulated post war Europe through the Marshall Plan and direct intervention into elections (e.g., Greece and Italy).

pretty ungrateful

us government manipulates every country, i don't see your point… no revolution or election anywhere ever because it will always be rigged by the us?

No. There's just no scenario where the "people" will have a real choice.

i still don't see your point

Remove Assad, support Rojava, federalize Syria, achieve peace.

do you have any indication whatsoever that this situation will be at all comparable to the Netherlands?

i am pointing out that you can liberate countries without taking them over, which you would know had you read the reply chain

I'm perfectly aware that that's what you're saying, but now I'm asking you to tell me if you think that "possibility" is at all relevant or applicable to the current situation in Syria. do you foresee that as a possible outcome that will be pursued by any extant foreign powers, or are you simply discussing hypothetical situations that don't correspond to reality?

the operative word being "was", as in: "previously was, but no longer is". take your defense if al Qaeda elsewhere, and maybe someone will buy it.

was, and still is. and you can't disprove that, can you :^)

as a matter of fact I would say that the undisputed fact that the CIA's most carefully handpicked """moderates""" literally publicly decapitated a child in the streets, videotaped it, and uploaded it to the Internet so that they'll could broadcast the action to the world, all while wearing their US-supplied flak jackets on film, is actually pretty fucking convincing proof that there effectively is no relevant moderate opposition among the remaining rebel factions fighting the SAA, and that, yes, the rebellion has been entirely co-opted by literal terrorists.

I assume you are already familiar with the incident, but if you don't believe me, I could link the video or even post it as a webm. Would you like that?

It really was a rigorous selection process.

I can't deny that the americans fucked things up by backing extremists, but the fsa was literally ordinary (sunni) syrians, and what they did is (in sharia law terms) jihad, and they did nothing wrong in trying to topple assad.
The CIA backed fighters and ISIS played into the propaganda narrative pushed by Russia and Assad's regime (that the only opposition is all foreign sourced extremists and Assad is a good boy) but that doesn't mean it stops being propaganda and becomes truth.

the fsa was literally ordinary (sunni) syrians

so, just to be clear - you are no longer denying that, in the present day (2017), the Syrian rebels are characterized almost entirely by extremist, radical wahhabi terrorists associated with al Qaeda? because if you are in fact no longer making that denial, then that would be a direct contradiction of your claim in

yeah i say was because the fsa basically doesn't exist in any coherent form any more, at this point the war is over and at this point assad is just killing people for fun.
kys you pedantic cunt.
p.s other resistance groups that were not the fsa 3 years ago remain not the fsa today you fucking dipshit

It might seem trivial, but do you mean that literally?

For those who haven't seen this, it's really disturbing.

At the end of this war, if anyone here was in control of Syria, they would have a long, long, long list of people to kill. That's not even from the standpoint of being bloodthirsty, that is just being just.

Its extremely disturbing, I watched it without sound (don't know if there was audio on the original vid a few months back when I saw it)

If you've never seen anything like this, do not watch it will scar you mentally there's no reason for you to watch a child getting beheaded.

no you fucking kill yourself you piece of shit, you literally said the exact precise fucking opposite of that two posts ago, where exactly do you get the audacity to act like you never said anything wrong? I never said shit about the FSA in specific. I said "the rebellion has been entirely co-opted by literal terrorists" and then you DIRECTLY contradicted that claim, and now you pretend like we were only talking about the FSA, which we weren't, and that you're somehow right on a technicality?

if you were aware of the reality of the current situation, which you clearly are, then you were outright lying in this post wherein you claim that "a small proportion of the people fighting the saa *IS*" wahhabi extremist scum. so pointing out that glaring contradiction isn't fucking pedantic at all, you cocksucker. how can you fucking type with your head so far up your own ass, you lying sack of scum?

not only that but you apparently do all of this (unskilled) information manipulation and lying in defense of an utterly contemptible philosophy that you claim has a right to have war waged on its behalf. you disgust me. salafi sympathizer, liar, dirtbag.

uh… yeah, I do.

did you watch the video? the smug, young looking guy who actually performs the beheading is the one wearing the jacket in question.

why don't you tell us all who is fighting against the saa right now? but you have no idea do you?
i know it's frustrating not knowing, but there is no need to get angry at me about your own ignorance, you chose to be like this, you chose to believe what makes you feel good. carry on.
i would take 100 salafists over one cowardly rat like you.

what do you want, a list?

first of all ISIS
Jabhat Fateh al-Sham
Jaish al Islam
various al Nusra splinters
the so-called "FSA" cobbled together as a proxy for Turkey in the attempt to seize Raqqa
hundreds of various irrelevant Sunni militias who pledge allegiance to various organizations on the aforementioned list

so which of these al Nusrat breakaways and AQ and Saudi affiliated jihadist organizations is "not so bad" in your estimation? which one of them consists the "moderate opposition" in 2017?

not surprising. you probably are one.

oh and I forgot Ahrar al Sham in Idlib and probably a bunch of other notable Islamist terrorist organizations, but why don't you tell me which ones I forgot to mention, and why they are so great?

I love that you're just repeating imperialist talking points

nope, not a sensationalist enough opinion. gotta corner people into saying more supportive things about assad to spark needless conflict!

I support whoever Russia supports in their efforts to destroy the petrodollar and bring down global capitalism and thus create a revolutionary moment.

OP here. I apologize for the black and white nature of the poll options but I really just wanted the most basic survey of opinion possible. no intent to spark conflict needlessly. I suppose I should have phrased them "would rather have Assad deposed", "would rather have Assad remain"

that being said I think the arguments presented in this thread have been more interesting than the poll in the OP

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Who cares? When the American economy crashes and burns, and their currency becomes worthless, so will everyone else's, and this includes Russia.

Are you an ancap?
The milo-trip i remember was a Holla Forumsyp.

Did Holla Forums seduce you to join our side?
Anarchist flag cheering for state retribution is pretty dumb though.

but those scary sounding muslim names tho right?
and why didn't you mention the far right european death squads operating in syria too?
or is it okay when they do it?

they voted for assad you idealist

you asked me to list the people fighting against the regime in 2017 and that's precisely what I did. not my fault they're a bunch of ramshackle outlaws propped-up by foreign actors, is it?

if you claim that ALL of those groups are irrelevant in 2017 then I'd love for you to list the groups that you apparently think ARE relevant. If you ask me, if none of those groups are relevant to the opposition in 2017, then there is NO relevant opposition in 2017 and just a bunch of backasswards terrorists, which is what I've been claiming all along. The groups I named comprise an overwhelming majority of the extant forces still engaged in armed conflict with the regime forces. are you even going to contradict that assertion, or are you just going to admit that I have been saying the truth all along?

I'll admit that I don't know what the fuck you're referring to here. What the fuck are you referring to here?

don't know much about him. don't care to much to be honest. I just don't support any war other than class war.

A string ISIS taking over the arabian peninsula is unironically the best option

if the mods weren't so shit they would ban you, Islamist faggot

so much for the tolerant left…

Assad is better than the FSA and ISIS. that's it though. to say there is no alternative to Assad's brutality is bullshit. Every day the YPG proves there is a feminist, ecological, and egalitarian solution to Syria.

Things were better under Sadam tbh

yeah they do. Te communist party is in coalition with half a dozen other 'socialist' parties, a coalition tat has been about for over a decade. Now say it.

The only good option.

Assad is based though.

fixed that for you pal

do not be fooled by their broken self hating hypocritical self contradicting logic! they have no logic. do not become weakened in the ocean of demoralization! we won because we believed. we believed so hard we believed beyond believing. we became into KNOWING and had and continue to have effects upon reality that are by their very definition "IMPOSSIBLE". with GOD: NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.
wew

mods pls ban and delete so he feels validated.

They don't seek to take over the country though, thus really aren't an alternative to Assad

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osama bin laden. 9/11, you lost, bumbling, motherfucking idiot

They don't VOICE it as "we want to take over the country" but "Democratic Confederalism is the solution to the Syria crisis!" basically translates to "if we DID hypothetical take over the country shit would be so cash."

Forgot to take off shitposting flag

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Wtf is wrong with you. majority of trump supporters also support Assad and would never support regime change.

how fucking new are you. Low even for Holla Forums. Gas yourself op.

how fucking defective are you subhumans.

You must be European. That is really only true with young Trump supporters on the internet. The people who actually got him elected, the fox news grandparents of America, basically see Assad as Saddam 2. They barely even know who he is.

kill yourself

OP here, I admit I phrased that strangely. basically I meant, since most people here would be inclined to turn a critical eye on the official narrative behind the missile strike, and that being more accepting towards the regime would thus fly in the face of the apparent Trump policy at the time of my post.

although, in the last seven hours since I posted, Trump has apparently dialed back his stance and insisted that the USA will not invade Syria.

lmao

hmmm…relly maeks yu tink

what are you implying?

I support the idea of an independent or autonomous Kurdistan, but the devout Sunni populations that dominate huge swathes of the Syrian countryside aren't going to be okay with acquiescing to atheist gommunism administrated by Kurds, of all people. they look at Kurds like Slavs look at gypsies

Literally the only place on 4pol worth visiting. Keep on trucking!

The "implication" is that they've systemically removed all kurdish nationalist elements to the administration and also frankly your assertion about what the syrian countryside will be happy with hasn't really been borne out with the actually territory in the syrian countryside they've taken

c'mon Holla Forums

As far as Assad, I don't support my country deposing him. I choose to believe that the Tsar was the last to be killed and I sincerely hope the same happens to Assad.

sfsdfsdfsdfd

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Voted no opinion since this poll lacks nuisance.

To the contrary, it was plenty annoying.