I see a lot of antinatalists here

I see a lot of antinatalists here.

Are you an antinatalist? Why? Is there a reason you haven't committed suicide?

I'm half an antinatalist
I'm not totally against having children and there are times where sometimes I wish I never existed in the first place, but other times I can feel like consciousness is pretty dope.

I'm definitely in favor of people having less children though. Even taking into account the fact that capitalism is keeping a significant portion of the population in poverty needlessly we are overpopulated.

Birthrates in many countries are far below the replacement rate. The only continent with a high, stable birth rate is Africa.

You're retarded OP.

Never being born and killing yourself after you were born are completely different problems and you definitively need to off yourself if you don't see why.

If you dislike consciousness, why convince other people their consciousness is bad when you could just destroy your own?


Assume consciousness is a quantity where there can be more or less. More human organisms, more consciousness.

If your goal is to eliminate consciousness, why have you not removed yourself?

Do you think birth is unjust? To what is the injustice done? Nothing is due to nothing. Moral questions arise after the circumstances of sense experience, not before. What is universal to human life that makes it regrettable?

I'm opposed to creating new life because people shouldn't be brought into existence against their will. That doesn't mean people should be killed or should kill themselves. We should try to make the most out of life since we're already here, we just shouldn't reproduce especially when there's kids without parents around.

Voluntary human extinction within an unlimited time frame is the goal.

Why would I kill myself if by staying alive I can work towards eliminating a significantly greater amount of consciousness than just by killing myself right now?

They have no will prior to existence. No will is overturned.

It is inconceivable for nothing to have a will or the constitution by which to follow its will towards some preferred existence. If you decide you don't want your life, which you can only do with an existing will, you are capable of ending it.

They have no say in it, they can't consent or refuse. That's why it's an injustice. Such a serious matter (dare I say the most serious) shouldn't be decided by anyone else. This is why the only reasonable course of action is never to reproduce.

But you can't consent to not-existing either, the whole question of consent makes no sense when you're talking about beings that only exist in a counterfactual sense.

And anyways, I would argue that suicide solves this problem quite nicely. If you don't want to exist you should just kill yourself and cease to exist as a conscious being.

When reproducing you are creating a person who may not want to live in the future. If you just don't reproduce there's no chance of that happening and everything is fine.

Imagine being a parent whose kid just killed themselves, I'm sure "oh I guess they just didn't want to be born, good for them" won't cross your mind.

When reproducing you are creating a person who may want to live and who will thoroughly enjoy their life. If you don't reproduce that won't happen. Life is meaningless and fleeting anyways, and when you die you and all of your memories cease to be.


Who the fuck are you to tell someone who wants to die that they can't just because it would hurt your feels?

Who the fuck are you to tell someone who didn't want to be born that they had to just because there was a chance they might thoroughly enjoy it?

Who the fuck are you to tell someone who likes being alive that they should have never been born just because there's a chance they might have been a suicide?

You can't not want to be born if you don't exist yet. That doesn't make any sense.

And once they do exist they can make the choice to stop existing if they want to.

They couldn't miss being alive if they were never born.

How about regretting being born? Does that sound better?

Well they can't want to be born can they? Therefore they don't want to be born. Someone shouldn't be created since they don't want it. We tend to think that forcing things onto people is wrong whether they resist or not.

If they were never born they can't enjoy being alive. This doesn't go anywhere or resolve itself meaningfully.

You don't have an ethical framework, you could not justify an ethical framework, if you seriously dislike existence there's an established solution for you. Nobody, absolutely nobody finds arguments like this genuinely convincing, nobody commits suicide over it, at most it's an excuse not to have kids when you don't want to have kids.

Sure, but if you regret being born there's a quick and easy way to stop existing (suicide).

You're conflating absence with negativity. Non-existent being don't want anything. They don't want to be born just as much as they don't not want to be born, which is to say not at all.

You are delusional, try committing suicide once then come back and tell me how easy and quick it was.

Maybe you don't want to die enough.

Certainly, you recognize that you're physically able to kill yourself, right? What's the problem?

But I don't want to stop existing tho? What aren't you getting about this? If anything you seem to be making the case here for easy, painless methods of suicide being readily available to everyone

No, I'm not such a retarded depressed faggot that I would be against birth because I hate the current state of things. I can't comprehend the amount of stupidity needed to reach that conclusion. Maybe these cunts should read some history to see that the problem is not life as such.

Anti-natalism is a concept that is is unique to the developed world, particularly White countries. If you're white, I implore you to consider the next generation. Even if you have to breed with a non-white woman, it's better than not having any kids at all.

Think of the possible benefits as well

The point isn't that we shouldn't have kids because of the current state of things, but rather that having kids in general does more harm than good, pic related. Every child you don't have is a lifetime of suffering prevented, and you don't have to be depressed to agree.


But the point is that we don't want there to be a next generation.

He has a point. Only in the developed world, where suffering is minimal, do people bitch that "life is just suffering so it is unethical to have children" all while such thought is much more rare in the developing world, where le suffering meme is encountered much more frequently, and people there have even more children than in the developed world.

If this was true everyone would be so bored that humanity would have gone extinct from suicide due to the total boredom.

samefag, just wanted to correct myself, I didn't mean "more harm than good" but "more harm than not having kids"

But there will be, and you who are intelligent enough to make this philosophical deduction won't have a kid to be part of it

when will you finally get out of your gothistic phase, don't you think it's time already?

...

Life is suffering though. We suffer every day, and I don't think it's edgy to point this out. Even where standards of living are highest, it's impossible to really escape from it. Sure, there will always be someone worse off than you, but that's irrelevant to the argument.


Not having a child isn't depriving the world of a happy person, since there isn't yet a happy person to be deprived of, only the potential for both pleasure and suffering. I think it's better to prevent that suffering than it is to cross your fingers and hope that the happiness makes it worthwhile.

Yes, absolutely. So throw away Schoppie and pick up Nietzsche, it will do you more good.

Yes it is. You may be deprived of a potential good, and if the universe accords to some pleasure calculus where more beings who value their existence = good then it also can be deprived of more "good".

You have no rational reason for doing so. Outside of high school philosophy shitheads and isolated, overworked, or depressed people most people get upset by suicide and consider life a gift. You can improve conditions and make somebody happy, or a lot of people happy, instead of posting this excuse of an idea on the internet.

People are getting dumber all over the world. Specifically, smart women pursue careers or wait for an increasingly unlikely favorable marriage, while dumber, more irresponsible women drop out of high school and start popping out a ton of kids they'll neglect. Flynn effect is leveling off and autism quotient is going down. You are just removing intelligent, altruistic people from the gene pool. You're not ending suffering, you're ending people capable of addressing it.

Buddhism is not scientifically true. You are constantly striving, but it is wrong to see that as a bad- Aristotelians consider that human flourishing, and, when striving is aligned towards the appropriate good, the basis by which life becomes meaningful. If nothing else, read Kierkegaard.

Even just looking at the table of contents of the Wikipedia page on anti-natalism will tell you that's not true.

Anti-natalism is as old as civilization, it's not a recent development.

Not like the only countries everyone wants to get into are the countries with a majority white population. Everything else is known by everyone as being shit or going to become shit soon.

Existence is suffering.
I don't want to add to the suffering of those who love me.

I believe that having kids on an individual level is just a ridiculous idea until we're living under communal parenting. Even then it still wreaks havoc on the women's body, so you might wanna wait a bit longer until medicine is more developed to possibly undo some of the as it stands now permanent changes to the female body.

Taking antinatalism up on a society wide level is kind of superfluous though. Just advocate for higher education and better career opportunities, or just Socialism, and the birth rate will plummet naturally.

It isn't enough just to not have children. We have to kill the children that currently exist as well.

Antinatalists are prime gulag material. It's one of those positions that add absolutely nothing to a movement and actively removes decent people who would otherwise be in favor of it.
Just like the people who think children should be removed from families and raised by communes.
Literally "I have mommy/daddy/self-esteem issues and need the Left to channel them" politics.

Once you're born, you have a terrible fear of death, are strongly discouraged from suicide and even told it's selfish. A human has various irrational desires and drives and arguably one is the fear of death even when one's life is far more suffering than happiness. By the time someone commits suicide, they will have experienced years of unnecessary suffering.

I'm not sure I'm a pure anti-natalist, but in our current society, I really believe most people's lives are more suffering than happiness, unfortunately. It's not right to condemn a person to suffering, which is what birth does, unless maybe they have a very good chance of having more happiness than suffering. Especially when we live in a time where climate change could turn countries into wastelands with gangs of cannibals ruling the streets, conceivably within a lifetime, I don't think it's right to bring a child into the world.

If you think the argument is nonsense then honestly ask the question, do parents really think that much about whether their child will have a good life before they have them? More like they do it for their own desire to have a child, don't think about the morality of it because it's accepted by society, and then expect the child to live a life of alienated work and refuse to support them if they don't want to.