Newfriend who is mostly right wing libertarian here: So most of you basically want something like a worker's corporation, a corporation where all the shares are owned by and only by the people working there, and everyone is on board of directors and everyone is also a ceo. Ok. But I have just one question:
Say a worker there develops, say, an engine. It is better than all previous 4 stroke internal combustion engines. It just is, indulge, the engine is much better than all previous one. Who get's the reward? Do the workers share all the production now? Does engine inventor gets.. 10% higher pay than everyone else? 20% higher? Is he the only individual who can use the engine? Do they all trade with him for the rights to use the engine?
One thing I never understood about anti-private property people are things like these. This work, inventing new stuff, is the riskiest thing there is, and the most rewarding thing there is. Leftists all jump on the successful businesses, but they ignore the 80% of unsuccessful ones. They dont understand that investing in things isnt 100% success. Being a porky isnt easy or 100% successful.
How does personal risk and reward works in socialisms? Or do you people want to permanently stay in like 20th century factories and that's literally it, no one gets richer, no one gets poorer, everyone is just equally dirty and poor?
Engineering corps steal all of their employees' innovations as is.
Camden Harris
uh… I hate saying this but the nazi is right inventors don't get rewarded in capitalism, meritocracy is a meme
Samuel Flores
I never understood this absolute root and branch destruction of all personal incentive and risk and undertaking and enterprising etc.
I guess they want all the world to…. spin the fucking wheel 12 hours a day and have the equal paycheck and be equally miserable and poor and there's never enough toilet paper so black market toilet paper mafia is the shadow ruler of the world.
Andrew Davis
If you're not gonna argue in good faith then don't argue at all.
Also, innovations and new technology should serve all instead of just corporations. Intellectual property is theft.
Zachary Parker
socialism isn't just coops (and coops aren't just the workers owning the shares, etc.).
You're still presupposing production for exchange, but ignoring that, I'd say it depends on the situation. Was the new machine developed, tested and commissioned by the workplace, or did this person just invent it by himself, with no outside help? If we get more concrete, I think the answer gets more and more obvious.
And nobody is saying that every investment is successful, and that every capitalist profits, or that it's easy. Where did you get that from? PragerU strawmen?
Connor Barnes
Everyone gets rewarded who reaps the benefits of the efficiency increase.
Jaxon King
Isn't the point to change that? Saying it already happens is not a refutation of the problem, it's a confirmation of it.
Evan Foster
That is most like syndicallism, which is what the AnComs preach, only there would be no shares, just the value of your labor. There would be no CEOs either, since the workplace would be entirely democratic.
Everyone who uses it.
It depends on what his fellows want to do. They might give him some kind of one-time bonus (a vacation or somesuch), or they might give him some manner of pride of place (say a position in the R&D department).
No. Intellectual property is private prooerty.
What, you mean now? In capitalism? Hell-fucking-no it isn't! Inventors frequently die penniless. The financeers who bring it to market make all the money.
The fuck we don't.
Kek. Another petit-bourgeois thinks he's Porky. You sucker. You and your workers are the ones taking all the financial risk while your investors make all the wealth produced by your workers without taking on any of the risk themselves. Whether you succeed and pay off your loans or you fail and they seize your assets they still win.
What personal risk do you imagine that you would take in AnCom socialism? If you want to open a new business, present a case for its need, and get a permit to use a piece of real estate for that purpose. Then work there along with everyone else.
Jayden Wright
Just as I feared. Spinning the wheel 12 hours a day in a factory for miserable pay is hard. But technical innovation is much harder in a completely different part of the brain. Inventing things is hard work. Extremely hard. You must know so many different things, you need to know physics, kinematics, dynamics, fluid dynamics (cos everything uses air), thermodynamics, chemistry, pressure-volume diagrams, combustion, man it is hellishly hard work. AND NO ONE ON THIS FUCKING PLANET IS GOING TO DO THIS KIND OF THING FOR F R E E R E E
How do you people plan on protecting the rights, the hard labor, the effort of these technical intellectuals?
