Is veganism idpol?

make vegetables salty/sweet/fatty.

obviously.

It's idpol crossed with lifestyleism

I am a vegan

Meat is far more nutritious from an energy-density and micronutrient standpoint than veggies are. Modern factory farm meat pumped might be pumped full of hormones and treated with chemicals, but the veggies you get at the store are coated in fungicides and insecticides that are no safer. The healthiest foods are home-raised fish and organ meats - liver, hearts, etc - from wild game or grass-fed animals.

I can cite several papers written by environmentalists, nutritionists and agronomists that the ideal diet for the environment, health, and agriculture land use is not no meat, but a small amount of meat (less than 100g per day).

Then why are people "eating clean", going vegetarian, or going vegan?

Animal feed can be created from crop residues and grassland. Why have nomads raised herds for 1000s of years if vegetables are so much easier?

In today's environment? Just be a vegan/vegetarian quietly.
If an obnoxious meat eater notices and asks, push the economic angle and don't virtue signal.

It's just interpellated pseudo-activity.

Way to prove my point. Oh well.
Frito-Lay has done and will do more for the "vegan cause" than any of you louts ever will.

Daily reminder that real veganism has never been tried.

the idea of your diet having some kind of influence on industrial food production is a fucking joke so yeah, it's basically about identity and/or making yourself feel good about your own actions

meat production needs to be outlawed, not just made into an unfashionable thing to be associated with as a consumer

the quiet, non-judgemental vegan that the general public claims to be "ok with" needs to realize how apolitical and pointless their lifestyle choices are and move on to polemics and sabotage if they really want to change things

It has a direct influence on your health though.

Veganism isn't identity politics cause it isn't politics in the first place.

sure thing
your own physical exercise isn't political either but it's still good for you

Veganism is for liberal hippies and an utopian circlejerk for Idpolers.

No, it's anti-idpol because non-veganism/humanism is about the human identity vs the non-human/animal identity.

Who cares.
Who cares.
Who cares.

True veganism is about respecting animals as free individuals. Although I don't have any problem with people eating the meat of violent animals that attack others, including of violent humans.

Agreed.

Yes.

youtu.be/Z-IFH_oo4HY

All aboard the underground meat-dealing mafia train!

That video as nothing to do with the essence of veganism at all.

Is he still a vegan when he swallows his boyfriend's semen?

Vegans oppose holistic farming because it keeps animal agriculture around and keeps people eating meat. It's pure ideology.

it's lifestylism but still worth while

Who cares.

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THE TECHNOLOGY IS THERE COMRADES!!
Probably not gonna happen under capitalism tho.

npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/02/11/514544431/saving-the-planet-one-burger-at-a-time-this-juicy-patty-is-meat-free

Idpol doesnt just mean "everything leftypol doesnt like", you know.

Just saying. IF you could grow artificial meat as cheap and that tastes as good as real animal meat, I would be completely fine with outlawing animal farming

Veganism is not idpol, political veganism is idpol.

Similarly, being black is not idpol, black nationalism is idpol.

Compassionate people care.

What are you going to do with all the animals currently in farms? Or did vegans not think that far?

Release them obviously.

Yes, and ruin the environment around those animals as they overgraze or explode predator populations. Again, you idiots haven't thought it through.

Sorry, I replied quickly without thinking much. My new answer is: I would put them on reservations segregating the males and females so they can't reproduce and let them extinguish.

So what you're saying is that we still have to expend resources and yet the final purpose is elimination. Why not just shoot all of them? Why keep taking up resources, which is your main complaint about animal agriculture, especially in the face of holistic agriculture, which is proven to work.

while i do love a good medium rare steak, it makes a lot of sense to become vegan/vegetarian. while the food distribution problems are capitalism's fault, giving half the land used for grazing/producing feed for animals back to nature would help the planet a lot.

Why not just do the same to humans, human suffering is unavoidable so by your own logic we might as well just eradicate ourselves as a species to avoid the potential for suffering right?

That's only if your goal is to eliminate suffering for the sake of it. Also, that other faggot seems to want to eliminate farm animals. I don't think anyone else has this as a goal.

Don't care.

If liberation and relocation were impossible, then yes.

Wut? My only complaint about animal "agriculture" is that it's wrong to enslave, breed and eat them against their will. Also holistic agriculture is possible without eating the animals.

That's my core fundamental belief, I want all life to extinguish because existence is meaningless and more importantly is inherently oppressive since we were created without our consent (not to mention that we are vulnerable to being furthermore oppressed by others and just suffering in general like you said).

Well farm animals are reliant on us to the point where they wouldn't survive without us, so if you want to eliminate their suffering but still pay all the prices associated with keeping farm animals you're really just eliminating suffering for the sake of it and nothing else.

Gee, now we can safely say that political veganism/animal rights are spooky as fuck and deserve to be shunned. Kill yourself, veg faggot.

I don't. I want to eat them.

Yes it's "spooks" like everything else, there is no rational and objective reason to care about others or doing anything at all, you either feel compassion and choose to act on it or you don't.

If life is such a burden please rid yourself of it immediately, gotta' practice what your preach.

I do everything for myself and yet manage to benefit others. Seems like you're just a fucking faggot that doesn't deserve to be here. This here's a materialist board, famalam. Your kind ain't welcome round these parts.

no its a lifestyle choice

No.

It's fun to laugh at retarded 'militant vegans' on Tumblr though.

Since the moment I was born my death was inevitable, why the rush? When I can die while killing off nazis?

Do the animals you eat benefit from you eating them?

Yes, this world sucks, I'm too good for this world, I deserve better, which is why I want to create a better one.

So? Materialism doesn't say anything about which motivations or goals a person must have.

Yeah, they get to exist, but I also don't care about them.

Yeah, I want to do that for me.

No, but it does say they must be grounded in reality. Just kill yourself already.

Wrong, only industrial meat is bad for health, and only an industrial method of meat production is bad for the environment.

While People in modern society should reduce the quantity of meat they eat. it is not as good for the environment or as sustainable as one would think.

hqz.com/749443/being-vegan-isnt-as-environmentally-friendly-as-you-think/

elementascience.org/articles/10.12952/journal.elementa.000116/

Veganism while it does feed more people than the current horrible diet, there are other diets that are more sustainable and lead to higher food production.

Maybe. I'm not sure someone can say veganism is apart of their identity, in the same way I don't say meat eating in apart of mine. Maybe some vegans make the fact they don't eat certain things part of their identity. If they do, they've got to be very boring people.

Existence is meaningless and I don't care about people that don't care about others, in fact I hate them.

I know that.

Life is meaningless and there is no reason whatsoever to perpetuate it, you can't get more real than this, you're the deluded one if you believe life as any value.

Again, why the rush? You're pathetic for thinking that dying "prematurely" is a tragedy, cowards like you would rather be enslaved than dying. I say: Give me liberty, or give me death!

DIETS ARE NOT POLITICS

Check your muh privilege, speciest scum.

No. Veganism is a movement against the exploitation of animals, and rejects the distinction between humans and animals. A considerable number of vegans are also radical leftists for this reason.

Adhering to the dietary conduct is useful for a variety of reasons, for example, you won't appear a hypocrite if you criticize animal exploitation, you get health benefits, and effect a modest reduction in suffering by effects on supply and demand.

Animals typically don't breed other animals en masse solely for the pleasure of eating them.

I am unopposed to outlawing meat production, but pushing that will make everyone hate vegans even more than they already do, and it would never pass besides. You'd need to get more support before considering it.

I hope this board realizes the flaw in this logic.

Why do you want everyone dead though?

I don't. You can't die if you never existed in the first place, you can only die if you are born.

Finally you reds admit your master plan.

I wish, if only most leftists thought like me you rightists would all already be long dead. Alas most of them are just as much of a hedonistic cowards like you nazis.

dairy produces shitloads (pun intended) of methane though

It's a dietary choice, so no. Once you start arguing for all kinds of inclusion, demanding accommodation wherever you go, special pribelidges or carve-outs in law, then it's a different beast of course.

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This is only one aspect of sustainability though. It's only measuring how many people you can feed on said diet. It's missing the environmental impacts of producing meat, diary, fish, and eggs. Not to mention the public health concerns of consuming animal products

No

I consider it a worthy cause, primarily because meat production on the current level is unsustainable and disgusting as fuck and bound to be non-egalitarian. There'd be no way to let everyone in the world eat as much meat (sustainably) as we, the wealthy countries, nowadays do. Thus: meat consumption has to be smaller. But I do merely mean smaller: I don't even consider totally meatless society a goal, it is so far away, and I can leave some ethics outside the political sphere.

One must be very careful though: the vegetarian cause must always be politicized and always combined with other causes. Environmentalism in general is a dangerous thing to play with: it can very well become a new opium for the masses, a distraction from real change being needed.

If you're looking a production side efficiency, you'd go low meat, low diary diet; only use animals raised on marginal lands, or hay-fed from fallow fields.

kind of, and it misses the entire fucking point of being a leftist

blaming the consumer, not the system
believing in the nonsense notion that the system can be changed from within
playing morality cards
etc etc

Fucking hilarious answer when vegans are supposed to treat the animal kingdom as equals, or as you already put it, free individuals

Already addressed in this thread. You can use animal agriculture to make more arable land. Vegans refuse this because of their ideology, ignoring that it definitely works.

There are ethical choices for the individual to make as well, though: we can't avoid personal responsibility through politics. And the message of "stop killing animals" or "make our lifestyle more sustainable" is kinda stronger if one avoids direct enjoyment/value from those killed animals.

When I tell people that we should not give the control of our information and means of communication to private businesses, I try to live as I preach by avoiding non-free software. When I tell people that we should aim for a more sustainable lifestyle, I do my best to apply some of the changes to my own life - to show that it isn't insufferable. And so on. If one can realistically participate less in a harmful activity, one should definitely do so.

Well I dunno, I know plenty of vegs who believe that the change must be political. But yeah there are lots of ones who are libbie bougie as fuck.

Non vegan here, just experimented as a vegan because I like cooking and I wanted to try something new and learn new recipes.

Normal people get pretty triggered whenever somebody refuses to eat meat. I get the angle of disregarding food, but people at work weren't giving me food, they were just looking at me eating my own food; my friends and relatives weren't working extra for me, as I was the one that cooked 2 kind of dishes, and still, people tried to tell me I was wrong for being a veggie hippy until I explained my rationale.

After that experiment, I'm actually convinced that the myth about the smug vegetarian is more about people feeling inadecuate rather than vegans being annoying.

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Yeah, it is plenty about that. I've never made fun of meat-eating (except with friends as a joke) but people often feel the need to call my veggie dishes odd, disgusting or even elitist (I put nuts and pear in my own pizza and people really got mad at me for that)

No, it's definitely a thing, though. My sister is a vegan and she got all pissy one time when my mom made chow and didn't make a different dish for her. My mom invited her to cook herself something and she complained that she wasn't being treated equal. My mom just said, "You'll get the same treatment when you eat the same meals." Or something like that, happened years ago. Anyway, it cuts both ways, but I've always had vegans (political vegans, not just health nuts) always be the bitchy ones. Don't even get me started with the anti-leather/fur crowd. I hate those people.

There are literally zero arguments against veganism that don't boil down to pure selfishness

Years ago I met someone who was anti-leather, anti-fur and refused to watch some movie because in the making of the movie, some horses were mistreated.

She liked film photography though. I told her that film contains gelatin. That shut her up well, heh.

Mostly no unless you're one of the retards that throw a shit fit everytime food is even brought up. The over consumption of meat products seem to be more related to the price of meat and how prokies can make massive amounts of money by marketing a meat eating lifestyle that is even more idpol.

but were they putting pineapple on theirs?

hi welcome to leftism
actually fuck wait
welcome to all of philosophy

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r u implying Stirner was an altruist
as if such a thing truly exists

Max's ass is my property, got a problem with that?

Indeed for the individual, Stirner-senpai.

wait i misread the other post

But that doesn't address a few things:
a) the use of crops to feed animals, which "wastes" huge amounts of land (to get the benefits of using non-arable land for animal agriculture meat eating needs to be scaled way back)
b) the destruction of plant diversity and the contribution of animal agriculture to deforestation and
c) the massive production of greenhouse gases like methane, nitrous oxide and carbon dioxide, which are driving us towards environmental catastrophe.

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Anytime a stirnfag tells you veganism is a "spook" simply tell them it's their best interest to be healthy or not wanting their environment collapse. The word vegan seems to a trigger word too, it's why I'm starting to call my diet for what it is; whole foods plant-based, to avoid the association between crazy ethical vegans. It's kind of like how every Holla Forumstard associates all leftism with SJWs. Eating is an emotional issue, hence, the spooked screeching.

will you link them?

These animals aren't fed by crops on farms. They're fed by the land they maintain which has the by-product of reducing CO2 and making more food. This is a net gain.

This is to be done in places with no plants anyway and no forests. Deforestation will happen as people try to grow more corn, which we use for fucking everything.

The soil treated with these animals actually absorbs those things. Did you even watch the video or do even a bit of googling?

Nobody is saying that current industrial meat production is sustainable or desirable. We're saying that the future isn't vegan and it's a shit solution anyway.

That's the part I missed, sorry. But right now that's not how things are so I still see worth in being vegan or vegetarian in the meantime.

I would rather not have other animals die for my sustenance.
But I also believe that cooking is a science, an art, and a form of ritualistic bonding in an intracommunal manner. There are few things as important to society as cooking. Really, I'm just waiting for lab-grown supermeats.

It's a diet.

lol this

Diet + idpol

Well, the idpol would be the [ethical screeching] aspect, but it's not technically inherent to veganism.

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yeah billions of animals being tortured, killed and commodified is identity politics and not a serious issue

second webm suspected of being the same wymyn with eternal victim complex, btw

[Screeching]

I see the Anthropomorphism of animals without even self-awareness continues.

This would likely be the ideal solution as modern society does eat way too much meat.

Thanks user. That second vid made this slimjim taste so much better.

*takes a big bite of steak and chews with mouth open*

Triggered?

kek rich. anthropocentrism has nearly destroyed the planet but w/e do you baconfam

yes

I find you vegans to be the extremely anthropocentric ones due to the degree of your anthropomorphism of animals.

Additionally I am not really a fan of bacon tbh.

you know, not everything has to be politics.

Do you even capitalism? Do you even invisible hand of the market?

It is capitalism but combined with other crap. If you replace capitalism but not the other crap, you don't fix the problem probably. Not like the really existing socialist countries were ever any better in this regard.

I doubt the vegans truly understand, I mean before I have even had some of them here before argue that porkies who run vegan food corporations are "not the same" sort of filth as the non-vegan food porkies.

It's a side effect of a logically oriented economy, where logic, reason and rational ethics lays the foundation of society, instead of "personal freedoms to do what you want, don't care about taking responsibility". The rest is literally excuses that we rationalize to be able to cope with our horrible reality. I thought I couldn't change, but I did when I saw how others could. It's not about virtue signaling, fitting in, "being part" of something, it is about taking responsibility for your actions.

That being said, if you can't afford a plant based diet, there is no logical argument as to why you should starve yourself.

As a vegan, I have no issue with killing an animal if it is for my own survival, as I empirically am the more important creature in the equation. I just can't fathom contributing to unnecessary suffering after what I've learned and come to know during these years of development.

Don't blame yourself for not being perfect, 90% of idealists probably thought at some point that they could never change, yet here we are.
By changing yourself, you can actually have an impact, changing the world.

Please don't give up on your reason and compassion, I thought I did. It's okay to care.

youtube.com/watch?v=XN2FrUUq-zI

Meat is good for the environment.

Factory farming is not.

youtube.com/watch?v=4Z75A_JMBx4