Identity Politics Always Bad?

no the black family fell apart once the welfare state was instituted. black women became whores and mother's to bastards en masse. idiot token students were accepted into all kinds of professions further encouraging corporations to load up their rosters with know-nothing minorities to please SWPL's (like you lol)

fucking weak, low grade understanding of cultural evolution. 0/10 go back to reddit you fag

Then "brocialism" is kind of a redundant term for any non-idealist socialism.

I dunno if you noticed but socialist movements are overrun with identitarian idealism.

...

Look at these pictures.
Idpol claims today is just as bad, if not worse like they had it back then or right now in traditionalist paradieses that are the third world shitholes. Enough so that we can completely ignore the economic aspects (the ""outdated"" aspect written by two muh privileged white maes) and focus on identity liberation instead.

Because fixing shit on a superficial level, fixing the symptoms of fever always gonna help.

That's because Nazis and Post-colonialist post-modernists believe the same thing:
ITS ALL ABOUT RACE

I know you care more about the welfare of random strangers who share the same skintone as you over you not getting cucked out of your rightful salary. The actual salary, not the pittance they give you instead.

I didn't say that.

You are so massively retarded.

not understanding that this actually happened right as the Great Society legislation was passed and welfare was ramped up and section 8 housing was instituted in major cities, proves you're ignorant and an SJW

But it's also usually fundamentally true. All roads lead to the City of London.

That doesn't mean it has a causal relationship you fucking idiot.

Brocialism is what I'm advocating.

Nice

Actually since the correlation is strong and the influence of welfare on particularly black families is decidedly negative it is causal. A strong enough correlation often suggest causation, any good scientist or philosopher knows that. Only social scientists deny this.

I'd like to address identity issues in a brocialist manner, but I don't think we can even do that without liberals hijacking it. This is what OWS (although I wasn't in it) and my own experience with the IWW taught me. Never got involved with it, but the same thing happened with BLM. Fuck liberals.

Whereas the effects of identity politics arise from how one person perceives another, class arises from individuals acting in their self-interest relative to material circumstances. If everyone stopped treating blacks as "niggers", then they would rise to the same status as whites - in fact, this is what happened with Asians, who used to be considered beneath blacks. If everyone denied class and joined hands to sing "kum bah ya" like a bunch of liberals, well, you get this: jacobinmag.com/2017/03/miki-agrawal-thinx-feminism-controversy/

Shut the fuck up, FBI

Only someone who doesn't understand why correlation =/= causation formally could possibly think this. Strength of correlation is irrelevant. The problem is A and B are correlated but they could both be caused by C or in the case of singular events such as this you can't measure strength of correlation because you have one data point. It could be coincidence that the separate causes C and D occurred at near enough the same time to cause your to make the post-hoc fallacy.

This is a fair point but on the flipside don't you run the risk of alienating people when you specifically avoid issues that affect them personally? There's a reason idpol is so popular.

BLM stormed Sanders's stage because he wasn't addressing "their" issues enough, and yet he's now massively popular among blacks, with 2 out of 3 being supportive of "socialism" as it's now known. I feel like identity politics are only popular because of the complete absence of class politics in America (which has spread to the rest of the world with neoliberalism). I've seen tons of "rednecks" become far left after realizing that not everyone on the left loves Muslims, hates white working class people, wants a new welfare state, etc. If they can't be my comrades, no one can because we're all just people at the end of the day. I have to say, I disagree with Bernie on a huge amount of things, not least the destruction of the state and capitalism itself, but he inspired me. The silent majority is there, and it sees itself as proletarian first, maybe white second. According to the muh privilege Olympics, I should care only about idpol because my contrived "identity" supposedly fits several big struggles, but all I care about is class. It does materially connect to their daily issues.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, I just don't like being in near-full agreement with someone so I play devil's advocate.

BLM doesn't equal black people. BLM equals a collection of reactionary uneducated black 'muricans who think fighting institutionalized racism with the same vitriol a KKK member uses will net a positive result.

I'm pro-intersectionality. That doesn't mean that I'm Pro-Oppression Olympics. Racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, hatred of women, misandry, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, etc. and how they interact with class needs to be looked at. But I'm not saying that the grievances of working class cis white males don't matter. I'm a white male after all. But I also live with a disability (diagnosed autism and maybe some undiagnosed learning disabilities). And I have some gender/sexual orientation issues. And I don't want to see our issues ignored.

Where were black Bernie supporters during the Democrat primaries though fam? Hopefully Bernie is able to reach out to them now and can hopefully run again in 2020 or someone else with his progressive ideas will.

I have seen articles online from Huffington Post (shit source I know) and what not about how Bernie Sanders claims to be anti-identity politics. When did Bernie ever say he was against identity politics? I'm pretty sure that Bernie cares about #blacklivesmatter issues (police reform). I don't recall him ever speaking out people on disability. But I get the sense that Grandpa Bernie is the type to legitimately care. He's spoken about NEETs before and was sympathetic towards them.

Communism>humanity>the people>working class>me>you>muh idpol>anything else

Muh dick>your mom

Rejecting identity politics doesn't mean rejecting the existence of racism and sexism, it just means rejecting things like standpoint epistemology, callout culture, and the idea that all white people are inherently racist, all men inherently sexist, no matter how much you educate yourself. Idpol is inherently idealist and defeatist, and gets in the way of actual solidarity and organizing.

Don't have anything to contribute to this except this meme and a sign of my approval. idpol is divisive. Unequivocally, ultimately, inherently.

your absolutist stance is divisive

Do you see what you've done, Holla Forums?

Like any sane socialist, I oppose identity politics, but the anti-idpol obsession on this board and the way in which the tactical question of opposing idpol has been raised here, has confused posters.

This poor OP has been somehow miseducated to believe that all struggles that root themselves in identity are therefore "bad".

Identity politics should not be opposed by simply labeling these struggles as "bad", regardless of context or mood or movement in society. Identity politics should be opposed by clear explanation and critical support; to consistently take the position that while these identity-based movements are raising correct questions, they are providing incorrect answers.

Fundamentally, the early civil rights movements, women's movements, and gay movements were all just that; identity based movements that correctly identified a problem, but ultimately failed to provide the correct solution.

To treat them all as "bad" so naively and simplistically does nothing to further educate our userbase here, nor dispel the myths of idpol in the wider left community.

So librals and other identitarians try to use 'alt-left' for us and the non-identarian left in general(to associate it with the alt-r) though we know that this is bullshit and should actually be applied to them.

Why don't we force the shit out of it then? 'The alt-leftists on reddit' etc.

You are grossly overestimating these people's ability to think critically. They are trapped in a postmodern bubble designed to muffle this critical thought.

No, I fully understand people's ability to think critically and outside of their postmodern bubble. Not everyone, sure, but many many many people. I've had successes in the past, both in real life and online, of breaking down this question for people. In fact, we know for a fact that we get new posters in here from liberal and Holla Forums backgrounds; both idpol.

People can be educated towards socialism. If you don't believe that to be true, how do you imagine socialism to be possible?

I don't think it's impossible. Difficult yes. The reason being is that they have been fully bamboozled into thinking that the muh privilege is associated most of all with race and gender rather than actual class. They've missed the socioeconomic portion of hierarchy entirely and have been pointed towards the wrong direction, not knowing that intersectionality issues root cause that deserves the 100% attention and hostility of all people is capitalism. Another example of the spectacle's misdirection to preserve itself and capitalism.

I'm sure this has been said before but i'll

It's less that identity politics are bad and more than they've come to dominate the discourse of the nation.

Like a movement to help increase wages for workers could come under criticism for heavy idpolers for not having enough minority representation, as it without this the ends cannot be adequately met, even if the goal of the movement transcends race.

Using this, any ruling class can effectively divide the under class by stirring up relatively meaningless and counter-productive racial hatred.

But sorta idpol organizations can transcend these things. Case in point Fred Hampton, Black Panther who united a very diverse coalition under a single banner for social progress.

Hence why I put "their" in quotation marks. I hate it when people claim to speak for each other. We're all individuals, know your place, you know?

He's not, but he's by far the closest thing to /ourguy/ in the mainstream. There were no black Bernie supporters in the primaries because all the states with large black populations voted first and he only became visible towards the ends of the primaries because Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was rigging everything to reduce visibility.

I become a little sick every time I see someone say what the HuffPo said, even if they say they don't like it. I fucking hate the idpol left so much. Humanity is going to die from capitalism-driven climate change because they wouldn't shut up about transgender rights and black lives. "every struggle is equal!". Bullshit.

He's not going to run in 2020, he'll actually be too old. I'm sure he'll get someone. I have an idea: he starts running, gets together everyone, then drops out and explicitly hands the mantle onto someone else. Ultimately, though, we need to find a way beyond social democracy.

They can be, but we must become a meme first, a one-side, angry meme that is the tip of a socialist iceberg. We need to do some serious rebranding. First off, find out how to do something extremely cruel-spirited to SJWs in a way that makes it known that we exist. Until we disassociate ourselves from them, we will accomplish nothing because they're so much louder and more numerous. We can't afford to be quiet right now, the stakes are too high for humanity.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, if anything an intelligent person is even harder to reason with because they are much more mentally capable of making up rationalizations for their dumb beliefs.

kys

I would argue the opposite. Its main successes were ensuring African-Americans were treated as formally equal under law. Qualitatively not much else has changed; the US is still racist as hell, it's just illegal to outright conduct a lynching.

So you think that someone with a disability (let's say they're in a wheelchair) shouldn't get special muh privileges or extra welfare?

what happened with the IWW?