Basic Economics

Because Economics as a whole is simply state philosophy. It exists to justify the actions of capitalism and the economic policies that are being used in certain times and places

The free market is the biggest meme since religion

Maybe because the Maxist books ain't worth jack shit not do any of his ideologies work in the real world either?

Is this that "marginal utility" that libertfags talk about? Because it's expensive that must be its objective value?

"I haven't read it but it's probably garbage unless it sticks to the most basic ideas and admits they have no relationship to material reality."
Judging the book by it's cover I'd think "ooh, anarchism, probably some nifty stuff" but they made a big mistake and put the author's name on the cover so I'd know it's by le token negro of reee gubmint.

For the same reason priests push the "God" meme so hard.

They wouldn't have a job if they didn't.

lmao, the accuracy

...

He's alright.

Shiggy.

where has he been recently?

hmm…
incidentally, public choice theory is the dumbest shit:

I do what the market wants, I become rich. I do what the market doesn't want, I become poor. It's almost like voodoo, but instead of creating meaning by interpreting bones it is creating meaning from the very real amount of money in my bank account. Magic! God!

He retired.

Same shit.

What "the market" is is the collective desires and values of society as revealed by their economic choices. Everyone SAYS that they care about the environment, but when it comes down to their purchasing decisions, they don't. Liberal or conservative, communist or libertarian: environmentalism is about sacrifices that OTHER PEOPLE need to make. It is an exercise in invoking the violence of the state against the Jew-of-the-day. And that is revealed through "the market" by looking at the things people buy: the use-values that actors with free will exchange their money for. One "listens to the market" by looking at who society has decided to make rich and who society has decided to make poor.

The goal of socialism is to subsume the free will of the masses to intellectual clerics, a scientific-technological elite. And while "the market" tends toward kleptocracy, that is not its goal. It is a superior system.

this line of thinking existing is why i have sympathy for the khmer rouge.

I don't know where you're from, but in America "work or starve" is not valid. One can go to soup kitchens. While it is done poorly, the poor get fed and they continue to live: year after year. You say "work or starve" because you feel entitled to the labor of other human beings; you feel entitled to the benefits of social existence, while doing nothing to advance that society. You are the kind of entitled, lazy human being that has destroyed every communist society that has ever come into existence. Even under communism: "from each according to his ability". You, however, believe that it is just "to each according to his needs". A true paragon of communism is successful under either system.

And a true paragon of communism is successful under Capitalism because they provide value to other human beings and other human beings acknowledge that, with money. Look at all the worthless Feminist trash on Patreon. Communism isn't about "gibs me dat", it's about asking what you can do for the proletariat. And until you do that, you are nothing but petty slave master trying to turn all other humans into your property, and I will continue to support the petty slave masters who are trying to turn other human beings their profit.

I'm entitled to beat your cunt face in with a rifle butt.
I don't want anything except to inflict suffering on certain people.

The joint stock corporation is a form of organisation that explicitly designed to eliminate moral accountability. If a CEO refuses to do something that would increase shareholder values for moral reason he may face criminal charges. Also you seem to be assuming capitalism is a system of rational actors working with accurate information, while in reality, deception and irrationality are built into the system. Why else would corporations spend billions in advertising? shopping malls, chain restaurants, the social apps you use everyday are explicitly designed to maximise the profit which can be extracted off you.

i dont understand

In short oversimplification, you can't trust anyone because they'll do the "rational" thing and fuck you like a comic book villain who bought viagra instead of tic-tacs

You mean like the bourgeoisie…? Who make money not from labor, but from owning stuff…? Think this shit through, genius.

Fuck you. We have more houses than homeless people. Eat shit, you classcucked retard.

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little sujectivist? I'll
have you know I graduated top of my class at liberationschool.org, I've
been involved in numerous internet debates, I have over 300 confirmed thought-
experiments. I am trained in Dialectical Materialism and i'm the top Marxman in
my local naxalite-maoist gun club. You are nothing to me but another bourgeois
economist. I will fucking shatter your individualist ideology with materialism
the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, Marx my fucking
words. You think you can get away with saying this shit about "Marginal Utility"
and "Human Nature" over the Internet? Think again fucker. As we speak I am
contacting my secret network of entryists across the USA and your party
membership is being traced right now so you better prepare for the oncoming
crisis, Maggot. The crisis that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call
"market equilibrium". You're fucking dead, grandpa. I can be anywhere, any time,
and I can debunk your economics in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with
the first volume of Das Kapital. Not only I am extensively trained in 18th
century political economy, but I have access to the entire Marxists.org Internet
Archive and I will use it to wipe your immiserating ideology of the face of this
earth, you little shit. If only you could have known what revisionist
retribution your little "economistic" comment was about to bring down on you,
maybe you would have held your fucking tounge. But you couldn't, you didn't, and
now your paying the price of yet-another-economic-crisis, you goddamn idiot.
I will shit a-prioi concepts all over you and you will fucking drown in them.
You're fucking dead.

The point is that the "market" is an abstraction, it doesn't actually "want" anything.

That option isn't available. Pollution and environmental destruction is a necessary part of the process of capital accumulation because it allows producers to offload and reduce costs. There is no such thing as "environmentally friendly capitalism".

It should also be noted that the medium of the market exchange alienates the buyer from the productive process. People see the products as their own agents and don't see the process used to produce them, so pollution (among a great many other things) is hidden from the consumer.

It's about the need to act in unison to prevent environmental catastrophe.

Oh give me a break. The capitalist market wouldn't exist without the violence of the state.

What's produced under capitalism has nothing to do with use-value. Also, as the other poster pointed out, you act like buyers and sellers are all rational actors with accurate information, which couldn't be further from the truth.

The capitalist market is hardly the "free will of the masses". Companies actively do everything they can to change the market in their favor.

Except it is. The logic that governs capital reproduction demands that you take more in than you put out, and in ever greater amounts.

So your answer to this problem is the existence of paternalistic charities?

No, that's literally the bourgeoisie.

Says the fuck who has never actually studied any "communist" societies.

Fun fact: the USSR fell, not because of "lazy people", but because they attempted to implement free market reforms.

But, it isn't. The consumer HIDES from pollution because it gets in the way of their feelies. It makes them moralize about the centrifugal bumble-puppy. The fact is that pollution and environmental destruction is a necessary part of the process of production (capitalist or communist) and any philosophy that aims to curb pollution aims to impoverish all of humanity.

OTHER PEOPLE needing to act, while your lifestyle does not change

True. Society wouldn't exist without the violence of the state.

Then why do people buy it?
If they aren't, how can they come up with a rational plan for society.

This is why communism breaks down: the people that you think are irrational idiots are ultimately the people who have to make the plan for what society produces. In communism, these idiots plan all of society; in the free market, they only get their two cents.

Everything but dictate to you what you will buy. Even when you have only one option, you have two options: you still have the option not to buy.

The goal of the market is to have capitalists constantly destroying one another to feast upon their flesh.

And they attempted free market reforms because the free market is better at giving the masses of the people the things that they desire.

Objectively false. The market reforms caused a massive economic crash in the former Warsaw Pact that lasted nearly a decade. This is why the Soviet Union fell. The magic of the free market didn't deliver anything to anyone, it did the exact opposite.

Yet sometimes capitalists use planned economy and the state to destroy each other

Seems like you fell for the leftcom meme

Let us assume for a moment that the free market was only good at giving the oligarchs that had come to run the Soviet Union the things that THEY desired. Whence come these greedy men?

You are a good cleric of communism, no? You will never fall prey to that desire? You will never see the baubles of muh privilege as your rightful payment from society for your enlightened lead? Your heightened intellect and moral superiority?

The fact is, Capitalists run everything. They ran the Soviet Union to the ground because where there is government, there are capitalists eating one another who call themselves politicians. That given, I won't give them the keys to the kingdom, just the keys that they kill each other over.

Siese the Free-Market requires everyone to be rational actors, why don't us Socialists just flood it with non-profits, cherites, and cooperatives. We'll break down market forces and AnCaps can't touch us because of there stupid NAP.

only post-soviet russia has oligarchs

They implemented free market reforms because they fell for the neoliberal meme and thought it would revitalize the economy and turn Eastern Europe into the LA suburbs just like on American TV.

NAP is literally the divine right of kings, it's an excuse for why the current order is legitimate, no one will actually follow it, not even AnCaps, because it would be unprofitable to do so.

Ancaps won't touch anything anyway. They aren't an actual threat, they're just useful idiots.

What I'm saying is that Communists are Capitalists: you both desire and seek to expropriate the labor of other human beings for your own gain. The difference is that the Capitalist convinces others to give their labor to him, the communist has only violence to resort to. And they convince people: they convince them they they NEED the shiny baubles, that those shiny baubles are a REQUIREMENT TO HUMAN LIFE, that the individual WOULD BE DEAD without those shiny baubles. It's all a sham, a sham that you too have fallen for. To be clear, Capitalists are fucking greedy douche-bags, but so are you. You are both only human: only greedy humans that scrape their meager existence from the earth and wish only for their children to live to reproduce.

If we get AnCaps to violate the NAP they'll look like hypocrites.

If Communism and Capitalism is both shit then that means Socialism with a state is the way to go. Who would've thought?

I still don't really understand where the line is drawn between "you can't stand on my property, that ultimately justifies me shooting you if you won't fuck off" and "your soundwaves aggressively penetrated my eardrums against my will."

I mean, I get it in a lolberg system where there are skeleton government courts to call you out on being a dickhead - but ancap?

You understand neither capitalism nor communism.
Read a fucking book.
(Any book. I suggest "A B C with Ronald Mc'D", mostly because it sounds corporate and it doesn't actually exist.)

...

Yeah, it's communism that extorts people with violence all-right.

And, no, we're not wannabe capitalists. Capitalists themselves are slaves to the inhuman logic of capital. We want to undo the brutal logic of our system and create something new, a system without classes.

See

I'm finishing Volume 3 of Capital right now. Marx is an idiot who tries to baffle people with bullshit.

A system without classes where you are the enlightened shepherds of humanity, not above everyone else, but effectively above everyone else.

economics by nature will tend to be capitalist apology whether it advocates a more free market approach or a more welfare-state-ish model. Haven't read that work in particular yet though so I couldn't really tell ya there until I have.
The communist approach to economics should be a critical examination these categories that the field has produced in the first place. This is what Marx was trying to do in Capital, in large part.

if you wan't longer, there's a lot of options. that's just a basic introduction to Marx's work regarding political economy and subsequent marxist work in that area.

FUCJK

A system without classes is possible.

This user is woke.

I think "how do we prevent the restoration of capitalism" is a serious question. The key features of Communism are:

Every socialist state so far has restored capitalism. This means that either

With no money, you will have a difficult time acquiring raw materials that don't exist in your area from capitalist states. You will have to barter for everything. You also might have black markets that will need to be squashed to prevent the restoration of capitalism - once money exists again people might start trying to produce items for profit. Similarly, someone might try to start producing goods for profit by "privatizing" their property, in the sense of utilizing it for production for profit.

It seems like an extensive surveillance apparatus would be needed to prevent the restoration of capitalism in a socialist state.

A system without classes where you are the enlightened shepherds of humanity, not above everyone else, but effectively above everyone else.
No. Stop projecting your bullshit on us.

Communism is a global system.

Would you agree that attempting to establish a socialist state is impossible and the only possibility is a global uprising?

REALTALK: Did anyone even read the book or what?

Ideally yes. However it will be spread by a single state or alliance of states in order to better organize resistance against capitalist imperialists.

Single state socialism is possible, but only market socialism. The establishment of communism cannot come until capitalism has fallen.

Or at least has become irrelevant and whatever remnants remain can be brushed aside.

I've never priced an asset the post.

Not to mention major corporations make concerted efforts to stamp out potential products that would make them obsolete. Gas companies literally worked to discredit the concept of the electric car for years. Now their putting out phony climate data from paid scientists saying that climate change isn't real. It's just like tobacco companies hiring doctors to write bogus reports saying smoking doesn't cause cancer.

People will consume the products that are provided to them, and the products that are provided to them will be made as cheaply and sold as expensively as possible. The best way to do this is with a total disregard for the environment.

The market isn't the collective desires of the population, it's simply the sum total of whatever it is profitable to produce combined with whatever people are willing to settle for.

sowell is literally a Holla Forums tier idiot.

karl marx is the best. i personally like joseph schumpeter's and peter bofinger's works as well. bofinger's Grundzüge der Volkswirtschaftslehre (isbn: 978-3827372222) is a good and comprehensive introduction into economics, i don't know if it's available in english language though.

thomas sowell was a token black libertarian that was popular in the right wing.
Anyone who recommends you that garbage was most likely a fedora libertarian fagola.

If you want to read something from a modern more leftwing perspective read pic related

The question of "how do we prevent the restoration of capitalism and keep communism" is about as relevant as "how do we prevent the restoration of feudalism and keep capitalism"

(Though while I say this flippantly, with the current state of neoliberal capitalism, you never know…)

Absolutely bourgeois

of course not

leftypol btfo

I like Adam Smith too.

If you think I can be converted to pro capitalist views by some event like a 6 figure inheritance, then by that logic if you don't end up becoming a property owner in your newfound ancap/libertarian society, you will join communism.

his definition of free market is the opposite of what it is today then

the people = the state, though.

First world countries with freer markets tend to have lower inequality though. Crony Capitalism is a real problem.

Also, The USSR had far less inequality than the US in the 50s.

that's finance, not economics :^)