What's your opinion of this show Holla Forums? How did a show like this, lacking a neoliberal ideological agenda...

What's your opinion of this show Holla Forums? How did a show like this, lacking a neoliberal ideological agenda, manage to get so popular in the us?

Other urls found in this thread:

jacobinmag.com/2015/03/the-americans-review-capitalism-communism-consumerism/
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Here's a Jacobin's review which argues it furthers a neoliberal agenda

jacobinmag.com/2015/03/the-americans-review-capitalism-communism-consumerism/

Good article. I never argued that the showrunner was a socialist or a leftist, and while of course at the end of the barrel there's always liberal ideology, it doesn't really scream liberal ideology. And think of the "good" it does vs the bad.


Does it present in a genuine way what marxism is about? Of course not, or it wouldn't be airing in the us. Does it glorify austerity? Yes it does, knowingly. But does it also dispel the socialist aesthetic? (despite trying not to). After lets say 10 of these types of shows, at a point in the future, will the worker maybe not have such a knee-jerk negative reaction to the word communism? Will the viewer maybe link the mujahideen the us is training in afghanistan with 9/11? Does this show open the door for something more radical to be accepted in mainstream television?

another funny thing ive noticed is how careful they are to avoid leftist rhetoric. they always say things like "for our country" or "for the cause", "for freedom", but never use the leftist rhetoric a communist would

This show is by no-means pro-communist, but its not the type of propaganda you would expect either. I remember really liking how the female lead is a true believe in socialism and always talks about her kids becoming trade unionists and stuff like that. It isn't just the typical evil Russian trying to destroy America angle.

I can't say I ever though of it this way but that seems accurate.

I've enjoyed the show. Went in expecting cheesy cartoon villains Soviets versus the good guys, but instead found something more interesting. The Jacobin review I think nails it well.

the americans even has a scene directly mocking idpol

ye but it does glorify austerity and doesn't really present marxism (or even mention it) at all.

i just think it does some good, even if it does propagate austerity. what i personally believe is that things like austerity, no matter how much you propagate them as "virtuous sacrifice", at the end of the day cannot be idealized completely. Hunger is hunger, no matter how good you paint it. So when hunger hits, no one will think of the americans and say "ill stay hungry for my country". Dispelling communism on the other hand though through the liberals' own media will have long term benefits. My personal opinion is that detournement of propaganda in the way debord suggests is a very good weapon in a deeply indoctrinated society like the modern us one

I'm somewhat familiar with the concept of detournement, thought I haven't read debord. Does it effectively just mean appropriating or re-purposing, what would the detornement of propaganda look like practically?

basically using capitalist aesthetic and media to expose it's true nature. an example would be the socialist meme pages on facebook, if the admins weren't liberals.

Holy fuck that BuzzFeed linked in the Jacobin article.

Anti-communist click bait, I've seen it all now

where? cant find it

it's in the fourth paragraph, the "knee-jerk anti-communism" link

Beware, its really awful.

I thought it was closer to 10 garillion

They're hating on the DSA too, which is such an innocuous group. Certainly not MLs, but to these people what's the difference eh?

ENOUGH

Its pretty shit and its careful to never put communism in a good light. It is moderately entertaining but gets tiresome after a few episodes.

I expect to see a lot more of that soon, its pretty unbelievable these people cant see Putin using old Soviet imagery and triumphs as nationalist propaganda rather than wishing for Communism to return, but I suppose i'm really expecting too much of them.


I'm interested in it, just to see if Jacobin is right about it (and the general consensus of the board too).

it's all part of neoliberal idealism, what debord calls "recuperation"

They portray the 1980s Soviet Union and its foreign intelligence service. I'm not quite sure how revolutionary the rhetoric was by that point.

The USSR was a pretty conservative society by the 80s. I don't know how many KGB agents were motivated by Marxism rather than "muh motherland" anyway.

Female lead is 10/10 though, jesus christ, would smash.

I dunno m8. Sometimes I think leftypol plays down the strength of ideology and belief. Cubans suffered hunger without revolt following the collapse of the USSR. It has been very common throughout the history of human ideology (especially in the case of religion) to valorize ascetic deprivation as overcoming the material for the sake of the higher.

But I don't think people would endure hunger under capitalism alone, because capitalist austerity doesn't promise a better future or anything to suffer for. It just tells you that this is a necessity of reality, we must cut back because there is no other choice. For a communist, there is the revolutionary struggle. Some kind of better future is ahead for this sacrifice. But a part of why austerity or decline can be dangerous in capitalism is because capitalism can take on the aspect of intense ideological commitment through transformation into fascism. Fascism can both promise you a better future, in the sort of techno-fascist utopia, and also declare that present suffering is for the sake of the nation or people, which is held as the highest ideal.