Tito was so based even Holla Forums likes him

Yugoslavia gets way too much slack on this board for the same things the USSR, PRC, Cuba, etc. get shit on for being tankie bullshit. Not surprising Holla Forumsyps would rally behind it even faster because it had very obvious patriotic undertones and the state promoted an attitude and aesthetic line they would characterize as "based" and "anti-degenerate".

As an ex-Yugoslav, I can tell you that the only real-world purpose of "Yugoslav self-management" was to make strikes illegal. After all, "the workers manage themselves, it says it here in the law!", so a strike isn't a strike but an uprising and they were dealt with as such. Yugoslavia was a true Stalinist state, and people were sent to Goli Otok not only for telling a joke about the party or Tito, but for laughing at such jokes as well/ Everyone was being ratted on to the state for anything by their neighbors. But because of the ties to the western countries, the dictatorship wasn't as brutal as others were. If you weren't a political dissident, if you never talked about politics anywhere, you could have made an ok living. Employment was much higher than now, and people, overall, were much happier. However, raising your kids to be apolitical turned out to be bad. When new states were created in the war, the old party members suddenly became democrats and nationalists and remained in the positions they were, because the generation that should have taken their place was taught to be apolitical.

Ultimately, I'd much rather have another Yugoslavia than what we have now speaking in "realpolitik" terms. But a federalist Yugoslavia, sharing only an army, education and healthcare system. The various nationalities here aren't naturally hostile to each other… but Belgrade was the capital, and in such a centralised country all the money naturally went there. An ultranationalist reaction to this was a natural consequence, unfortunately, and it didn't take the capitalist crisis to ignite it (it definitely was the straw that broke the camel's back, though). It wasn't instigated by the peoples themselves but by the local politicians who weren't happy about losing their money.

Also, since I'm already ranting here, how about an anecdote? My grandfather was a local doctor in a small town, and one day a man with a metal plate in his skull came to him for standard medical examination. They started talking a bit, and my grandfather asked him about the plate. The man knew he could trust my grandfather not to rat him out, so he told him how it happened. Turns out, the man was part of a team sent to assassinate one of Tito's rivals in the early '50s. They did it, but a few days later they were all assassinated themselves. They were sent on an "assignment" to an empty field and snipers took them down and left them for dead. He managed to survive because it wasn't a direct hit. Imagine that shit. Also, why could he trust my grandfather? Because my grandfather was a (always moderately, but extra moderately because of the regime of course) baptist, and since, of course, all baptists are US spies (a well known fact to the government!), the government made grandpa's life hard, so the man knew he wouldn't ever help the government.

Here's one of the few decent articles on the "self-management" I could recommend (there is not much on Yugoslavia in English from what I've seen): transform-network.net/journal/issue-092011/news/detail/Journal/workers-self-management-in-yugoslavia-an-ambivalent-experience.html

Cheers.

lel, who did this

definitely 8/pol/ shitter trying to undermine the thread who posted that.

I'm actually surprised at how many people there actually like Yugoslavia because while there are definitely people fighting in the thread about it there are a lot more people than I thought there would be praising and defending it

how do we use this?

what does this even mean? do you actually know what realpolitik is?

Holla Forums likes anything that's nationalistic and white lel

Kek. Good taste in artist :^)
Who /turbofolk/ here.

The comfy song in the Polack's OP
youtube.com/watch?v=gsKn5KX6XnU

I'm not even a nationalist and I like Yugoslavia. Its pretty damn moronic that each country in Yugoslavia wanted to make their own special little country, because they speak a slightly different dialect than the people on the other side of the mountains. Now none those countries have any relevance, who gives a shit about Croatia.

He was the only communist leader not corrupted and controlled by jews.

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"Glad the commies took all your shit" Ayy lmao

kek you nerds are intellectually stunted and emotionally broken

Is that just something Yugoslavs do?

Pretty cool seeing this all laid out, because its kind of how I've felt about America all the time in regard to its absolutely horrific history but interesting and uplifting socialist/working class history.

I think I'm definitely a socialist patriot, per Tito's definition. I abhor nationalism and conservatism, I don't hate my country, I see socialism as a genuine improvement for my home.

It's always deeply ironic when libs and demsocs say this.

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Gotta teach them that communism isn't anti-patriotism. We're just against workers killing each other for porky power struggles. Maybe afterwards show that jews are just a spook.

That's just casual. Ask a Serb if you want more realistic picture. Or ask a Croat if you want to know the real shit.

Most people didn't but America funded nationalists to break Yugoslavia.

its like a dignified way of looking at the national spirit. The goal is to uplift one's own people, without making the lives of neighboring countries more miserable.

Not that I doubt you, but do you have any links to substantiate this? I see it repeated here often.

youtu.be/GEzOgpMWnVs

Žižek mentions in one of the documentaries that he's hated by Slovene Left because he refuses to indulge in yugonostalgia, or something like that

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whats the difference betwen Titos market socialism and national syndicalism?

Back when Fidel (PBUH) ascended, a couple of Holla Forumsyps mentioned how he was one of the gommies they could respect, another one being Tito, because they were leaders with balls.

There is none: both are capitalists.

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Why is it that natbol memes are always low resolution.

Pick one

With the seizing of the means of production by society production of commodities is done away with, and, simultaneously, the mastery of the product over the producer. Anarchy in social production is replaced by systematic, definite organisation. The struggle for individual existence disappears. Then for the first time man, in a certain sense, is finally marked off from the rest of the animal kingdom, and emerges from mere animal conditions of existence into really human ones. The whole sphere of the conditions of life which environ man, and which have hitherto ruled man, now comes under the dominion and control of man who for the first time becomes the real, conscious lord of nature because he has now become master of his own social organisation.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch03.htm

It's meant to show how sharp they can think.

Yugosoc was basically capitalism with some "collectivist" rituals and socialist imagery thrown in but even that only as a public pretend-ideology.

Was Yugo a true market socialist state?

The dialectic is in fucking motion famrad

What's left to do is show them that Nazi Germany was capitalistic, afterwards that the social decay is actually "Cultural Capitalism" and not Marxism, and boom they're in the bag.

i always thought croats LOVED tito

So was USSR and kekalonia what's your point?

>loving a man that destroys your country's almost thousand years struggle for independence after finally getting it

To some extent they did, as Tito's dad was a Croat.

But the fucking Catholic Church man…

Fuck off Ustaša cunt.

Also, they did nothing wrong.

The polyps are learning…

Tito was fluent in Esperanto and tried to spread it, but the Serbian nationalists stopped him.

books.google.com/books?id=3LqqGU3p_noC&pg=PA255&lpg=PA255&dq=tito esperanto&source=bl&ots=8-tNfxFxNG&sig=wCT7XGqilApOBFXgsXc7ztie_T8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVj7ypg-vSAhVojFQKHeb-BBkQ6AEIMzAD#v=onepage&q=tito esperanto&f=false

No. There are some hopeless people who are nostalgic, but the majority of Croatians were relieved when Yugoslavia fell. I am a socialist, of course, but Tito's Yugoslavia was anything but a wonderland in harsh reality. I talk to Serbs and Slovenes, friends of mine, and they and their families are not nationalists. They say the same thing. Western leftists who idealize something they never lived under are very much a disappointment. I here very much agree with Zizek, and precisely as a socialist I agree with Zizek when he says we should forget people like Castro and regard experiments like Yugoslavia as the failures they were.

inthesetimes.com/article/19677/the-left-fidelity-castration-slavoj-zizek-fidel-castro-cuba-che-communism

Muh culture and muh independence plays no part in any of my beliefs. I'm an internationalist.

odjebi ustašo

Sjedi Srbin ispred krsta jede govna sa tri prsta.

And what,the other countries didn't try to gain independence.
Hell most of them WANTED a unified South Slavic kingdom.
Goli Otok wasn't enough.

al ovaj je vas
ne nas

another case of Ustasa retard cant into history

it was you faggots that wanted us to unite
and you all turned your backs on germany quite quickly when Tito came

This is our chance to engage class consciousness comrades, Uz Marsala Tito!

yes, you're certainly a great historian with a nuanced understanding using terms such as "you all"

yeah and the soviet actions against rootless cosmopolitans were totally unjustified

Tito was a fucking retard who had more luck than brains.

More luck in the War because the only reason why Partisans won was the fact that idiot Pavelić ordered retreat. Up to the point when Ustaše retreated, Partisans were getting BTFO on every occasion, and couldn't poke out of their holes in the mountains. Absolutely no strategy, no tactics, no leadership other than crude meatgrinding and raiding supplies from defenseless villagers. Pathetic.

Then he got immensely lucky to die before the effect of his idiotic IMF sponsored luxurious statecraft aka Socialism™ came to a logical conclusion - starvation, poverty, cronyism, and in the end, utter collapse. If he survived, I think he would end up like Ceausescu. Probably not, since every state made after collapse of Yugoslavia is former UDBA controlling things under NATO made of former KPJ members. And ex-Yugoslavians are spineless thugs, no guts to evolve, only to serve.

I don't know who is more retarded, rednecks from Imotski who think he was a Communist, or Yugonostalgics and millennial Lefties who think he was a Communist.

Most hilarious thing is listening to the old fucks reminiscing how Yugoslavia was a paradise where everything was free. Usually I told them to go take a loan of million dollars, and after they've spent it, do nothing, and be surprised when a bank or a loan shark breaks your bones. That's Yugoslavia in a nutshell.

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When Holla Forums rails against "the Jews in power" but they make no mention of this group being overwhelmingly masculine
Really makes your brain function
the Bourgeoisie isn't even a Jewish majority

But muh idealized dead heroes… it's not like there's anyone alive worth a damn…

I have no idea about luck during WW2 but he avoided capture like a million times so he wasn't completely clueless.

But there aren't enough words to describe how moronic it was to trust in the IMF, that's on par with Aztecs worshipping the first Spanish as gods.

???

What do you think about this?.
boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/118281100#p118289236

wnd.com/2013/03/horrific-human-toll-of-militant-atheism-exposed/

jews are 11% of global billionaires and control between 11-15% of global wealth, whites control between 20-30%, asians 22-25%, hispanics and Arabs about 10% a piece, blacks less than 5%

Holla Forums is confirmed $$$deep-state$$$

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holy crap there have been jews in Germany before WWII? Who would've known.

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nationalism is always a blatantly retarded spook to divide the proletariat, but when it comes to people like croats and serbs that are essentially the same shit, these claims become ridiculous

odjebi majmune, u progresnom si boardu

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"How to make a strawman and then blow him away" by Serbian Retard

"Brilliant work!" -Stefan Molyneux
"Truly inspiring." -Sam Harris

except religion is literally where croatians base their whole idpol

no, you're just dumb as shit

nice argument

yours wasn't much either

But that is what most of us modern (ethno)nationalists say though.

Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, and Europe to Europeans (for america at best there would be racial partitions, or at least civic nationalism). those more aware of what meddling with other's affairs led to do not want to go back to imperialism.

but i dont have to provide arguments for clearly visible facts. i dont have to convince you the sky is blue, since we both see it is blue

glad you're acknowledging your "logic"

definition of feels>reals right there.

>>>Holla Forums

what is your endgame here? abolishing world borders? or just reinstating the yugoslav "nation"?

jesus christ, we aren't the same people because we were never the same people other than for 45 years. 45 years in more than a millenium of both croatian and serbian history. it's not just religion we're talking about, it's the whole concept of self and your boiling it down to "well, we make the sign of the cross like this and they make it like this" is childish.

the only concept of self that matters is your relationship to the means of production. you are a person, not some caricature "croatian". who and what you are depends on the ideology you absorb, people were feudalist, then they were nazis, then socialists, now capitalists. The point is every system tries to push proletariat division on you by saying that you are different than others because of nationality/religion or in the case of the us, race. Those are all abstract idealist notions perpetuated by the ruling class, the only division that you should take in as your "self" is a materialistic one, and that is your relationship to the means of production. The capitalist understands this, that's why the capitalist will do business with the jewish capitalist, the saudi capitalist, the us capitalist, the chinese capitalist, because they are his fellow bourgeoisie. National division is meant for you, not for them. You must be alienated, you must feel like you're different than the other proles 2 countries next to you, so that you will never collectively organize, while he snorts cocaine with wall-street sharks and saudi princess and laughs at your dumb ass.

This is reality user. It would be a good thing if you woke up from your idealistic fantasies and your spooks on which you blame your misfortunes and base your sense of self-worth, and understand how the world functions and what causes all those things you hate.

I do neither, but I guess that's hard to understand when you spend your time jerking off to the sound of your voice while repeating the word "spooks" over and over again.

You will never break down the nation spook. People will always want to belong. Work around it.

read marx you uneducated pleb. nothing remains static, you dont live in a permanent "end-game" society, you live in a dot in the timeline of humanity.

seriously read a fucking book, your ignorance nauseates me. at least don't project it so smugly, when you're so blatantly uneducated

yes, the need for belonging was created "a few years ago"

of course, trade was unheard of 1000 years ago

you are a dumbshit that will never have an ounce of political relevance and that's a good thing because, as I said, you're a dumbshit

the concept of nationality was created a few years ago, yes.

i was referring to the monarch's divine right to rule, which had been around since ancient egypt. but yes, private property, in the form of ownership of the means of production, didn't become the dominant mode of production until a few years ago. the vast majority of land before that was owned by either the ruling monarch or aristocrats for thousands of years.

just stop. i know, i just know you have never opened a single fucking book in your life. your dumb fucking positions scream "i dont understand dialectical materialism", and in your own ignorance you cannot even see the irony of the proud idiot that you embody. open a book, that is all you need to do to stop being an idiot. or at least don't pretend you're smart, when you are just reproducing liberal ideology and we both know that you have never read any serious theory. why do you think you know better than me, when we both also know i'm clearly more educated and my opinion has been through a refining process that you haven't even begun yet? you need to feel smart? who are you trying to convince, me? explaining these things to you feels like talking to a child to me, so you're not impressing me with your contrarian attitude. are you trying to persuade yourself? i don't understand what your goal is here really.

just open marx, read some history, screenshot this post and read it in a few years. your existence will cringe with the things you're writing atm

congrats, you sound like a copypasta
that's how retarded you are

you're not even responding with arguments. you write 2 strawmen and 1 ad hominem and think you "won the argument"? why are you so proud in your ignorance? why not just actually read theory and become educated? are you too lazy?

you will never accomplish anything of political worth

what do you define as political worth?

t. borderline illiterate no arguments man

good luck getting anything more than 1-2% of votes with the brilliant "nations don't exist, we are all one" platform

are you baiting?

your fat ass will surely be on the barricades screaming "no pasaran"

this is what happened the last time communists gave up arms to participate in bourgeoisie elections mr. classcuck

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Varkiza

i can't handle all this well articulated discourse user