Shoot n loot

All games are first person because you watch them through your own eyes.

How about you fuck off.

Escape From Tarkov? It's more about tacticool antics and survival. But the whole game is just lootin and shootin

How can you possibly avoid the bullet sponge problem?

Stalker is the best one tbh.

By giving bosses more attack patterns that are hard to shoot at and require some thought instead of giving you a thing that runs a straight line to you nonstop while firing a minigun endlessly until it dies. Hell maybe weakpoints that actually trigger a reaction from the boss instead of just "shoot the face for bigger number", maybe shooting something holding their ammo so they have to retreat and get their shit together leaving them exposed. Anything is better than just "keep emptying your magazines on this guy for 5 more minutes while he does the exact same thing"

I was gonna say 2 examples but then remembered "oh wait, the division is also doing that" and then forgetting that i said first person Diablo clones. not sure what else to call them though, Diablo shooters? I don't wanna call them first person RPG's because that would group them together with vampire the masquerade: bloodlines and dark messiah of might and magic and that is just wrong.

It had shit weapon ballistics and the exosuits were not suppressing the firearms' recoil like they should have been. But I still do agree with you.

From what I've seen, I'm pretty sure that's Destiny. It's the same patterns over and over with increased HP and spawns. They did about as great a job as anyone could do.

I don't think it is possible to make compelling procedural content. After the handcrafted content is learned, these games are purely the player gambling their time for loot, driven by some emotional disorder. There is no opponent other than the probability of a drop and the pain of real life, I would hardly consider it a game.

The first one is better. The looter-shooter elements actually ruined it, along with the "open" levels being almost complete dogshit (there are some nice areas but most of the verticality is bullshit). Also in the second game you've got some diversity hire chick in your head instead of a wise-ass demon

*most of the verticality is useless
is what I meant to say

They don't even feel open-world at all, you were just teleported into a zone to complete one objective at a time. If you could do a lot of quests just in a single zone, it could've worked, but most of the time, it was corridors hidden in an "open world".

There was also that quest with the shrunk Nobitsura Kage, the end of that quest was just insulting when you know Shadow Warrior 1 ended.

...

whee

I played borderlands on my 360 a few months after it came out and I loved it and felt that despite its kinks a sequel could be the next Diablo 2 for me. The ending of the first game led me to believe the sequel would take place on several different planets with unique biomes and learning more about the eridians and the vault monster. If they tightened up the shooting and kept the story on track borderlands 2 would probably still be on my hard drive. I will say that I feel BL2 is an objectively superior game, but only in comparison to the first one. But they kept the game on Pandora, filled it with memes, and made the shooting feel worse somehow. They didn't even fucking give the characters multiple abilities. The number 1 complaint people had about the first game.

A really big disappointment.

What about Hellgate: London, the original FPS diablo clone. it sucked

I've played all of these so here are my thoughts.

Blands 1 was fun to play with friends for a bit, although once we stopped playing together I didn't pick it up again. But it had some character to it and wasn't all that bad. Blands 2 I pirated and played for an hour, and after the awful forced humor (lmao butt stallions rofl xdxdxd) I had to chuck it. Even for free that game is atrocious.

I picked up The Division when it first came out, but everything was so goddamn bullet spongy, and there wasn't a lot of cool things you could do. It was mostly just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot in some generally bland environments. The PVP Dark Zone shit was interesting in concept but failed in execution (players would just group up and gang up on entrances and murder anyone who stepped in). I've heard it's made some improvements since launch but I never fired it up again to check and see.

And then there's Destiny, which I played the most out of. I got it at launch and got hooked, even when there wasn't much content and the only path to maxing your character was to get lucky at the raid. It did improve over time, and by the last update it became a pretty good package overall. If you can find it on sale, it's not a bad deal to pick up, even though the PVP got a bit fucked due to the last couple of patches.

You'll even find a decent amount of people to play with because Destiny 2 shat the bed so hard. I don't know how they managed to fuck it up so badly, but they sure did. I could forgive launching with a subpar amount of content, but they made fundamental changes to the gameplay that pretty much ruined everyone's experience. Not only did the game not feel right, but there was no real reward system to keep you going, no loot chase to make you say "okay, one more round." They've been patching in various overhauls, but I don't think that the game will recover unless they address the core issues with the gameplay (namely the weapon and ability systems).

To answer your question, I have absolutely no idea why nobody can seem to get it right. It's a subgenre I want to see succeed but everything always gets fucked in the end somehow.

Plebiest of the plebs OP

Attached: di2.jpg (861x328, 183.41K)

If done right it could be pretty fun but don't hold your breath as most FPS devs are utter hacks at level design.

Attached: no expections for you.PNG (622x432, 268.92K)

Diablo clones are impossible not to be shit. First person or not.
The fundamental design of the game is flawed. I played Path of Exile for 5 hours, spread over 3 characters and didn't have a second of fun. Same with Grim Dawn, where I refunded after 1.5 hours, and the same with Torchlight except that was so unbearable that I didn't even last half an hour.
When you make an RPG without any roleplaying, then all you have are stats, your characters appearance, and boring moba-style combat. Cool-looking armour, high damage-numbers and pretty particle effects don't mean shit if there's nothing to the game. Even if you have that, the you can at least make an effort to create meaningful abilities, except everything always boils down to "do more damage", "do damage across a wider area", and "do more damage across a wider area" and that's only the combat. When you can't even do anything more than "healing flasks/mana heal more", "healing/mana flasks regenerate faster", and "healing/mana flasks have more heals", you know that nobody at your studio deserves their job.

Attached: deus (47).jpg (1080x1391, 112.87K)

Are there any mods than can make it good? I still have the discs somewhere.

I fucking hate diablo clone lootshits.
Worst part of Nioh was trying to get an item with actually useful stats because of its lootshit system. At least with monster hunter gear is actually static and all you need to do is hunt the monsters to get the items you want to make it but then they introduced talismans.

Attached: eb462efdef074abe4b77e3f6804f6f34fdf8aae8468dce68479c4aec58036e89.jpg (631x612, 62.11K)

What do you consider to be good FPS level design?

Attached: FEAR_DVD_box_art.jpg (256x361, 74.51K)

Attached: Warframe.webm (1280x720, 116.85K)

...

Return to your home
>>>/cuckchan/

Attached: 1387211802008.jpg (340x460, 49.02K)

The big problem of "shoot n loot" is the same thing that plagues a most action RPG games - it tries to mix two very different levels of abstraction together. On the one hand, you have the rather low-abstraction shooter mechanics where the player pretty much directly controls the character actions. On the other hand, you're trying to bolt on a set of mechanics of higher abstraction levels - numeric skills and stats, wildly scaling damage and hit points, etc. Those work in games where you don't have less direct control of your character, where you only point where to move and what to target.

but warframe is also shit.

That's not an irreconcilable design flaw, that's just lack of ambition, lack of budget, or lack of imagination.

Talking about matter of the question. You are just asking too much. One can do only so much to expand action game single player/coop (that is not really coop) gameplay . In the essence its purposeless run in the hamster's wheel. You played one loot game you played them all, you would never get same high with next if you played one.

Is finally imo fixed. Netcode is still shit and there's not enough players. The Division 2 is announced to be showing up at E3. Let just hope Massive learned their lesson and the Division 2 doesn't just set them back to square one.

Attached: you need to go back.png (294x367, 149.38K)

(checked)

Attached: 1424495652487.jpg (500x295, 22.5K)

That's an apt description of life itself, user.

Attached: vc_alicia_joint.jpg (255x215, 11.18K)

If you are not married to the fps part i recommend you 7.62 high calibre/hard life the later one is an updated version of the former (more weapons, more vehicles, more mercenaries, more areas, etc) but i haven't played much of it yet so give both a try as they have very different feel, specially early game.

:^)

Attached: Csgo-de-dust.png (1920x1080, 2.34M)

It really wasn't. While the randomly generated guns sounded good on paper in reality it was just OVER A MILLION GUNS that were mostely very similar to each other with only minor differences or bigger numbers. Not to mention the bullet sponge enemies in the end game that basically required some form of bullet regen to kill.

Borderlands would probably be pretty fun if, instead of purely random weapons you had random weapon parts. You'd never get exactly what you wanted, but you could have a base weapon of pistol/sniper/rocket that leveled up with you so you don't get cucked out of the weapons your good with, but have RNG attachments that modify the function of the base gun. Magazines, compensators, scopes and stocks would be attachments that drop to improve your gun, so you never get stuck with being unable to use a sniper rifle on your sniper rifle character for 5 hours because a decent one hasn't dropped in forever.

shit man i love the first borderlands game and i hate they they fucked it up in the second game and forward
instead of keeping what was good they added bunch of shitty comedy, made every monster a bulletsponge and somehow fucked the way guns felt in the first one (how do you get from one of best revolver feel to slow moving bullets you can see them fly towards target?)

Attached: why for what purpose 2.jpg (201x247, 15.37K)

also i was expecting they will make the leveling more meaningfull instead of adding 1-10% to a statistic or add more abilites but fuck no
you can now have "badass leves" so instead of adding 1-10% you can add 0.1-1%
wooo

It cuts grind time too much, players would obtain their "perfect gun" nearly instantly what undermines idea of loot shooters itself.

Idea was also good ingame. It meant that every chest could contain your dream gun your actually want. Going throw piles of trash to find a diamond, aligns with a aesthetics of thrash planet of Pandora. Also it means that top guns are born natural way, not even developers could say what guns would be best without extensive playtest. Opposite to forced "goodness" and predefined grind of specific mandatory gun in a single place.

Do people unironically think de_dust was good? Its far too bottlenecked.

I want to say maybe adding some form of gun "maintenance" gameplay mechanic would be a way to fix that, where you feel other weapons into your current one (an act that would enhance the weapon while also slightly changing its appearance based on weapon fed), but that sounds too much like mobile/gacha shit. Failing to feel it leads to damage reduction and other negatives.

Shadow Warrior 2 did exactly that and it wasn't any fun at all because you'd end up with a crapton of junk loot you'd have to filter through and getting a bunch of trinkets and parts isn't as satisfying as finding an entirely new weapon

It's just a poorly made game overall, it would need to be remade from scratch.

Honestly, it would've been better if they just let you make your own guns instead of relying on random chance

Can you explain what exactly happened? I only know Kyle discontinued it, but I don't know anything about the events surrounding it.

Back before the game's release, I heard rumor that some form of guncrafting was originally part of the game and it was cut due to some lack of power on the current gen consoles at the time.

Haven't played it, can you elaborate? I want to know more about good level design.

Why would you need more hardware power to make gun customization a thing? I could understand it being tricky to make but I don't see how adding more horsepower fixes this.

Attached: huh.jpg (300x377, 24.73K)

Good question, sounds like an excuse.

With how guns are actually structured in game, they certainly had the back bones for such a system at least.

its part AI and part level design that makes FEAR great, the levels are designed in such a way that the AI can attack you from many different angles whenever it can. Likewise the AI is somewhat scripted to try and flank the player as much as possible.
One particular example I can think of is near the start of the game you're shooting some enemies a bit above you, nothing to hard but then they blow up a door to your left and start attacking from there, suddenly you have to consider not only the enemies in front of you but also to your side.

All of this however can also be used against the enemy by simply flanking them or try and kill them all before they have a chance to scatter and flank you. I highly recommend playing FEAR yourself not just because it has good level design but because its just a really fun shooter that looks good despite being 13 years old.
Vid related explains the game really well.

Attached: considering suicide 2.jpg (212x320, 20.01K)

don't remind me

do yourself a favor and play it
then play Extraction Point
then replay those two every couple of years to keep up your standards
I actually played it a couple of days ago to calm down and even though I was rusty as shit, it was downright therapeutic
stream.me/archive/gerpkin/fear-variety-hour/1YMNJ1zn2x

Attached: 4dfaf6b663deffb339ffa151d366f32ec4136b2e8f515b8f245819e7bf700be9.jpg (1080x985, 175.9K)

somebody post moxxi's tits for crying out loud.

kk.

Attached: mad moxxi.png (914x1360, 1.18M)

Development hell?! What are you talking about? The game has been out for 3 years now, there's even a sequel coming out next year.

Isn't that the price to pay for a "looter/shooter"? I mean I wish The Division had the Ghost Recon gameplay (tacticool, one shot to the head = dead) but I don't know how the loot system could work with that gameplay.

Attached: righteous fury.jpg (636x960, 59.25K)

What do either of these statements have to do with the game having gone through development hell? A game doesn't have to be unreleased to go through development hell.

At least the game that is marketed as a sequel to F.E.A.R. had a lewd, rapey Alma.

I remember being so disappointed at this. I still remember the dev waaaaay back in the world debut article in Game Informer talking about machine guns that fire micromissiles instead of bullets and guns that made enemies explode if you aimed at them for a certain amount of time and all kinds of other wacky and unbalanced shit that was supposedly "random" and what we got was guns that were boring as shit with a few unique pieces thrown in to make it seem like that wasn't the case.

Fucking disgusting

I can tell you from firsthand experience that a 30 second cutscene of a corpse humping your character is not worth going through that oversaturated garbage of a game

Isn't she a guy?

Attached: Traps are gay.webm (1280x720, 2.01M)

Don't remember that ever being mentioned. She supposed to be quite old, being the mother of Skeeter and that fat bitch from 2, but that's the only weird thing I know about her.

She's not a guy. She's just a massive slut that everyone's fucked. Mordecai and Jack being the notable ones. Otherwise it's just what already said.

Attached: moxxi.jpg (600x900, 122.71K)

F.E.A.R. 2 and the first one's expansions are all serviceable. I never touched that edgy shit that was F3AR tho.

Attached: This is horseshit F.E.A.R..gif (500x281, 2.98M)

user, there was only one expansion made for original F.E.A.R.

Is that the fat fuck responsible of killing John Candy?

The Division
How do people even like this game?

Attached: 68DA5AC5-E0E3-46E7-8F30-526330A8F280.jpeg (640x932, 87.21K)

They don't, mostly.

Is there a way to mod Borderlands 2 to have less shit loot scaling/odds, and to have obtaining legendaries/uniques work how it diid iin the first game?

Because what I played of BL2 seemed much improved over 1, writing asde, but the loot system and how getting legendaries was basically exclusive to farming bosses, and you couldn't farm bosses to get max level uniques even after doing the sidequests completely turned me off the game so I never finished it.

Two years user.

Loot chests in random places within levels. You could design it in such a way that the direction enemies spawn in from directs you towards the chests. Then rather than having a bullet sponge boss at the end of the level you could have interestingly designed encounters with multiple large groups of enemies which require more tactical thinking than "look at guy hold left click until hp reaches zero"

You'd know all about that wouldn't you, Jamal?

Return from whence you came.

Attached: ta.jpg (640x480, 73.59K)

That's Ignatius J. Riley.

But then people would complain, saying that it's a "corridor game like Fallout New Vegas" and not open world.
And yes, I know that F:NV is open world, but I am sure you have heard the some of the complaints.

People say this?

None of them are good. Hellgate: London's first person view was only for a few classes and even then, the game was a buggy, boring mess.
Fucking awful. Daily reminder that this is where the A:CM money went to.

I think it went to make Bordermeme 2.

It was BL2 that got the A:CM money.

Even though she's supposed to be hot and milfy Moxxi always seems so haggard to me.

That's because she is.

What sequels?
All we got was a shitty console spinoff.

bump

Nigger, what the fuck? Stalker probably has the best ballistics of any FPS ever.
Every single time a FPS that isn't stalker introduces bullet physics it's some garbage with more speed and drop than a crossbow, and I say that from experience.

With less speed and more drop*

It's funny because they took all the things I didn't like in the first one and made a game out of it.
A shame because it could've been great.

I feel you man. So many games I have played where it could have been something great and yet it isn't for one reason or another.

Destiny 2 is an extemely anti-white game. They used the old SJW bait and switch ploy of putting a white man on the cover,
Heres the thing there are literally no white men in the game. Once you see it its appalling especially considering the literal hamburger helper v2 writer that raped the games script with reddit tier marvel writing.

The focus on loot and grinding is what ruined Diablo.

Yeah. The last Iron lord is a nigger, Ikora and Zavala are both niggers, the lady who leads the "resistance"(?) in 2 is a nigger… Fucking hell, Destiny is just bad.

so what do you think made it good?

The loot and grinding.

bump.

If you played memelands 2 near its release, they upped the legendary drop rate several times, and now it's supposedly a 1 in 10 chance for bosses. Also, github.com/BLCM/BLCMods/tree/master/Borderlands 2 mods/Hemaxhu for your mod needs, but specifically for finding legendaries in chests github.com/BLCM/BLCMods/blob/master/Borderlands 2 mods/Hemaxhu/Chest Mods/Better White Chests.
Or you could play the pre sequel, it's made by Australians so it's not as fucked in the numbers as BL2 but still more fucked than the original, bu the TK Baha character is a space lesbian so there's that.

Attached: For not being made by Gearbox, this DLC was pretty good.jpg (786x1017, 301.69K)

tell me more about doomrpg/RLA, i hear it get mentioned in a lot of doom threads but don't know a goddamn thing about it

Well DoomRPG is a mod that gives you levels, stats, spells including auras, a turret that you should never touch or use, shields, special usable items, and a hub with missions, shop, and arena, and special bosses. RLA stands for RogueLike Arsenal, which means it's a mod that adds features from the Doom roguelike, such as classes, various armor and weapons in varying rarities, mods you can apply to your armor and weapons, and it also has an optional enemy replacement mod that adds in enemies from the roguelike. While doomRPG was abandoned quite a while back, there's still people making compatibility patches for the latest version of doomRLA. Combining the two creates a buggy mess that has alright documentation for the basic stuff and nothing past a certain point, a need to bind at least half your keyboard, and a way to scratch the looting itch without paying money to Blizzard or Diablo. It can also be played with other people. TL;DR, if you do want to play a lootan n' shootan without spending your hard earned cash on cancer, just make sure to follow these two tips.

Attached: Camp Sherwood.png (460x468, 17.84K)

Blizzard or Gearbox, I mean.

Character builds, item modifiers, skills, atmosphere. Whenever I play Diablo, it's hardcore and I stop playing the character once I finish the game.

speaking of the pre-sequel, it's funny how you can actually precisely pinpoint which lines were written by strayans and which were written by Anthony Burch
as soon as the characters start yelling nonsensical XD GEEKY NERDY RANDUMB TBBT type bullshit is when Anthony's soyage kicks in

Hellgate London as a gunslinger is the best one and faggot op did not even list it.

you're quite retarded tbh
*annoying-ass demon you mean
how is that a bad thing anyway

Nothing was hidden in anything. It's just a big levels. Only one who deceived you is yourself. Why would you want an open world in a shooter anyway. Those miles of hiking in far cry wont make you any healthier.
why there's so many burch fans anyway

I think its dead island:something. I needed to lvl up to use a broom as a weapon. Dropped that shit immediately.

Mothergunship looks promising. An actual attempt to make a randomized Diablo style shooter.

You can create your own gun using the same style of editor from the Gumming Ship in Kingdom Hearts.

- Hellgate London has a private server for it.
- Vanilla WoW private servers
- Diablo 3 (on console)
- The Division

I actually play(ed) The Division. It is very gear based with 3 sets being the end-all-be-all and a handful of guns being top tier. Some you can craft yourself. The problem is getting the drops is such a pain in the ass. You'll be grinding the same 3 missions (Lexington, Clear Sky, Hudson) during global events(happened every weekend this month – 3 year anniversary), the only time your chance of getting what you want is increased enough to clock the hours in. The PvP is mediocre but going rogue in the dark zone and killing faggots to take their shit is satisfying. The environment is a really good recreation of Manhattan with some buildings you can actually enter, but it is over-all a "look but don't touch" approach to the design. The aesthetic is good (only reason I played), but it leaves a lot to be desired. The game was shit/buggy when it was released but it underwent a R6Siege/BF4 recovery with updates. Bulletsponge mobs that are humans, but it used to be worse.

Bump

Attached: Lilith_The_Siren_by_Ganassa.jpg (1111x751 875.6 KB, 224.38K)