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What point is this even trying to make? That because this guy has aspirations, he's just like the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"?
redpanels is stupid
more news at 7
It's saying leftist agitators see themselves as temporarily embarrassed commissars, not factory drones who, sadly, will still have to do the shitty work that needs doing even after the glorious revolution.
Nah not in the first world you dummy. Automation will take care of that
That it's not a realistic aspiration and he's wasting his time on ideology?
Actually, this guy already explained it better than I did.
all those weird twitter faggots who only care about taste peacocking - i'd love to see full blown communism just to see what happens to them
This guy is to avant garde for me
I think they'd prefer to rather live under that than capitalism
You seen Redpanels debate with Sargon?
Both of them are stupid but Sargon raped him in this debate, it fun to watch
lel, I want full communism so I can clock in my 10 hour work week and then smoke weed the rest of the time.
Nah, just tankies.
It's a good BTFO, though. Too bad it will just get dismissed using genetic fallacy.
I don't know about you, but I'd be fine with being a normal worker.
Yes, central planner cucks think they will own the boot someday
Oh god, he's getting destroyed.
Not really. Being a central planner wasn't exactly the same thing as being an American banker or industrialist. You couldn't rack up 300 billion dollars in today's currency like Rockefeller did in his lifetime, or 75 billion like Gates today.
And even in that case there were few "chief" central planning positions as the name implies though there were a ton of people involved in the planning process.
Even under revisionism Soviet inequality was much lower then most Western countries. All this panel does is argue that since inequality existed in the Soviet Union we should disregard all attempts to move beyond capitalism and accept the nasty go-fast capitalism that we have.
It's just the right-wing playing on the Christian concept of hypocrisy as always. It's idealist to think you could do away with all forms of inequality right away, though I think we'll do it much faster then in the past thanks to technology and higher levels of development and proletarianization then the past.
This cartoon is so transparent that even a sucdem could see through it.
Like the 'christian concept' of not molesting children amirite?
I see it as playing on the inherent duality of politics. You don't go into politics just to change the process, you do so to change the outcome too. The two are separate, and that's a logical flaw in the comic, but let's not pretend that an assumption that someone advocating political change sees himself as a leader of that change is particularly far-fetched. Historical precedent shows enough examples to the contrary.
When you control the whole country, you… well, control the whole country.
And don't go "it's not the same when you don't have property rights" on me when property rights not being a requirement for access to what the society and civilization can offer is precisely what we need to convince the population of to sell them on communism.
There are a lot of people involved in any process, including capitalist ones. Meaningless.
It does no such thing, as evidenced by the fact that an anti-capitalist like me can approve of it.
Lmao is that the best you have? How do you explain the fact that most European countries didnt even have age of consent laws prior to 19th century campaigns against child prostitution? And that those laws that existed before then were generally between 7-12 age range and were hardly ever enforced? Or the rampant pedophilia in Christian churches of all types not to say that other religions are different?
But, hey I know that was just the typical cool snarky Holla Forums one liner you had to throw out there to save face.
You don't have to be a genius to see how limited hypocrisy as a concept and how it serves the bourgeoisie? Ha you say you want a better society without money but you used money today! Take that prole! You say you want a more equal society but you benefit from white muh privilege, ha socialism debunked! You say you'd like to not be exploited but you exploited someone this morning by not drinking fair trade coffee!
It's just so tiring, its the flipside of the whole "you're just jealous" argument people trot out to defend inequality and its honestly more effective as a way to mislead leftists cause of muh feels
Reminder that all capitalist states, businesses and corporations already use economic planning
the "free market" is an utter illusion
anarch-nihilist arguing for central planning
That second panel ruined the joke
gonna get assassinated
Only if central planners dont starve first becausenthey decided to mine carbon instead of growing coen
a good thing?
why must all thread devolve in argueing about pedos?
Well, I wasn't the one who brought it up.
Imagining yourself as a leader of the glorious revolution, holding speeches and commanding armies is a fun, kinda chunni fantasy of mine, but to be honest, I'd be fine with being a worker as well. It's not like that would prevent me from reading more stuff or thinking. I used to do farmwork and the muscle labour kind of clears your mind, you can think about all kinds of stuff while doing your work on auto pilot. Also a good time to listen to audiobooks or podcasts.
I dislike redpanels, but I can respect it in the sense that it's pleasant to look at and the people don't all look like racist caricatures.
Is that supposed to mean anything? In 5-10 years all your normie friends will be generically anti-capitalist/"socialist"-lite
But don't kid yourself, we'll never have social democracy again the elites in power neither want it, nor do they find themselves able to tolerate it. Worrying about whether Commissar Cleetus is going to be on the take is just so far from the reality in the West, I have to laugh sometimes. The people in the ruling class have killed millions of people and they will kill millions more in the most gruesome ways possible to maintain that power. Their so right-wing they think Berniebots are communists because they envy Swedish workers.
I think most of us will be lucky to survive that tbh so I'm sorry I don't appreciate propaganda intended to split workers away from our movement and into a reactionary one. The point of the comic is don't rebel against your capitalists masters because the new boss will be just as bad as the old boss.
So, you shouldn't make the argument that planning an economy is not the same because you don't have private property…because we have to convince people that the fruits of civilization can be enjoyed without private property. Therefore, you can live like John Rockefeller even if you don't own any part of the economy that you help to plan even though the point of a proletarian state will be to limit state salaries and to progressively reduce income inequality? All you could do is influence the direction of the plan and no one person will be in charge of that, it will be a society wide decision-making effort.
I've heard bourgeois journalists argue Stalin was the richest man in history because he was the leader of a nation where the state controlled most of the economy. Never mind that by all accounts he lived an extraordinarily sparse lifestyle and that he didnt personally plan the economy, or that he was leader of the party and not the state, he didnt hold the position of prime minister etc, etc. Even bourgeois historians like Getty admit reluctantly that Thatchter had more executive power then Stalin and that Stalin was really just an incredibly efficient administrator/parliamentarian, that he knew how to bring the ideas of the leadership together.
Really the bourgeois democratic critique of the USSR that it was too corrupt, not democratic enough/certain groups had power etc. is not worth considering. If anything they based themselves too much on the Western democratic model and the effects were fatal. But I fear no adequate solution has been found to that problem yet.
Does any FALCfag have actual blueprints of machines or energy calculus to show that getting rid of work is more than a star trek like dream?
They already are. (It's just my bubble, of course.) I hope in 5-10 years they will all be full-blown commies. Hopefully not tankies.
From where I sit, the point of the comic is any boss will be as bad as any other boss. We need to abolish bosses altogether.
Planning economy is not relevant to the point of the comic. Only position of power is.
Do you really think Thatcher had executive power to gulag all those people that Stalin did? Maybe she just refrained from using it out of the goodness of her heart?
I think the comic is silly because the reason we oppose bosses is not because they are authorities, but because they are exploitative. I don't see any issue with having bosses or authorities in society. Not everyone actually wants to do economic planning, they just want to ability to be involved if they want to.
I'd be happy to chill under socialism, doing relatively easy skilled labor because of automation. Enjoying social services and access to a lifetime of free educational opportunities and cultural enrichment. Going to workers council meetings when I felt like it, giving my input, but knowing shit is covered by the more ambitious socialist planners who are dedicating their lives to do that shit.
This is why pol fails.
Hey, so would I. Again, that's why I do not think it "BTFO"s socialism in itself. Just vanguardists, tankies and everyone else thinking workers need leaders to tell them what's good for them.
Socialism did take root in the US and was directly responsible for the policies of the New Deal which ushered in 50 years of unprecedented wealth, material comfort, and access to health care and education.
I wouldn't have a problem with working in a factory, even if it was a 40 hour week or more, if it meant I was doing something useful for people instead of just making a bunch of cunts I've never met a king's assload of money. Not having a cunt boss would be nice too.
Ya need vanguards matey, unless you can imagine a reasonable way to go about reaching a common goal. Also you need a state to establish prole dictatorship, the private property of the bougies aint gonna appropriate itself?
FDR was so close..damn if he lived another 10 years maybe. but in the long term he was a huge traitor, should have let it crash to hell. Prolonged capitalism in US and firmly established the empire
FDR never had any intention of implementing or letting anything like socialism be implemented. His entire program was just too undercut the actual socialists
FDR's plan was to save capitalism from itself, certainly not to allow anything even remotely close to socialism gaining any traction.
This. Heck, FDR wasn't even socdem: he was an ordoliberal. (The difference being that scodems want to reform capitalism to an ideal state, whereas Ordoliberals want economic utilitarianism combined with efficiency).
I wish this guy was a furfag. We need more retarded shite-wing furshit since Failor disappeared up his own asshole on Patreon.
you're a retard
L-look, being the chairman would be cool and everything and I might occasionally fantasise about leading mankind into a new golden age but that doesn't mean I really expect that to happen or anything…
Robots will seize the means of production?
You know how expensive that shit is?
Oh yeah the workes seize the means of production.
To fund the automated factory we need a hundred thousand workers who own the means of production.
Once it's done, only a fraction of workers are needed, transferring ownership to only a few.
In other words, workers become temporary bank loans now?
Oh yeah we need you to fund and build this, but you're not gonna be a worker once it's done, this is the magic of applying 1890s stuff where they had simple cobblers to 2017 where they have shit like the large hadron collider.
You can't even run sandwich shops under a communist model.
I see myself more as a temporarily embarrassed Liaison for the People's Office of the Vice Drug Commissar to the Greater Seattle All-Healthcare Soviet, to be quite frank
What can I say, other than "duh"?
Yeah, and George Washington would totally have abolished slavery in his third term
Every serious poster here thinks they're going to be part of the new intellectual class under communism.
Bitch I just want to be doing what i am already doing but without exploitation
Err more of Voltaire's perfect being the enemy of good than anything else
Except I'm already doing well enough under capitalism so this explanation is extra retarded
This. It was exactly the same when von Bismarck created social security in Germany.
Just to give some breadcrumbs and shut up the socialists.
I mean even just coming to our set of conclusions is a pretty huge endorsement of someone's theoretical abilities and drive to understand the world, especially when essentially all opposition is controlled opposition and when with few exceptions you cannot for the life of you find a socialist perspective in the mainstream, or at all unless you painstakingly seek it out and evaluate it. Once you get over the socdem hill, you're really among a certain caliber of people.
Seems like there are so few actual communists that every one could be a party cadre if they wanted
What we don't need is some reified brahmin caste above and beyond society and divorced from social practice, though
Did you know you can actually be an economic planner under capitalism? They're called "actuaries."
This makes a very, very small good point. Lefties tend to think that they'll have some important position after the revolution.
Historically this tends to be true, though. So many leaders of Soviet Russia and Red China were random revolutionaries who were appointed to something small.
I'm pretty sure 90% of commies imagine communism as basically the same as the world today except without all the shitty parts of their job and maybe if they're particularly pissed off they also got to shoot their boss and/or landlord.
I don't care if I work in a factory, it sounds satisfying.
why is this bumplocked
mod took it seriously
I'm the bar graph in the background. Showing socialism bettering the lot of the common worker at an unprecedented rate