How do we fight idpol?

Is it possible to turn the democratic party into a communist party by removing idpol from it?

what did you mean by this
who are you quoting
some of you are nice, dont go to /jp/ tomorrow

A dedicated group of advanced researchy of mememancy.

i see a lot about fighting black and brown and dumb nazi idpol but what about the idpol that serves as a core part of voting republican?

You mean "reverse racism" shit?

yea plus american exceptionalism muh culture bullshit, all urban blacks are on welfare and gangbang, all mexicans are welfare leeching illegals. That kind of shit.

use people like milo on the right to piss of liberals

t. mad pedo

Holla Forums is afraid to talk about that

trips. congrats. no doubt. i think a lot of leftypol still has a high amount of pol and angry suburban kid residual beliefs they haven't let go yet. but i can't really take as seriously some posters anti-idpol bluthering when all they focus on is liberals, nazis, and tumblr users. the average white republican or trump voter s idpolled to hell

This is not specific to republicans. More of a general American liberalism thing that manifests in different ways in both parties.

That's not idpol, those are just racist stereotypes. Real republican idpol are the evangelicals.

Ask why so many urban blacks oare on welfare and gangbang. Chances are, if you can get them in a fairly respectful conversation, they won`t be able to come up with a reason.

You're a fat cunt lad

Every time someone calls you a "class reductionist," ask them if having a special snowflake black Muslim Jewish genderqueer differently-abled neuroatypical otherkin transitioning employer would suddenly give workers control of the means of production.

I doubt it. The furthest they ever got was socdem shit. But hey, Trump hijacked the Republican party, so I guess anything is possible.

What about it? It's just the opposite side of the same coin, and leftists have always opposed that, too.
But that shit has been discredited in the mainstream and by the younger generation. It's just that, outside of autistic imageboards, most of the idpol these days comes from SJWs.

Addendum to the comment about SJWs: Our problem is also more specifically with them because so many of them either: 1) think we're OK with their idpol, or 2) want to "convert" us to their idpol, and think it's more important than class struggle.
Basically, SJWs are trying to subvert us, while typically, traditionally racist types either don't know about us or already hate us.

Just call them a radical liberal m8, something that will actually cut to the bone.

Are you guys nuts? Idpol will keep our cadres free from trots and liberals, it's a godsend. What does it matter if they're mean to us online and call us brocialists?

They will kill you the moment you try to take over the first workplace that happens to be owned by a black guy or a woman.
Also, their views aren't based on principles, they're intellectually dishonest, and they have made a science out of infiltrating and subverting radical organizations. You are retarded.

You sound like someone who has written many posts about games journalism.

You sound like someone who believed the lie that GG was a hate group.

Did you take a wrong turn at plebbit or something? Please read Pic related before you open your fly-trap again.

This is already fully incorporated into the liberal side of idpol though. X is a social construct.

You can't beat idpol, just hammer on focusing on material conditions and class.

Yes you can. Just tell them to look at the reals. You can't "identify as" owning the means of production.
I'm not saying this will stop idpol types from being retarded, but it does discredit them in the eyes of everyone else, which is just as good.

Eh, if it's idpol by a capitalist than you should try to show them how even in a capitalist system people will still be exploited and a black, lesbian, trans-women porky would still be a porky.

TBH I don't care for idpol if it's done by a genuine leftist. There are prejudices in a capitalist system so so long as they know to change the system at the root that causes it then hey.

Idpol also tried it.

Turns out many of us browse both. Nihilism vs having an ideology to strive for. That's the difference between Holla Forums and Holla Forums and frankly I always hoped we'd become one organism from the very beginning.

☭ M A K E P R O P A G A N D A ☭

Fuck propaganda.
Make properly sourced memes and stats.
The "blind propaganda" days are at an end. It's easily seen through, that's why the left is losing.

You need accuracy.
Why is the left so afraid of accuracy?

Another thing. Why is it not possible to have two concurrent ideals in separate states?
Why can we not have concurrent cultures?

When did we become so black and white orientated?

You could have at least put some effort in.

Because accuracy and properly source to memes paradoxically not very effective. This is an ideological fight and you using numbers and stats. They have their place in a back and forth conversation but that's not what this is. Hearts and minds, motherfucker.

They are, you literally lost the fucking election.
God dammit, the fact you deny this is WHY the left lost the election.
In fact both the left and the right are losing to something far more sinister.

You're fucking wrong and that's why the left isn't going anywhere.
Logos is part of the art of persuasion. Facts and sourced articles to direct sources of information is your ally to your logos.
The problem right now is that you rely too much on the MSM for being a source for the left. The left needs to break new ground and ditch this fucking MSM bullcrap ideology. It needs to go further and think beyond the books too, it needs innovation.
It's going in circles around communism and stirner and that's it's problem right now.

Think: "If I could architect what all people wanted - how could I do it?"
Stop thinking "what is the best ideology". That's how fucking Holla Forums thinks. Think differentially.

Oh, it's not "we" anymore, now it's back to "you." Interesting.
Deny what? I'm calling you COINTELPRO, not addressing your ostensible point.

lol

This tbh. Here are some images I saved from a Holla Forums propaganda thread. Notice anything?

I w was a former Pollock and this is the sort of thing in conjunction with the poorly sourced infographcs were enough to convince me to take the red pill

Autism.

You can't escape ideology. It's the spontaneous way in which we all relate to the world and how we perceive it's meaning.

You should probably explain to him what ideology actually is, because from his post, it's clear he doesn't understand it in the Marxist sense.

I don't know where you came from, but you need to lurk more.

There are known knowns, known unknowns, unknown unknowns. All simple enough, but then there are the unknown knowns. Things we don't know that we know.

T H I S I S I D E O L O G Y

This is the kind of shit that convinces people. Facts are irrelevant

It's confusing for me cause I browse both..

I bet you deny soros intervened with the polling booths. Mate Hillary was fucking crooked and there was a decent amount of evidence to suggest that soros was controlling the booths.
If that was the case then Trump may have actually won a landslide.
Who fucking knows anymore, all media seems to be reporting bullshit nowadays.

But that's also my point. Holla Forums used the podesta emails to get that result.
Why doesn't Holla Forums do the same?

You think Holla Forums supported Hillary? kek to you, my friend.

Jimmy Dore and Jordan Carton do nothing but talk about the emails and they are lefties. /Our guys/ if you will. They also mix in ideological arguments.

What you need is intellectual thuggery.

Thought and discussion-terminating bludgeon words that attack people on an animal level are the firepower that wins online battles.

Idpol has "sexist", "bigot", "misogynist."
Alt-right has "cuck," "cunt," "illegal alien"
Nazis have that + "nigger" and every other racial slur

Those words are like hammer blows to the mind of the recipient and can't be guarded against with any higher mental function.

Socialists and right-libertarians are at a severe disadvantage currently because they don't have (or won't use) any thought-terminating weapons. You need one word kicks to the groin until the enemy capitulates.

That's fucking sinister that he twisted the meme like that to manipulate the points he was trying to get across.

Well that's why there are still fags here pushing isms. Political correctness is pushed heavily by mainstream media, even after Trump got elected. It never corrected itself to align more with Trump.

Ideology is culture, got it :^)

Then why did it sound like you were criticising the election result. Only Holla Forums can criticise that it should have been larger if not for rigging.

You need to complain that Clinton fucked up the left and the left needs newer thinking because the position it sits in is just as bad as the right.

You're just fucking cultures to me.
That's all I'm seeing with this divide in ideology.

Why can't we have more than one culture or ideology under one banner? Isn't that what a republic is meant to be?

(^: Culture is I D E O L O G Y

Let me guess… the jew!
Fuck off Holla Forums, the left was never on the election.

MSM never talks about class struggle, what the fuck are you talking about. MSM has always lied to about the left and the very fact that you think the MSM represents the left is a proof that you fell for it's tricks.

It's not. "Private property" means something else to socialists. It's possible for words to have different meanings in different contexts. You should really go back to Holla Forums, it's painfully obvious that you're new.

Ideology, in the German philosophical sense, is an imaginary relationship to a material reality.
When your boss tries to chum it up as though he doesn't have power over you, that's ideology.
When a parent tells their child, "This hurts me more than it hurts you," before spanking them, that's ideology.
When, in a horror movie, the only teenager left alive at the end is the pure virgin girl, that's ideology.

It's not a planned, deliberate deception–no, it's far more insidious than that. Ideology is spontaneous, it's part of the typical, mundane way that we relate to our social world, it's part of our daydreams and fantasies and supposedly self-directed thoughts–part of us. That's why identifying it and critiquing it is a never-ending process that requires continuous effort.

This seems to be the best course of action.

Are americans really this retarded that they think Hillary is left? kek
fuckin barbarians….you have no idea what left is.

He would if he'd just lurk more, but apparently it was very important that he spew his newfaggotry all over the thread.

Yeah it's really sinister that specializes terminology differs in meaning from the vernacular.

This guy knows what's up.

Probably dig it out of education for a start.
media.8ch.net/file_store/ebc86926be1191f5f9d2cd885d24de2f80dde4e3805cb789ddf4a12b3e1464a3.pdf

the right are already killing it

Instead of being a snarky autist i'll say politely that you really need to lurk more if you think Holla Forums has any sort of allegiance to Hillary or any American neoliberal politician.

Read the FAQ too.

I mean how not seeing race is racism according to some on the left today

Well, what's the issue idpolers actually have? It is that people with their identity get discriminated. By whom?
By porky and the state!
Feminists complain that they don't get the same wages as men.
Blacks that they get discriminated by police.
LGBT's that the state doesn't grant them the same right to marry etc.
So the main discriminator in most of these circumstances is porky and the state. If you get rid of porky and the state, then there is also no discriminator anymore and the issues of idpolers are solved.
The problems of white nationalists are also solved, because they can simply segregate into their own white only communities
The problem with apartheid was not that whites and blacks lived in seperated communities, but rather that blacks were forced to live in shitty communities, whereas whites got the state sponsored muh privileged communities and special rights from the state that blacks didn't have.
But who would have a problem with self-chosen segregation?
The liberal democratic state wants to eliminate difference between ethnich identities, because it has the monopolity of the rights giver and it works on the ideology that everyone needs to have equal rights and capitalism works on the ideology of meritocracy, i.e. that ideally everyone should have the same opportunity to rise in the economic hierarchy. Status in the economic hierarchy correlates with social status. In this system people's self-worth is determined by their rank in the economic hierarchy. And thus if there is an ethnic group that as a whole occupies the lower ranks of the economic hierarchy, then that group also occupies the lower ranks of the social hierarchy which is unacceptable for the ideology of liberalism and the group itself.

No. You've fallen into their trap. What they really want is to use past discrimination and crimes as a tool to assign collective guilt to people who aren't responsible for those past actions. That way they can use that guilt as a cudgel to gain power within organizations. This is literally the only thing they ever do.

TOP FUCKING KEK
No, capitalism works on the idea that if you own property, you own everything, and if you don't, you can get fucked.

capitalism coupled with liberal democracy does.

No, it doesn't. The richest people in the world live in capitalist liberal republics, and the only reason they're as rich as they are is that they own the means of production.
Under capitalism, the most that merit does for you is giving you some leverage in negotiating your wage.

But the only reason idpol works, is because the state operates on the ideology of liberalism.
Otherwise no one would give a shit about idpols protesting for equal rights to begin with.

Again, you're making the common mistake of thinking that SJWs are ideological. They aren't. There's a reason why they regularly say things like, "Equality before the law isn't enough." They don't have a beef with the state–hell, nearly all of them were Clinton-voting fucks, and it wasn't because they don't know about socialism.
No, their goal, the entire purpose behind what they do, is to control people and groups, putting themselves and their friends in power. That's also why idpol operates on "feels > reals"–because it allows them to justify anything they do, since there are no bedrock principles from which they draw conclusions, only a never-ending well of righteous indignation that they can use to shame gullible, ignorant, or susceptible people into giving them what they want.

In the ideal utopian liberal democratic state it would. Of course progressives say that we haven't achieved the ideal liberal democracy yet, because not everyone has exactly the same opportunities yet.
But the goal of progressives is equal opportunity under a capitalist system. That's where we are "progressing" towards according to progressives.
Abolishing inheritance so that everyone starts with the same start capital in the race might be a step towards that direction.

My point is that equality of opportunity is impossible under capitalism. Regardless of the stated views of liberal capitalists, capitalism simply does elevate those who own property and immiserate those who don't. That is, in a stark materialistic way, its function. The opinions of the people involved in the system are irrelevant.

Maybe. But if you abolish capitalism, then what would "opportunity" refer to anymore?
Opportunity for what? Under capitalism by "opportunity" is meant the opportunity to acquire capital.

Depends on the model of socialism implemented. If it's market socialism (which I advocate), you have the same opportunity as anyone else to earn money based on your contribution to society; if your labor is valuable, your cooperative flourishes, and you reap the rewards–not because of what you own, but because of what you do.
If it's traditional, planned communism…I don't know, I'm not a communist, you should ask them. Communism does have equality of outcome, though, so maybe that preempts equality of opportunity.

Maybe. I see a lot of people use "opportunity" to mean the "if you work hard, you can be just as rich as any capitalist :^)" meme that has been debunked a thousand times, so I assumed that was what you meant.
Even in capital accumulation, it's not an even playing field, since capital accumulation creates a feedback loop, whereby those with the most of it are the best poised to increase their capital the most.

Convince idpolsters that their ideas are wrong.

...

Identities are usually not feels, but derived from the social / biological function or position of the individual. But for the sake of arguement, let's suppose that you manage to convince a group of people to give up their identity. Thanks to half a century of liberal subvertion, this is almost the case for white people. Even if being white was just a "feel" or just the "skin color" and not an umbrella term for belonging to a distinct cultural and biological group, getting rid of this identity would render white people defenceless against groups that are unwilling to do the same, and that's what currently happening, although there are still some pockets of resistance who cling to their identity and give it the due respect.

TLDR unless you can somehow magically convince everyone at the exact same time to give up their identity, the first group to let it go will be destroyed by those who won't. And even if you, wielding the power of a God, somehow eradicate identities at once, new ones will start to form immediately, because that's just how humans work.