Climate Change

General climate change thread.

Possible points of discussion:

- the economic, social, and political aspects of reversing climate change
- how relevant climate change will be in the revolution
- creating clean energy in a post-revolution world
- how climate change exacerbates pre-existing problems, such as food insecurity
- future climate change-caused migration crises
- the effects of climate change in building a post-scarcity world
- are reformist approaches okay when dealing with something as dire as climate change?
- oil as the foundation of the modern-day global economy
- and more!

Climate change has been on my mind lately as one of the coldest months of the year for my area is consistently seeing temps in the 70's the past couple weeks. I'd love to see what others think.

Other urls found in this thread:

Everybody can see the results of reformism. None. check out rio+20 . Probably won't be, because oil and coal are the foundation of economy. Against tobacco industry, we required ~50 years and tobacco isn't a hard challenge compared to fossil fuels.


Climate change is not about local tempreatures. Actually, in some places, AVERAGE temperature can decrease. Also, climate change creates more chaotic weather: colder snowstorms, heavier rains, greater wind gusts, more tropical cyclones, etc…

Yeah, it snowed this year in my country and there wasn't any snow several years ago. So what? We also had the highest temperatures in the past two weeks ever measured here at this time of the year.

It's all about statistics. The tendencies are, that on average, the globe is warming. Most of the warming happens on the poles and continents.

Read the wikipedia and rationalwiki articles about the topic. Also check out the denial of climate change on both sites. Since it's science, both places cover it carefully and thoroughly.

Also: we, humans cause this. All other explanations, hypotheses were refuted. There were about 10 of them, none showed significant correlation with temperature in the past years.

t. meteorology student

we're all pretty much fucked

I-is Bookchin our only redemption?

Someone posted a video about Miami Beach being swallowed up by the sea the last time we talked about the weather. Shit is fucked, but no one can do anything about it in my state because the legislature made basing policy on climate science illegal.

It's too late to mitigate the damage already done (which is enough to completely change the weather), but certainly it could help in some ways.

Whoa, that's tough. In my country, it just gets laughed at. All national parks are money laundries, no environmental policies. Also, there is a nauseating law which taxes solar panels so they can say "nuclear energy is cheaper". Not that I am agains nuclear power generally, but my country has 40% of the electricity produced from it already. This means high dependence on uranium fuel. Also, I see more potential in solar and wind energy. Which country are you from?

Sometimes i hate this fucking board.

Ethical consumerism will stop Global Warming.

Pick one. Just like with ethical/capitalism. It's capitalism pretending to be better than it actually is. Raising awareness is good, but not enough.

You guys should try the Steam game "Fate of the World". Really got me thinking.

this has to be a joke, right?

Together with the shitposting flag, yeah. You can see the ideology itself without the anti-ideology goggles.

Does anyone know of a short article that explains the necessity of overthrowing capitalism in order to meaningfully address climate change? We need to get the liberal lifestylist environmentalists on board.

Are you French, user?

Nope, they have more nuclear power (realtive to the whole energy budget). I reporting in from the land of the Hungry people.

I don't know about any articles, but the film "End: Civ" was a real eye opener for me. It talks about how the only way to save the world would be for civilization to be destroyed, which is a little too far down the AnPrim route for my liking, but it makes a lot of good points.


I'm not one bit joking, the only big annoyance is Russia.

Sounds like pure ideology.
>the sheeple are powerless in the hands of the Illuminati Jewish Cabal The Bourgeoisie, their actions and choices have no effect on the world around them.
Is JUST as deluded as your average new age "fix it in your head" wackos.

called it.

forgot pic

My guess is some rogue chinese Politician or Businessman is going to make headlines as a "diplomat" between mainland China and Western environmentalists, possibly giving a "greenbadge" to certain manufacturies, and build a huge business empire in the process. I give it 4 years maximum until the Chinese image as a planet-wrecker is reversed.

Your arguments are OK, but consider these:
India and China. India is just starting to use coal, the US is going back to fracking and coal, China will not stop it for a time (see far below). Count in the oil that can be more easily extracted from Siberia and the methane hydrates in the ice in the arctic. The arctic ice is pretty much fucked by now, it just needs more time.
Also: aeroplanes, cars use fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a no-go for street traffic and planes. Maybe electricity can do some reform, but all of this needs A LOT OF regulation. The turn to right-wing politics doesn't do much for the case.

What I'm arguing for is that you need planned economy to revert the course of the engine. The paris agreement contains no obligations, confirming that the burgers don't want to change the situation.

Thanks for the infographic. China and 4 years? It would be a good bet because I think they need more than 10 years, but there is a clear political concern about the climate issue there.

Yes, good worker, waste your time and effort on mythical blue sky solutions. Class struggle isn't important, what really matters is your Carbon Footprint (tm)!


Ask yourself this, if the climate change doctrine is so revolutionary, why is it being incessantly pushed by liberal governments and billionaires like Soros?

It's not doctrine but science.


Nice false equivalence, faggot.

Funny that, over half of scientists disagree with the main points, and most of the scientists that follow it do so blindly, not relying on evidence but by merely accusing their opponents of being "crazy" or "denying evidence", when it is they that are denying evidence. The only reason this is being pushed is because the elite want to reduce the population of potential proles, and the best way to go about it is through convincing them to become celibate to "save the environment".

If you want to pursue pointless blue sky politics, then do it on your own, dont force it as part of national policy, especially in a socialist government. All you're going to do is make a fool out of yourself.


You may mean the Oregon Peteition, which is also manufactroversy.

Also see:

Merchants of Doubt(the book or the film)

Citation needed

Hoax by the chinese that paid off 99,9% of scientists to make american manufacturing unprofitable
Isnt it obvious?

do you have any reliable sources to read up on the science behind climate change?

And also:

Climate science is a 5-year long university programme in my country. Libgen has some stuff and you can google the authors. Any person who is a university professor and is a climate scientist is credible enough.

Statistics, probability calculus, basic analysis, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, basic electromagnetism, dynamic meteorology, sinoptic meteorology, climatology, oceanography, basic geograhpy are all important topics.

He's shitposting you dolt.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Literally never seen this happen, in fact, 3rd world countries are exempt from most global climate agreements because the 1st world recognizes they need fossil to develop.
Population is shrinking because raising kids sucks.

The world is fucked
Just compare the snow levels in the last 10 years to 40 years ago
Its depressing and its only going to get worse

Stopping climate change is something that morally would justify Eco-Stalinism.

Well yeah, I called it an ancap trolling episode.

It's not an ancap though, it's a leftypol poster posing as one.

Considering this would mean executing most right wingers, I can get behind it.

Sounds like a good plan

Geoengineering and nuke power plants when?


Tenets of Stalinism:

Literally every single one of these points is going to be needed to deal with global warming this century. We'll need huge infrastructure spending to put us on clean energy, sustainable transport, insulated homes, and so on. Not to mention massive levees and water management projects to prevent important cities from getting swamped. We'll need a massive state-managed relocation program to get people out of danger areas and put up sea barriers, as well as to deal with millions of refugees. All of the oil company CEOs, all the conservative pundits, the anti-nuclear hippies, and so on will have to disappear. Food and water rationing will be required to prevent mass starvation, and new farmlands will have to be perpetually seized as the arable land region changes. We'll have to invade countries that refuse to move to sustainable energy and green living.

I'm not a tankie, but when I look at the reality of climate change… the droughts and floods, the famine and war it will cause… The only logical solution I can see is a brutal, authoritarian ecological dictatorship. I am for Eco-Stalinism.



Global warming is a hoax

Australian here, were fucking dying

Every single vehicle on the road and in the air could be electric and oil still would be going nowhere. It's just a very useful chemical. Deal with it.

Reducing civvy consumption is possible, though.

You mean like China's? I mean its a capitalist planned economy but its very much a planned economy.

Agreed that all actual solutions have come from governments willing to say "Here's the fucking plan now start building". But they are very capitalist govs (France, Sweden, Switzerland).

Of course the flipside is you get retarded governments building dysfunctional "wind+solar" grids that are in reality coal/gas grids.

We're fucked we will never save the earth without destroying civilization

You are right, it is very useful. That's why it's a shame to just burn it.

I don't think that is true

cars are perhaps a small proportion but our logistics networks as a whole,planes, trains , tankers ,trucks, make up about 50% of our oil use if I recall correctly. We aren't close to electric planes and electric ships which are huge parts of the global economy as well as the foundations of the tourism industry so I doubt they will be scrapped, cut back or even taxed heavily for fear of impacting such a large part of different countries economies

No need to burn it

Nuclear powered ships exist, which is pretty nice
Should be used outside of the military

the thing is though,while they could exist nobody right now sees an economic benifit to it so it wont happen. For the time being oil based fuels are cheaper that investing in Uranium reactors on ships. let alone the other concerns about civilians or terrorists getting hold of a nuclear power plant they could deliberately or accidentally meltdown, it's just not on the cards really

America, North Carolina.

Every day I feel the desire to live slip further and further away.

how is this in any way relevant to my post

I like eco-stalinism more that China's, but I don't like authoritarian governments. Decentralized planning. That way people may have some insight on the consequences of individual choices and don't feel so powerless against the capitalist economy.

Decentralized planning takes out the step of convincing the government that this is a huge issue. Corporations do their best to make thsi whole thing seem like a great argument, but it isn't. It's science and there is HUGE consensus among climate scientists about the issue.

I also had no will to live. Coming here to leftypol gave it back to me. The Bookchin shills got me into reading his works.