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If your job generates $100 in revenue per hour but I can get away with paying you $7 instead of $15, why wouldn't I?


Capitalists have been bitching about the minimum wage for centuries. Even Marx had to debunk that shit. "Oh, if we pay our workers 20c an hour we'll be bankrupt." "Woe, a 12 hour work day? Industry will be ruined!"

You're right. Let's get rid of wageslavery.

Maybe porky shouldnt keep so much surplus value

technically correct except that the houses close to the water are almost all empty

Or rather, shouldnt keep any surplus value

What the fuck does this shit even mean.

This is only if you're job was completely superfluous.

You know, the jobs that largely died off after the economic crisis.

reverse it. If you make an artificial maximum pay does it work ?

I'm okay with this.

Jobs that generated more than $15/hour are no longer allowed to pay $7/hour.
Jobs that generated less than $15/hour are replaced by robots.

And all the unemployed now have to be either bribed by government with welfare or they'll go Communist.

did this kid just not pay attention in school or something?

What jobs are those exactly? How could any business in the US ever pay bills with that low of income? Also what about jobs that don't generate revenue directly but by keeping the business running, like janitors?

the alt-right revealing itself as capitalist lackeys again

yes, but they won't

Abolish work!

Fascism seems to be the more popular option. Don't you know that all these jobs are only gone thanks to dem darn immigrants?

there is literally nothing wrong with corporate profits being so high, they're people too you know?


romney get out

Because somebody else will pay them $16/hr + benefits

You know when companies do something really fuck up things and lose the public's trust?

You know what they do to re earn the trust? REBRANDING that's the "alt-right" the "libertarians" the "ancaps" rebranding of an old theory.

What if that somebody does the same thing, paying $7/hr ?

This comic is an argument against capitalism more than it is an argument against the regulation of capitalism

Well, fuck, looks like socialism has been defeated. RedPanels does it again!

In Fantasyland maybe

Hello, reddit.

Fascism necessitates an outgroup. This is perhaps the dumbest point to counter in that post.

The comic is using a visualization of a common real estate analogy to illustrate a point. In the property business an underwater property is a asset that is larger liabilaty than what it is worth; property is speculatively bought as revenues and improvements accrued happen after the owner purchases it.
Simple terms: it is worth less then what I bought it at.

Fascism doesn't necessitate anything except counter-revolution. Singling out minorities for abuse is just a tactic that is available and is easy to use.

Nobody in the thread has been able to refute this, but you all seem to disagree with it. Why?

Just admit that it's accurate. Minimum wage just means people struggling to survive off low wages suddenly have no income at all.

Depending on the environment they might be forced to go on social security, live off savings while they scramble for a better job or become homeless.

Thinking that increasing the wage suddenly means everybody gets a decent wage is a fantasy land.

Personally I agree with the comic but for different reasons. The minimum wage is supposed to keep people above the poverty line, but as we can see in America, it doesn't do jack shit anymore. Raising the minimum wage will merely provide for a brief period of relief before the contradictions of capitalism bear their teeth again.

I disagree with what Redpanels seems to be implying, that the minimum wage should just be abolished, since lowering wages will in no way improve the situation either.

nice comic but actually we live in real-life-world and not your-comic-world.

you know minimum wage is not some leftist utopia but it actually exists and people were able to look at its effects irl, yes?
great, so shitpost on Holla Forums and mods ban anyone who didn't sage.


global warming drives down the housing prices near the coast for obvious reasons.

We don't agree with it because it assumes that workers get fairly compensated. Notice how it is talking about revenue and implies that it is the same as wages. A realistic illustration would be those houses representing wages, while the actual revenue is much higher on the hill and in no danger of being touched by the rising water – the illustration in the middle would make more sense then. In general though it's horrible because its overly simplified, inaccurate and made by redpanels.com


nice comic but actually we live in real-life-world and not your-comic-world.

you know minimum wage is not some leftist utopia but it actually exists and people were able to look at its effects irl, yes?
great, so shitpost on Holla Forums and mods ban anyone who didn't sage.

The thing is that destroying jobs by implementing a minimum wage will actually make the job market better.

There are SEVEN MILLION people working two or more jobs in America today.
That means there are at least seven million jobs being held off the job market because wages are TOO LOW. When you raise the minimum wage, lots of people will be able to quit their night or weekend shift, thereby freeing up more job openings. It's win/win.

With the debt I have I wouldn't be able to move out of my parents house unless I start making at least $25 an hour.

Going to need some proof on that.

Many places have implemented a higher minimum wage & are doing just fine. Seattle, for instance. You should be blaming capitalism instead, if you find any flaws in this system.

Recent study which shows prices at McDonalds, if living wage was implemented, would only have a minuscule increase of around 17 cents. Again though, small businesses are also fine in places where minimum wage is increased.

You are a fucking moron. To use your own "argument" against you - You can't into economics.


Get that corporate cock out of your mouth.

Strangely enough this is rather accurate; capital simply cannot abide by its own prior laws and conditions. To raise the minimum wage for labor that simply isn't socially competitive enough to provide profit is to simply kill capital within social democracy. This is why left-liberals, even and perhaps especially the well-meaning ones, simply could not help but lower minimum wage rates should they maintain alive the system they are wedded: capitalism. The only way this functions is if you make these same sectors more competitive through the minimum wage; improving the tacitness and efficiency of labor along with the minimum wage. The increase in minimum wage must be accompanied with a more disciplined labor; the only alternative is once again a proper post-capitalism. That, or barbarism (or the outright barbarism of capital and its contradictory tyrannical way of disciplining labor).

Rightism is a disease

And this really is the worst part: that the well-meaning social democrats like Bernie Sanders are definitely well-meaning, but that they still fulfill the role of kind slave owner, the worst kind of slave.

Also see Michael Heinrich on this subject in this thread:

I don't think this should be bumplocked.

Same. Volunteers are too quick to lock threads featuring a reactionary element, even if this reactionary element is being treated in civil discussion and produces something interesting.

Why are minimum wage jobs depicted as the tide but higher paid jobs depicted as homes on an incline, surely minimum wage jobs should also be analogous to homes on the incline.

Isn't spotting the odd one out or which of these not like the other a basic concept that toddlers are capable of?

this is just typical economically illiterate libertarian nonsense, in the history of the US there has basically been no correlation between minimum wage rising and unemployment, if the minimum wage starts cutting in to profit margins then people will just raise the price of the products/services

And even when those prices are raised, those near the bottom benefit as they gain a greater share of the wealth created, and porky pays for the wage increase despite his attempts at clawing back the profit margin.

nice "socialism" you got there pal

redpanels is mentally challenged

He's waiting until he can go full ML.

it's called voluntaryism

sounds spooky

If I knew who makes this trash I would've shoot the bastard in the face.

redpanels cringe thread?

See! You have a choice.
"Voluntaryism" is infant level understanding or grasp of politics/life in general.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Wrong, slavery is not a voluntary relationship, it is the theft of property of the serf from the feudal lord.

It's the lord's land, just like it is your lord's company.

Bernie massively hid his power level. If you check out videos of him talking outside of the election you'll see he only put up the front of a social democrat pragmatically

my inner brocialist likes that one

That's complete bullshit

Go back to reddit

I'm well aware, but in the vein of critiquing social democracy a joke about "Marxism"-"Leninism" fit well.



What's the problem? Communism wants to destroy jobs. Firms that can't afford to pay 15 dollars an hour should simply go bankrupt and work hours should forcibly be reduced to force other businesses to hire said displaced workers.

Please stop being stupid


You've just said that the person being exploited had a choice.

This isn't how it works either way. The only negative of increasing the minimum wage I've seen empirical support for is teen unemployment rising by 1% or so.

Also, people who argue about the minimum wage in terms of inflation or unemployment miss that point, which is that it's an attempt to boost shit-tier real wages which are often sustenance wages relative to the moral and historical circumstances of it's respective country.

He really is.

I know, but it's worth it. Trust me.

Consider that without a minimum wage, businesses would be paying what they currently pay illegal immigrants.

citation needed

capitalism is completely voluntary though.


As a liberal (albeit an unconventional one) who kinda likes Sargon I really want to see Sargon debate a far leftist, he seems somewhat ignorant in regard to leftist ideologies (said Bernie was a communist, thinks communism is government ownership over means of production, thinks Venezuela is outright communist, repeats nonsense talking points like muh 100 gorillion and bread lines, etc) and could learn a lot, and it could give his viewerbase greater exposure to leftist ideas

Not that user, but I would love watching the spaghetti explode out of your pockets as you would attempt to explain that to a homeless crack addict working in the Detroit sex trade.

Is the serf stealing the property of the feudal lord? Or is the feudal lord stealing the property of the serf?

Just like taxes, right?

I don't understand what is supposed to be going on here.

Red Panels chats shit, but their cartoons can be beautifully appropriated.

people drank themselves to death during the ussr because life was that shit lel

the poor don't represent the public.

Can't argue with that logic.

I never said that? But they are a massive amount of people who have severely less freedoms and liberties than the more economically muh privileged classes. This is why I don't believe capitalism is a "Completely voluntary" system.

Feudalism was also "voluntary". You 'could' just run off and live in a hut in the wilderness and live off the fat of land somehow.


of course life was exponentially less shit than before when russia was, you know, a feudal society, just 4 decades prior to putting the first person in space

also the neoliberal hell russia has been since the collapse of the USSR is most definitely worse than the USSR in the later years

How so?

There are no Marxists in that pic though

He was too good for this gay Earth.

I vaguely recall him debating one, but I don't follow e-celebs so I can't be sure. I think he shittalked Badmouse, who asked for a debate. Maybe Chapo asked too?

Try asking in an e-celeb thread.


He made a video shitting on Badmousewho I don't even really know or watch btw, I watch neither & is now conveniently dodging debating him. That's all I know atm.

Wait, didn't he say he wanted Bernie Sanders to win the election, during the primaries?

In times of global capitalism, a national minimum wage only leads to outsourcing of jobs to other countries which don't have a minimum wage. The only solution is global socialism.

tbh there's plenty of solutions that boil down to punishing the corporations who pull that shit

remember how Trump said he would press tariff on corporations that try dodging their responsibility? and then he went and basically bribed that corporation with public money in order for them to stay here before he was even in office? good times

Yep & the hate it got him from his retarded alt-right base made him realize he should never be rational again, if he wants to keep those paychecks. He turned to shitting on him after that.

Trump essentially wants to manage a country like a corporation. Now what will that lead to if all nations are managed like corporations? It will lead to a global competition between nation states, who compete for transnational corporations to invest in their country instead of the other ones. The competition leads to lower wages instead of higher ones and in the end the workers lose, because they are not mobile, whereas the transnational corporations are mobile.

I don't mind putting up with Sargon of Assmad but two fucking hours? At least give timestamps

he said bernie was slightly better than trump and was a communist at the end of this vid


All of which had strong, anti-imperialist, socialist movements and/or governments in the mid 20th century.

Brocialism doesn't real

thanks. Discussion of controversial issues is important to the improvement of our arguments

On a way lesser extent. People drank themselves to death so badly that Gorbachev had to limit the sales of it in the midle 80s. Tbh I would have drunk myself to death too living under such a shit system.

Is this necessarily a problem? Think about how many people work multiple jobs because they earn so little that they have to do so.

Actually not anymore is this the case. It only began rising again when putin cracked down on hard liquor.

do you set a max income allowance for yourself and donate the rest to that state/charity?


in communism it would be both

Only for you, libertarian.


This one is worth it. Redpanels gets completely destroyed, and starts raging after like 20 minutes.


Not an example of Communism. Google Juche.
NK is also put into an economic choke-hold thanks to international sanctions. Due to this condition, even if NK was a capitalist nation, their starvation problem would probably not be much different.

Starvation and Malnutrition in Cuba really became a big problem after the collapse of the Soviet Union. This meant they lost their biggest trade partners, which obviously severely crippled the economy in a slew of ways. Now on top of that, you had trade sanctions from the capitalist superpowers.
This can hardly be considered a direct result of Castro's socialist system. Like the case with NK, no capitalist economy could thrive in these choke-hold conditions.

Stalin did starve many Ukranians to death, there is no denying that. But I believe food insecurity, starvation, and malnuturition all declined in the late, modernized soviet union.
not all socialists agree with Stalinist economic policy


Still waiting

SJWs are upset by the rigid traditional gender roles prevalent in the late Soviet Union. So they're glad Marxism "changed", because Red Panels serious believes tumblrinas are commies.


far less than the utopian ideology

So he's going off the false premise that workers are actually paid what they're worth?

Not that poster, but that's about the level of discourse I'd expect from you.
How so? What does this even mean?

you're right it's no true communism


Damn dude. At least come up with an original criticism of what I said.

Yes they are right. You would know it if you actually read a book.

no true response to questions either, I see

In that magical country where unemployment doesn't exist and the labour-market thus is not buyer's market.

Just stop. Far less people starved to death worldwide during the great depression than the monumental fuckup that was the holodomor. Mao starved more people to death than capitalism was able to do in the 20th century.

And you base this off of what?

Besides, the "no true communism" argument actually works when you consider that Stalinism and Maoism are greatly divergent from original communist thought. It may be what they somehow considered to be "communism", but it's not what most communists had in mind, so holding them indirectly responsible is intellectually dishonest.

You're not giving a proper response to & are instead moving the goalposts, making new arguments. You're definitely from Holla Forums.

fuck off, piece of shit

It is communism if it fits the definition of communism, and capitalism if it fits the definition of capitalism you retard. And both the USSR and China fall into the second category. Period.

so even with medical advancements over time it took a decade and a half for capitalist Russia's life expectancy to catch up with the USSR's

stalin actually had pretty effective economic policies tbh, and this is coming from a liberal, the USSR industrialized very rapidly and experienced economic growth only outmatched by Japan (who also made use of heavy economic planning and pursued very protectionist trade policies)

Holodomor was a bit of a misstep, but even then, there are multiple factors that contributed to it, including weather conditions and massive crop rust, I don't think Holodomor was nearly as big of a policy failure as the Great Leap Forward, and even then, natural conditions still played a large role in the Chinese famine

the US wasn't a medieval feudal state a few years prior to the Great Depression, what an inane comparison, and even then, the famine during the Great Leap Forward was not entirely due to policy failure and natural weather conditions played a large role, on top of this, the life expectancy during the peak of the Chinese Famine was no worse than that of China a couple of years before Mao, compared to countries like India for example, despite having similar growth in terms of GDP per capita, China under Mao experienced huge gains in life expectancy

You could at least bother to do some cursory research.

I hate to admit but the tankie is right. Holodomor (after the opening of the soviet archives) is a conspiracy theory dedicated to fual Ukrainian nationalism.

True. On Holodomor, see above.
You can use this argumentation to prove the effectiveness of planned economy. I like parecon more than central planning, but the rampant idea of neoliberalism (gov. intervention is bad for economy) is still strong and wrong.

Is there a comprehensive refutation of Holodomor?

Someone wrote out a tl;dw in the comments.

I see a tl;dw written by an anime avatar making painting Sargon as the bad guy.




Same for Nordics and Greenland. It is almost as if climate has something to do with depression…

But seriously Russia is a terrible place to live regardless of ideology

Don't know. At least we know where to read: the archives. I don't speak Russian.

Actual statistics. Nobody ever was able to your failed ideology right despite repeated attempts, so it probably has to do with your shitty ideology.

No it wasn't. Private commerce was not allowed to exist. China was only capitalist after the early 80s.

Because alcohol consumption greatly increased after the collapse of the USSR you tard.


China was being industrialized during Mao when it was a huge agrarian state before hand, so you're going to see rises in life expectancy.nonetheless the economy and poverty all remained exceedingly high since the dengist reforms. The life expectancy increases were still less than Japan, sk and it's capitalist Asian neighbors during the same period under Mao.

economic stagnation*

Read Bordiga. He was among the first to understand that in the USSR, workers didn't have control over the means of production.

Yes it was, and it was the vast majority of the economy.

It still wasn't capitalism as private business was non-existent.


That's not how you define capitalism. Private property was held by a lot of party members and no control over the MoP -> capitalism. Not with free markets, but still capitalism.


You should be able to cite all the private businesses in the USSR then. I'll wait.

Wow it's actually like you need a ruling class with more powet and wealth to implement your ideology in the forst place. really made me think

Wikipedia, socialism:

Still not socialism. Our point was that it wasn't socialism.


It wasn't capitalost you idiot.

This is stupid. Take a look at a store / restaurant etc. where most people work, and 1% if that companies profit doesn't go to wages.

You never heard of kolkhozes?


ones that are disproportionate compared to similar countries

the data I've been able to find on Japan doesn't seem to agree with this, and SK and Japan actually had similar policies to the USSR (rapid industrialization driven by heavy central planning)

reporting in from a country with a very high minimum wage

finding work is so fucking hard, so what they've done to get around it is impliment these programs where you work for a pitiful amount of government money and need to do 30 hours a week for it or you get nothing.

you do this for private organisations that would have otherwise potentially hired you properly.

you add in the competition from mandatory fruit picking for anyone wanting to live here and fly-in workers from everywhere that you don't need to pay minimum wage and you end up totally fucking screwed. i think of killing myself more often than not my life hasn't progressed since my meme college degree i got. when i was 22 (now 27)

another trick they do is they "train" kids still in school which means they pay them literally 1/4 as much as an adult

once this clusterfuck starts you are fucking doomed

and yet youre still sporting a nazi flag and letting yourself get cucked by capitalists

truly Lumpen

Someone had to do this.

there's only one upside

if you do get a job you're a made man and can just spam money at anything and everything

good job being a cuck

I thought the nazis had a low unemployment rate

Property rights are not voluntary user, they're enforced with the utmost violence.

ofc, they had but they had a military economy. workers were wagecucked pretty hard

They had low unemployment rate, but it was extremely wagecucked. Unions banned, work-shy people were sent off to do what was effectively slave labour. It was a porky's dream.

And you are free to meet that violence with voluntary violence. And you idiots call yourselves revolutionaries. You know nothing of revolution.

It's voluntary to be a slave because you choose not to revolt against the system. Truly a thought of the highest caliber there, user.

kek. This is what the average person thinks socialism is too

But muh NAP

subtle, clever

What is good for labor isn't good for capital, nothing new to see here. Sucks to be a reformist i guess.