/ourguy/ makes another response to Sargon where he tries to explain some basic leftist concepts to him

t. Revisionist

This. Spread it far and wide. We should also try to get BadMouse on some YouTube show that actually has some reach.

I vote Drunken peasants.

This could be actually fun tbh.

Not a bad idea tbh

get him to debate destiny

Paul is a borderline comrade anyway.

that was pretty fucking good.

How much does Sargon actually make with his videos?

I haven't seen badmouse's stuff in a while. Is he less of a liberal tard than he used to be?

TJ is also a discontented socdem who could possibly be pushed lefter. Scotty seems like a bit of a reactionary though probably just due to apathy. I have no read on Ben other than DUDE WEED LMAO.

When was he a liberal?

He was a lolbert early on in his youtube but after 2008 became a socdem. This purpose of this won't be to radicalize them, but to let normies know what we actually want.

The main reason BadMouse made this video is because Sargon was too much of a pussy to actually debate him.
Which is funny considering his fans where sperging out and constantly telling BM on twitter to debate Sargon.

I hope this starts affecting Sargon negatively soon.

sargon is a bargain brand molymeme who can't even make a good arguement

I thought Sargon had suggested a debate instead of BadMouse making a video debunking him and BadMouse said he'd do both. So now we have one of those. When will the other happen, if at all? And wasn't Muke going to (attempt to) debate Sargon?

Nevermind, I realized he had a Patreon account and checked it out.

Wait… This dunce's making $3,000+ a month? Please tell me this is a joke.

B U M P I N I

There are terrible artists that make more money than him. Nothing surprising there. Chapo also makes more, so there's that.

So was Rebel and AW. Turns out Sargon's just a craven faggot with a face like a slapped ass and a beard glued on.

im using that in the future

Go look at his twitter pic right now for maximum enjoyment.

dang. bad mouse is getting a lot better.

Ben was actually a card carrying commie at one point. He's talked about it on the show many times(maybe not recently). The "Ban Ben" shirt is playing off of that, too.

He genuinely argues in meme form, so it's not hard to embarrass him.

Welp, time for me to make a Patreon account. Somebody's bound to give me a few dollars for writing article on obscure Senegalese social-realist cinema at some point in time.

I've watched the show lots, but I've never heard that. Also pretty sure the American party is cucked and his perception is painted by that.

Make videos. Hell, I have a few concepts.

Yeah, I watch way too much DP. Tbh I was actually just watching an older episode right now, lmao. I started watching them during the primaries because I needed some comic relief to de-stress from being so into politics 24/7.
That probably does have something to do with it.

I have a weird respect for destiny.
Last time we sent someone from leftypol to talk to him, he was relatively open and willing to engage honestly.
Might not be a bad idea.

Well shit. We really should reach out to him. The Drunken Peasants have a sizeable audience and they have a lot of people as guests.

Badmouse is really good, except for the fact that he's an idpol. He really needs to uncuck himself.

Sargon specialises on arguing against idpols. He would use that against Bad Mouse and try to ignore the rest of his politics.
Regardless, it would be a very fun debate to watch.

This, so much. Like I said, too, he argues in meme form & chooses the lazy way of arguing/debating. Tbh I didn't even know who badmouse was until I saw that Sargon videothat keeps popping up in my feed >:( with the clickbait title "NEET revolutionaries" or something. Since Sargon went out of his way to attack this comrade, he owes him a debate.

I don't give a shit about either of them, tbh, but Sargon has a lot of impressionable/young viewers so they deserve to be exposed to coherent lefty arguments.

Maybe he does, but as long as he's not an Anita-tier free speech hater he'll seem reasonable in a debate compared to Sargon, especially if he goes after Sargon for allowing right-wingers to get away with the same shit he criticizes the left for.

I would prefer if he didn't spread around the notion that all the left is idpol. I think it is something we have to get rid of in order to regain some connection to the working class.

I actually used to watch Sargon all the time. He is the guy who got me out of idpol, but recently he has been doing videos about actual politics, and most of the stuff he says is just so ignorant, I stopped watching.

I don't think Sargon will respond.
He chickened out of the debate, and if there's one thing he's good at is controlling his image. He knows there is a possibility he may lose this one and it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.

So, who brought up a debate in the first place? From what it seemed to me, it was Sargon. At least, when you make a video about someone trying to tear them/their ideology down, internet protocol is to have a response/debate; not ignore it. If Sargon does ignore it then we need to constantly remind him of that fact. In his video, Sargon even called himself a "radical", if you can believe that. Hilariously not self aware.

Badmouse asked Carl to debate him first.
Then Badmouse kept reminding him that they were supposed to debate this week, and he ignored him twice. I think there's a screen cap of it in the video.

Reminds me of when the Donald chickened out of debating the Bern. That type of shit needs to be shouted from the rooftops at max volume.

Got a link to that tweet? People with twitter should quote it and tweet at Carlito.

Sure.
Here you go.
twitter.com/BadMouse101/status/829755238580158464

Here's the first time he put it off

twitter.com/BadMouse101/status/829770147116220417

Here's when he straight up ignored him.

twitter.com/BadMouse101/status/831137602111696896

twitter.com/BadMouse101/status/831898615262109696

This. There needs to be a concerted effort by the true left to escalate this until Sargon is either completely discredited as a result of refusal to do a debate or is completely discredited in a debate.

thanks doc!

sargon is the cuckmaster general so it won't be that hard to discredit his dumb little ass

Muke here. I'm still likely to debate Sargon at some point just can't say when atm because apparently he has irl shit going on right now.

Oh no….

Anyone who actually debates him needs to go after his pandering to the alt-right hard. He's trying to affect the Overton window by pretending to be nominally on the left while excusing the kind of SJW-tier false flagging and censorship that the right does.

Sounds legit

No.
Bad strategy.
He has plausible deniability and will just smoke screen his way out.

Bullshit. He and Dave Rubin and the rest of those faggots have never done anything except shill for the right while pretending to be on the left ever since they realized it was profitable. If they try to smoke screen through that, call them out on it. People will realize it anyway.

Pay attention to the news Badmouse, Oxfam revised the figures a month ago. It's now 8 people who own as much wealth as the bottom half of humanity.

Yeah, but he'll just resort to his old standby in pic related.
He thinks helping the right destroy the left is somehow making it stronger or whatever.
Because we're all irrational "regressives" who need to be taught a lesson by Fatbeard of Facade himself, remember?

If he actually believes that, he's even dumber than I gave him credit for. If he doesn't, he's knowingly lying to his viewers. Either way he needs to be called out on it very publicly.

He's cunningly stupid.
Don't get me wrong, we all intuitively know he's a cuck for the right, but you're wasting time in a debate if you want to concretely prove his intent is to help them. He could dance around the issue for hours and you'd get nowhere. I just think there's a lot better things you could hammer him with that would probably get the same point across.

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO SARGON

There's no reason to only attack him in only one way. He's one of the biggest voices for the alt-right, and exposing him as a fraud would be one of the biggest steps we could take right now toward breaking the power of the alt-right and winning a ton of people over to the left. If we expect to ruin his credibility, we need to fire everything we have at him.

Do you have at least a set topic and rules? Your will need them he will just go around making random attacks about muh 100 billion, or this cringy college kid or that stupid "leftist"

I will sort out details like that when (if) we actually set a date for it.

This is important. Also, anyone who gets a chance to debate Sargon should probably namedrop BadMouse and talk about his video even if it doesn't end up being BadMouse himself doing it.

Hey Muke, I know a lot of people like to give you shit, but BadMouse is proof that even if you didn't do so well once, it doesn't have to stay that way. If BadMouse can get better, you can too. Do you have a plan to beat Sargon?

Yea, I'm gonna try and focus on the LTV and overwhelm him with Marxist economics. He shouldn't be able to properly refute the reasoning behind it and then I can lead from that reasoning to conclusions like the falling rate of profit ect to show why Capitalism doesn't work. It's unlikely we will stay on topic long enough to get to that, I will try though.

And thanks.

Expect him to throw the Das Mudpie argument at you.
A lot of the people he hangs out with like to pull that one.

Yea I think I could handle that.

It's like people can't into socially necessary labor time. smh tbqh, fam

This is honestly a bad rhetorical plan of attack. Successful debate comes from studying the common argument/rhetorical techniques used by opponents and being prepared to dismiss or discredit them as appropriate.

Your plan puts you on the defensive the second you slip up with your asserted positions. It is always easier to attack then to defend. Assertion is best after you've weakened your opponents position

Honestly, I'd focus less on Marxist economics than on Sargon's actions in defending the right if I were you. You can just let people come to their own conclusions about socialism. After all, there are many different socialist tendencies. This is primarily about wrecking the right.

Be sure to read up on the weakness of mainstream economics as well.

I hope you do well man. Dinguses like Sargon have a lot of followers. Might be able to win a few converts.

Godspeed comrade

No, definitely don't do that. If you throw out a lot of (to normies) confusing jargon and complex ideas, he'll accuse you of gish galloping. Remember the people he and his kind are used to debating are religious nuts. Keep it as straightforward as possible and hammer him repeatedly on the shit that he cannot refute. The absolute last thing you want to do is come off sounding like a religious nut, which is exactly what Marxist theory sounds like to normies.

This guy has a point.
Knowing Carl, he'd pull something like that.

Also this
I would recommend you do this
>ideally get Sargon to say verbatim "sure it's not perfect but it's the best system we have"
People are more receptive to a narrative than a coherent structural analysis. Plan your arguments so that over the course of the debate you can portray civilization as the underdogs who have to over come their current shitty predicaments to reach their full potential.

Polite sage for doublepost.

This is all good stuff. Hope Muke's still reading these posts or comes back to the thread later. He really needs to adopt a more attack-oriented posture and hit Sargon on his support for the right, but he doesn't have to be a rabid dog. A surgical approach of pokes and prods is what's needed here.

Muke a good boy.
He just needs to be pointed in the right direction.
We must raise him like simba.

You mean whack him over the head with a stick and wait for him to get a vision of his murdered father in the clouds?

...

this

"I was in education"
More specific.
"Employed"
Doing what?

And he doesn't say that he lives alone,
aka probably still with his parents.

Hmm… I don't want to put this neet thing to a rest yet.

youtu.be/iU4lSN8S9nM?t=11m31s

also

I turned my adblock off for this video

Pretty bad response.

Do you even know if sargon saw his tweets?

Just read through all the debate tips. Good points were raised I will take them on board for sure.

I don't really want to get caught up with sargon defending the right though, honestly I dont think it matters. Even if he defended liberals I'd still have to explain the faults of capitalism.

Didn't this guy said once he doesn't like leftypol tho?

No wonder. He's a filthy idpol.

He was an ancap up until a couple years ago

Hey comrade. he has videos where he shit talks idpol as a big distraction. He's not even an idpoler

Bumping this thread to check the progress on spreading the video around and maybe to give out some additional debate tips. One that occurred to me earlier is that Sargon is going to harp on how socialists want to stifle free speech, especially given what happened to PewDiePie. No matter how well his opponent understands economics, if people think socialism doesn't respect free speech they won't listen. It's the job of whoever debates him to point out that capitalism has a sordid history of censorship all its own, and that PewDiePie being dropped is a direct result of capitalist economic relations. Disney is a massive corporation that wants to make money, and that's where the impetus for dropping him came from.

How is he exactly? I didn't see much of it in most of the videos I have watched, this video was pretty class focused and on point too.

He made a video where he disses All Lives Matter.

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

There's also the money he gets from youtube.

Do Xex or BadMouse make money from YouTube?

I guess you referred to muke, right?

They get a very small amount of money.

socialblade.com/youtube/user/xaxie1
socialblade.com/youtube/c/xexizy

Sargon has half million views/video and he is still very far from being rich.

Horrible idea. Given that many very Marx-inspired people disagree on what the LTV even is, how do you suppose this to work?

Mudpie is only one possible dismissal of many. Adding in "socially necessary" to the time is not some killer argument for the Marx side, it leads to the question how you know what's "socially necessary", and how much can prices diverge from actual expended labor time because of this modifier. Saying I have some great theory about how Z happens because of some observable Y that is causing it, but that Y can be modified by an unobservable factor X when causing Z, and X can be so big or small that no resulting value for Z can be ruled out a priori, is an utterly vacuous statement. You can plug in anything in this world for Y and Z and something unobservable thing for factor X and have a formula that can't be shown to be false, and that can't be used to predict shit.

To have that theory be worth something, you either have to modify the position in at least one of these two ways: that there are bounds to how much X can affect the result or that or that X can be observed. People who claim to be Marxists (and who have claimed that identity for decades) have disagreements about how labour time rules the economy, so how do you put this into soundbite form while getting heckled? Forget about doing that.

youtube.com/watch?v=zVBaBWAFrFg
They're taking suggestions in the comments of this vid if you want to ask them to bring BadMouse on.

You need to memorize some simple and short answers, think the length of two or three tweets at most, for issues like free speech mentioned by . E.g. "I have no problem with tiddies in video games." Or: "People who claim you turn into a serial killer by watching a gory movie once are more often found on the conservative side than any other." You don't know in advance how much time you have and when you will get interrupted, so you need to construct your memorized statements in a way that the message is not crucially dependent on bits that are far apart. Instead make a general statement, and follow up with an example if you aren't interrupted, keep more examples in case you are questioned for more or you figure out your discussion "partner" is especially annoyed by that argument, so you expand it then. E.g. in the early 80s was an American hysteria about people who have Dungeons and Dragons as a hobby being satanists. More recently, Harry Potter got accused of being satanic. This stuff comes usually from conservative Christian groups. In Germany in the early aughts there was a pupil running amok, and the CDU (the mainstream conservative party) instantly blamed violent video games.

You need a quick answer for: "Socialism didn't work, look at the USSR" You can say that it wasn't real socialism, but that's going to be a really boring and convoluted answer, many won't believe you and there are plenty of Marxists who won't believe you either. Here is a quick reply: Modern computers and computer networks are a game changer. (The question is not whether that is the most precise and exhaustive answer you think you would write in a book, but whether it works in a debate.)

You need an answer for the charge lack of democracy. You could advocate for having juries instead of judges (who may belong to the ruling party) decide on whether the defendant (who might be in opposition to the government) gets to be free, the judge merely moderating things. A big jury drawn from the general population could also be an additional check on the legislature. They don't need to be able to know everything and write new laws, they just get to judge changes to laws proposed by the legislature and decide on whether to keep the status quo or let the proposal pass. You can say you are interested in electoral reform (you can read the pdf in the first post here >>>/freedu/914 though that is probably overkill).

A whole lot of this. It's about gearing yourself toward a debate, not about giving the maximum amount of detail possible.

You need to simplify your theory otherwise people won't like it

t. I Don't Understand History And Don't Understand Most People Are Neither For Or Against Revolutions

This is pretty much true. You only have a handful of ideological fanatics on any side. If it came right down to it there are probably 10% or less of the population who are actually dedicated to socialism. You won't get every normie to help, but you can at least get them to not stand in your way.