How should we approach this situation as leftists? Do we pick a side or watch the two sides crush each other and scavenge the corpses?
While I hate Trump I can't bring myself to side with the Deep State because they have destroyed every single rising leftist movement possible and I just know that of they take down a populist right wing President via a coup (which they surely will) they will do the same to a left wing populist President as well. If the election was between Jeb Bush vs Bernie Sanders and Bernie had won I have no reason to doubt that a similar thing would be happening right now.
Hopefully if both the establishment, right wing populist and the Deep State manage to crush each other then we can finally have a chance at leading America once again. There's no doubt that the American public is ready for a left populist candidate now. Once the mainstream neoliberal establishment is destroyed then we can make progress.
Let them destroy each other they're both parts of the ruling class and only exist to protect property. That would still be true even if it was a Bernie style succdem.
Justin Sanchez
What's fantasy about the Deep State? It's essentially the focal point of the neoliberal world order. At the heart of is large corporations and the intelligence community. Go look at the Business Roundtable. The largest corporations are in bed with the Deep State. Same goes for the media.
A shadow government is real. There's a reason why most people feel that the Presidents we get are puppets for big corps and banks. Because it's ultimately the truth. Obama was a shill. So was Bush. Clinton.
But hey.. it's """democracy""". I think the neoliberal order is crashing down. It just makes me sad that it's the right wing populist who are doing it. I wish we had a real leftist populist that was doing the fighting.
Levi Allen
But Bernie's socdem was still a threat to the neoliberal establishment in America. Just look how the media handled him. The corporations took no notice of him and did not donate to him. His own party attacked him.
Bernie was our Trump. But I admit that he was spineless to concede defeat to the neoliberal monsters within his own party. He should have stood his ground more without lending support to Trump. He should have pressured more.
Benjamin Gonzalez
You're a newfag probably from reddit, stop posting and lurk more.
Logan Wilson
I want trump to win, because ultimately its better for the people if the hidden shadow government gets obliterated. Trump has the people on his side and the military. The media, the deep state, and the neolibs are openly trying to overthrow an elected president, and that is not a good thing. Lets say they do it, and some new neolib puppet is appointed. Okay, now you will always know in the back of your head that a secret shadow cabal controls everything and it does not matter who you vote for. That is even more depressing than trump winning.
Michael Wilson
It's time to start banning the plebbitor libshits
Jordan Rodriguez
What's the problem fella
Camden Richardson
Bernie was a threat to the neoliberal establishment, but he was definitely no threat to capitalism itself. It may be tempting to reform capitalism and get rid of neoliberalism, but all that will do is just create another form of capitalism. The problems and contradictions of capitalism are still there and it's not worth preserving.
Also, as a side note don't forget about her…
Jaxon Cruz
While I do browse reddit I don't see what I said was liberal? Trump is a racist, msynogist lunatic but I still don't want him to the overthrown by CIA. I would rather the people overthrow him. A coalition of BLM/ANTIFA/unions could militarily speaking be able to one day join us on our fight if we convert all the liberals and the brosocialists.
Jaxson Brown
I thought deep state just meant the non-elected aperatus of bureaucrats the keep sustains the system. Like the National Parks Service would be part of the deep state. Now I learn It's just "Shadow government conspiracies?". Did I give you too much credit?
Brandon Sanders
You're right, but there are some more nefarious elements in the intelligence agencies. I think people play up the American deep state a bit too much. It hasn't been shown to hold control over the state the way the Turkish deep state historically has. I think this is in part due to how fully controlled the state is by corporate power.
Andrew Price
not so tough now are ya, are ya?
Julian Brooks
You reddit faggots are so naively retarded it hurts Where the fuck you think you are?
deep state is more in reference to the intelligence and DOD communities during their service and after. Most leave to get high paying jobs in different consulting companies or other parts of the military-industrial complex. This has created a power structure that operates without regard to the 3 branches of government and can as is seen do independent action.
The CIA funding and having control over the world drug industry is a good example of this. They did this independently and it's become something that exists even beyond the agency.
John Miller
Possibly. I do find it odd that neoliberal and deep state are considered reddit. That's a new one.
Logan Lopez
Wouldn't be surprised if it were Holla Forums or cointelpro. Rather than making any arguments they're just shitposting.
Sebastian Foster
Brocialists don't exist. it's a word that exists to splinter parties. mfw incoherent screeching of "manarchist" caused the biggest ancom group in russia to split over literally nothing.
Jaxson Sanders
Leftypol is not brosocialist. There are some remnants of brosocialists from Holla Forums (neoreactionary white males) who have a loud voice here. They attempt to subvert leftypol to make it an all white club but it doesn't work since they are outnumbered. That's all.
Dominic Davis
socialists who show disregard for women do exist
Michael Barnes
the deep state has only really been around since the 60s and what president has challenged their system (besides kennedy of course). There has never been an overt need to show control so once a need appears (Trump) of course it's going to be done somewhat sloppily. I'm just astounded at how happily the MSM has embraced this entire situation. When I was a kid i wanted to be a journalist and I believed the whole thing about truth being the most important thing in a democracy. How fucking silly man
Cameron Williams
You have to go back.
Logan Hernandez
Brosocialists circa 1960s: Lol who cares about African-American civil rights dude! It's all about class! Stop dividing the left.
Brosocialists today: Lol who cares about oppression of Muslim, women and trans! Stop diving the left.
Brosocialists exist and you are one of them. Start looking in the mirror more.
Dominic Young
If your epistemology is based on Christian apologetics and relationships, you're a liberal.
And this is why liberals need to be put to the wall and not engaged.
Justin Thompson
Yes. Pretty much the only thing Holla Forums has had a consensus on before reddit is Bernie>Trump>Hillary, liberals are latent fascists, and SocDems killed Rosa. They're trying to capitalize on all the shit the whiners got yesterday for crying about accelerationist Trump.
Jace Turner
...
Nolan Cox
You need to go back to Holla Forums
Elijah Morales
Holla Forums have become 21st century Trots.
Evan Carter
If only the world had listened
Jose Myers
Where the fuck are hotpockets when for once they are actually needed?
Nicholas Thomas
...
Angel Evans
You have to go back.
You have to go back too you must be new.
Carson Reyes
Wow! I've really hurt the feelings of brosocialists/Gamergate leftists now. Sorry little white guy for hurting your feelings! Fuck black people as long as you control the means of production, haha. Yay for neoreactionary politics!! This will surely save the left!!!
Evan Torres
We fight to end the oppression of Muslims and Women by opposing capitalism and imperialism. every communist understands this. Brocialism means someone who rejects the Critical theory "Check your prvilege" nonsense that's going on today. since you're keen to bring up the 1960s, most black communists of that time would endorse an anti identity-politics position.
Chase Bennett
...
Wyatt Mitchell
...
Sebastian Adams
You come off as a spy and a traitor.
Matthew Smith
>>>/reddit/
Jack Taylor
That's a neoreactionary misrepresentation of what Critical Theory actually is. Are you sure you're a leftist? You seem like a Holla Forums guy to me.
Easton Young
I'm a communist in the style of Malcom X and Castro.
Ayden Perez
let's fuck those gays up fam
Daniel Mitchell
meant for
Jose Thompson
Considering the damage you SJW faggots did to the left I say these "neoreactionary politics" are worth a shot.
Carter Howard
slander. Cuba had conscription, homosexuals could not serve in the army, so they worked on farms instead. Cuba was a 3rd world catholic country before and after castro came to power, not a progressive 1st world democracy. Che also wasn't a racist in adulthood.
Blake Cox
...
John Martin
The press conference trump just did was amazing, it completely played to his base, his base fucking hates the media, liberals think it was bad because they blame trump every time they stub their toe.
The right wing sphere is fucking applauding and feel energized after the media tried to do a flynn hit job, also now the story is about le crazy trump and the media
Any person memeing about how stupid people are for believing in the deep state is COINTELPRO.
Nathan Reed
I care about racism and sexism but "oppression of Muslims"? Who cares? Religion has to go
Cameron Cook
Honestly, left wing and right wing america lives in two realities.
The right loves that trump keeps his promises, that he takes the media to task, the people are screaming "right on, fuck those fucking fucks"
Noah Clark
It's scary to them because now he has a platform to take them on their own term (playing to the crowd) and the tech to get his messages out independent of traditional media.
Robert Young
People memeing about the deep state treat it as if it was some unnatural thing that popped out of nowhere, which usually means they are retards who got stuck on Rousseau
Joseph Morris
No but it's the first time the deep state has taken an active role in destablising its own national democracy and so flaggrantly at that.
Nicholas Allen
Stop saying words that actually mean something
Hunter Morales
meme answer: Support Trump as an agent of anti-imperialist against the deep state
serious answer: he's just an agent of a different faction of said deep state
Ethan Cox
explain
Angel Ramirez
are you like
joking rn?
Julian Hernandez
Then play them off against each other.
Just another set of bankers mate.
Bentley Martin
what bankers though? Trump got barely any funding from the finance industry. What are they offering him? More money?
Aiden Nelson
I'm just saying you should stop using this shitty term and just say state apparatus, it doesn't imply there is some "shallow state" nor that the the state alienating from "peoples' choice" is unnatural.
Benjamin Gray
...
Zachary Martin
r/socialism is whiter than Holla Forums though. Holla Forums may actually have real females in it.
Andrew Powell
Lots of articles coming out today about how the idea of a deep state is totally preposterous. Even one on Buzzfeed. Very interesting.
William Evans
Don't bring that up. kthnx
Brandon Cruz
...
Kayden Jackson
Suppose so but then most people arn't very versed in history. This is late empire though collapse soon hopefully.
Pure coincidence.
Fuck off you lazy attention seeking cunt.
Bentley Smith
...
Noah Torres
look at who has backed Trump in this election and see what ties they have.
here's an obvious example: Alex Jones, a huge Trump shill, has CIA ties: His father was a dentist for the CIA, and he has ties to the John Birch society, which has been pushing right-wing conspiracy theories since the 60s. He plugged the John Birch society on his show. Trump also has been backed by Blackwater.
Of course since you're posting with the Nazi flag you would probably like the JBS, Liberty Lobby, and the like, but this is just one example.
All the Globalist (tm) organizations like the CFR, Trilateral Commission, etc. have right-wing equivalents. They're apparently just better at not making themselves widely known, or perhaps the far right is better at cultivating paranoia. Most of them are descendants of the American Security Council of the 60s, like the Center for Security Policy.
Lincoln Watson
I'm not lazy, actually.
Joseph Jackson
that's a really dumb way to phrase it though. like deep state is the term that best fits what the intelligence community is in our society. if you use "state apparatus" then you'll have to listen to retards try to argue that some intern at the National Parks Service is proof that there is no conspiracy happening in the federal government
Camden Robinson
Big oil and Goldman Sachs maybe can't remember but on the brightside they're race realists in the oil industry so they have no problem torching 3rd world villages for pipe lines.
Nathan Watson
Better to keep them around, explicitly because they will be easier to get rid of.
Trump's people aren't idiots like the establishment.
Anthony Turner
It might as well be called the grand revolt of the IC in conjunction with some whitehouse staffers.
Jason Lewis
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
KEEP MAKING ME CUM
Ryan Wilson
This might blow your mind but the finance industry loves it when congress crafts regulations they write. It creates even more barriers protecting them from competition from other firms which allows them to get an even bigger chunk of the profit from their jewtrade. But you seem like a typical reddit liberal who thinks Trump having some ex finance guy in his cabinet is the biggest gotcha they could get.
David Peterson
The desision makes are idiots because they've been insulated from their failures for so long. The people underneither it's anyones guess.
Eli White
It's a segment of the IC. In case you didn't notice, James Woolsey, former CIA director, backed Trump.
Adam Thompson
...
Josiah Miller
You might blow in general.
Liam Miller
like when he said bankers I thought he meant like a specific group that had an agenda and not 2 former finance guys
Na more big oil remember his picks from that oil group what was it's name, still if he starts beating the war drum for Iran you know foreign policy has not shifted. Because this has been in motion since atleast the 90's as far back as I can remember.
Nicholas Bennett
...
Adrian Reed
Yeah Iran has me worried. That's why I'm glad that Flynn got dropped since he was a typical neocon in regards to Iran.
That being said in current geopolitics there is no point in fighting over oil since that would only hurt the shale industry which has a huge amount of reserves that are available to it in the states.
Noah Long
I'd say that the State realizing its own goals rather than being a mindless puppet is such an expected and natural occurrence that calling it a conspiracy is pretty silly.
Luis Lopez
it really is just some of the intelligence community though. The military side from what I've read is very pro Trump. That's why the JSOC has sided with Trump so strongly and why Trump has recruited officials from there
Caleb Jackson
...
Wyatt Howard
Why does the nazi suddenly love the establishment sided with AIPAC so much
Owen Mitchell
I have a confirmed penis and balls.
Blake Myers
post pics
Ethan Reyes
Directly or indirectly controlling half of the world's oil supply is a major geopolitical advantage. This meme that the US isn't interested in controlling the oil in the Middle East is bad.
Brody Gray
...
Mason Clark
hot tbh
Carter Morales
There really is no benefit to having a war with Iran dude. Their limited amount of oil isn't going to change anything. Also Iran is a member of OPEC. If such a war were to happen sure there would be some effects of Iran's oil not being able to enter the market but this would also occur with the Saudis being able to flood the market with oil again due to OPEC being a mess. This would then harm domestic shale production, hurting jobs, and in such an environment as ours doing anything to harm American workers is going to be disastrous politically.
Nicholas Jackson
You know that when the revolution comes, the deep state will be who you are fighting? Trump is just a reality TV star. It's like blaming neoliberal media garbage on Jake Tapper and not the network itself.
Anthony Bennett
Yes, absolutely everybody is aware of that.
Logan Baker
Then why did you make this thread
Levi Nelson
Because OP is a retard from reddit.
Jaxon Gutierrez
It's just Holla Forums bullshit, and probably some contrarians sperging out that deep state as a term is being used more often (everywhere, not just here).
Camden Sanchez
We do the same thing we always did - ironically support Trump.
Brayden Long
War with Iran is in the direct interest of Saudi Arabia. I'm not so sure they would torpedo the opportunity to take out their main adversary for some temporary profits. The regional advantage of controlling the Gulf are huge and war means millions in donations from the arms industry, defense contractors, construction companies, and energy industry to secure contracts.
Josiah Thompson
NSA have POTUS tax returns showing connection with Russia. POTUS silencing NSA and wants charges for the collection. POTUS staff seeking marshal law to redirect NSA to domestic agitators.
Connor Reyes
hes the good guy get over it
Jaxon Roberts
More like the sub slop pig
Anthony Lewis
It's really odd. There seems to be actual effort to curtail criticism of the intelligence community happening right here on this board.
Trump knows that more than anyone with those very clearly apparent ass implants
Grayson Gutierrez
You wish you did as many squats as Trump and you know it.
Brody Mitchell
Trump ass inflation porn is something I'm willing to commission
Jack Torres
take your meds
Carter Garcia
It's happening all over social media. Very interesting.
Daniel Ortiz
How is saying a deep state exists liberal? If anything it's the liberals who are currently cheering on the CIA to sabotage Trump's administration.
Brandon Foster
All this up=down trolling suggests that the Democratic Party's sjws are jewel-wasping Holla Forums just as the GOP did during the campaign season.
Aiden Ross
Fuck knows, I just ignore them at this point. Wish the mods would stop being such faggots about them though.
Ryan Butler
...
Blake Gray
46% of electorate did not vote Clinton, awful Clinton, won pop vote by 3 million Jill Stein's recounts were shut down by Trump
I mean, must be
Carter Cooper
can someone explain this to me. From what I've read Stein missed the filing date for recounts in multiple states and went through with the process in like 2 and they found that Trump won. Not to mention that illegals really did vote for Clinton
The deep state (or a significant faction of the deep state, really) dislikes him, but there are a lot of valid reasons for it and for me to dislike him regardless. And as an aside - the Russia shit is probably true, and is probably a significant source of deep state ire towards him rather than purely a propaganda point.
Grayson Flores
Fuck him, intelligence communities are intelligent, he is a moron pandering to the literal brain dead zombies in America
Honestly all people who voted for trump should lose their right to vote, they lack the intelligence required to participate in a democracy.
Matthew Lopez
it is partially true, Trump's backers from Right Wing deep state are the bigger issue. Rift between JSOC and CIA along with DoD and State Department and FBI and the DOJ is what is happening right now. The government is as polarized as the voting public is. Power grab is underway, people like Theil and Bannon are just eating away at the scraps left over by people like Kushner and the spooks that advise trump (who are all themselves answering to spookier spooks)
Nathan Lee
Unless you're the bourgeoisie, of course.
Aaron Baker
This level of emotional thinking suggests poorly read newfag. Next you will tell us Trump is a racist supremacist and all white men should die.
Noah Hernandez
interesting googling brings up popular links to the same fucking source which raises alarms on my skepticism meter
Brody Cruz
there is already a thread about this btw:
Asher Powell
Why, do you know him ?
Have you investigated "news" for yourself ?
Did he keep niggers in jail for weed and other "drug" "crimes" ?
Anthony Flores
If the CIA has concerns about Trump's connections to the Kremlin then why would they support him and his administration? To clarify, that doesn't make Trump and Putin anti-establishment heroes, and that certainly doesn't make the CIA anti-fascist heroes. A cursory study of the CIA's history should make that point loud and clear anyway.
Fuck everyone currently in power, tbqh. And honestly, is in-fighting between different factions of capitalists such a bad thing?
Jayden Baker
the CIA doesn't have any concerns about Trump and Putin other than this kills their Syria plans.
The US is constantly funding groups that come back to bite them on the ass down the road. This whole idea that the CIA our master strategists and our secretly in control of ISIS has no basis in reality. It's a nice neat way for you to wrap up a complex situation. It's easy to just think the CIA is actually competent instead of the reality that these people are as short sighted as they've always been and the people of the Middle East do in fact have agency over their actions.
Asher Powell
kys
Joshua Wood
and other porkys like it when there is competition. It's just a war among porkies fighting over porky things.
Ryder Myers
Lurk moar faggot.
Jack Torres
If CIA is really battling TRump then they would present the dossier, and show proof of Trumps economic dealings with the Russian mafia in Miami, where they laundered money for him.
Nothing of the sort is happening, as it create to much of an instability.
There is no doubt, some parts of the deep state dislike him, but actively fighting him? No.
Also conspiracy theorists sometimes overestimate the powers of the CIA, they aren't overall that smart.
Evan Hall
…or maybe US just took over ISI in 2006, not sure yet.
Brandon Taylor
I don't support Trump, though. I support him crashing and burning everything to the ground, which he might just do.
Joshua Jones
nobody said CIA is master strategists or even remotely competent but of course they armed and used ISIS at some point you faggot. i don't see how you can somehow believe that "arming isis" would somehow be an indication that CIA is competent.
Zachary Murphy
ISIS was primarily funded armed by Saudis/Malaysian moguls,as a response to Iran's and Russia's military presence in Syria.
Also ISIS started out as Al Qaeda, USA did certainly did arm and train the FSA, but there is no proof they funded/armed ISIS.
ISIS also was a wrench in US plans to hand Syria to FSA, and much of ISIS territory lies in Iraq, where US had to spend even more billions fighting them. Losing large parts of Iraq hardly seems like a part of US grand strategy.
Ryan Reed
When? Where? Do you have any proof aside from the fact that al-Zarqawi had CIA connections in the Russian-Afghan war? I see this shit all over the internet and nobody can provide any real evidence. It's all just vaguely connecting dots that may or may not have anything to do with each other.
all mujahedin were armed and trained by the US one way or another. they were america's fighting force with which they forced a soviet invasion.
Jace Morales
…considering though how late al-Zarqawi was to the party idk if he was sent there by CIA. Where we can be more confident about CIA control is the Mujahideen Shura Council.
Owen King
No shit. Operation Cyclone isn't a secret.
wow
Ian Turner
al-Zarqawi should probably have gone to Macedonia but didn't get the memo xd
Colton Miller
maybe. what it clearly does though is prove you completely wrong when you say ISIS had anything to do with russian/hezbollah presence in syria.
now go to the other thread and stop bumping this one, idiot.
John Hill
lmao
I never said anything about Hezbollah or Russia. You're talking to different people.
Jeremiah Perez
BAN THE FUCKING REDDIT
Noah Phillips
i was responding to , sorry
Jack Stewart
ofc israel did join the anti-assad coalition to get hezbollah out of lebanon and snatch the other half of golan heights but that was much later, CIA thought up the plan initially to get rid of russia's gas monopoly in europe.
