Hey Comrades...

Hey Comrades, I'm moving down to Melbourne soon for uni and was wondering what genuinely leftist non-liberal non-idpol organizations I should join?

Preferably no Trots or MLs but ill take what I can get if they are the only options

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user…i'm so sorry…

Basically no good socialist movements in Australia. All the parties like the salt and SA are cults.

Join antifa, at least they have fun. While you are at uni, entryism into young Labor or something.

Not OP but Melbourne is literally the best place to live in Australia by miles.

The rest of Australias cities are just suburban cultural wastelands.

melbourne itself is a great city (very expensive tho) but i think the lefty groups there are probably some of the worst in aus. overall they have a big left-wing movement but it's 99.9% idpol trots

CPA is actually OK, but they are M-Ls which is a dealbreaker for some, skew old and are mostly focused on supporting the union movement. Aussie branch of the SEP is also good, if small. Talked to some of their members and they are pretty cluey and willing to talk, but their leadership is pretty opaque and they are ultra-sectarian trots.

SAlt is a dodgy hobby club for bored uni students, literally everybody hates them and there are reports of cult-like behaviour. SAll is a slowly fading hippy org that doesn't realise the 90s are over, but they have a local councilor each in Melbourne and Perth.

Aussie antifa would be a genuinely funny parody if they didn't obviously take themselves so seriously. They get into screaming matches with equally laughable and tiny pseudo-fash groups and not much else, aside from occasional petty theft.

I've never personally interacted with any of the anarchist groups around, but I know some people in Melbourne who have and apparently they mostly fall apart over sexual jealousy.

Can Aussies attempt to clarify. I hear so many different things about Australia politically. Some people say it is like double the crazy when it comes to SJW'nees and some people say it's like America in the 50's (Not good for people of other races/sexes.)

I assume the latter statement is not that true because the Australian and New Zeeeeland you tubers I watch don't seem that different from other western country citizens in that regard, but it's still said enough that I thought I'd ask.

This is the cancer that is killing the left.

I'd say in some areas it's about equal, in some areas it's less. In America you have the deep south and the Bay Area, in Australia we have our equivalents.

OP, the Socialist Party is the least idpol of the "socialist" groups in the country, and really only operate in Melbourne. Other than that, if you want to actually create change and not sit around selling papers to get people into your weird trot cult (lol SAlt/SAll) I suggest looking into some of the bougie parties- the Australian Sex Party are fairly active in Melbourne, and they actually have a MP and do a lot of good stuff: abc.net.au/news/2015-08-19/abortion-clinic-buffer-zone-bill-to-protect-women-from-abuse-mp/6707726


Like says, a lot of this depends on your area. Melbourne for instance is like our San Francisco (but less charming) whereas north Queensland or rural WA is more like a "redneck" area.

More than that though, we kind of share the British history of top-down social change where our affluent upper-middle layers look on the lower classes with horror and want to civilise the blue-collar savages. This usually translates into very "SJW" government policy and social campaigns. The traditionalist or social conservative pushback is usually a direct result of overreach by cosmopolitan social liberals, same as anywhere else in the West.

I'm in the Socialist Party. We are certainly anti-idpol. We tend to have a meeting discussing identity politics and how to combat it semi-regularly. I wouldn't recommend any one join the sex party, It's just a party for brothel owners basically.

You should check us out OP.

I think I will tbh

Are you guys mainly ML, Trot or something else?

not him, but I think they are CWI affiliated Trots (the group SAlt in the US is affiliated with, but not local SAlt weirdly)

SP member again.

This bloke is correct

We are a Trot group. The CWI has about 40 sections around the world. Including the Socialist party in the UK (Formerly 'Militant') and SAlt in the US.

I understand a lot of the shit trots are known for such as being cultist, sectarian or idpol obsessed. But that hasn't been my experience with the party. In case the Trotskism threw you off a bit.

If you're in Melbourne next Wednesday you should come to a meeting we're having on the Feb Revolution since its been a 100 years and all.

Yeah I wont lie the Trotskyism bit threw me off a bit for obvious reasons, but thats good to hear you guys arent that bad.

And unfortuantly I wont be down there by then otherwise I would toatally go

Yeah no worries.

We have meetings open to the public at least once a month anyhow.

What uni were you starting at?

Leftist Renewal, their a Greens Party Faction who's stated goal is 'To destroy capitalism'
Sadly they think Invasion day is a thing.

Is socialist alternative any good?

Sex Party was funded by porkie, they also trade votes with other parties, don't trust em. (Most of those parties are big companies)

weren't they rebuked by that slimeball Di Natale and told to leave the party or something?

Yeah, he really hates them, they are still sticking around though. fuck Dick Christmas.

Socialist Alternative are the worst. They're little more than a cult that preys upon young, insecure uni students with no friends, makes them feel like they belong, while they subtly cut off those people from their friends and families. I've known multiple female former members who claim they felt they were pressured to sleep with potential marks in order to get them interested in the party, levels of absolute fuckedupness.

If you want to join a trot party, the Socialist Party are the only one that are remotely worth interacting with. I am not a member because I love me some markets, but even on issues I strongly disagree with them on I've never been assaulted, spat on, screamed at or anything, which is more than can be said for SAlt/SAll. They never try to take things over to hollow them out to use for their party, they are willing to work with people who aren't like them to get shit done, and I have never witnessed members playing the oppression olympics.

I'm not saying trust them, I'm saying they're less shit than basically any of the other minor parties. They're actively fighting for things like banning christfags from blocking access to abortion clinics, that kind of shit is actually good. They won't fix society, but they will make it marginally less cancerous.

If they start to make any gains inside the party I might considering renewing my party membership that I let lapse after RDN took over

I'm hopefull about left renewal but from what I understand it's pretty much only in the nsw branch of the greens. Not aware of anything they're doing in Victoria. Would still be worth getting organised in a socialist party as well as them.

makes sense I guess, the NSW Greens were always the branch with all the old ex-MLs that upset the libs so much

Ah yes the """left wing"""

Is this true? Will SAltie bitches try to sleep with me if I say i'm interested in joining up? Where do I sign up

it isn't?

Anyone else know much about the CPA or CPA ML?
I think they look pretty good based on their history in the labour movement and I particularly like writing from the CPA-ML but don't know how much they are up to today, it seems like they might have stronger working class links than most other groups in this country.
I'm not even an ML strictly nor have I actually got much experience with leftist groups they look like potentially the best option other than maybe Socialist Party.


a newspaper publisher owned by a bourgie

the Greens for aging hippies and twelve year olds who like Cuba


then there's SAlt, who generally speak for themselves if you've met them. both me and my sister were in it at some point, I since have wanted little to do with Trotskyism. it has some serious activists and people in it who are fucking legit, but this is probably the same for most of the other shitty left groups in Australia. good luck having your own opinion in SAlt imo.

if you don't want to join Trots or MLs and you're not going to fall for the Greens/Sex Party bourgeois parliamentarism meme, I don't know what options you have left in terms of groups to join.

I'm considering joining the new fast food and retail union and ditching the SDA, but my feelings about unions are mixed as I move further to left communism. unfortunately, the traditional labour unions are where a lot of the struggle is in Australia.

there are also single issue protest groups out there you may be interested in, depending on how ideologically inclined you are to participate, those aren't hard to find.

I have no idea who actually identifies as antifa here or what they get up to, aside from the odd clash that's received coverage in the media, but I do know a few kids here who claim to have gotten into stoushes with UPF at demos.

Why is that?

I rarely ever see them and it seems to be a typical oldschool CP, mostly a bunch of old guys with questionable politics who haven't given up on it yet.

*Kronstadts you*

Fair enough, but from what I've heard SAlt might be the most meme socialist group in Australia, most of the stuff about them in this thread sounds pretty bad does it not? unless people are mistaken.

I guess its a good thing the greens don't take such a staunch stance on party discipline as some of us might like to?

It's a black armband view of history. keeps us from progress
its like saying "ayy lmao we want to progress forward but fuck you for what you did 200 years ago"

The term is a little provocative though not untrue, I can see the divisive potential even though that exists even with Australia Day.
How would you feel though about simply changing the date of Australia Day?
That isn't like "fuck you for what happened 200 years ago" just "fuck what happened 200 years ago and fuck celebrating it"

But thats not true, we arent celebrating us invading its a day to celebrate being an Australian.

How about cerebrating that on a different day? one that doesn't for some open wounds about colonialism which is still an ONGOING process

Maybe, but it is a major part of Australian culture, and what other day with historical significance would we celebrate? Maybe the federation of Australia because thats a little less British (Republic when?)

for CPA-ML join spirit of eureka, majority of the members are in that, they don't have any membership from my knowledge due to the fact they are extremely paranoid about asio

Join the ASF-IWA

Is it a social club for uni students?

Anarchists are your best bet if you don't want to be with trots or MLs and haven't settled for Socialist Party yet, who are decent trots.
There is an IWW in addition to the ASF-IWA.

not that user, but i personally couldn't care less when it is and as far as I can tell the only people who give a shit are the sort to call in to talkback radio or write letters to the editor in the Australian.

it's a meme day that's only been held as a national holiday since 1994 anyway. might be nice to move it to that public holiday deadzone in September - December. maybe call it "whitefellas better be real sorry and nice to blackfellas day". who gives a fuck

Good enough reason for me to support it.

'black armband view of history'? gb2 Holla Forums with this Liberal Party approved horseshit.

from what I saw, they seem to fetishize being loud and in people's faces, it's a bit cringeworthy but the people who are generally the loudest about SAlt seem to be the most rightwing and just hate Trots in general. their relationship with the soft left (Young Labor and idpol types) on campuses tends to be turbulent. on the other hand, many criticisms of them are probably legitimate imo, including accusations of cult-like behaviour.

if you've heard of Duncan Hart in regards to the abolition of the Coles retail EBA recently, he's in SAlt. they seem somewhat active in unionism and single issue campaigns, and put on a whole conference for left wing politics during Easter every year. I wouldn't say they're not a serious group or can just be ignored, if that's what you mean.

one criticism of them that's definitely legitimate, which strangely enough doesn't come up as often as others, is that they'll sign up anyone who sort of agrees with them (the Trotskyist 'revolving door' recruitment policy). I don't expect this has gotten any better since they diluted their politics to allow the RSP to merge with them. they do make reasonable attempts to educate new members from what I saw, but it was mostly stuff published by them or the SWP rather than original Marxist texts or widely read and acclaimed guides to Marxist theory.

Dick Christmas, fucking classic.

on the subject of left groups you could talk to, I should also add that a friend linked me to a few articles on anarchist/syndicalist groups here in the eastern states who were active in class struggle against fast food employers. I'll try dig them out of the chat logs if anyone's curious.

I'd be keen to read that stuff


only peripherally related to the OP and more so to this post, but it's interesting how many terrible deals exist like this, including many holdovers from the WorkChoices era, affecting low paid workers. the RAFFWU (the new union started by Hart, Kelly, and Cullinan) has some links shedding some light on them on their website, and the issue has received a bit of attention from the media in the form of more than a handful of articles lately.

Eh, i just feel if we bring up racial shit its just gonna cause more shit. what happened in the past happened in the past, we cant change that, we have apologised. what else should we do.

Most socialists ARE patriots in a way, i mean we do want to benefit our countries and the world around us, right? it just deviates from standard patriotism that we hate how it is now. (I love Aussie culture for example and how much we fucking exemplify a workers culture, even one of our national anthem candidates was about a fucking thief). I don't think i'm the best nor do i think Australia is the ultimate country, i just like what we have.

Thanks for the appreciation on the Dick Christmas thing, (If you don't get why its Dick Christmas its because Natale basically translates to Christmas in Italian i think)

I don't know if you've studied Aboriginal health in any capacity, but you've probably heard of the Close The Gap initiative. it was launched back in 2007 to counter massive discrepancies between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal health, e.g. they die on average around 7 years before everybody else in Australia. since then, iirc they've hardly succeeded in reaching any of their targets. it was on the news just the other day that they're still not on track this year either.

given the fact that Aboriginal people still suffer from a lot of racism (they seem to be the one group that it's most acceptable to be racist towards here, even for people who call others out for being racist to Asians or Africans), suffer much worse circumstances socioeconomically overall, and are still having their land taken and exploited by big capital, anti-racism is obviously still relevant.

yeah, but I don't pick and choose who I want to stand in solidarity with based on ethnic characteristics. I feel exactly the same way about Australia as you do, but if I met someone from another country today who criticized the awful history of colonialism here, I wouldn't get defensive in the slightest. being proud of an arbitrary national identity is exactly what Stirnerites would call a spook.

heh, yeah, it took me a moment. I've never heard anyone call him that before, shit's good.

Of course, i'm not picking and choosing who i stand in solidarity with, i just think the whole invasion day thing is stupid and is too focused on the past then present. Black struggles should focus on the Close the Gap, not that a single day of the year which has nothing to do with the actual colonisation other then the date is incredibly offensive.

Absolutely lad, up the southern cross and the eureka!

IWW is some regional outpost and pretty sure has no activity whatsover. Im in adl so idk

tfw eureka was originally anti-nationalist