Is leftism actually on the rise?

Hello, Holla Forums

Sup brudder

Why doesn't anyone want to organize Proletariat, seize the means of production and build Communism?

What is this obsession with students?

Punch a liberal is a go

People are stuck in a different century

the student of today is the worker of tomorrow
if you can implant class consciousness before they even hit the workforce that's great

I'm afraid Porky will just co-opt this leftist surge, like he always does.

You've been brainwashing kids in schools for nearly 60 years now and what has it gotten you?

That wasn't real Islam tho

What means of production? The West is nothing but service economies now.

Trump/Brexit wouldn't have won in 2008. They did win in 2016. Why would this have happened if leftism wasn't shrinking relative to its enemies? Sure leftism might be growing in numbers, but if the right wing is growing faster, and has more people actively voting for it, that suggests to me that leftism is on a downward trend in general.

Especially when you look at other parts of the world. America and Europe used to pride themselves on being the all-powerful bastions of liberalism. Now Trump's in the whitehouse getting friendly with Putin, Europe is swinging right hard against the migrants, east Asia is pretty much going full Nazi (Duterte, Japan), and the only major communist country, China, is about to be BTFO by its economic bubble bursting. I'd say worldwide the power is very much in the hands of the right, especially the Trump-Putin axis, and it's still trending that way. We're about to see a string of right-wing parties elected in Europe and possibly the fall of the EU, by definition a communistic collective. How against this evidence can we say leftism is on the rise by any meaningful measure?

No, the student of today is fucked and being sold degrees in garbage and training for non existent jobs.

Who says we don't, we have this problem of identity politics today, because we let the academics poison the minds of people for decades removing class consciousness from society. The malaise of higher education needs to be addressed alongside the class struggle.

Nope, just Liberals moving slightly more to the left. Actual leftist principles like the abolition of private property are still seen as insane and evil by virtually everyone.

It never was non porky to begin with, the left has to stop thinking that every liberal dissaffection with the current system is almost socialism.

plz it's mainstream shit

youtube.com/watch?v=RyO_0v0umLk

Nazbol gang where you at? This is our time.

Then you need to talk to him tomorrow.

5.000 workers of Tesla, for example. Not even unionized properly.

Fighting Superstructure doesn't work.

Let's say I have 100m^2 of land on which I grow vegetables for my family, and a gun. I say the land is my private property and you can't use it. What do you do? Cry?

We don't care because we don't care about personal property. Socialists are not coming for your house and garden

That's personal property, dumdum.

And mindlessly attacking the base while subsequently ignoring the contradictions effecting society doesn't work either. The understanding of the class struggle needs to go under constant analysis to understand what issues need to be addressed.

I really think that distinction should be part of the FAQ

Yes, its corpse fumes are on the rise since the appearance of hillbotism.

So if I had 1000m^2 and I grew, say potatoes, and traded those potatoes to other people around my community for the goods they specialised in… maybe got some local lads to help me pick them in return for a few sacks each… then you'd come for me?

Yeah, along with clarifying that we are not liberals. Those two are the most common misconceptions for newcomers here

Socdem is definitely on the rise, along with altright-faggotism. so not exactly. Leftism is seeing a bit of a bump, but I think most people who call themselves left would hardly support a revolution if it came down to it, and many wouldn't want to get rid of private property of peti-bourgs "But Nancy and Greg are so nice, and their Mom 'n Pop store is so quaint =3 "

What are you talking about specifically? I smell straw.

Let me give you a hint: it's not traps in bathrooms.

Can you go and read something? Because what you'll get shot over will be your obnoxiousness.

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Ignoring the dialectical relationship between the base and the superstructure is idiotic, that's what I'm saying.
Ironic, I smell straw too now.

Yes, yes, very subtle. Now go hang yourself already.

You read a book. Oh look, we're making non-arguments.

If you can't discuss your ideology without getting sneery and more-educated-than-thou maybe that's why leftism is dying out, you narcissistic retard.

Ultimately serving the bourgeois. If the majority stopped serving them the means by which they acquire their luxuries is halted.

Well, the same arguments apply to both

That's theory. I'm asking about specifics. You can differentiate between reality and abstract thought, can't you?

You are not asking about ideology. You being deliberately obtuse. There is not "this much square meters is too much" ideology.

Singapore-based Socialism will not let you have even 100 m^2, while Greenland might not care if you have 100 km^2

dude cultural marxism lmao

Yes, regressivism is on the rise.

I'm aware it's not solely based on land area, obviously. I'm asking what IS the rule? Who are you coming for? Would I, as a small vegetable producer in a community who traded his goods and employed local labour, be counted as one of your bogeymen capitalist class?

That depends on your and the "lads" relationship to the means of production. If you were to claim all the land for yourself and would extract value from the surplus labor of the workers, then yes, we would come for you or rather in a socialist society such a form of organization would not be possible in the first place because nobody would recognize your claim of the land (or means of production).

Oh shit the goyim are on to us!

I don't think you understand where you are.
Brexit is leftist
there are very few examples in history when left won in bourgeois elections (I can recall only one, there might be more), there is nothing out of ordinary with that.

This is quite leftist, mass immigration where you don't care if the person is valuable or criminal is good only for bourgeois
There is not socialism in china atm, but I must admit I pray every day that their capitalist economy burst so they could go back on socialist track.
It is since fall of soviet union, which is a few decades now.
tbh a little afraid of raise of fascists
I hope so
how is collective based on enforcing laws in favour of bourgeois "communistic"? please, explain.
I don't think we can say it right now. What we need to do is now is spread propaganda and be prepared to take power when right fuck up our lives too much

There is no rule. There is common sense.

During Civil War against Fascists even alliance with Capitalists is possible, while during famine even selling your own crops might be enough to get shot for illegal food speculation.

Not a priority. First are bankers and monopolists. Even Soviet crackdown on kulaks is greatly exaggerated - it wasn't about rich peasants.

However, this:
Will put you on a list - "at some point someone gotta talk to him". As a rule, only cooperative work should be used. I.e. expect some regulations about hiring people.

*sigh*

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No, but that terminology is largely outdated anyways. Marxist terminology deals with Marxist times. When you see people here talking about porky it's mostly memes in the first place. The modern equivalent to capitalists would probably be shareholders and owners of (multi)national corporations, bankers, oil tycoons and so on. You get the idea.

Sure, let's talk about how our culture has produced this sort of division between physical and mental labor as being more high-minded than the other. Let's talk about how the MSM has been pushing the belief of rural class workers being uneducated, and reactionary; whereas the urban population and liberals are often seen as more intellectual, and hard-working compared to their blue-collar counterparts. Or, I don't need to go far in addressing the race-baiting that the Spectacle produces in our society, along other divisions.

u wot m8? Every fucking commie I know IRL or ML on the internet is against it

Ok. So we have your socialist society where nobody recognizes claims on land. Let's say I'm not extracting value from the workers because we live in a community where mutual benefit is gained by all from the growing of potatoes and other fruits and vegetables by other farmers. I'm not claiming the land personally, but amongst the 150 or so of us who live around my small rural village there's a general sense of "this area of land that we all work on and share is our livelihood and we depend on it".

Now let's say 50 people turn up out of nowhere. They want to walk in the fields around the village (that we definitely don't own) where we grow our crops and pick them to eat. We know if they do, our kids will go hungry in the winter. Obviously, we are forced by human nature to lay claim to the land and stop these newcomers taking all our hard-earned produce.

Can you see how nobody recognizing claims on any land is pure fantasy? This would happen all over the country as soon as "no mans land" was declared. People would be FORCED to claim and defend land just to feed their families.

ML is against Capitalist states, but the question here is about one specific case.

And Brexit by itself is neither left nor right.

That's not what I said. Reread again. In the socialist society nobody would recognize your claim to the means of production in order to extract value from the surplus labor of your workers. If you want to claim land for yourself to build a house on and be self-sufficient that is alright. Or claim land to produce goods to sell in order to support yourself. This is a stupid analogy by the way since we don't live in the 19th century anymore but whatever.

I did. In the post you replied to, you literal child.

Great. You sound like you'd be great lawmakers. Excuse me while we don't let you try that brilliant idea out on our countries. I wonder why the left is dying out…

Well, I get a very vague idea o how you'd go about the revolution. What I don't get is an action plan, or a clear vision of what a socialist society would actually practically look like, backed up with rational facts and reasoning, and economic logic.

I'm starting with food because that's the first thing a society has to produce. If you can't get it right, enjoy starving to death. Also after we hit peak oil our societies will be forced to revert to rural-majority populations.

That's because you have read zero literature. I believe there is a thread pinned here right now if you're interested.

There are many different action plans, which is why so much sectarian infighting exists. Pick your poison. What we all can agree on though is the fundamental principles on which society should be erected, which is described in basic Marxist theory.

We are. Circumstances determine the laws necessary. Not dogmas.

The point is that you'll eventually be forced to become pragmatic about things - once shit hits the fan.

Come on. That's our natural state. Left was considered dead in 19th century. Why do you think all the haunting?

Step one: government fucks up. utterly
Step two: anarchy
Step three: evil commies kick people around until order is restored.

Overall? No, it's been fucked harder then a Vietnamese prostitute during the war, it will take time to recover from the tantrum. The Hard left? Yes it's gaining traction, same thing with the far right under the nigger, I hope the hard left continues to rise, accelerationism is the only way fascism can be resurrected.

But basic Marxist theory was followed by the USSR, and it collapsed. Venezuela follows it, look at the state of it today, also heading for collapse.

What I'm saying is you can't win with an ideology that's been percieved as failing hard in the past, by telling everyone new to it "oh you just need to read all these books, THEN you'll get it". It sounds analogous to "indoctrinate yourself into our cult, THEN you'll believe it".

You have to admit, even if you're right and socialism really is the answer, you're arguing from a pretty weak position in the public's minds. If it was that good and that powerful and that right, surely leftypol would find it pretty easy to say

The best ideas are simple to convey.

What you get instead coming here is ad-hoc half answers to specific questions and "go and read all of our literature". Don't complain when nobody is getting your message.

Wrong. After 1956 USSR went Revisionist.

I.e. "basic Marxist theory" was declared outdated and was not followed - hence all the arguments about "true" Marxism.

The basic message is easy to convey and is being communicated right now to the people. Even if it is through social democracy, class consciousness is raised.

What you're looking for is an argument though and that requires theory, no matter your political spectrum. If you were to want to understand fascist or liberal organization, you would need to read theory as well. Otherwise the only thing that can be easily communicated are the basic ideas on which the respective ideology builds on.

I agree and most of us are aware that our public image has its problems. Leftist theory also analyzes why attempts in the 20th century to abolish capitalism have failed and present their answers depending on who you listen to. There is no absolute consensus. However, you must also realize that you're writing from the perspective of someone part of American liberal society. Decades of propaganda have formed the opinions of your people. Personally I'm from Germany and socialism is a valid position here and we have two parties that are economically on the left spectrum, the left-wing of the SPD and Die Linke. There are many more countries in which these image problems don't exist either. Post people of the former Soviet Union for example are still sympathetic towards it and do not believe the fall of the USSR improved their lives.

electing Trump wasn't a good move for you then.

normies will be gulaged REEEEEEE

For the past 15 years the US has been in perpetual war. The financial crash was ten years ago too and the economy still hasn't recovered despite record breaking corporate profits. Even still, it's after 8 years of Obama and all of his broken promises. The fact that the government spent more in an hour of bombing Libya–a country that we had nothing to do with and no reason to interfere with–didn't go unnoticed either.

So now, when people under 30 have spent the majority of their lives in a country ruined by war and capitalism, where they are poorer than their parents, but despite all this incredible wealth services are being cut, and programs are being cut, access to welfare is being cut, people can't get decent health insurance, and all that is available are piece of shit minimum wage jobs despite doing everything that they were told to do–study hard, go to college, get a degree–where they're treated like disposable pieces of fucking crap by their cock sucking bosses and still don't get benefits and still don't get health insurance, finally someone comes along that tells them that they're right in thinking they're getting screwed only to watch as he's sabotaged again and again by the same wretched cunt that helped get them into this mess in the first place, and then has the unmitigated fucking gall to lose to a coked up clown of a human being–yeah, people are pissed off and they're looking for solutions in the only natural place for pissed off working class people to look: the left, because they don't want us to have it, so even if socialism was fucking poison we'd take it just so long as it fucking spited every last one of those rich fucking cunts.

Unfortunately, yes. Which means communism is going to stay dead for at least a few more decades.

Shut the fuck up and read you worthless simpleton.

That's just liberalism.
I was this euphoric during 2011, when our country made some bad education reforms. Lots of people on the street.
But then the government made some special amends to satisfy their particularly special needs and from one moment to the next they fucked off, never to be seen again and everything was the same.

Can someone explain to me, why Jeb is a meme?

In Sweden and such, the right wing party is gaining power thanks to the left letting letting in shitskins no limits.

Capitalism will always remain.

I understand what you're trying to say here user, but that's just flat out wrong.

I'm afraid that absolutely every idea that involves change will meet resistance, no matter how perfectly rational and moral it seems. See slavery and universal suffrage, for example.

University = bourg reproduction facility
Students = bourgs under cultivation
The earlier their growth into bourgs can be interrupted/misdirected, the less powerful bourgs they will be.

Ownership is a social construct. Your supposed natural rights to accumulate are exactly as real as other people say they are. If most people believe that excluding them from "your" plot of land is a crime against humanity, they're right and you're dead. To paraphrase Planck, society advances slowly, and by mass grave.

lmao nancy and greg are the only ones running the store. how are they bourgeois?

No

David Duhalde, the DSA's deputy director, explains that the organisation's membership has soared to 16,000, more than doubling since May 2016.

LOL, you couldn't win a county election with that.

Leftism is still irrelevant in the real world, unless it's DemSoc but you're all babies about actually winning.

this

Good one

the fire only rises

sorry forgot this
is 4U

It mostly started as the "would you go back in time to kill hitler" thing.

Great then we all die from either the coming ecological disaster or a nuclear war over petty
imperialistic aspirations

That depends. Ask yourselves these questions

Do they wish to seize the means of production?

Is their mean goal to seize the means of production?

Are these marches and protests about seizing the means of production?

I'm going to say no to all of the above and it's all motivated entirely by liberal idpol.

I wish that was true

So what you`re saying to me all the schools with teachers protesting and all this shit on the streets…
its IDPOLers taking LEFTYwave, not real lefties?

you do recognise that trump's win is just class consciousness manifesting in response to neoliberalism right?

Partly. There's massive amounts of idpol for Republicans involved though.

I think there's a lot of people moving in both directions right now. Many opponents of Trump are moving left for sure (though there's definitely plenty of neoliberal dipshits who are determined to stay exactly where you are) but at the same time, I think Trump is moving a lot of already right leaning people farther right. Lots of previously "moderate" republicans are fine going along with whatever Trump says simply because he's a Republican so as Trump's policies get more authoritarian so will the ideology of these people.

but i feel recreational psychadelic use is

It's likely, but I doubt the far right will gain much traction, given their autistic nature which they revealed in HWNDU

It's actually on a steep decline. What you're seeing is a well organized establishment lash out as the populace turns on it.

Right, it wasn't the Leftists chanting at a wall for hours on end that looked bad, it was the so-called "far right" trolls.

Leftists aren't liberals, idiot.

I know a bunch of idiots, some even right wing, who recreationally take psychedelics and just have either a fun or a not fun day or evening.

Psychedelics shouldn't be approached recreationally, and thinking that recreational psychedelic use will make a certain political ideology go on the rise is silly. If it did we'd be in hippie utopia right now in the USA.

There were only 8,400 Bolsheviks in 1905.

Not only are those far more than you have today in any given country but they were also better educated as well as organized.
However i do agree with the idea behind your post.

Most of the Bolsheviks at that time were industrial workers and uprooted peasants.

Your point?…

They were hardly the intelligentsia. Unless you mean more educated and organized in the sense of being in a Leninist vanguard party, in which case, fair enough.

*tips*

All I see are liberals

Not fedora, they were actually uneducated in the classical sense.