Holy shit those motherfuckers are literally doing it again. I can't believe nobody talked about this. I had to learn about it from a fucking comedy show.
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Wow. Going to war with Iran would be a disaster. We don't need anymore wars.
I don't mind this to be entirely honest
Yea, let's not do this.
I don't even give a fuck anymore. Fuck Iran and fuck white people
HOW MANY MORE HAVE TO DIE
But seriously though, do you think the public will just go along with this? I am fervently anti-smashie but I'd risk my life to make sure this war doesn't happen
If they try this shit the anti war movement will be massive
Of course Trump would go to war with Iran why is anyone surprised by this.
Yeah just like the anti Iraq war marches which achieved nothing
Sure. They'll protest and all that, but in the end they'll obey because legitimately resisting the government is too dangerous for most people to consider.
Trump bans Middle Eastern nationals from entry.
Saudi Arabia not on the list.
9/11 hijackers were Saudis.
if there is a war let's invest in Lockheed martin and the like and use the profits to advance socialism
I'm angry as fuck. I didn't't imagine it'd go this far and I naively thought that people had learned from Iraq. I pray it will get blocked in the house or congress
It's a different ballgame this time tbh. We have the internet to organize and it's common knowledge Iraq was a big mistake
You're in hell, your prayers are useless here.
Looks like we better prepare for a new Truthers movement.
iraq was not well defended in 2003, iran is
gonna love that left-wing youtube clickbait
They won't achieve anything at first but when the war turns into vietnam two: this time it's mountains and literally the entire political spectrum hates us that won't last
You're also forgetting it was two years after 9/11 and we were all profoundly spooked
im glad iran will be destroyed along with their retarded fascist government
Ehh… But we know how incredibly compromised and COINTELPRO the liberal left is, any resistance will just turn into a SJW shitfest and it certainly won't involve direct action, as says people won't do anything that actually stops the war machine from operating.
Stop being contrarian for one day. This is my demand.
What's to stop them from rigging a 9/11 v2? Alternatively they could just wait for an ISIS shoot em up and then claim the shooter was a Persian terrorist?
Iran has 80 million people, about a fourth the US's population. They can't seriously believe this would go as smoothly as past regime topplings.
The neocons are insane and they don't care how many people will die
You're right, it will probably destroy a good part of America's military capacity… Then there's even more of an excuse to buy new shit from defense contractors! The deep state don't care about anything but money
FWIW, we already had Iraq 2.0
But yeah I know what you mean
It isn't about things going smoothly. If the regime changes
If it gets bogged down into hellish assymetrical warfare
Even more money
If it causes more reactionary terrorist groups
Defense industry gold
They know it won't go smoothly.
Bill sponsor is a Democrat actually. Close ally of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
Those Democrats sure learned their lesson from George McGovern.
They didn't even bother to change the script
good news for mexico though
the us can't fuck around in the sand box and the cactus fields at the same time
Why am I not surprised
It is literally impossible for the US to invade and occupy Iran the way they did with Iraq and Vietnam. The Iranian people are pretty much uniform in their hatred for America, anyone even whispering about collaborating would get their throat slit immediately. On top of this, the Iranian military are probably the world's masters of asymmetrical warfare, having personally trained and funded Hezbollah. Anything Hezbollah can do (kick the IDF's ass TWICE), the Iranians will do too.
Thus, the only options for the USA are either total annihilation of Iran, or more impotent posturing and dickwaving.
keep this bumped
They can create a narrative in which Iran is to blame for some ill and use it as justification.
They did it with 9/11. Saddam had nothing to do with the attacks. He didn't have any WMDs. And yet none of that mattered.
Reality is completely irrelevant; they can invent their own narrative.
Watch HyperNormalisation; it's a BBC doc by Adam Curtis that came out in October of last year (before Trump won, although unlike everyone else at that time Curtis didn't count him out). It's kind of long (nearly 3 hours!) but I highly recommend it.
(That has a few minutes missing, presumably to fool copyright bots. You can download an uncut version somewhere, I'm sure. Or you can watch it legit on BBC iPlayer if you live in the UK/have a UK VPN.)
Doesn't iran have a defense treaty with china?
Honestly I just want our society to reset back to sticks and stones. AnPrims were right.
The invention of the spear was a mistake
Literally all development of any kind is a meme
Sentience is an evolutionary cul-de-sac.
Don't know off the top of my head, but China wants Iran to be stable because Middle East stability will ensure the success of their New Silk Road plan, so anything Trump does to fuck with Iran is going to piss off China, and Russia too. Plus he might still declare war on Mexico, because he's just that kind of guy.
This poster is right. Iran fought Iraq, which at the time had US support, to a standstill despite having significantly inferior numbers of soldiers, tanks and aircraft, and Iran is a great deal stronger now than they were back then.
hahahaha you think that makes a difference? it doesn't. unless you're gonna hack the govt and cause catastrophic damage.
stop with the false flags
if the us beat iran and set up bases there then there will be an easy route into china for the us
And they're moving closer to Russia as well due to both countries backing Assad in Syria.
If the US really does invade Iran there is almost no scenario where it doesn't spiral out into WW3.
Hope you're ready for the lmaos
Iraq 2 should never have happened.
They should have got China to deal with North Korea
YES DO IT YOU RETARDED LIBERAL SHITS
Yes indeed, Iran has probably the most powerful army in the middle east, and as many mountains as Afghanistan. they can also protect most of their coast by their control of the strait of homuz.
It seems that the stategy is, and the aumf refers to, an air campaign which involves destroying Iranian nuclear infrastructure, which the US and Israel are able to do.
I had considered a situation like this about a week or so ago and couldn't seem to come up with a good answer. If the US were to go to war with Iran and calls upon the draft to get enough men to make it feasible, what should I even do?
My first thought was dodge, but I don't really have secure enough financials yet to just up and leave the country while being able to sustain myself abroad.
I could suck it up and take the prison sentence, but prison now isn't what it was back when people were getting booked on the Espionage Act back in WWI; it's less humane and more likely to put you toe-to-toe with the worst of the violent offenders if the charges are federal. It will be just my luck that I end up in a private prison too which has the intent to keep me filling space on their roster for as long as possible.
I could sign on as a conscientious objector, but the only reasons that I can give any verification to are political and putting those political affiliations on public records could easily blacklist me from basically all public employment, which takes a SIZABLE chunk of employment opportunities out from under my feet given my area of study.
Or I just let myself get deployed. On the one hand I get battlefield experience, but on the other hand it is done at the expense of terrorizing and likely bordering on committing genocide in occupied territory.
There's no fucking good answer.
t-this is accelerating too fast
ok,so where the fuck do they even invade from?As pic related shows they border pretty much mostly anti American or neutral to America countries.Turkey seems like the obvious answer to a land invasion but that whole area is mountainous as fuck and really infrastructural undeveloped.They could attempt to send in the fleet into the Persian gulf but it's narrow and defensible as well as easy to cut the American fleet off.Pakistan is 'officially' with America but I doubt they would let the US army base an invasion out of their country,and even then you've got the problems of a hot dry mountainous region.
literally everywhere, have you ever seen where US bases are located?
they have to move soldiers from said bases into Iran,last I checked they don't have teleporters so would need to base out of a neighbouring country to establish a foothold.I'm aware of American bases around the world but they aren't on the Iranian border nor are they big enough to be used as a primary staging point to invade Iran
Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Afganistan are all basically US puppet states.
You could get drafted and act as batshit insane crazy as you can to get thrown out on mental issues as a last ditch effort
fam come to mex to teach english I'll hook u up
the most likely routes fo an american invasion of iran are through afganistan, turkey and iraq.
the invasion of iran itself would be a fucking nightmare since they have been beefing up their military since iraq including geurrrilas for the inevible occupation. It would also have fuck huge implication for the world economy when iran starts firing its asslod of anti ship missiles into the persian gulf.
Christ,I didn't even think of the shipping and the impact that would have on the world oil markets.Iraq,Iran,Kuwait,Bahrain Qatar and the UAE all must do all international shipping via the Persian gulf.Even if the Saudis massively increase oil production the price of oil will shoot through the roof
I have Crohn's disease, so no branch of the military would want me. I'm safe.
I am worried about my little brother, who'll be turning 18 later this year.
NO SLOWING DOWN
Tell him not to sign up for selective service when the letters come. I think it might be technically illegal but they never prosecute and just depend on people doing it voluntarily. If he is never in the system he can never be drafted.
But let's be serious, unless mainland US is being invaded another draft is never going to happen. Military warship and patriotism is way to high for it to ever be needed. If the US is having too much trouble they're just ramp up the propaganda and start offering more bonuses.
Self-harm is a good way. I heard of a guy who successfully 4Fed himself by eating poisonous plants on the way to his intake physical and survived to tell the tale. Don't try that at home without really knowing your stuff.
Also why the monarchs on the Persian Gulf are so hell-bent on breaking Assad's dick to get him out of the way of "their" pipeline to the EU.
I'm advising that but Mom might try to get him to. She's massively underestimating how fucked things are getting.
It's funny - literally the day after the election she talked about how she was worried about the draft coming back, but now she's totally normalized Trump. Typical liberal stuff.
You could pull a Ted Nugent and shit yourself for a week.
Iraq is basically a US military gateway at this point.
Turkey will still do whatever the US says to do when the US starts actually pulling its weight around.
Afghanistan's still very heavily full of US bases.
Saudi Arabia is a US puppet state given free reign.
The only borders Iran has that aren't chock full of burger is the Pakistani and Turkmenistani ones. And I don't really know enough about Turkmenistan to say they wouldn't let the US through.
The US is going to have plenty of access through the Gulf too.
Try to explain to her in very visceral terms what would happen if he was drafted and then sent off to war, and ask her if she wants that to happen to her son because she's so paranoid that they'll lock someone up for not complying to automated letters or so spooked by the government that it's his duty to kill himself for their whims.
Most of their nuclear infrastructure is far enough under mountains that we'd probably have to use nuclear bunker busters ourselves to know for SURE we'd gotten it.
How many "civilian casualties" will be done?
Place your bets now.
I think not a lot, but with a very high percentage of academics, because they might be nuclear scientists.
This may cripple their universities and their educational system, resulting in less scientific competition with the west. But that's a good thing for the US.
Will this actually happen, though
Its not happened yet. Just proposed.
Is there any chance that Hezbollah would be able to join the fight? I can't imagine they would take kindly to an assault on their patron.
No, it's more Israel look at me from a Congressman, they haven't even tried to repeal the Iran Treaty yet, that would be the first step don't you think?
Everyone in the middle East is going to be involved tbh
I'm not surprised since an oil producing Iran cuts into Russia's profits
Some of those idiots really believed the US Army would be greeted in Baghdad as heroic liberators. There's no bottom to the well of American delusion.
It would be perfect. A coup d'état would then take place by secular forces of Iranian society. One less theocratic country in the world.
because a coup happened when the US rolled into iraq, a far more unstable country.
The entire political spectrum in Iran hates the US (they only have a theocracy because we replaced their mild social democrats with the shah and man are they still fucking glad HE'S gone) so it'd be more likely that it secular forces in Iran would reluctantly give full backing to the regime for the best chances at staving off the US. Then once the regime had "officially" been ousted a few of the many many many guerrilla forces would be secular to start (but almost certainly crowded out by islamist because that's fucking ALWAYS how this goes.)
Go smash up a Starbucks. That strategy has worked well.
There won't be an Iran after this war
Unlike say syria or iraq, the iranian army is both competent and loyal to the regime. The iranians have also been preparing for a us invasion since day one iraq war 2. the iranians used the iraqi war as a sandbox to learn how to effecively fight an insurgency.
Yeah if Bannon decides to start war with Iran we will legit see WW3.
im not sure if it will be WW3 but the invasion and following insurgency will certainly make iraq or even vietnam look like a rowdy sleepover
I'm not sure how it won't be WW3 once Iran immediately proceeds to nuke Israel
Iran proceding to nuke Isreal is why the US has to invade/carpet bomb Iran now or not at all. The funny thing is a nuclear armed Iran is way less likely to get invaded because no one wants to risk someone nuking someone else because it would be a massive blow to what remains of the post ww2 politcal order and open a pandoras box because now that one has been used in anger the doors open to other states using nukes. Thats why both the US and Isreal went so apeshit over iran stopping iran from getting a functional nuke.
This is of course with rational US leadership so i have no fucking clue if this logic still holds with trump in the Whitehouse.
Just like Iraq was going to? Iran has no fucking WMDs
Iraq also had the world's 4th most powerful military at one time
doesn't matter, we still invaded at terrible costs
A FUCKING 4
Of fucking course he would
Underrated b8 post.
Holla Forums sucks Irans dick
Because Iranians are honorary whites?
If Trump attacks Iran it would cause his government to collapse when it inevitably turns into a bloody quagmire.
100% pure-blooded aryans.
Iraq wouldn't be viable, both its government and the Shiite militias are either directly controlled by Iran or heavily influenced by it. If they invade from Iraq they will have to fight a Shia insurgency there as well.
Just like the Nips, don't you know?
this is why we have to shoot the liberals and socdems first
No, because they are one of the few dindu nuffin states and the people are not irredemable retards like the Sunnis, but more importantly they are a balance to Israel and Saudi nonsense.
Evolution is a chemical cul de sac.
Do this, then radicalize the inmates. It's what Jihadi's do to great effect. If ever there were false consciousness, it's in the prisons, among the ethnic gangs.
For once Holla Forums is actually right. They have an educated population that is as cosmopolitan as their religious doctrine allows it and their Persian identity usually prevents them from going allahu snackbar.
They never funded terrorism or invaded anot her country. All they want is to be the middleman between Russia and China and wait for the coming of the 12th Imam.
I don't know, does Trump actually understands that Iran is in Putins team and that Saudi-Arabia is in Clintons team? Has he been compromised or is he just this stupid
I thought the punishment for dodging the draft in burgerland was death? Did they make it less sever?
Of course, they are literally cumholes for daddy Drumpf at this point.
Their contrarianism is a sham (if it wasn't before, it sure is now), literally just blind authoritarians .
The Iran shit is pure political peacocking from Trumps generals, it's a power struggle between the CIA and Trumps team.
Great Persian civilization falls again.
Must be why Trump's doing so well with this one. Even Flynn and the Democrats love his Iran policy.
If anything threatens Israel it would be Saudi-Arabia on steroids. They are just hiding their anti-semitic powerlevel
Because they are Zionists
But why would Trump be a zionist if he's friends with Putin?
You do realize that Ayotollah Khomeini (along with Hafez Al-Assad), helped to pioneer Islamic suicide bombing in the modern era right?
People aren't actually going to support this, are they? There has to be legitimate blood flowing in the streets if this occurs.
facebook friends or friends friends?
Like all things American, it depends on how it's marketed. I would imagine China and Russia would have something to say about it though. I'm not sure what Cheetoman could give them to buy them off though since it would just be one step closer to the US taking both of them down too.
That might be the penalty on paper but things would have to be seriously fucked for them to start executing people for dodging the draft. I don't think they've done that since the Great War.
Yeah I don't think Americans whatsoever would support another ground war. Especially in a ground war in a country like Iran. Doesn't mean the war still won't happen.
Depends on how it's framed
Say tensions continue to increase between Iran and the US, lets say it's over Yemen. This is followed by the CIA, err Iranian terrorists detonating a weapon, be it conventional or NBC in a major American city
Everyone would be calling for blood
Yep, a whole fucking month and the media never said anything about it.
The Democrats are neocons.
First as tragedy, then as farce.
They're really not. Most of them are not even old enough to remember the revolution. Iran is also pretty damn consumerist.
Iran's gonna kick our ass.
yeah i'm actually hoping it happens
would love to see iran wreck americas shit, they don't realize that iran isn't like iraq. it's a much larger nation and literally 100% of the people would side with the iranian government in this situation
would love to see america get btfo for doing colonialism/israel's bidding
Persians are indeed pretty damn white, as far as one can be a member of a particular race anyway. They are probably more closely related to the germanic tribes than the celts are. Have you ever met an Iranian? They are pale and hairy like Parisians.
hoochie, you always know what to say
You first, cunt.
Tbh I don't want anyone in the Middle East having nukes.
GULF OF TONKIN 2.0 tbh, say it with me: "Iranian torpedo boats"
act like a pussy during training till they kick you
If you think that the Iranians have a snowball's chance in hell without nukes, you are deluding yourself. The Americans will have air supremacy immediately which makes armor no better than targets for pilots to practice on. All their heavy equipment will be unusable, and the cities will be impossible to hold.
Fighting spirit and unified hatred counts for all of jack shit when a society loses its ability to produce the materials necessary for war. Everything but the long, bloody clean-up will be over in a week.
Soooo fucking wrong.
When Saudis get F-35s it's over for Iran you know that right kiddo?
see you all on the other end
Oooooh F-35's, scary
just wondering what are Hezbollah capable off in a full scale war with USA?
how strong are they?
It's that much of a game changer. Israelis really don't want Saudis to get them, but they will procure them eventually
How do I filter flags.
just apply marker to the screen
Bullshit. The airframe is way the fuck less important than people who do not know shit about air power realize. What really matters is the weapons and communications systems. Put JTIDS, new targeting radar, and current Aim-120s on a fifty year-old F-15A (of course then it would not be an F-15A anymore, but you get the idea) and you have a completely servicable air superiority platform.
The F-35 is hot garbage. It tries to be absolutely everything to all branches all at once, which is an idea so stupid that only the Pentagon could have conceived of it. Either that, or it is nothing but some senators' pork barrel project.
To all the faggots saying "oh, the US would win", do you really think the US has the will and economy to send occupation troops to a third arab country?
Like Afganistan and Iraq is not enough and Trump already wants to stop messing around with Syria, because economy.
It's not about who wins the war. It's about how you can end the war.
From what I've read it's both
Bush literally did so, Obama sent in his CIA controlled "revolutionaries", what makes you think Trump won't do the same?
Hezbollah are pretty much the greatest guerilla force in the world. In Syria they've behaved much more like a regular army though.
This is a picture of iranian mine sweeper bio-tech, americans will be btfo.
China will not like this.
This is a fucking terrible idea.
I'm going to pray that this is a 3D chess Trump false flag to let Iran release the Hillary docs.
There was the Internet back then and it was probably alot less compromised than it is now. People's addiction to social media will basically lead to them handing over whatever organizational strategy to the government, and retards like you think by using them they are helping instead of hurting
Iran isn't Arab
So all those articles saying that the f35 is a fat, trillion and a half dollar piece of shit are wrong?
Ok. What is it?
Race is a spook anyway
It's a multitool that does nothing good.
holy shit how delusional, saving this. we should catalog all this shit so we can open a museum of retarded people in the future
No, it was a scam operation but the F-35 is the real deal. The Saudis desperately want them.
Jobs, jobs jobs. We're going to create tons of jobs, folks. Fighting Iran will create tons of military jobs. Jobs producing armaments. Jobs killing Iranians. Jobs crushing dissent at home. Jobs putting Muslims in internment camps. There will be so many jobs, you're going to be sick of all the jobs!
t. Donald Trump
Trump's now getting rid of the most ardent anti-war demography: immigrants.
And don't forget all the destroied production that will have to be replaced!!!
Persian is an ethnic group, though.
and this is why race is a spook
Persian/Farsi the language not the ethnicity.
They want the technology more than the plane itself. The real benefit of the F-35 program is all the new technology that can now be stuck in actually good specialized aircraft.
they defeated israel
really strong, plus they'd have support from literally every single person in the region political affiliation's be damned if they went to war with the united states
Q. what are insurgency and counter insurgency
A. What anarchists do for three years before they inevitably die.
Yes. The whole point of an imperialist invasion is to steal the weaker society's shit. Idiots talk about how much money Gulf War II cost American taxpayers, because they don't know the difference between money and critical resources. The whole point of the occupation was to create the glut in the oil market that we are experiencing now.
It's about who controls the critical resources.
hezbollah are also playing a huge part in syria, which they need to travel between iran and lebanon.
helped liberate aleppo's water tank from al nusra and fsa.
amongst other things.
If you are still not for the draft you are not my comrade. Only an army with a popular base can turn against US imperialism.
do you support ISIS in its fight against Western imperialism aswell?
Obviously I don't. What's your point?
There are two options: a mercenary army like we have right now (with no control), or a popular army (like that under Vietnam) that can form a popular will against the establishment. Do you know of any other alternatives? Wasn't Iraq a clear example how a generation that doesn't have stakes in their country killing millions abroad don't fight wholeheartedly against the imperialist machine? Do I need to remind you of how Obama's wars were basically forgotten by millenials?
I'm sorry, you burger cunts, but until there's a draft, all you do is lip-service for the rest of the world, and again, you are not my comrades.
They could certainly do a lot of damage in the inevitable insurgency following a war in Iran.
Can't wait for the meltdowns
top fucking kek
Yes, the Saudis desperately want to give America billions of dollars BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE BRIBE POLITICIANS, not because the planes are actually fucking useful.
After all the shit Trump gave Dubya over his wars, I really hope Trump's supporters will call him out over this.
No non-superpower in the entire world could hope to withstand a US invasion, and Iran is completely surrounded. Of course, the great weakness of the US military, like any modern military, is that it can only effectively fight governments and soldiers, since the only military strategy that works against civilians/guerillas (concentration camps) is now illegal.
Iran has zero hope against a US invasion, but the US also has zero hope of creating anything but another lawless Somalia-tier mess like Iraq and Afghanistan after the current government is deposed.
The moment a draft is seriously proposed, LEAVE. I'm sure Europe will welcome swarms of American rapefugees back to their shores.
Thanks for not including the word "Iran" in your fucking OP anywhere so i fucking accidentally start a new thread on the same fucking topic.
Do you support the USA in "fighting" ISIS, which they created in the first place and still supply through money, weapons and training that "ends up" in their hands through "moderate rebels" "switching sides" while also being allied with establishment-ISIS in form of the Saudis?
Ironically Trump managed to pick our least war-crimey defense secretary in ages so there is that.
ISIS is the bad guys, it's so simple guys. They're literally Hitler, guys, it really is just the same. The USA will fix this, trust me, it's almost like a peoples liberation army. So stop attacking our involvment, you're clearly on ISIS side.
And it's really the best thing you can do. If you attack ISIS all you have to do how much you support our troops in their antifascist fight against the fucking ISIS.
We're not revolutionaries anyway, it's the first world, so why even pretend like we resist? The enemy is abroad! If you're not with us, you're with them!
Mad Dog Mattis?
You mean the one that ravaged Fallujah?
Or say how bad russias involvment is. Anything but exposing your own government!
N-not like there'd be anything to expose though… at least they're fighting for our true revolutionary Rojava!
So yeah, fuck Russia too!
i don't get the joke but if you want to fight ISIS all you have to do is tell the CIA to cancel their support for them.
which he did.
in a pretty impressive speech that probably brought thoughts of the Nuremberg Trials to the minds of those who are involved.
Iran will have superpower support from China and Russia though. They also have their own internal defense industry that produces nearly everything a superpower-tier military could want including anti-aircraft systems they purport to be on par or nearly so with those of Russia, favorable terrain, and some of the best training in the Middle East. This fight wouldn't be nearly as much of a curbstomp as some in here are saying unless the US used nukes, which would trigger a worldwide nuclear war and kill everyone anyway.
Still the least war-crimey defense secretary we've had in ages. Granted that's more from a perspective of "sometimes war crimes aren't particularly useful" than any MORAL reasoning.
Frankly I'm not so sure Russia is REALLY invested in Iran. They're allied of convenience when interests align but Iran is frankly too powerful for "Russian client state" to ever be a possible outcome they'd probably rather pick a side in the aftermath and play kingmaker for the new regime.
China isn't going to do shit, they're economically linked at the hip with the US. Maybe supply some small arms and intel at the very most.
Iran is militarily weaker than numerous countries the US has rolled over like a juggernaut, including Iraq. Neither the US, Russia, China, nor Europe, export the "good stuff" of our avionics industries. That means countermeasures which render our vehicles un-targetable, sensor suites that let us pick off all of theirs at will, and such long range they couldn't even hit us if they could target us. Every post WWII war between a superpower and a non-superpower, without exception, has been a turkey-shoot lasting DAYS.
Remember that the reason we've been blowing trillions of dollars and thousands of lives isn't because of the wars, but the "victories" that drag on for years afterward.
As terrible as the unguided mass bombing of civilian population centers and infrastructure in the last few "police actions" has been, I don't think anybody could get away with literal concentration camps today.
of course there is the issue that iran is part of the iran-iraq-syria-lebanon pipeline, but maybe after years of fighting in syria russians will say "oh well who cares"
the iraq bill was probably just so israel would stop pestering the drumpf, just like the "muslim ban" shut up the nazis who voted for him.
the media is actually helping him in those regards, lel.
let's see if he'll unfreeze the aid for palestine.
Iran is not militarily weaker than Iraq given they kicked Iraq's ass when Iraq was basically at its height.
funny thing is, russian economy is actually growing.
all they need to do now is continue to fight ISIS and other western mercenary armies until the US and EU collapse into civil war.
kinda like the soviet union in ww2.
i wounder though if we are going to get to see Operation Bagration Reloaded before that happens.
Iran drove Iraq out of their country at the height of Iraq's power, and Iran has become much stronger since then. They're now stronger than Iraq was at its peak.
Iran makes their own avionics packages now. They even reverse engineered a captured US drone and are now building their own version of it. No other country the US has attacked post-WW2 has ever done anything remotely like that.
Obama was pissing China off in the South China Sea in the closing months of his term, and Trump is continuing the same policy. If this escalation continues, and there's no reason to suppose it wouldn't, China is likely to send quite a bit more support than just small arms and intel.
Ok lets be honest here, that's not exactly an extraordinary feat.
Persia is not arab.
I can't imagine the countless lives that will be lost in this pointless conflict. Honestly who gives a fuck about all this political bullshit, it's just so terrible
Kek. You realize outside powers were feeding aid to both sides throughout to grind them down, switching emphasis as the balance of power tipped back and forth, both belligerents launched and repelled failed invasions of each others' territory, and the near-decade-long war ended in a stalemate with status quo antebellum?
Iraq had support from the West at the time, so it's not really the same as if Iraq was just fighting on their own. They were receiving Western training and weapons and Iran still beat them.
He's talking about Iran defeating Iraq.
Iraq had a great deal more military materiel than Iran at all stages of the conflict, and Iran didn't even really need to attack Iraqi territory, only to protect their own. That was more of an insult to Iraq than anything else. In the event of a present-day war involving Iran they're going to be receiving much more aid because Russia and China don't want the US gaining ground in the region.
You're aware Iran also received US military aid (some of it funneled through Israel) when Iraq gained too much of an upper hand, right?
Going to need to see some sources on that one. The pro-US government that the US installed in Iran bought a lot of weapons from the US in the early 1970s (and also from as many other countries as they could, especially the Chinese and the Soviets), but the US put the kibosh on Iran's weapons purchases several years before the Iran-Iraq War started, and that was even before the 1979 Iranian Revolution which was decidedly anti-US. The US and especially Israel would have no reason to help Iran in any way after that.
Stop your antiimperialist propaganda, fucking tankie.
Iran is reactionary and deserves it tbh. They're also allied with Russia, who're reactionary too.
It's a win win. Our main enemy is abroad. Fight for Rojava by not fighting "US Imperialism", that's just a spook.
Do the hundreds of thousands (probably million) that will die deserve it too?
Just rude m8, our YPG posters are usually pretty decent.
Nice false flag, tankie
The enemy of our enemy is not our friend. When the rich fight, the poor die.
Bla bla bla, go fuck yourself tankie. We can expand Rojava into Iran and Trump is doing the job for us.
The real enemies are the reactionaries, Putin, Assad and that faggot with his fancy hat in Iran! We can push the revolution and you are crying about some dead casualties in the war? You're such an armchair revolutionary.
Next you're suggesting to take on Trump and the USA and it's military industrial complex, fucking conspiracy theorist authoritarian tankie!
There wont be a revolution in the first world, it has no revolutionary potential, the best thing we can do is promote socialism in Rojava and make Trump our useful idiot.
At least it's fucking up the imperialists Assad, Putin and the other "antiimperialist" authoritarians!
It's not imperialism, they're making revolution in Rojava and it's real socialism! FUCK OFF TANKIE SHILL, i am not a third worldist!
You can't fight USA, so make it fight for us! All you do is siding with Russia and other fascists!
Oh, and I'll add one other point: The obvious reason why Iraq was given more matériel than Iran, was because Iran had more manpower. Both sides were given just enough aid at any point to keep the war going, and ensure that neither would be in any fit state to sweep out and conquer the region.
All of those links show that Iraq received far more support from outsiders than Iran to the tune of billions of dollars' worth, as reflected in Iraq's vehicle numbers. Iraq also had higher manpower than Iran for most of the war, not just vehicles. Whatever help Iran may have been given, it's completely insignificant next to the help Iraq had.
Flynn's being replaced by Petraeus reportedly. This means war with Iran is less likely now right?
Not exactly. Apparently Flynn was being pushed out of the NSC for a couple of weeks now, Bannon is still on it
Bannon's probably more batshit crazy than Flynn
No, it's actually increased
Like Mattis he has a grudge against Iran for backing Shia militias and considers them the number 1 enemy of US interests in the region
The thing is, that's all it needs to do. The Americans could give a fuck less if there are rebels in the mountains killing locals so long as the resources that they came to steal are secure. That is why they never even bothered leaving the cities in Afghanistan. They don't fucking care if the rest of the country is a war zone. All they care about is having bases near the Iranian border.
This isn't 1986, and fighting the 20th Century Iraqis is not even in the same league as fighting the 21st Century Americans is.
Drones, like helicopters, are only useful when you already have air supremacy.
Until China has a consumer base of its own that is large enough to consume all that it produces (look for it in the not-too-distant future), it will not do anything to militarily antagonize the Americans. Both countries are bourgeois, and they both make a fucking fortune through their mutual relationship.
Even if China were to send more sophisticated weapons to the Iranians, what could it send that would make a difference in a very short time frame? The Chinese air force is itself no match for the American air force, even with Chinese crews. How much less use would Chinese aircraft operated by hastily-trained Iranian airmen be?
See: Oliver North
The afghan goverment is US friendly, the population no so much. Also Turkmenistan has a lot of business ties with russia.
how the fuck can anyone be this dumb
They're entire endgame move to surpass the US is predicated on a stable and friendly Iran
The guy who unironically said we should be giving heavy weapons directly to Nusra?
Make yourself visible, then in 10 years you can point yourself out and laugh about how you told them so. You WARNED them dawg.
Possibly just as a worrying sign of how unhinged neoliberal capitalism has made me, In emotional terms I half love wars. They don't effect me, and I get to talk about what a horrible idea they are in the run up - then later either say "I told you so" daily if it's an Iraq, "I told you so" occasionally if it's a Libya, or whistle a bit and wait if it's Syria. None of the suffering influences my daily life, while it becomes fodder to throw at the liberals who backed the war.
Historically I'd probably have said the same about Kosovo, a success - but nobody ever remembers to call you out on it. It's great and risk free. The only reason I hesitate on Iran is because I've some vague sympathy for them as a result of the Iran-Iraq war.
I'm not really such a callous bastard in practice, I mean I don't like suffering and if I felt I helped to stop a war I'd also feel great, but there's something to the idea that cynically it's a win-win scenario unless you find yourself on the other side of something really obvious like WW2. (And even then if you're an appeaser the revisionists will eventually dig up circumstantial evidence to rehabilitate you as a time-buyer.)
yeah because that worked out so well rofl
Genuinely a tempting option.
Iran has nothing to do with Arabia, not in its culture, not in its language, barely in its religion.
I understand what you say about an army with a popular base, and its clear that revolution will only come when the bourgs force the proles into becoming canon fodder for their wars, but a genuine Marxist movement opposes draft. That's like supporting the abolition of labour laws because it will make labour unions stronger and more active. We do it in secret because we're accelerationist but that's it
Is porky really dumb enough to bring it back?
Never underestimate how far they will go to protect their interests. If it comes to it, they will absolutely bring it back, and furthermore, they will trick you into thinking it is a good thing.
Only this time, Iran actually can/tried to build WoMD
Literally no one who isn't full of shit thinks Iran is currently actively pursuing a nuclear weapon. Probably they're pursuing the ability to rapidly shift over to nuclear weapon production if they need to, but probably under the Iranian government's ideal a nuclear Iran is perpetually a year away.
Funny enough all of america and israel's attempts to keep iran from getting the bomb have really only served to make it harder to keep them from getting it if they DO actually start actively pursuing it. Fucking with their nuclear facilities has primarily just resulted in them hardening the fuck out of their nuclear facilities.
If this ends up happening, is there a chance that the Kurds can take advantage of this to form Iranian Kurdistan?
the kurds are just pissed off situationalist iraqis who want autonamy, they aren't leftists. they aren't even socialists. there are literally none of them in syria yet they still claim syrian land.and kiss NATO's ass while tricking gullible idiots like you into buying into "democratic confederalism" ie ethno state america 2.0
kurds are not "heroes" or "good guys who will save the middle east if they are just allowed to take everything over".
There's a good reason every anti-war movement since Vietnam has been weaksauce, and that "rah rah support the troops (who you've never met nor know anyone who has)" works as well as it does. The volunteer military supplemented by 3rd-world Auxiliacontractors is the best thing that ever happened to perpetual war.
Iran has enormous potential for solar, tidal, and wind, in addition to huge amounts of natural gas and coal. Simply put, even moreso than most other countries due to global distrust, there is no reasonable justification for them to pursue something as boneheaded as a nuclear program of any kind other than for weapons (or the plausible threat thereof). If Iran didn't want the heat, they'd just shut the whole thing down.
Even ignoring Rojava, throughout the Cold War the Kurds have historically been the least loathsome faction in the Mideast. But really, much like Saddam's Iraq, I would rather have a stably malevolent Iran under the grip of the Ayatollahs, than a Mad Max ruin of squabbling warlords with a small slice of Kurdistan like Iraq today.
okay george bush, get more simplified worldviews and "middle east info" from your american news channels and deeply ingrained western propoganda
I'm not saying they're not pursuing the POSSIBILITY of nuclear weapons, but the fact of the matter is getting within range of quickly getting a nuclear weapons program is within their rights under basically all international treaties.
(Also, with solar tidal and wind you end up significant downtime and need something much more steady to avoid having to be able to store a full night's power which is really fucking expensive.)
Would they? They might just think America is crazy and want to have the ultimate trump card to fend off what they (justifiably) see as an empire of war-hungry nutjobs.
Name anyone else with their track record of democracy and secularism in the region. Granted, much of it is due to their position as quasi-stateless bottom-bitch, but facts are facts.
Even ignoring near-unanimous consensus for nonproliferation on grounds of realpolitik, Iran is an NNPT signatory, having thus forsaken any "right" to develop nuclear weapons. The damage done to their economy (and the easiest pretext by far for the US to invade them) from anti-nuke sanctions is the price of their willfully antagonistic folly.
(Utility-scale grid storage is so cheap, wind/tidal/solar still undercuts nuclear even with the price of matching storage. And even aside from hydrogen fuel cells, Iran is sitting on enormous compressed air/pumped hydro potential.)
Fuck off buttmad Turk.
The capitalists will sell us the rope.
I can get behind this, navy is socialist as fuck.
No, especially not after Iraq and Afghanistan. But it does bear repeating so all the normies can hear it just how expensive those wars have been (and will continue to be in terms of treating wounded vets).
tbh dubya landing on the aircraft carrier was pretty cool.
are you one of those 'we must (critically) support ISIS in its fight against western imperialism!' people?
America will not attack Iran, even the Trump administration.
Compressed air energy storage (CAES) at utility scale uses cave systems (typically depleted mines, wells, and aquifers) to store pressurized air from pumps on the surface, which is then allowed back out to drive machinery and recover power. It is more efficient than pumped hydro (60%-95%, compared to 50%-80%) especially when combined-cycle (due to heating/cooling), in addition to being less expensive and having little charge decay (as compared to evaporation from hydropower reservoirs).
Such systems are also readily converted to hydrogen storage.
They are not actually developing nuclear weapons yet. They are getting within range of doing so, but getting within range of doing so is not forbidden by the treaty in question.
It won't be America, it'll be Israel. Trump's ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, is a Zionist extremist of the highest order, and Netanyahu slept over at Jared Kushner's house once.
Notwithstanding Trump's feeble remarks about "cutting back" on settlements, this is going to be the most cucked administration in history when it comes to Israel. When Bibi calls up Trump at 3 am to tell him he's about to bomb an Iranian nuclear facility, do you really think anyone in the White House is capable of stopping him?
Retard level prediction. We don't have an industrial base for anything but weapons and if weapons production was an economy-saver the f-35 alone (1.5 trillion) would've given every unemployed american a job. Any benefit to bush era militarist-keynesian job creation was lost in 2008 thanks to porky
Israel's generals will not allow Netanyahu to attack Iran
The first neocons were literally democrats who started to inch across the isle. That's the actual origin of the term
It was even worse than that, actually.