Why are so many new leftists extremely anti arab these days? Is it becouse of western propaganda against legitimate arab goverments such as Gaddafi and Assad?
New anti arab sentiment
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Because it's a retarded religion.
Being an arab dosent mean being a muslim
Ignorance of their history
Kek what are you taking about
I think the only one retarded here is the guy who thinks "Arab" is a religion
Because it can be imperialism even though it's non-western
Most new leftists are either pro kurdistan without knowing that the kurds could give less two shit's about the arabs or pro Israel wich is are extremely anti arab positions.
How is Assad and Gaddafi imperialist?
That overton window thing. Anti Arab sentiment is everywhere so it's going to seep into the left.
most leftists I know are pro Palestine for example.
A lot of them call Gadaffi and Saddam ex-CIA puppets, though.
Im particularly clueless about them
The what now?
Are you blind to the state of the world?
Fucking ISIS man
Well you would expect that the ideology that mostly suported arabs woudent just start going against them.
The world is a confusing place right now
People are confused.
Because they're associated with islam, literally the most popular repressive religion.
Saddam was a US pupet But calling Gaddafi one is complete bullcrap
Again i said anti arab not anti muslim
"Islam is the most regresive religion ever"
Israel kills dozens of muslim children every day and even segregate jews that are not from european origin.
Here lies the problem: there is no such thing. The term "legitimate" in this context is meaningless, as there is nothing that objectively defines legitimacy. You can make arguments based on various ideological frameworks, but then it is important to consider what ideological framework the main claim is being made under.
If we're looking at it through the lens of nationalism (or in many cases in the arab world, pan-nationalism), states like Syria and such are justifiable at least on a base level for those who adhere to such principles as the cornerstone of societal organization. From a historical standpoint however, there isn't really that much of a foundation for the very "nation" they intend to propagate; the whole idea of a united Arab identity (as existing outside of the Arab Peninsula and the surrounding territory) was mostly the result of 19th century attempts by the local ruling classes of the Muslim world to create popular support behind themselves being put into positions of power rather than the Ottomans or Europeans. It was anti-Imperialist, but still the ideology of the ruling class. Of course the left would be opposed to this if alternatives arise: it's still ruling-class domination.
If we look at it through the lens of how the government represents the people and their interests, they fail to achieve any meaningful standing outside of some moderate public infrastructure investments and social safety net measures. It's better than a lot of the alternatives mind you, but it is still very much a class society that has little interest in transitioning out of a class society. A class society cannot serve as an extension of the peoples interest to the point where the legitimacy of the government is derived from the mandate of the masses, as the maintenance of class society itself necessitates some degree of exploitation of those masses. Again, this is why true leftists generally do not and should not be actively supportive of such regimes.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Additionally, not everyone who fails to support your preferred "anti-imperialist" regime is subsequently supportive of "imperialist" ones; one can hold equal disdain for the likes of Israel and Palestine.
Fuck off retarded Mautist
i don't know any leftists who are anti arab, where i live racists are not considered leftists.
we do have a movement of CIA sockpuppets called the Anti-Germans who are anti arab and pro israel and try to infiltrate the left scene but everyone who knows anything about them disregards their opinion.
maybe some of the more retarded leftists fell for all the anti-muslim propaganda and became nazi. btw the propaganda isn't just directed against governments, in 2012 or so bots started to invite people to islamophobe google+ groups.
The predominant Sunni Arab mentality at the moment is toxic and regressive. It's not a racial thing and leftism in the Arab world was quite healthy not so long ago, but it needs to be recognised all the same. You can't talk about this things without being called an Orientalist though.
Seriously while I know few people that follow the antigerman dogma and go full neocon, allmost everyone is more sympathetic to the antigerman line of argument than the constant screeching of the antiimps.
The concept of the nation state is required even for the most Basic communist or anarchists if they want to transition from state society with class to classeless society without a state. Becouse if not the National identity them how are you going to invite the people to the couse? The only reason why places like catalonia revolted with the anarchists was becouse they alredy had their diferent national identity from the spaniards and alredy wanted self rule for a long time.
But 90% of Muslims are basically okay people. And 90% of Muslims are Sunni.
Extremists are dickheads and they can be Sunni or Shia.
"It was good not quite long ago"
You mean like the french beheading over 1 million algerians trouth their hole colonization of the place?
We are anti idpol here. It can be a recruiting tool but putting it at the center of anything is stupid and counterproductive or even reactionary in the middle term.
Isn't Martin Schulz a full on Zionist though?
Because of porky cunts like the saudis who fund the groups like ISIS.
We are talking about national Liberation strugle of a people who needed a national identity, not some retarded neo nazis saying how we need a pure White race.
For Europeans, the Arabs among them might be the cause. Unruly bunch, I say!
Dunno, atleast hes supportive of Israels existance like every sane person.
because actual racism and the belief every arab is a "women hating conservative islamist"
The good nationalism - bad nationalism destinction is stupid. Supporting national "liberation" struggles that are primarily about creating a nation and not revolution is useless.
Is that Alex Jones?
To create even a revolution you need a nation the anarchists in spain as i sayd where only able to get people to revolt becouse they had a diferent identity them the general spaniards.
They probably are though. In free and fair elections Muslim Brotherhood parties and parties like them would win pretty much every time in the Middle East
That becouse the US generaly rigs them.
"let the intifada pave the way for the people's revolution"
Why would the U.S. rig an election in favour of an Iranian puppet?
PFLP is a dead meme.
said the fucking zionist who has never been to palestine and has no idea how big the largest marxist leninist organization with a military wing in the middle east is
Saudis are reactionary assholes and you know it stop trying to compare lybia,syria to the saudis.
Stop denying Arabs their self agency. Not everything is a US Zionist plot when it doesn't validate your third worldist romanticism
She was revolting to a alredy constructed nation there was no need to pander for national identity.
Not true at all
Oh yeah its not like Gaddafi, hefaz all Assad or even general Nasser ever existed right?
lol this bullshit is less effective than antifa larping. Israel will remain and has to remain. The destruction of Israel would create massive ethnic cleansing and in the end the Islamists would take over as allways.
wew lad maoists cementing their position as the most retarded ideology ever
Except that's wrong and even the most basic understanding of communist/anarchist thought would tell you otherwise. Read a fucking book.
Shared class interest. Class domination is an apparent aspect of almost all societies currently dominating right now, and people who are exploited by said systems stand to collectively benefit by collaboration. National identity has nothing to do with class struggle.
Except it wasn't just Catalonia. It was also Aragon, Andalusia, and Valencia: places that spoke predominantly standard Spanish and adhered to mostly the same cultural standards as the rest of the country minus your typical regional variation. They rose up because they had happened to have had active agitation and organization prior to the Civil War that primed them for revolt.
That's not even an anarchist assessment, that's the assessment of literally any socialist: no capitalist government is legitimate.
The non destruction of Israel will also lead to ethnic cleansing.
Yes they existed, and there once was a time when leftist and socialist groups held significant sway within the Arab world and were seen as the vanguard against Zionism and American imperialism. But they failed and thus the Arab world abandoned that and the pendulum swung to Islamism and jihadism, which is what we're currently living through.
"Israel will remain"
Say that to Hezbollah, hamas, fatah, Iran, Syria and many other orgs who go against Israel.
only dumb anarkiddies and liberal larpers claim based Gaddafi was capitalist
Different races, different cultues.
People's identities and background can't be too different or straight up contrasting, else the state you create would have large easily exploitable cracks.
You don't just magically put different people in the same country and tell them to get along.
hamas is muslim brotherhood though, so it could be a CIA operation to harm palestinians and have leverage against israel at the same time.
How long till we start our fire?
When scarcity is over.
Communism can't work with scarcity.
Because of extreme conservativism.
No, not all arabs are muslims, and not all muslims are islamists.
Extreme conservativism is very common and popular in the arab world though.
It does depend on the individual country. Lumping every place in the middle east together like they're all the same culture because islam is retarded, but there are lots of places where anti arab anti islam sentiment is totally justified.
Exept for every revolution in africa or in any other place in the world that isent europe go and search about Sankara.
Thats not enough for places like África where class strugle is international and there is a need for unity within the colony to form a nation even if there are diferent etnicities.
Aragon is fairly close to catalonia and while Yes there where other places the major one was catalonia wich did becouse of their alredy wanted desire for self rule. Even the anarchists in Korea had to use national identity as a tool to fight the japanese becouse they coudent do it alone with anarchism.
What do you antiimp niggaz think of the SSNP? They seem to reject Arab national identity in favor of a pan Levant/Babylonian/Assyrian one. They're also fiercely secular and even sort of have a positive view of the regions pre Islamic past.
they are superior to Ba'athism tbh
Don't need to reach post-scarcity before we start the class war. If anything, post-scarcity is not compatible with Capitalism.
That sounds like it could be could or it could be the middle eastern equivilant of pagans who are white nationalists.
yet at the same time assad (old and new) permitted and still permit hezbollah to travel through syria to protect lebanon and is now getting punished for it by israel.
seems like a troll or shill and idk why anyone would even respond to him.
The Wikipedia article gives a good synopsis of their ideology.
And then what?
Who would volunteer in hardest jobs in highest demand without greater compensation? Who would invest great compensation for great improvements?
I see it as a stagnant society doomed to fail.
aaah yes, the good old days when kings tortured and killed 40,000 kids to avenge another king's daughter rejecting your hand in marriage.
talk to an arab and they'll tell you there's a reason they had the abrahamic faiths come to their region - because they were even more barbaric without them.
This is sounding pretty fashy.
neat someone knows what the SSNP is.
my communist grandfather was in this party and got kicked out of yemen with 30 of his comrades because of it. pic related, his family with a captured zionist tank
Ahh yes the legitimacy of Assad and his elections where he wins with 99.8% of the vote hmmm very legitimate
Becouse the other options are a bunch of beheading terrorist.
IMO nu-atheist libs are much more responsible for propagating Islamophobia than truly left voices
Look at the women! So gharbiy and kawaii.
I'd love to roll this picture up tightly and jam it up the urethras of the "muh ayrabs are pac man ghosts" delegation.
All the more reason to ostracize them.
I'm also afraid of anti-muslim (read: brown people) sentiment boiling over and exploding into pogroms or something. Though that's a pretty irrational fear (I hope)
Obtain a firearm or basic self defense.
Yes, and none of them were socialist either. Some of them were led by communist parties and a few among those implemented some land redistribution measures, but that was about as far towards anything resembling socialism any of them went.
Sankara came into power by coup, not revolution. As a result, almost all of his policies were removed shortly after his death because they were not into being by popular support.
And even then, very few of them actually got their independence directly through revolutionary struggle. African independence ultimately failed to remove many of the dominating institutions of imperialism in favor largely of lukewarm peace negotiations built around the borders and terms stipulated by their colonizers. African nations largely failed to form coherent national identities both within and after their decolonization struggles, so I don't know what you're trying to peddle.
Yes, and? France is close to Catalonia too, but we wouldn't say that revolution in France was because of Catalonian independence struggles.
The very notion of anarchist struggle is that of self rule, so of course that will be among the goals. It wasn't an ethnically-based movement though, which would be the case if the movement itself was centered around Catalan identity.
We know of very few credible sources that are about anarchists under Japanese rule as written by the anarchists themselves. Most of its history has since been rolled into the larger area of Korean independence struggles, so much of the language surrounding it has been heavily influenced by subsequent nationalist movements that have co-opted part of that legacy.
Also holy fuck, use spellcheck PLEASE
Agreed, I don't see many leftists trying to pull the 'regressive left' meme and most of the time 'regressive left' refers to people slightly left of neoliberals so you know the people saying it aren't socialists of any stripe.
Pogroms against minorities in the Arab world are more likely than pogroms against Muslims in the west. You see how people all across the US mobilised to cripple Trump's Muslim ban. Where was that sort of mobilisation in the Middle East when there was a genocide being committed against Yazidis? The Christians of the Middle East are essentially being cleansed from existence too.
Damn near every nation in the Arab world is involved, in some way, in the fight against ISIS. At the very least, the Shia groups are very directly involved. ISIS has no official allies, and no existing state has recognized them as a nation.
Look up popular mobilisation units asshole. Besides I think most of liberals that parcitipated in those protest would be a little more apprehensive if they were likely to get shot
It's simply Porky doing Porky stuff.
If we got along as races, and religions. The next and only struggle we will have is the class struggle.
Does Porky want that? ofc not. Porky is smart, average proletarian is not.
We are effectively in another dark age. We are not advancing as a society anymore.
It's called islamophobia and it's been around in modern times since the Balfour Declaration. Get rid of Israel and the propaganda against democratically elected leaders that threaten Zionist interest disappears. Good luck convincing liberals that these leaders were actually better than the puppets the CIA and Mossad put in place though.
hahhaha are you fucking serious m8? people took trump to court or "stood up to him" on twitter.
you think that's gonna work with isis? stupid sheltered kid wants to see people "mobilise" in the middle of a civil war.
The persecution of minorities in the Middle East goes far beyond ISIS and has been state policy a lot of the time.
Not really, no.
Currently way better than the ba'ath
Syria under Assad is a fascist state
Kurds and religious minorities in Iran and gulf countries alone proof you wrong.
Saudi Arabia say's non muslims can't live there.
That's it. They don't kill Christians or anything.
Saudi Arabia is very oppressive towards its Shia population.
Só youre going to deny Che and the revolution in congo? Yes not all the independence revs where socialists But im talking about the ones that where like in angola.
Sankara's policies where remover becouse they did not go with the interest of the burgeoi.
Nobody sayd it was going to be easy to form a nation and a national identity to fight some of the most Powerfull countries in the world, its going to be hard and youre probably are going to need extreme amount of help. Why do you think cuba sended thousands to fight in multiplayer revolutionary strugles in africa?
centered around Catalan identity.
The movement it self wasent based on the Catalan identity But the people from catalonia suported it becouse it was probably their best chance to get some type of independence.
Sorry if its hard to read im using my phone and its a bitch to type big piles of text on it.
Because Assad kills all other options before they can become options.
Minorities in Iran get special treatment, excluded from Islamic rules, and every minority have the right to be represented on the Parliament like even if they didn't got enough votes.
Kurds were oppressed by the Turkish seculars and Iraqi seculars, both pro-West establishments. The only reason for oppression was that the regime they didn't wanted competition. And the West supported that since every revolution in the last century was related to communism from near or far.
You only mean the two holy cities, the rest of Saudi are okay to live in. Actually a huge number of Saudi residents are not Muslims, it's 30% expats, Dubai is even 92% expats.
Because Iran are their sworn enemy. They're worried that what's happening in Yemen could spread to their country.
Saudi Arabian porkies literally enslaves workers from poor Asian countries like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh
Yeah, it's called "capitalism". Ever hear of it?
You mean that group who are constantly making alliances with distant powers to overthrow regimes they don't like? gee I wonder why no one likes them.
I won't deny they are racist scum. But Arab Christians are okay as far as they are concerned.
Umm no, capitalism is an economic system, not a political system. It's the job of the political system to outlaw slavery. You can have slavery under any other economic system, too. It has nothing to do with capitalism per se.
It isn't de facto slavery. They come willingly and get paid a wage
This. AIPAC has ensured any socialist government in the middle east that is capable of governing themselves is dismantled. Israel has used this strategy recently to destabilize Syria to block the creation of oil pipelines from Iran so they can get the $500bilion pipeline created before Iran.
Vulnerable poor people come to Saudi Arabia and when they arrive as a maid or whatever at their patron's house they are under complete control of that patron and effectively slaves as they're isolated, poor and deprived of basic rights in a foreign country. The job might be advertised as one thing, but it's always a lot worse and more sinister once they get there
Are you seriously dropping Saudi apologism on us right now
I realize all that. But it doesn't make it slavery, just extremely exploitative capitalism
jesus christ how many times must this discussion come up
Tell your Western Christians to stop funding Zionists and donating to them to literally throw their Christian brothers from their homes in Palestine then.
arabs are muslims
muslims are theocrats
theocrats are objectively shit
>>>Holla Forums tier logic
Thats totaly logical.
are you fucking serious?
take the time to google "muslim brotherhood cia" before you post again.
they probably don't have to rig the elections though, with their propaganda and the extremist schools and extremist schoolbooks they finance.
The Muslim brotherhood is certainly not on friendly terms with Iran, they support the FSA for one.
Mautism aside, it's long since been known that to the alphabet agencies, giving the Middle East actual political autonomy is unthinkable because it usually doesn't go their way. The region is simply too economically valuable, so the left wing and nationalist political factions have to go; even the liberal/suckdem parties tend to advocate nationalizing oil, but the muzzie theocrats are more than willing to sell.
the muslim brotherhood is an isolated incident and they aren't even a significant force outside of africa. islamist arabs hate the us because of iran and palestine.
Found the problem.
Reminder that burgers unironically believe that white muslims don't exist and that islam is genetic
you're telling me islam isn't a race
We're not in another Dark Age, because the Dark Ages were better than this.
they're palestinians, the headscarf wasn't really a thing back then
I've noticed the opposite: most "leftists" I know think Arabs are all magically oppressed and are all wonderful people. A good example of this are the "pro-Palestine" mob who tend to support Arab imperialism over Israeli imperialism. If anything I'd say the left hates Jews.
This is the correct answer.
Lenin, Stalin, and Mao: "It's not imperialist when WE do it!!11!"
this is just as asinine as OP, does not agreeing with Holla Forums mean you're deeply triggering and problematic now too?
Think of them as evangelical Christians, it's pretty much the same thing, a reformist religion which strips out its collectivist elements but have zealot devotion to the carcass that's left.
Gee, I wonder who could be behind this post
It wasn't a thing before the US shit-disturbers made it a thing, iirc.
Yeah because Iran was always a Shia theocracy right?
Being anti-arab is a racist position, being anti-islam i a logical one, islam gets no speacial treatment among fairytales
You statist cuck
YPG is that kid that always tells on you to the teacher
Is this a raid? We've been getting to many threads these last few days that act as if there were some conflict between leftism and arabs, when that hasn't been opinion on Holla Forums ever. it stinks of Holla Forums's patented "subtlety"
Regardless, promoting Arab and Islamic communism is the biggest tasks of the left today. The rise of radical islam is one of our greatest failures (albeit a forceful defeat). oppressed people going to a revolutionary movement that isn't us.
I think it's just one guy. You can tell because he uses the same all Muslims are terrorist jpegs again and again
Assad's government is secular though.
So why would new leftists hate it?
Funny I was going to say you're confusing race for religion.
Are you the JIDF guy who normally posts with the YPG flag?
Because the EU and part of the American Bourgeoisie want Assad out.
not the leftists, though.
hey antideutscher spinner, müsstest du nach afghanistan, irak und libyen nicht langsam mal einsehen, wie doof du bist?