A friend lurking Holla Forums found a thread on this and linked it to me.
tripleampersand.org
I had a quick glance at it, and while I liked the criticism at liberalism and the failures of the radical left, it then seems to me to double down on third-world fetishisation and basically be the same IDpol that's been plaguing the left, but de-fanged (IE we'll be the alt-right but for black queers). I'm also often retarded though, so eh. Curious to see what's the takes on it here.
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First altleft, now this. Can these people chill with the nonalternative altisms?
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want to counter the alt-right? discuss their concerns about demographics and white dispossession instead of screaming at them and punching them
embarassing. it's inconsistent, lacks definition of terms and it needs to establish the context its operating on. the third point of "poiesis" touches on something morozov talked about a while back but the overall tone doesnt drive the point home that so many problems are cultural not technological. also, "the ends always justify the means"??? bullshit - every difference makes a difference, the actual result of your actions will result from the particulars of the actions themselves. you can't separate means and ends as things that can be evaluated independent of one another, and this also ignores psychology: do you really want to have a bunch of bloodthirsty people running around feeling like they've one something? this is a recipe for a runaway death spiral. we'll never defeat capitalism with muh consumerist ideology, you lifestylist edgelords. our way forward is bookchinism-apoism.
You don't debate Nazis.
People need to stop using this word. It's the word of suburbanite liberals and coffe shop-dwelling hipsters. Up against the wall they go.
You have no interest in why they took up nazism?
They're just, facists who can't be reasoned with?
They're against corporate power and government corruption just like you. They turned to the right because that establishment was left. Just a terrible pseudo-left alliance of neolibs and idpol sjws.
They're also racist as fuck. You forgot that.
Well, not really.
I can have a conversation with Mussolini-esque fascist, not Nazis.
I don't think you blame Holocaust denial on le "es jay dubyus".
Racism is not a sin or a moral stain on someones soul. Its just a stupid belief. Lots of people holding it creates larger negative consequences, but as for individuals who are racist, its just a stupid belief or two.
Which, again, they turned to in rebellion against SJW liberal idpol.
People dont react against the thing thats really wrong when they do this, they react against whatever specific instance of it is aggreiving them.
You absolutely can blame holocaust denial on SJWs. "Lets be ACTUAL NAZIS, for REAL" is like the edgiest thing they could do to say 'fuck you' to those people, their influence, and the system their side runs.
You're right. We've just been missing the holocaust denial and racism.
In a few years from now the alt right will be regarded by everyone to be a miserable disgrace, including the alt right. Except they won't change their views aside from saying "we're not like them"
Even though the real problem is the system, not whether its being run by right-centrist with worryingly common fringe christians or left-centrists with worryingly common fringe tumblrinas, because again
Their side is on the rise now and their candidates are winning, and embracing this reaction against some specific side does lead alot of them to embrace at least some of the nazi crap, but im sure alot of them can still be reasoned with and shown the truth, because the ultimate root of their greivances are actually the same as yours.
This will become less and less so as they gain power though, I think.
Im not sure what you mean
It's simple. We become entryists into the RIght Wing parties. When people think they're getting concentration camps…BAM. Gulags.
There's literally no reasoning with a neo-nazi. Try it yourself friendo, you won't go very far, and then you'll realize punching richard spencer made more radicals than having a wonderful discussion with people who think the source of oppression is George Soros' wallet and not Capitalism at large.
I think you've got the generally right idea though, and that is to focus on socialist economic populism.
the alt-right was smothered in the crib by its own members, these fucking gargoyle retards BTFO'd themselves. they refuse to listen, i'm done.
the alt-right movement will be on the sidelines, despised, and still flinging shit at the wall as an upstart Mussolini type fascist movement brings neurotypical and actually attractive american teenagers of all ethnicities and both genders into its fold. cucked again Holla Forums
time to go nazbol
Implying anyone identifying as alt-right is savable.
Someone posted an "I'm an alt-right libertarian" thread not so long ago. He was much worse than the average Holla Forumstard.
You cucks are irrelevant because you act all high and mighty while not hating white people. It's because you are white by males who are too chauvinistic to hate yourselves and your muh privilege. BLM and Antifa are actually engaging in direct action against the oppressive system while you cucks sit here and criticize their righteous struggle
Goddamit I forgot the Nazi flag
Lol, what the fuck is this? If somebody was raised in and utterly invested in the idea of racial supremacy, then their views aren't changing anytime soon. You aren't speaking to adolescents who've picked up stupid views without understanding them, you're speaking to grown individuals who are spooked beyond belief. These are the type of people who see more in common with a billionaire than they do the seasonal Central American farm workers who are working right next to them. I personally know working class dudes in the fucking Bay Area (arguably the most liberal place in the US) who have been fucked with by actual white supremacists.
I hate to sound like anfem, but why is it that white anons on Holla Forums have this ideal view of racists/nazis, saying that they can be turned or enlightened if you engage in thoughtful/rational discussion with them? If these people suspect that their narrative is being challenged, they aren't going to fucking listen to you. Hell, trying to convince (most) moderate baby boomers that socialism isn't a scary ideology doesn't even work. What makes you think that appealing to the opposite end of the political spectrum would work?
It's because they are actually racist muh privileged faggots who want to wax poetic about fighting opression on the Internet while doing fucking nothing. They are just beta fags who hate identity politics and femenism while pretending to be leftist while shitting on groups like BLM and Antifa and femenists ignoring their struggle and concerns completely in favour of ivory tower bullshit
fucking what?
not going to happen, faggot. There are better ways to spread class consciousness and giving into idpol is not one of them.
Perhaps I admire and understand the concerns of BLM hmmm and black nationalist figures like Farakhan hmmm? I think they should get their own ethno state in North America for example
There we go…
Implying you're not the real racists
How about no ?
I agree with this. Then again I'm not American so there's that.
Sure lets keep the Africans in a white supremacist colonial prison of nations and tell them how they should think and how they should organize their society because we white men with our German ideologies are so much smarter than they are
Not falling for it Holla Forums, now fuck off.
Sure because my trolling efforts on this insignificant Chinese back alley sperm donor forum is about to yield real tangible dividend IRL
Words can't express how elated I am now that the rightists started to use it to describe liberal idpol bullshit.
Yes, because you seem like a real rational lot, now do you?
It's cute btw how you cucks dismiss their concerns just because they're black. Even the oppressive USSR gave national autonomous republics to ethnic groups until Stalin killed everyone. I'm sure that in the alternative universe where you faggots take over power you will purge and and deport black people from to Alaska or some shit like Stalin did with Chechens, Tatars and Jews and Mao with Tibet because they will start agitating for their own freedom
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It's so like you to group all people into neat little groupings and dismiss them out of hand since. Like I'm an individual I don't know that Nazi I've never heard of that Nazi I don't even know what that image is supposed to convey besides your secret desire to get fucked by some Nazis I don't even know if I like him but Leftists will always place you in a big box and stereotype you because you think you're better than everyone else and that you know better
Take your meds.
Personal attack and character assassination
We don't dismiss their concerns because they're black. We dismiss their concerns because they're either exaggerating or making a race issue out of a humanitarian issue.
Stopped reading there. I'm an anarchist m8, I fucking hate the USSR, try again.
I've never had the thought cross my mind. This seems like projection on your part m8.
You're not very smart, are you?
I'm not the one making half naked Nazi brazzers memes here. And what's wrong with ethno states implying ethno republics are more impressive than gigantic oligarchies like America and the USSR
meds
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You are clearly incapable of recognizing the effects of racist colonial opression. As a result of British and French imperialism for example the various tribal groupings in Africa and the Middle East were put in artificially constructed states that only lead to misery and bad things if it wasn't for that genocides like Rwanda could have been avoided and so could have the Syrian civil war. The Socialist Kurds in the North of Syria for example are fighting for their own national liberation and you fags like that but when black people do it you shit on them
has some good insights but also some pretty bad ones imo
Last time people wanted an ethno state, their country collapsed and most were gratly opposed to them.
Again, you're not fooling anyone.
The socialist kurds are also fighting alongside socialist Turks, Arabs, assyrians and international fighters from the east and west.
You're not fooling anyone, fuck off.
Why would you bother countering the Alt-Right? They're a very tiny group. The majority of people are still liberals and conservatives, those are the people who shape politics.
This. Focusing on converting liberals and your average conservatives, not this small group of wannabe Nazis.
Deferring to bourgeois liberal politics is the problem, not the solution. Liberals of whatever sort are already members of a henotheistic church. One might interpret them as damage and route around them. Someday they'll understand that their spooks and hangups are unwelcome in politics, if they are told to fuck off often and loudly enough.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
The aut-right is about as self-aware as atheism+ was, and I'm going to laugh when their movement turns out exactly the same.
Riiiiiight…
There's a couple good points I really liked, such as the lefty version of archeofuturism which replaces tribalism with socialism. Even the discussion of co-opting the memetic nature of cyberspace for radical leftist purposes is interesting, if a bit mired in 90s lingo and clearly ripped from MGS2.
The entire thing is lost though through the overt deeply triggering and problematic racism, blatant third world worship and straight-up praise of cuckoldry. Why does cuckoldry even need to be in this? It completely changes the nuance of the entire manifesto from being a legitimate leftist version of the 'alt-right' into being a twisted response against the alt-right's attacks. By their own admission, the power is still in the rightists hands. And why the racism? It's not only impossible to get the far right to give up ties to nationalitiy or ethnicity, but the vast majority of the normal liberal crowd will buckle down on their blood and land ties as well if only through identity politics.
In the end it's just a really collegiate sounding manifesto from some upstate yuppies who have never stepped foot outside their bubble. It basically calls for the exact same thing that the liberal left in the US is already doing - doubling down on the deeply triggering and problematic and anti-nationalist rhetoric. Unlike the corporate sponsored liberals though, this doesn't even seem to have a clear end goal.
the leftforum.