ITT: I defend Muslims

I don't even like religion, but this is just wrong. Shia, for example, don't believe this IIRC.

If that was the case, then USSR administration wouldn't have an influence on muslims from central Asia, which is demonstrably false. But anyways, fuck off to reddit, you're not welcome here.

right, so youve completely misunderstood. Im not saying islam is real, im a athiest myself, but im trying to help educate about the history of the middle east and dispel modern misconceptions of muslims. Ill try and answer some of the points that fulfill the criteria.

State sponsored oppression is state sponsored, so its porky, not islam. If your implying its all of islam, youre wrong.
Again, this comes from state mouth pieces and the most extremist clerics, not representative.

Your really salty about other peoples faith, chill.

been lurking for years, posting for about 2/3. But i dont have to justify myself to you.

truth.

Do any of you actually try to find out about the things you criticise constantly? I mean you have the entire internet at your disposal.
Parroting things you heard on chans and reddit doesn't count.

you know the USSRs influence wasnt good right, they massacred Chechnyans who were majority muslim, and the lasting legacy caused serbs to ethnically cleanse Croatia, Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo. If your telling me less people believed in Islam by choice, you should brush up on your history.

its kinda what im trying to do, im giving them a tl;dr guide on the middle east and islam. Thing is they keep asking dumb questions and being smart-asses to prove that "god not real lol"

Philosophies and cultural identities. People just want everyone to act like a white westerner or they get upset.

i HATE that shit. I thought Holla Forums didnt leave the house but damn, most people here really dont talk to other people, do they.

He said we was defending Muslims not Islam, can't you read?

And 🍀🍀🍀rootless cosmopolitans🍀🍀🍀 and orthodox priests and so on, they weren't picky.
That was when they already dropped the left-wing facade and went full-right wing.

The same sorta thing couldve been carried out under secularists, that is indisputable.

Holla Forums and Holla Forums are pretty similar in that sense, a lot of chauvinism and an insular mindset.
anyway everyone seems to have an opinion on "saudi islam" so i'll post this.
youtube.com/watch?v=tU90AaKsGm8

I can, which is why I ask this question:
Can't you read?

Taqiyya. :)

The whole alt-facts/fake news thing makes the fuss about taqiya look a bit hypocritical these days.

Western societies are structurally lying, and have been for decades. Lying to the people is a porky fetish. see

Maybe, but it was not the case in that specific case of Yugoslav wars, as Serbs quickly switched their goal to the de-facto creation of Greater Serbia.

Kys already
Only aut-righters and SJW's can't keep these things apart.

Yeah, that is true.

have you read this thread? id dispute that, pay attention to secularist threads aswell, it shows you up again. You have to much respect for our peers.

Rorschach test

as in im projecting? i dont think so (ofcourse, i wouldnt) trawling through some of the threads really brings up some questionable opinions, especially from the left.

...

please read the thread properly

muhammed was a pedophile

#rememberAisha

Why are Stirnerists always an embarrasment to Stirner?

Fucking kys. You're the sort of clown who calls genuine reformers of islam "islamophobes" and gets Maajid Nawaz listed as an anti-muslims extermist.
You're doing exact the opposite of what you are going for. Fuck you.

your point? wait, are you telling me someone who lived in a time before widespread justice committed heinous crimes? Well he mustve been the only one, definitely, and he founded a religion i dont like?! no way!

Majid Nawaz is a tory dickhead though

I actually really admire Nawaz, his prowess on his LBC show is top notch, despite being a lib dem shill. Mehdi Hasan is someone also really good at shutting down islamaphobes. what about this thread has suggested i do what YOU think i do? Remember, i dont agree with the religion, but alot of people dont know what they are talking about. Try again bucko

Considering that Maryam Namazie and Tarek Fatah are the only far left islam reformers, we can't be too picky here.

I personally think Stirners not really that great, you can buy to what hes saying, but then everything could be called a spook. Hes just saying "things a subjective to the person so dont generalise or use vast concepts" its just the death of the grand narrative flipped to the individual.

wtf.. are you even reaading the thread? get your head out of your ass

Though i think islam needs reformation, majiid is shit in all except his reformism

dont forget Mehdi Hasan

Stop confusing ideas and people or kys

Islam needs some removing

Note to OP
This statement isn't anti-muslim, it's anti-islam

fucking hell mate, your dense. ill make it simple, muslims believe in their own Islam, drawing from different sources personal to them (alot like your leftism) attacking islam as this simple concrete ideology is like attacking all the left for liberals, its just not right.

Read more.

nice shitpost bro.
No, it doesnt.

Blacks should act white. Note, this statement isn't anti-black, just anti black people not acting white.

Is Islam as a whole good or bad? Is its impact on the whole good or bad? Saying that you can't oppose Islam because there's no one such thing is retarded.

only anti-muslim to the muslims you dont like right? you know, all of them?

it makes the process of getting people contributing to mass movements much harder.

But you didn't offer a response to any of these incredibly valid points so your thread is a waste of space.

And you left out:

its not retarded, because islam is SOO divided as a faith. See the map, Sunnis, shias, Wahhabists, and so many more, all with their own interpretation from womends rights, to the son of the prophet. Western interpretation of islam comes from Capitalist states where church and state are linked, and as such the people serve the state, the state serves the church, and the church serves the market.

Islam, as a whole, i neither good or bad, the same for its impact, like any other religion. However, muslims as a whole are good, and their impact on the world is good because they are the people like us. Islam has given the world alot however, coffee, lemons, mathmatics and lots more, its easy to forget that.

because they are dumb points, not intrisic to islam, but capitalism. All 10 points (inc. those 5) benefits their collective states. As for the integration side, your just being silly now. There is a point to be made for refugees not integration, but they arent there by choice, and long for the day to return, so they see integration as a waste of time, as would you.

Also, CIA has funded way more terrorism that Saudis or Iran ever could. Who is your enemy? Islam or capitalism, because it really cant be both mate.

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Your just angry that they arent white bud

Nice tacit admission that you have no answers.
Also hilarious that you somehow (with no explanation) manage to wrap around and blame captialism for major issues with Muslims and Islam.

REEEEE NO ONE SHOULD BE MUSLIM OR ANY RELIGION. REEEE NO FREEDOM OF THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!

Islam hate is basically just another way nazis and imperialists justify exploitation since race is no longer considered an acceptable rationale.

no it doesn't. if a muslim is religious, it implies he has an extremely reactionary view on a number of topics, and also feels that spreading islam is his duty. i of course am not for discrimination of muslims, because alienating them will just give stronger roots to their reactionary ideology.

they should be assimilated, and im already working on it on many immigrants here in my country. through our common struggles, they realize in practice that class is the only thing that matters. these people, through common struggle, will abandon their reactionary spooks in 2-3 generations max. your laissez-faire approach of "religious tolerance" is neo-liberal alienation politics, and you are a filthy liberal that should either read some marx or gtfo

see

my explanation makes sense, those things you point out come (aside the ridiculous integration point) come from states where the church is integrated, and any capitalist state only serves capitalism, no matter the church, as you see what they do with their finance, money comes before god.

That would stop as soon as the west stops aligning with America, who have been fucking with those areas since WW2.
The only ones I can think of are Iran, Lebanon and Palestine. Pretty sure state funded conventional war has killed more civilians though, maybe you should be more concerned about that.
Not my business.
Sounds like the average English person to me.
Not reforming is what gives it it's authenticity, like it or not. Statistically it's not more violent than any other religion.
You'd just like us to be the docile house niggers you can oppress without retaliation.
Not happening.

i just think people should have freedom of thought. I suppose that makes me a filthy liberal who should read some marx though. You are literally condemning a group of people for believing in a god. Why arent you assimilating cristians, hindus, sikhs or any other religion, im sure you belive the same for all religions right? or are you, like every one else, focusing on a group of people you dont like.

hint: its the latter.

Iran only funds anti-zionist """terror""" groups. Saudi Arabia is the main financier of actual terrorism in the region (other than America of course.)

.its not retarded, because islam is SOO divided as a faith.
It doesn't matter. You can argue that it's only certain strands which are bad but that still makes the religion, as a whole, bad.

So what does it have on the positive side that balances out the barbarity and deeply reactionary culture? How does it benefit humanity? I'm talking now, not centuries ago.

So you're assuming that religion is always neutral in its impact? That's ridiculous. Practically nothing is neutral, but religion is a special category of ideology which is neither good nor bad/

No, the parts of the world which now are fucked up by Islam did all that. The idea that Islam can claim credit for that stuff is, again, ridiculous.

Post proof or gtfo

Reminder that anyone who says people with liberal values are better for the left than people with conservative or reactionary values has never had to suffer through extended interaction with a liberal.

I would unironically try to recruit fascists first.

Yeah. I also find it ironic that the same anons on Holla Forums who are staunch opponents of idpol are also promoting their own form of idpol (i.e. religion must be defeated before the revolution can be achieved).

Pic related.

now, i think its racist when people conflate islam with arabs. Thats who alot of anti-islam are railing against, when infact the black power movement had a lot of muslim leaders. Do they count Malcom when saying all muslims are reactionary?

I'm pretty sure most of the anti Muslim thread are Holla Forums. I don't understand why you think eliminating Muslims or Islam is going to help you defeat capitalism, if anything radical Islamist are the ones "stopping" capitalist oil interests whilst destroying the western spectacle.

People here talk so much shit about Islam and Muslims, etc. It seems like another form of idpol tbh to divide the working class. That guy is a Muslim so he is an oppressive reactionary piece of shit.

The kids in Iraq who joined ISIS are the products of American invasion into Iraq.

Holla Forums =/= the left.

This. For most places outside of the west the CIA and the tyrannical regimes they support are the faces of the enlightened, liberal west. The irony here is that those faces are the true face of bourgeois democracy.

they also like to pic and choose which muslims are reactionary. Hamas? not reactionary, Hezbollah? reactionary, Malcom X? not reactionary, 99% of muslims? reactionary.

Holla Forums needs to have a chat with itself

It's almost as if Islam is irrelevant in the equation, to a large extent. Who would have thought?

independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-a7362071.html

id disagree, but add Holla Forums to the end of that sentance and its still true

What a great dubs post

If you hate Islam and hate what it stands for, ok, really nobody is going to give you shit for that, but if you are going to single out a Muslim who is a socialist just because he is a Muslim, then you need to step back and check yourself. Not every Muslim is the same, just like how not every Christian believes in catholic doctrine. Creating an Idealized form of a Muslim is a spook in itself.

that's literally liberal gibberish. no one raised in a reactionary muslim household has "freedom of thought", they are simply indoctrinated from early age. no sane person, having received a secular education and being mentally healthy, will ever convert to a religion in his adulthood

ye it does. you should read some hegel too while you're at it, maybe you'll understand the dialectic behind religion.

i'm not condemning a group of people, those people are the product of indoctrination made possible by the dominant ideology. I condemn their reactionary ideology, which is in direct contrast with all values of scientific socialism

who says I'm not? I live in greece, which along with the vatican is the only non-secular christian nation on earth. Socialism is a the critique of all idealist ideologies, since they enable exploitation and reactionary ideals.

You want me to write a critique of all the religions you mentioned? Or should I stick to the topic YOU chose?

hint: you're a moron that should open a book and learn what an argument is instead of making baseless assumptions based on poor grasp of marxist critique

hint: strawmanning isn't an argument

Thats stems from people quoting Marx out of context, and is basically an easy excuse for not having a revolution.
It doesn't even matter in countries without a large number of religious people.
The 1% of Muslims in the US population are not the reason it's a classcucked shithole, but they are a useful distraction right now.

That's proof someone thinks they are, not that they are. Try again.

So, this is the point where we are at now? We state things as if they are true without any proof.

Holla Forums here just reminding you guys how dire the Muslim problem is and that you can't trust "moderates" or even "former" Muslims. Each and every one is effectively a sleeper cell and anything could set it off. Also islamophobia isn't a real thing because a fear of Islam is rational

Provide me one reason for someone living in a society free of the psychological damage exploitation causes and where people don't get indoctrinated into idealist ideologies since early age to start believing in baseless idealism?

People are born without ideology, which develops during their lifetime. Why would someone adopt reactionary idealist ideology when having received proper secular education and with no societal drive to do so?

MY SIDES

opinion discarded

I'm not saying anything that much different from what everyone else is bro

stopped reading

lol, you guys really do love getting your shit pushed in.
go back, cunt.

you're a fucking moron. there's literally no point in this argument, your shitty opinions reek of post-modern relativist liberalism

please, do yourself a favour and do flag related. or at least call yourself a liberal, you fucking entryist garbage

Just like old times.

this is why i hate trots.

Nigga, go put a pad on.

except we're not paranoid of everyone with a tan being a potential sleeper agent of some ebil mastermind

be honest, have you read marx? or any leftist theory?

you are so uneducated, you cannot even understand my critique and see your own liberalism. this is quiet sad for a leftist board

I recognize them as a threat, because I have lived under their occupation for far too long and have watched friends and family die because they refused to comply. I used to be tolerant, but now I demand the extinction of the islamic empire at a subspecies level before I will rest easy ever again.

You may be able to defend muslims because you have not lived under the hell that is a sharia state. Not for me, the trauma runs too deep.

What you call 'hardline clerics' are the de-facto policymakers of Islam today, like it or not. If you disagree with them, I hope you have heavy military weapons to fend of wave after wave of assassins sent after you for 'insulting islam'.

Yes, I used to be a muslim, and they had us cheer at the footage of 9/11 and 7/7. Yeap, that means they'll also be sending assassins after me because the only way out of the islamic mafia is in a pine box or in a 1 liter tin can.

Sup Holla Forums,

im going to assume your posting fom a capitalist society (you are), your society is classcucked to chit, and nearly everyone around you belives its the only way, yet you believe in your preferred leftism?

You have freedom of choice and thought, but doesnt capitalism indoctrinate you? yeah, it does, turns out when people see something they dont agree with, they dont like it.

to all anti-islam posters, some one is muslim for the same reason your a leftist. Your parents, your enviroment, your upbringing, and finally, your beliefs.

You just stated something without any backing and then started spouting out non sense, and stop using "Have you read any Marx or Leftist theory?" retort; as if, that's any argument of any kind.

Sorry, white women not wanting to have sex with you isn't occupation.

no ones read theory here bro, but im pretty sure marx wasnt anti-muslim.

SINCE WHEN DID TRUMP START POSTING ?
go back, Holla Forums

100+ replies and i havent even had a chance to talk about history yet. God Holla Forums, step it up with your arguements

Which country was this?

made-up-istan

The problem with Islam is that in the countries you highlighted is it still considered word of law, anything other than utter devotion is met with state punisment. Which is why the muslim equivalent of the couch-christian who only knows the bible when its time to complain about fags is a rarity even for long time immigrants

Tradition is a bitch to abandon for an individual let alone an entire culture. The first step to reforming them would be to introduce them to secularism. How do we go about doing that though?

Why is it in Pakistan women go around without hijab? Even in Iran women go around without hijab.

Well Pakistan or Iran are not proper Islamic States. Why do leftists want to force their ideology onto other people who don't want it. For instance in Afghanistan 99% want shariah law. Why force your traditions onto them?

Where was that picture taken? Because if it was in the country side she would probably have been raped to death shortly after. Pakistan is an awful country that shouldn't exist. Fucking muslim porkies.

Probally Lahore, Islamabad, or Karachi?

It's almost as if economic conditions determines a person's predisposition.

No country should exist.

Most Pakistani porkies are not even Muslim, if they are it's just being Muslim for the sake of being Muslim, kind of like repubs.

Muslim porkies are the only reason Pakistan exists. Pakistan is a non-country that is used by the American empire to resist communism during the cold war and to perpetuate American hegemony in general.

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Neither the islamic religion nor the islamic cultures are compatible with leftism or socialism.

...

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as if this is a fucking war of ideas? you realize these people adopt these reactionary social views because of material conditions right? I mean if you look at the evolution of commonly held christian beliefs throughout history you'll realize that what's much more significant than the Bible is the historical conditions in which these people find themselves. >>>/liberalpol/

self criticism and self reflection are white traits

You're not preaching in public, or building temples or getting tax breaks for your bullshit.

why?
that's fine I prefer churches

I prefer real cultural centers.
No. We will not be doing that.

i used to hate Islam but then i realized i had a lot in common with them.

you need to take off the leftcom flag. you're ruining it tbh

audibly kekked

...

Religion is reactionary. :^)

Religion's job was to help people to make sense of the world. But now, we have proper educational institutions. We don't need you anymore, all you're doing anymore is polluting politics. An educated people are better than religiously indoctrinated ones.