Can we finally quit tossing this word around for things we don't like?
Zizek - Trump is not a fascist
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He is not fascist maybe.,…
but what is fascism for you?
Zizek supported Drumpf on immigration, fuck him.
"we" as in oldfags on this board know better
But we're under constant assault by redditors and unread fucking retard faggots that want to revise the definition of "fascist" to fit Trump to fuel their shit Democrat partisanship
Democratic socialism is the easiest way to move overton window towards true communism, you idiot. If Obama did not exist, neither would you think about communism as an ideology, you should be thankful. Same with Trump. Trump is Obama of Fascism.
Well, it includes corporatism which Trump doesn't advocate.
can this meme fucking die?
I don't advocate for that either, doesn't make me any less of a fascist tbh.
That is not a good definition…
+Trump is a corporatefag with corporation owners in the oval office.
Try again to have a good not perfect, but at least good definition for Fascism
He isn't a fascist but a lot of why he isn't has to do with his typical pro privatization, pro deregulation economic views. Not exactly a point we should be defending him on. We should state his isn't a fascist for a sake of respect for the facts but nothing more.
This is actually kind of a good point.
Obama has been called "socialist" so much that when Sanders came and actually called himself a socialist, nobody blinked.
And now Trump keeps being called fascist.
At least there are some smart fine gentlemen on this board.
Please read up on what fascists mean when they talk about "corporatism". What you're describing is neoliberalism.
Then you're not a fascist. If anything you might be a neo-fascist but there's still a difference.
Did you not notice the increase in smear stories against Bernie after he declared his support for socialist policies? The ideological blowback which ended with a member of his camp being assassinated Seth Rich rip? The Overton window didn't shift at all as instead the Democrats were forced into accepting a neocon disguised as a neoliberal. Even.the recent town hall that the dems held reiterated that they were assuredly capitalists. Stay deluded/r/socialism.
There's no way he was simultaneously dangerous enough to warrant an assassination against a member of his team while holding an ideology far outside the overton window (and therefore harmless since no one would ever consider him)
You can't have it both ways
I mean he directs the working class struggle towards a false enemy, an enemy through which Americans can form a national identity in a manner that's way more bold and direct than the traditional conservative. He may not be a full blown fascist but all his words and actions seem extremely similar to proto-fascist behavior.
The term literally means "pre-fascist". Even Zizek used this term incorrectly as proto-fascists are Sorelians.
I've been seeing "ultraleft" a lot lately. Is that just another way of saying leftcom? Or does it mean something else?
Reddit go home
tbf "populist" seems to be more accurate description of Mr.Trump so far.
What shocked me as non American citizen was how willingly some American people believed words of populist who never served in army/payed fair tax/suffered poverty himself.
I know that proto-fascist means pre fascist. Trump being a pre-fascist was my entire point. I wasn't using the term to imply that Trump holds views that were actually anything along the lines of Sorelian or any other movement that constituted the theoretical ground for fascism. I was using it to imply that Trump paves the way for fascism e.g. normalizing a nationalistic rhetoric that is necessary for a fascist uprising or pushing the neo-liberal agenda that intensifies the working class struggle which can be used as a tool by fascists even further through ideas like his tax policy. The latter example might not be solely useful for fascists but the former one was my main reference point anyway. Besides that, as far as I'm aware Sorelians are just a kind of proto-fascists but not all proto-fascists are Sorelians.
I know that proto-fascist means pre fascist. Trump being a pre-fascist was my entire point. I wasn't using the term to imply that Trump holds views that were actually anything along the lines of Sorelian or any other movement that constituted the theoretical ground for fascism. I was using it to imply that Trump paves the way for fascism e.g. normalizing a nationalistic rhetoric that is necessary for a fascist uprising or pushing the neo-liberal agenda that intensifies the working class struggle, which can be used as a tool by fascists, through ideas like his tax policy. The latter example might not be solely useful for fascists but the former one was my main reference point anyway. Besides that, as far as I'm aware Sorelians are just a kind of proto-fascists but not all proto-fascists are Sorelians.
whatever,zizek is based af.
He gets that worshipping dead 20th century fuckers is nonsesne.
He gets how much the left is just shitty idpol.
Oh and btw,trump's tax plan is better than bernie's .
Yes. We should totally encourage all third worlderes to try make it to Europe on a floating door then reward them with a free house for making it.
By that logic you could call him a proto-communist if his actions were to lead to a revolution.
Again, his neo-liberal agenda wasn't my main point. I was mainly referring to the normalization through his rhetoric. Obviously if he'd just be a neo-liberal I wouldn't call him proto-fascist.
We already knew this.
Holla Forums here.
Please don't stop.
It makes you look batshit insane, tinfoil and delusional. Driving more normies away from you.
Continue just the way you are,
That's rich coming from a guy that frequently visits a board that deals with cultural Marxism and the Jewish question.
Don't forget drawing pentagrams on maps, getting butthurt over video games journalism and constantly yammering on about Nazi masturbation fantasy.
I don't understand the left's obsession with Žižek. He's my countryman and indeed does make some good points, but yeah I come to Holla Forums I get the impression like he is some rockstar.
Is he really that big?
i visited /yourboard/ three times since oct.16
there I warned you about the clinton foundation, soros and kla, I also told you Trump will win.
Then I visited yesterday because berkeley, and today.
Let's not let idiots derail another thread, guys. Let's stay on topic.
We already fucking knew this. It's those retarded liberals straight out of reddit flooding the board that don't get it.
He's basically one of the only loud and heard voices honest enough to actually speak up against left wing impotence.
And he's funny.
In America, we don't have many intelligent philosophers(whether it be left or right). He's also very memeable, charismatic & eccentric.
Yes & he's hilarious.
To be fair to Trump, he has done, more than anyone expected and most certainly his predecessors, to fulfill his promises. A lot of his policies are ironically very pro-working class.
Which ones? The only one I can come up with is maybe TTP.
Thanks, yeah the thing that I appreciate about him, he is himself foremostly. He doesn't pander to anyone right or left.
Also seems to be a monster between the sheets, judging by the women he has dated/married etc
Do you not know about factories that are going to be open in USA insted of abroad?
He made 25.000 new jobs in his first week as president
Now instead of abroad factories exploit the working class in America. Doesn't really make a difference especially not in regards to changing core structures. And what did he do to achieve it? He cut taxes similar to Reagan so now that there's even less money for public projects like schools or health care. You could make the argument that he created jobs but simultaneously he increased the dependency of the worker on big Kapital.
Much better these jobs go to east asia where they get the joy of 16 hour days for a few dollars, meanwhile the america working age man can drag his sorry ass to the dole office and become entirely dependent the state.
You, specifically, are exactly why the modern left is such a joke.
So you want America to compete with bad Chinese working conditions much to the delight of big investors? Trump must really be a hero of the working class! I never realized that the way to go was making the exploitation of the working class easier. Full communism achieved, comrade.
as opposed to what? being unemployed, living on welfare?
You can't be serious.
Jela is quite a hottie, Slavoj seems to be alpha in disguise
The majority of Americans are in employment. Tackling such a comparatively small problem with something like 20% tax cuts for corporations among other tax cuts is completely out of scale. As a result systems like health care or a decent a public school system simply can't be founded. Making such large concessions to Investors wasn't necessary.
His tax plan is a love letter to porky.
He's actually a hopeless romantic suffering from how attractive he is. I remember him saying something like "every girl in Ljubljana I've met, I have tried to marry".
Just read a lot of Hegel, Marx and Lacan like he did. It's the comfiest and most intellectually stimulating way to qts. Need any reading material? Make sure to stop by Ikea for a cheap and easily assembled armchair (I strongly recommend the Pello, or the Holmsel if you crave a more authentic look).
So you want America to compete with bad Chinese living conditions much to the delight of big investors? Trump must really be a hero of the working class! I never realized that the way to go was making the exploitation of the working class easier. Full communism achieved, comrade.
Did you even read the article user?
Od nekdaj lepe so Ljubljanke slovele,al lepše od Urške bilo ni nobene..
Girls from Ljubljana were always known for being beautiful, but there was none more beautiful than Urška… - France Prešeren, Povodni mož, 1830
This is true basically, Ljubljana girls are really beautiful.
I don't know what it is with Slavoj, but all the women he is with are 8-10/10
Pic related second wife, a model
That's not what I said. Not even close. If you tariff China you can make US goods competitive without gutting workers rights. If tariffs aren't working, just outright stop trading with them. You want to feel good about it, do it on humanitarian grounds. I will not trade with exploiters or something.
the fuck user? did you even bother to read the article?
His first wife, Renata Salecl, now aged 55
anyone who says he is a fascist is likely a CTR shill, or CREW as they have now rebranded themselves as
Not the point. user asked for proof that Trump has delivered on his promises. So far he has.
But he wants to make U.S goods competitive by cutting into the living conditions of the workers. He reduced taxes and by that he crippled the largest wealth redistribution mechanism of America. Health care or anything along those lines isn't sustainable anymore.
No, I wanted to know about the pro-working class aspects.
You just made that up tho.
Far too early to make this claim. For all you know he might decide to implement MMT. He has already said 1tn in infrastructure projects. This means jobs and some long overdue spending on the US. It also shows that he isn't overly concerned by debt. Don't tell me your going to flip sides now and start demanding austerity?
Abolish capitalism is neither a strategy, a plan or a solution. Its a slogan at best.
jerbs seems a good start.
Where did I say to abolish capitalism? I only said that add jobs to be done is not pro-working class at all.
what am i reading, what do you think is pro middle class then outside of destroying capitalism? are you a neet?
I have no idea what you're suggesting then? Are you a proponent of UBI? Would you rather Trump had called an end to the 5 day week and put a cap on 30 hours work a week, at $30/hour? What do you want?
I've seen it said a few times on here recently. Communism is a pipe dream. You set this unattainable goal and use it as a vehicle to make other, often unrelated demands in the name of 'progressivism'.
What do you people actually want?
Nothing. I am leveraging a criticism which Trump and his people are not ready to take because they have all been swamped by ideology.
Nice circular logic there. Not gonna bother.
he's a useful idiot, a "blunt instrument" for the right, and the corporate authoritarians pulling the strings are using him to wreck freedom & fuck the poor even harder. so what's the difference? an asshole by any name is an asshole.
You don't have a criticism, you are just droning on and on about jobs opportunities somehow being bad for the working class because they are still being created in a capitalist system and are therefore exploitative. What amazing rhetoric. Sod off.
Not at all. It is impossible because your definition, (stateless, moneyless, classless) is a pipe dream. Hell you people can't even begin to describe how things would look or function under communism, much less how to get there. You use it as the gold standard to distance yourself from previous socialism that happened over the past 150 years. It is intellectual cowardice and idealism.
I still don't know what this criticism is. I've yet to see anything suggesting Trump wants to hurt workers right.
My republican friends like to drone on about opportunities, but it's not a question of opportunity. It's a question of being able to afford it, it's a question of whether or not we even want more jobs, or whether we should delegate those resources, both materials and labour, towards something else. What happens when we allow the spread of deregulated employment conditions? What happens to everyone's job when they are competing against more people for less and less wages?
Current wife, Jela is 30 years his younger
You're still deflecting the criticism whether I am communist or not.
Reuters staff have been told to report on him "like any other authoritarian leader" which says it all.
I didn't make it up. His tax plan is written on his website for literally months.
Let's assume that he'll just try to compensate by borrowing. State debt is ultimately something that the public is held responsible for. What it boils down to is giving Capitalists money and letting the entirety of the public account for it later down the line. Don't get me wrong, austerity isn't the way to go but creating debt just because porky doesn't want to pay isn't either. Besides that, you have to keep in mind that the unemployment rate isn't really that high in America. It's at about 4,9%.
That's an old presentation.
We have to wait to see if Zee Zee still think Trump isn't a fash after the muslim immigration ban.
not a muslim ban
Oh we have a liberal amongst ourselves.
I don't think this is how an economy works.
Even smarter progressives/left-liberals have wised up and know this is a meme: youtube.com
Is a dumb meme. Learn from history: libcom.org
Planning out jobs isn't a part of the economy? Wew, go suck a free market, my dude.
wew, what a retarded post
Whatever his secret is, Slavoj's quite the tomcat
I mean I know you're "communists" but fucking face it, Trump has done more for the working class in one week than obama has in 8 years.
People aren't going to take you seriously, if you are so blinded by your hatred for the guy that you can't see reality.
Nobody here likes O'bama though, Checkers.
The violent reaction you are seeing is a feeling of impotence with, somewhat ironically, a feeling of hope. Trump isn't Hitler, though it is useful for many to feel like he is. Contrary to desensitizing people to fascists, I think that it is underestimated how disillusioned and revolted the left is, including libs.
Trump is a clown, a crass and dull man. He won the presidency, which was a feat not many thought he could do, even on the anti-capitalist left. His winning was a crack in the facade of American institutions. I wouldn't grant American institutions quite the same grave reality as capitalism, but they have been mostly seen as indomitable. Those institutions have been the gateway to power, and their vetting process was a sort of technocratic professionalism, elitism, money, and the ability to recognize all of the social responsibilities of a person of power and to navigate them appropriately. This include how to interact with the media, how to present a speech, the rules of interaction with other people of power etc.
Trump broke all of the rules, was reviled by the sitting power of the institutions, and yet won anyways. It broke the mental spell, and suddenly even the liberals are starting to question the legitimacy of the entire thing. His categorization as a "fascist" is more or less the feeling that somebody wrong has gotten into power because he is not who you'd expect given the playbook. Him ignoring political decorum and upsetting the institutions is destroying their legitimacy, resulting in him being called things like a "dictator" because he is simply breaking social norms. And in a way, it is true.
What is upsetting is that I don't think the newly "radicalized" libs who are out protesting every day, striking and partaking in riots are real allies yet. They just want to restore the institutions right now, I'm pretty sure there isn't a feeling that the country has literally failed. It's still a conservative movement to restore to power the neoliberals who are "rightful", and remove from power the ugly demagogue that is Trump.
It's not about hatred for Trump. It's about talking openly about free market ideology. Job opportunities is not a solution to the declining state of affairs around wage labour.
He hasn't done shit. Shitty lowpay jobs are not helping the working class. Obama's been doing that for years. That BLS report that his legion of idiots keeps throwing around isn't even his doing. The fucking survey was conducted between Jan 9-13. He wasn't even in office. How about letting his policies actually take effect before you start hailing him as the savior.
still market ideology
Girl here It's his intelligence & whit. Make a girl laugh & think at the same time, those panties will drop.
Or they could just be a bit uneducated on the subject or have a hatred of him because he's 1% or that they're just a mainstream liberal. Those seem like much more likely scenarios.
Into the trash I go
He's said on multiple occasions that he's against the minimum wage increase. That in fact he thins it should be lowered. Makes sense he'd choose Puzder for his labor secretary; a man who fights against wage increases & unions.
You just made me laugh. You're closer than you think, user. ;^)
can't argue with that )
That is complete bullshit
My entry into leftist thought was through music
Obama is not responsible for anything related to me or the vast majority of socialists learning out there
But he is.
Authoritarianism is a buzzword. Every US president has been a fascist if you go with this childish definition.