FPS AI

What a load of shit. I can't believe someone went to so much effort years ago to create that story, and someone went ahead and screenshot it. Artificial neural networks? Bots creating data files? Fuck off, and you don't just "forget" about a server either. I think you would have to be some kind of retard to believe that picture.

It's clearly fake, but still a nice pasta.
The game can only use 4GB maximum, and those logs are 8GB in total. Not only would it not be able to load the A.I logs, but not even space for the main game would be available. Also the A.I's main goal is to kill, not sustain a ratio. It would never be a 0:0 ratio no matter how much it "learned", therefore the bots would never stop fighting - unless the server crashed.

its such a shame simple aspects like how items in the enviornment react to bullets isn't a gold standard since FEAR, after a firefight the area actually LOOKED like a firefight happened in it

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Ice cream? God, I love ice cream.

you also forgot that they gravitate towards explosives so the player can shoot those.

in that aliens colonial marines overhaul mod, the author changed the human enemy AI so that they don't share data unless they're vocalizing it, meaning that they only share your location if they actually say the voice line "he's over there" and another enemy is within "earshot". the game still sucks but i thought that was really cool

I actually never played FEAR. I always tell myself that I will play it but I never do. Is the A.I really that god-tier?

It's bretty gud IMO, but I believe people confuse the clone soldiers' dialogue with the actual AI itself. The dialogue makes the clones feel more human than half the game """"""characters"""""" we have nowadays.

It'd be pretty easy to test his theory. I doubt it takes 4 years

It's actually simpler than that. Neural networks suck absolute ass at navigating spaces and remembering to go check on power ups on one hand but become pretty much aimbot equivalent very quickly on the other hand. All they would do is run around aimlessly and pick up powerups that by chance showed up in their proximity, and plink at everything in their sight, dying to enemy fire as quickly as they themselves kill. Think target practice bot that can also fire back and put a bullet between your eyes from 1000 yards.

I agree with your post but go back to cuckchan.

I liked the atmosphere, and there were fun moments, but to be honest, it could have been couple of hours shorter

Wha? The enemies have infinite ammo and spam grenades worse than a server full of demomen. They only seem intelligent until you put them to task, then they're no different from the COD aimbots.

More like since they deleted every tactic that didn't work, they ended up with no strategies at all to take down the enemies without getting killed.

It's my understanding that the AI itself in FEAR is average, but that the computer frequently verbally responds to the player's actions giving the impression that the AI is much more complex and reactive than it actually is.

The AI used a very basic ruleset to make decisions, with this simple ruleset the bots made very dynamic tactical decisions against the player without any scripting necessary even if what they're doing is pretty stupid when you look under the hood. The other thing is that those scripted animation sequences weren't originally intended to be used that way either but the bot used them for shortcuts. On top of deliberately designing the maps around the AI's quirks and you have a recipe for success.

The voice overs is what gave the appearance that the AI is smarter then it is though, without that people wouldn't have been so quick to believe.

(not a true FPS, but still this needs to be said)
Army of Two:s had some good AI coding. But it didn't really show in the games because most instances had so much scripted AI. Also the area design was mostly focused around the scripted enemies.
AoT was a weird mix since the scripted parts made the actual AI engine look terrible, and thus the full AI parts feel "a bit" unpolished, because the terrain was not designed to work well with the coded "real" AI.
There are some audio only interviews with the AI devs about this - they are really good listen if you want to learn more about how cover shooter AI can be made good.
(Good thread OP. Pic is from RE movie)

more like the entire story is fake you fucking newfag
doesn't change the fact that it's creepy and fun to read

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Fuckoff, I'm fucking sick of underage nigger hipsters trying to fit in

Reminds me of the faggots who don't think Dooms demons fighting each other wasn't totally amazing because Half Life did it 5 years later or that think Half Life is just a run of the mill linear shooter.

Neckbeard beta spic faggot. Do you think Quentin would let you stoop so low?

Halo

Just to add on my earlier post:
Army of Two had a minimal processor impact AI. AI engine only checked the top of three main tables: player position, enemy position, and "time decaying 2-part hit flag", that allowed it to make checks only once in 2 secs. That info was enough to make a good reactive AI and it had near zero effect on the game engine performance.

Play Carnage Heart games, they teach you a lot about programming a simple AI, and how to make groups of AI work together with a minimal information about enemies and allies. CH-games are nothing like actual AI design, but the core concepts are the same: Make effective AI with minimal resources.
(Pic. sometimes AI seems better than expected just by pure random change)

Not really a shooter, depending on how you play but I'd say MGS2

Half-Life 2 has shit AI. HL1 is much better in that regard.

i want to believe

HL2's AI is good, it just never has a chance to actually be utilized because the map design is horrible.

any time i see AIs fighting non-scripted it's cool as fuck, i'll watch stalkers and bandits fight in STALKER and when i was kid i would watch the covenant fight the flood through a sniper scope in halo 1 to see who would win

HL2's AI is a massively expanded version of HL1's AI. Literally the foundations of the HL2 AI is the same thing that HL1's AI does through it's rigid scripted sequences.

Exact opposite actually, Monolith had a standing order about not hard-scripting AI actions as much as possible. There's a paper on how they developed a new system of goal-oriented AI shit for the game.

They did design the levels to have lots of paths though, that's why fags who claim F.E.A.R. had bad level design are incorrect (though it did have bland level design).

However on the subject of hardcored AI this user and this user
are correct: HL1's smart 'AI' is almost all scripted actions called out with voices, very little of it is natural or differs if you re-do the fight. HL2 improved it massively but Valve dumbed down the map design/general gameplay so much with repeat playtesting by retards that it really isn't noticeable in the default game. Play a good map with the AI's difficulty turned up and you'll see the difference.

If you want to see how much bad level design can constrain otherwise great AI compare F.E.A.R. 1 and F.E.A.R. 2, on paper the second game actually has slightly more advanced AI but in practice the vast majority of the game takes place in what are essentially corridors.

In russia Dota 2, CS:GO and MMOs are pinnacle of gaming, not an argument.

Easy.

That's funny considering Ruskies made HoMM 3 their bitch while many engloland faggots never even heard of it.
Not an argument.

I believe you're confusing enemy design with AI design.

Overwatch soldiers in HL2 have objectively better AI compared to the human troops in HL1. They'll utilize cover more effectively, throw grenades in a less suicidal manner, attempt to flank where the map allows, and communicate your position to each other.

However this fails to shine because Overwatch troops are often put in maps that don't let them use their AI advantages, and are really fucking SLOW. The human soldiers in HL1 sprint around at ridiculous speeds that are never matched by the jogging Combine, making them much harder to hit and keep track of. Realistically the only weapons early on that take them down fast are the shotgun and magnum, the former has to be used up close where their SMGs can do the most damage. Compare this to the pulse rifle and longer-ranged HL2 shotgun, both of which you obtain upon first meeting the Overwatch infantry.

Funnily enough the soldiers in HL1 are actually more fragile than the ones in HL2, but appear tankier since they scurry around so quickly. If the Combine actually bothered to train their men to sprint you can bet their AI would seem far more in-depth.

I want to say Perfect Dark's multiplayer bots. There was a fuck ton of different types to choose from.

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I call bullshit on all this.

Half-Life 1 & 2 are the only games I keep playing nowadays. Obviously, not the original games themselves but mods.

There are no improvements of AI in HL2. There are custom scripts and other stuff that makes soldiers smarter and all that but the vanilla game doesn't have it. HL1's grunts on the other hand may not be really that smart but they're at least challenging. They will hunt you like a bitch until you're dead.

I agree that HL2's soldiers use cover better and don't throw grenades under their feet but nonetheless they poses no challenge. The only exception from that rule are the shotgunners. All soldiers just want to play with you but shotgunners want to straight murder you and take a dump on your dead body.

I wouldn't say that level design is shit. It's fun. The ammo and health placement is fucking garbage on the other hand. After playing those games for more than a decade I started noticing that I have to manually make the game challenging by not taking the ammo and the health packs. It's especially an issue in HL2 with these shitty lazy supply boxes that always keep you 100% of everything thanks to magic of programming.

Overall, HL2 was always way weaker game than HL1. You can ask basically anyone how often do they play HL2 and how often do they play HL1. The only good things about HL2 are its setting, the physics and the graphics (in comparison to HL1). Everything else is either the same or a straight downgrade.

So they have inferior AI but are more difficult to fight? That's exactly what I said before with the differences in speed and weapon selection making them seem far tougher than any Overwatch soldier.

The AI of Half Life is inferior to that of the sequel, even if the gameplay wasn't to your liking.

Also:

I get what's going on here, you're confusing the hard limit of their damage and HP with the intelligence of the AI Gordon is really fucking buff in raw stats making the Combine look weak in comparison. No amount of AI tweaking will overcome that, the rebels also have a massive buff giving them a huge advantage.

That's actually because of the way the Combine's AI was built because of the short range of a shotgun Combine shotgunners are always more aggressive.

What exactly has HL2 ai done that makes it come even close to something like FEAR?
I honestly don't remember anything aside from the scripted scene with the trash cans.

FEAR's AI is just a finite state machine, the Combine's AI is basically everything the marines in HL1 did as a scripted sequence made into an actual AI. There are glaring weaknesses in it of course basically the Combine are outdoor AI put into tight rooms and corridors and are slow, weak stats, and have a hard limit on actions they can take as a squad. And they need to be part of a squad because that's where all their coding is based, when the leader is dead they stop being part of a squad and default to retards.

Scratch that part about the squad leader, Combine don't have squad leaders but if they're controlled through scripted sequences it breaks the squad up.

Halo.

Here's a better question:

What shooters have AI that's fits specific niches that encourage the player to think in certain ways? Which shooters have enemies which have enemies in a type of hierarchy that relies on the level design to force the player to learn new game play concepts and to provide interesting and fun challenges?

This is all I can think of. The circlejerking of AI is pathetic and is just another excuse for developers to avoid making competent designs. The idea that games need a simulation at a foundation is a flawed one that only reveals the holes in the simulation. Games need to rely on function with predictable inputs, predictable results, and have the mechanics act as reliable tools with which you interact with the game world.

The chase for good AI has led the industry astray and is a futile one.

I haven't read a bigger pile of shit in months. First of all, focus on AI is incredibly low in modern games, which is why the rare games that excel in this field stand out so much. Developers certainly don't "chase it", because a good AI is hard to make, when an average idiot playing cod campaigns is perfectly satisfied with fighting lemmings.

Second, advanced AI is something that is desired in many FPS games because it provides challenge. Formulaic and simple AI is good for speedruns and tournaments, but it gets boring and predictable fast. Predictable enemies are bad enemies. They cease to pose logistical challenge after a very short time, and encounters with them become very samey.

Meanwhile, advanced AI both has the ability to be transformed into the specialized enemies that you want, and to simulate a decently intelligent opponent who can throw you for a spin unless you think fast and act smart.

Tl;DR the reality is opposite of what you assume it to be, and shame on you for being an AI luddite.

you clearly haven't been engaging with the latest in western games in the past 10 years.

here's a hint: it starts beyond call of duty.

theoretically, yes. in reality, this has never been the case.

is your only experience with serious sam?

Far Cry 2 had pretty good ai.
Enjoy getting run the fuck over.

You're the AI luddite here, the best AI that people have a fondness for in the business isn't even smart it's just finite state machines, some simple goal orientation, and in some extreme cases a simple accounting logic algorithm. Literally "move to", "play animation", and "play sound" states carefully crafted together to give the best experience. Even the Arkham series is just a finite state machine.

Some of the AI's of enemies that are written off as bad or mediocre are technical marvels like Halo's AI, but they don't produce signifcantly good results. Then if you leave FPS and go into stuff like say strategy games, the best Ai like GalCiv's 2 and 3 the AI's game is basically described by experienced players as "okay" since it is always the same and always plays well but never does anything erratic or unpredictable making it bland.

It says right there in my post that Valve nerfed the AI into the ground (and buffed the player, scattered health packs everywhere etc etc) because they aimed a game at the lowest common denominator. HL1 barely has any tactical AI for the human enemies at all.

That scene is hillarious. Machine-pistols with infinite ammo and 2 incompetents that can't hit shit.

L M A O my fam

I had fun with FC2 but it had absolutely dog shot AI

The Source Engine implements the following AI software for Left 4 Dead NPCs and TF2/CS:GO Bots
developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/NextBot
You can also spawn a test NextBot NPC in Gmod, it's supposed to be self path finding or some shit

Only if you play on the hardest difficulty. Lower difficulties "dumbs down" the AI. The only thing I dislike about the AI is when they throw nades they are either extremely accurate or laughably retarded. SOmetimes they will drop a nade dead on your ass or they will try and throw it into a window resulting in them killing themselves or a squad mate.

You neglect to mention the fact that the standard Half-Life 9mmar grunts have their helmet, which does provide protection from most bullet-based weapons, with the only exception I can think of off the top of my head being the .357 magnum.

You might want to look into how the AI of Descent works. Even in 1995 we had bots with different behaviors, being capable of dodging player shots, and unpredictable roaming behavior. In Descent 2 the AI was upgraded even further to allow bots to lead their shots, meaning you had to mix up your dodging game.

You don't know about bots and grenades unless you played Insurgency coop mode.
Bots can literally put a nade in your ass from across the map.

I wish I didn't know about Insurgency coop AI

it's not out of the range of possibilities
it's just kind of unlikely that they would waste time and effort to make bots able to learn in that day and age. well they wouldn't do it today either, but that's beside the point

then what does that make the enemies in Doom

user
do you want to play coop…?

Sure. Anytime.

SWAT 4 was pretty good.

I swear I was shouting at that one suspect to put his hands up so that I could ask another officer to arrest him.
The faggot did put his hands up
and suddenly brought out his gun and proceeded to rape my entire squad.

Swat was pretty nice but there were a lot of glitches and the AI was often unreasonablly stubborn. Also enemies can draw and shoot you faster than you can react because the game does not actually animations for them drawing so you would just die.

post steam

steamcommunity.com/id/tehonlynoob/

rip, the dream is dead

But , user, I can deal with lag in COOP. Unless you don't like burgers. In which case, I understand.

(OP)
The problem is that HL2 A.I. is too fucking slow, as if it's dumbed down to be easier for players to fight. They take too long to react to anything, they don't move around enough, they don't work as a squad enough, and they don't have enough accuracy (should be identical to the player).

As this guy says, HL1 has technically inferior A.I. but they're much harder to fight because they're simply faster and more effective as enemies. If HL2 soldiers had the reflexes and aggressiveness of these enemies combined with covering fire and basically working as a squad with maximum aggressiveness when they have an advantage over the player (i.e. rushing him from multiple angles if they hear him reloading), they would be truly fearsome. Instead, their A.I. is just barely passable.

Yet it's not the same for the reasons I listed above, obviously there's a huge difference between the two if you even played both games. It's technically superior, but in actual gameplay the HL2 A.I. is blatantly inferior because it's easier to fight, while advanced A.I. strives to give the opposite effect.

Also this, the map design rarely gives the A.I. any opportunities. to do anything they're capable of aside from shooting at the player while standing still. It doesn't make much sense either since Ravenholm was basically designed around the enemies there with the traps, yet every other level has basically no consideration for A.I., a.k.a. the most major part of gameplay in each level. If maps were designed around giving the A.I. decent opportunities and the A.I. was improved as I listed above, no A.I. would compare to it even in 2017.

It's a mix of both.
I basically only play on these servers so if you want just hop in sometime and see if you like it.

185.20.136.60:27015
185.26.49.71:27015
185.26.49.186:27015

FEAR's Replica dialogue is also really fucking cool.
Has any other game voiced a shitload of dialogue for their enemies? Only one that comes to mind is FEAR and Half Life.

Payday 2 has around 14-20 mins of dialogue for cops that you rarely actually hear

HL2 has the best in my opinion, it's so detailed for no real reason. They even did research to ensure all police codes were codes in reality, most relate to the California penal system.

Underhell.

Shit is not easy, just look at free AI made by modders, early Half Life 2 bots were basically instant killing your or missing every shot depending on what weapon they used.

I'd imagine making enemies more accurate is the easiest thing you can do with regards to making A.I.

Are you talking about the leak?

Nah, I mean there were bot projects for Half Life 2's multiplayer. Talking about 2007 or something like that. Back then several people tried to make AI for Half Life 's multiplayer and a shitload of them were total trash. Like some where not able to walk around the map properly and would just stay still. Other's were basically cheating and instant killed you as soon as you came across them. I also remember bots not being able to hit shit.

I assume coding good AI is simply not a easy thing to do. It's not any different in other genres, in rts for example they all cheat. I can't think of a single rts game with decent AI.

That movie is great, it's just pure grade A B-movie cheese. I enjoyed the movie night and regret not saving all the webms.

Outside of A-life, STALKER AI isn't really that amazing is it?

Well, they do try to corner player, get behind him, throw grenades if its hard to shoot the player, surround him. With small additional tweaks in gamedata they can actually heal each other and use melee, stay out of line of sight of the player behind cover.
Getting into crowded urban environment with 10 soldiers can be proven difficult.

a-life doesn't work half the time, half the games vanilla features are disabled, and half the features that are implemented don't really work.

It's the definition of good on paper.

Killzone 2 and 3 have pretty good AI, never played Shadow Fall though.

Vanilla AI is only decent, really. Mods can give the AI a bit more freedom and reimplement A-Life to some extent. Playing CoC I've had stalkers crouchwalk behind me in total silence and put a bullet in my brain.

Did you play the same game as everyone else? The AI would stare at the fucking wall while I shot them they were terrible in terms of intelligence nor did they ever pose a threat to me

Not saying HL2 has menacing A.I., but that's is just straight up bullshit. That would literally never happen unless something was over your crosshair, which is not possible if you're firing a weapon.

What mods?

Oh boy that was my most beloved feature. I forgot what implemented it.

I know of the mod called "AI additions", which is made for all three stalker games.
ap-pro.ru/load/teni_chernobylja/mody/ai_additions_2_0/8-1-0-2177
Page is in russian, but mod should work in english version as well, it won't change any ingame text.

Is it compatible with CoC tho?

I'm pretty sure CoC has most of the ai additions implemented but i've never seen any NPCs carrying dead bodies except in Radiophobia.

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They don't seem to move bodies at all in CoC. It's a shame since it's a feature that has been around since SoC

(checked)
That boar was jewish.

Don't mind either way, but I loved putting 5 dead bodies in a bonfire while my fellow loners sit around them and play music.

It was intentionally given extra attention because it highlights what the AI is doing to the player. They really wanted people to know it was thinking.

I mean that's basically F.E.A.R. the Sourcemod.

It's generally fairly good if you get a mod that tweaks shit. STALKER's AI is particularly fun to stealth against if you take things slowly because they won't instantly forget where you are but can be flanked if you use a suppressor (they'll suppress the fuck out of where you were and all). The one thing that prevents most people enjoying that is the quickload bug where loading a quicksave means you equip your weapons and make a ton of noise so the AI detect you.

Probably something CoP disabled.

hitman contracts
those civilians and guards knew who i was somehow

Sounds a lot like bored US Marines.

Borderlands has a lot of dialogue for each enemy type.